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Re: Poser texture problem [Re: TheThinker] #88776
09/07/06 16:16
09/07/06 16:16
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 94
Sunbury Victoria, AU
Shaque Offline OP
Junior Member
Shaque  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 94
Sunbury Victoria, AU
I understand the Poser EULA, but surely I'm allowed to use the bone structure animations. I have no intention of using a direct Poser model. If it's not to be used for anything, what's the use of the program? To make naked figures purely to perv at? Hardly.

On another note, I'm still trying to find a way to use 3DS Max to export a UV map from a model that is just coloured. I have got a free app called UV Mapper which exports a black & white wireframe UV map at any size. It supports OBJ in and BMP out only, but thats fine, I can work with that.

I'm giving up on Poser figures and beginning with 3DS Character Studio 4.2, as I can make a good character with as little as 150 polys. Although, I have a slight issue with MAX2MDL, saying that it has "incorrect texture" or something. Nevermind... I can export 3DS or OBJ, I have enough tools to work with both.

As for Blender, I use to have an older version of that years ago and I hated it. Much like Milkshape. I have yet another freebie 3D app called 3D Canvas which is similar to Blender, but way simpler to use. I'm going to try playing with all these ideas for now.

Meanwhile, in 3DGS... I'm slowly learning some scripting and particle generation, except for my player character. It walks and runs at a good speed now, but the animation from other camera angles shows it going way too fast. I'll find out how to fix this eventually, but I better slow down with all this info I'm cramming or I will burn out.

Thanks again all, for your input.


Knowledge is a right, wisdom is a choice.
Re: Poser texture problem [Re: Shaque] #88777
09/07/06 16:32
09/07/06 16:32
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Which version of A6 Pro do you have? The latest version can load 3ds files even with several meshes and more than one texture without problems. But that does not count for older ones.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Poser texture problem [Re: Machinery_Frank] #88778
09/07/06 16:43
09/07/06 16:43
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 523
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Paul_L_Ming Offline
User
Paul_L_Ming  Offline
User

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 523
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Hiya.

The animations you make in Poser can be used...just not the actual mesh itself. As Matt mentioned, simply output your .bvh file then import that into a 3D program that lets you use that kind of motion capture file.

PS:"To make naked figures purely to perv at? Hardly." Actually, yes, that is Posers primary purpose. If you don't believe me take a gander at Renderosity and DAZ3D. DAZ is the company that now owns Poser; DAZ's primary source of income is selling "props" to Poser folks so that they can slap some textures on a poser doll, pose it, hit render, and then delude themselves into thinking they are 'full fledged 3d artists'. *shrug* Read their forums sometime to see where the mentality of most "Poser fans" is.


^_^

"We've got a blind date with destiny...and it looks like she's ordered the lobster."

-- The Shoveler

A7 Commercial (on Windows 7, 64-bit)
Re: Poser texture problem [Re: Paul_L_Ming] #88779
09/07/06 16:54
09/07/06 16:54
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 94
Sunbury Victoria, AU
Shaque Offline OP
Junior Member
Shaque  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 94
Sunbury Victoria, AU
Yes, I've seen places like that. It's why I stated the "perv" motif, as all I seem to find when I search for Poser stuff is virtually light CG Porn. The only reason I'm using it is because I've got it and I require a quick fix for character generation. Seems there are too many anomolies in Poser for it to output models to be used outside of itself. IMO, it's good for rendering images or CG cutscenes, even though the EULA states it's the same as using the mesh. What a jip...

I have been using the BVH motion in Max. I'm not using the meshes. Besides, they are ugly and cumbersome. I would rather make my own, as it is much more fun and I learn a lot more about modelling that way.


Knowledge is a right, wisdom is a choice.
Importing models from Poser into 3DGS: a solution [Re: Shaque] #88780
01/07/07 19:45
01/07/07 19:45
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
N
ngisiger Offline
Newbie
ngisiger  Offline
Newbie
N

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Greetings all!


This message deals with importing *vertex* animations from Poser into MED, and therefore into 3DGS.


If you're like me, you kinda like Poser: simpler and less expensive than 3dmax, it allows you to import a character mesh, fit a skeleton onto it, and make beautiful animations of it. You can then export the result in either .3ds or .obj format. Since MED also accepts these very formats, Poser and MED should be enough for the most basic video game character needs.

The problem is that, as I found out, and as several people here on the forum also did before me, when you export in .3ds format from Poser, the UV mapping of the exported mesh gets all screwy and the result is awful to look at (although the animations are fine).

After looking for all kinds of ways around this problem, I finally stumbled on a solution which seems to work (at least for the versions of Poser and 3DGS and models I am using).

The central idea is to first export the mesh of the model in *.obj* format. If you then import it in MED, you find out that somehow the UV mapping is fine. Then export the subsequent frames in *.3ds* format, and import them into MED. That's it! Of course, it would be simpler if MED would allow us to import frames in .obj format (we would be very grateful to Conitec), but it is not the case for the time being. So I guess this solution is as good as any until something better comes along.


For future reference for newbies, so that they do not waste as much time as I did on this issue, I am putting all the details of how to go from zero to a fully Poser animated character in MED in the text below. This is sort of a short tutorial. I am hoping that it is not too long for the forum.


Notes:

1. This procedure only works for *vertex* animations, not *bones* animation. (see 3DGS manual for definitions). Poser does allow you to fit a skeleton onto a character but I have no idea on how to export it with the mesh. In my view, the whole point of using Poser is to use the bones in it to animate characters and then, when the animations look great, to just export them and play the animations using a script.

2. I am using Poser 5, Poser 2 low polygon skeletons (which are detailed enough for most game applications) and MED 6.814 Pro. I also have bought the "Secrets of Figure Creation wih Poser 5" book by BL Render which I strongly recommend. There are also tutorials from the makers of Poser on the web page at
www.e-frontier.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

COMPLETE PROCEDURE: from an idea to an animated character in MED.

Step 1: Making the mesh

1.1 Construct the mesh (shape) of the character using a model design program (e.g. wings 3d)

1.2 Construct the UV mapping for the character using a UV wrapper program (e.g. Ultimate Unwrap). Export the skin of the character (i.e. an image in either .bmp, .pcx or .tga format) and fill it using a paint program (e.g. Photoshop). Then import the skin back into the UV mapping program and fit it onto the character.

1.3 Export the model in .obj or .3ds format.


Result of Step 1: you should now have an .obj or .3ds file representing the character, together with a separate image which contains its skin.



Step 2: Going through Poser

2.1 Launch Poser. Import the character .obj or .3ds file above (File -> Import -> 3D Studio ... or Wavefront OBJ...).

2.2 Poser should prompt you for the file you wish to use as skin. You might have to fiddle a bit with the display options and the material room to get things looking nice, and fitting the skin onto the model (look in the Poser Help section and the tutorials on the Poser web page).

2.3 Then fit your model with a skeleton. This will depend on the type of characters you are building. For humans, you can use as I do the skeleton for low polygon human models which come with Poser. This lets you take advantage of nice things such as the walk designer, inverse kinematics , etc. Look in the Poser manual for hints and very elementary tutorials on this subject (e.g. Goldy the robot).

2.4 Then comes the hard work. First, we have to select which vertices go with which bone. Poser has a nice friendly graphic interface for that. Look on the Poser web page for tutorials on how to do this. Second, using the Joint Editor, specify how the different vertices should follow the bones they are attached to when the skeleton bends. This process is very well explained in the tutorial which comes with the book "Secrets of Figure Creation with Poser 5". Once you're finished, you should have a character which reacts in a realistic way when you bend its skeleton (instead of the “chewing gum bar character” you started with).

2.5 Animate the character using the Poser interface in the Pose room. This is the part I am still working on. Basically, what you are doing is producing frames of animations (numbered from 1 to whatever value) with each frame representing a pose of your model.


Take a breather and prepare for exporting the model outside of MED (at this point you might want to create a directory which will contain all the files we are about to create).

2.6 First, export the mesh as a .obj file: File -> Export -> Wavefront OBJ... . An "Export Range" window appears with the "single frame" button checked. Leave it as it is: it means we are first going to export the mesh of the model. So click on "OK".

2.7 A "Hierarchy Selection" window appears. It shows all the bones in the model. The only thing we should be concerned about is that the "Ground" checkbox (second line, just below "Universe") has not been checked. Click on "OK".

2.8 A third window appears requesting a name for the .obj file we are about to create. Let's choose "initial" for instance. Click on "Save".

2.9 A small window appears with the "Include figure names in polygon groups" and "Weld body part seams" boxes checked. I'm not sure what this all means, so I just click on "OK". You should now have an .obj file which contains the mesh of the model.

Now for the animation frames (= what makes the model move).

2.10 Click on File -> Export -> 3D Studio ..., this time.

2.11 The same "Export Range" window as before appears. However, this time we check the "Multi frame export" checkbox. This means that we will export the frames of the character animation specified by the Start Frame and End Frame numbers specified on the window (which you can change according to your needs). Click on "OK".

2.12 We get again the "Hierarchy Selection" window, and we do exactly as in 2.7. Click on "OK".

2.13 In the window requesting a name for our .3ds files, type for instance "animations". Click on "Save".

2.14 A new "Export object groups for each body part?" window appears. If we click on "yes", it is my understanding that the model will be cut in pieces following its different bones. It is not what I want, so I click on "No".

If you now check in the folder where you saved the .3ds file, you should find a whole new bunch of files: animations_0.3ds, animations_1.3ds, animations_2.3ds, ... . Each of these files contains a single frame of the animation of your character.


Result of Step 2: a folder with a file initial.obj containing the character mesh, and a whole series of animations_[...].3ds files containing the animations. Also, keep the image of the character skin handy.



Step 3: Importing into MED

Now for the big step.

3.1 Launch MED.

3.2 Import the mesh: File -> Import -> Wavefront Obj File. Select the file initial.obj which we produced earlier and click on "Open".

3.3 A small window appears with the "Replace Existing Model" option checked. Since we want to create a new model, not add it to another model already open in MED, we leave it selected and click on "OK". Our mesh appears in the 4 windows of MED. If you're like me, it will be rotated clockwise by 90 degrees. Resist the urge to change its orientation and just proceed to the next step (things will straighten out by themselves later on).

3.4 Import the animations: File -> Import -> Import Append Frames from 3ds. In the window that appears, highlight with the mouse all the animations_[...].3ds files, and click on "Open". If you're like me, the 4 windows of MED will go black as the model seems to disappear. My take on it is that MED is not happy for having to mix .obj files with .3ds files. Take courage and save the model in mdl7 format anyway: click on "Save".

3.5 Now, simply open the file you just saved. If you're like me (I'm always feeling suspicious about what I do not completely understand), the model will have reappeared in all 4 windows, and it is correctly oriented. Click on the "animate" and the play buttons at the bottom of the window, and you should see your model going through its animations in the 3D window.

3.6 Now, let's check the UV mapping. Go in File -> Skin Editor. The “skin editor” window opens up and displays the UV mapping. If you're like me, it will be correct (and not be all corrupted and full of criss-cross patterns as during .3ds file importation). There are two problems with it though. The first is that, in my case, it has been flipped upside-down. That is no big deal though because we can edit the character skin image with a paint program, flip it, and save it under a different name. So we do that now.

3.7 The second problem is that if you go in File -> Import of the “skin editor” window, the option "Skin image" is not available. So we have to import the skin another way. We proceed as follows.

Close the "Skin Editor" window and go into Edit -> Manage Skins. A small window opens up. In my case, two skins numbered 0 (Preview) and 1 (labeled something else) are listed in the bottom-left corner of the window.

3.8 First, we remove the "preview" skin which we do not need: select the "preview" skin from the list, and click on "delete skin" to remove it from the model and the list. Click on “OK” to the query “Are you sure you want to delete this material?”.

3.9 Now, we add the character's skin. Select the only skin remaining in the list, and click on "Skin Settings". In the "Edit Material" window that appears, uncheck the "Material Setup" checkbox, check the "Texture" checkbox down below instead, and then press the "Texture File" button under it. This stretches downward a small menu which does allow us to import a skin image.

In this menu, click on the "..." button next to "Texture File:". This brings about a menu which allows to pick the file of the character's skin. Select the file containing the skin which you have flipped vertically before. Click on "Open". Voila! You should now see the model properly skinned in the 3d window of MED.

Close all the windows, and save the model, which should now be ready to include in your games.


Final result: A fully skinned model in mdl format with the desired vertex animations created in Poser.



This method has worked for me so far. I would appreciate feedback from other people to check how robust this method really is.

And also please join me in asking Conitec to add to MED an animation frame import in .obj format.

Good luck to you all!


Thomas

Re: Importing models from Poser into 3DGS: a solution [Re: ngisiger] #88781
03/22/07 14:08
03/22/07 14:08
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
Michael_McCrickard Offline
Member
Michael_McCrickard  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
I just wanted to thank Thomas for figuring this out and taking time to write such a detailed post about it. I can confirm that this method also works for me and report that I've now had success taking existing .MDL files into Poser and back with textures intact.

In order to make this work, I've had to modify some of Thomas' steps and add a few more, but the ability to use the Poser tools to animate these low-poly figures is well worth it to me. I'll just list my basic steps here and if anybody's interested, just reply to the post and I can supply more details, and I'll make the MED plug-in that I've written to accelerate the last stage of the process available.

1) Save the .MDL as a MDL5 file in MED, if it's not already MDL5.

2) Use the latest version of Milkshape (1.8.0) to import the MDL file. Re-pose the arms so that they are extended straight out from both sides of the body, like the default Poser poses.

3) Export the model from Milkshape as a .3DS file.

4) Import the .3DS file into Poser (Poser 5 is what I'm using). The figure should be textured correctly. In the Setup room, add a lo-res skeleton and fit it to your figure. Do the grouping of the triangles to the bones.

5) Animate to your hearts content and then do a multi-frame export as 3DS files.

6) In MED, do an Import Append Mesh from 3DS to bring in your first frame, then an Import Append Frames from 3DS to bring in the rest of the frames. The import appears not to work, but this is because the imported mesh and frame are tiny.

7) This is where the plugin comes in -- run my increaseSize plug-in and it will scale the contents of each frame to be about 130 times bigger. Zoom the camera back and you'll see your model. Save as MDL7 and you are good to go.

I'm trying to make the plug-in more friendly and more useful (like allowing the user the supply the scale factor instead of having it hard-coded at 130, etc.) but I don't know MFC and the plug-in is doing what I need at the moment, so I may not get to that for awhile. As I said, just respond if you want the plug-in or e-mail me michaelmccrickard@hotmail.com.

Thanks again to Thomas for all his efforts that made it possible for me to figure this out!

Re: Importing models from Poser into 3DGS: a solution [Re: Michael_McCrickard] #88782
03/23/07 20:15
03/23/07 20:15
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
Michael_McCrickard Offline
Member
Michael_McCrickard  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
I realize now, I need to amend steps 5) and 6) (they should follow ngisiger's method)

5) Export your first frame out of poser as an .OBJ file and then the rest of the frames as .3DS files.

6) Import the .OBJ file first and then re-mport the skin using the Manage Skins feature. Then import the animations frame using Append Frames as .3DS.

Re: Importing models from Poser into 3DGS: a solution [Re: Michael_McCrickard] #88783
03/23/07 23:47
03/23/07 23:47
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 572
Toronto
MadMark Offline
User
MadMark  Offline
User

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 572
Toronto
Never thought about exporting my low poly models into Poser. Good stuff. I'm going to have to try that! It will sure speed up the animating of my T-Rex, now that it is under 3000 polys. How do I get my grubby mitts on your MED plug-in, Michael? Scaling all those frames manually would be a pain.

Cheers!
Mark


People who live in glass houses shouldn't vacuum naked.
Re: Importing models from Poser into 3DGS: a solution [Re: MadMark] #88784
03/24/07 14:26
03/24/07 14:26
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
Michael_McCrickard Offline
Member
Michael_McCrickard  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 208
Resizing DLL for Med

Visit the web page above for the link to the plug-in and instructions. As I mentioned, I hope to make it more user-friendly and useful. Right now, it just does this one thing! Happy resizing!

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