Oh no you di-int, GS.

This kind of thing is endemic of the unprofessionalism that goes on here. Any idiot can see that if someone receives goods, then afterwards repeatedly says they will pay, but keeps putting the payment off (oh it's in the mail), then suddenly announces months later that they don't want to pay anymore, is as honest as the president of the united states (which is, dishonest).

Especially if the contractor agrees to provide support and debugging after compensation. If a client agrees to hire someone to work, and the contractor delivers, even if the client is dissatisfied, it is a matter of integrity and professionalism to at least discuss this in depth and negotiate compensation. GS would only be justified in whining here if he had paid tD, and then was dissatisfied with the support and subsequent bugfixes he said he'd perform upon payment.

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GS out

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Running out the door without paying. Unbelievable.

I think testDummy deserves better. Unfortunately there is a hard lesson to learn here, never, ever take work on spec without insisting for something up front. For the record, testDummy is a brilliant programmer (he will disagree), and with his generous help, taking time to code debug and rework the code base for my prototype, and he delivered with verve and panache-- and took home a big garish trophy award from the Dusmania indy games show. I'm stunned with the quality of his work. I'd pay him in spades, if he'd ever let me. I am sure this unpleasant experience has left him wary of certain 'developers' here on the forum who have big plans for themselves but little integrity when it comes to compensating contractors.

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The moderator can feel free to close and lock this thread....

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You accuse tD of whining to mommy, but look who wants the thread closed now.

jetmonkey, honestly this is an argument that can be looked at both sides, i dont see why you have to be offensive about it, id be pissed if i was testdummy, but if you look you can see the points of view from both sides, and i think if i remember one of my last conversations with him, gs planned to pay testdummy, just to get this whole mess cleared up, im not sure tho so dont quote me.

no im saying after this post, as far as i heard, gs decided wether the code was quality enough or not that he'd pay him, and its not like he used the analogical "5 out of 6" pieces, we decided not to even use the previous code, and it was 3 peoples code, not just testdummys.

The fact that gs even -sent- you his code to look at, which you say did work at least to a degree, says something right there, that's a pizza slice, even if you or he got an idea from the most basic, abstract underlying algorithm behind it. But that is trivial in the black and white world of simply breaking a deal. There is no gray area here.

GS complains he was unhappy with the quality, but he did not start the bug-report, feedback, bug-fix cycle that is inherent in the development process. Any developer knows this cycle is critical, and that the first draft of anything always has bugs. GS didn't pay up and hence didn't get his bug-fix cycle.

He broke his deal, weaseled his way out of paying, after stringing him along for months. Whether or not he used it is irrelevant, though if he is dishonest enough to break the deal, I wouldn't be surprised if the code is in there anyway.

I have to re-iterate this. From my personal experience, testDummy is not only an excellent programmer, he works hard and communicates well. He takes his work seriously. He delivers fast and surprisingly effective results. He's quick to fix bugs, make tweaks and all the while being friendly about it. With my project, he persisted, patiently, with my tweaks and little adjustments until I was satisfied. Not only that, I had a two week deadline for Dusmania when tD started-- and he worked night and day to get it delivered on-time. He stayed in constant touch with me the whole time. And it was on time. That's professionalism. Professionalism is also keeping your wordand paying your subcontractors.

To this day I am stunned with the results-- and some professional coder friends of mine who work for Rockstar and Doublefine couldn't believe this was done in 3DGS by just one guy in two manic weeks. Even his first drafts worked great.

Not only has gs cheated testDummy out of countless hours, he also slanders him here in the forum. There is no gray area here. tD is owed his money and at least an apology. Until that happens, gs' word is chaff upon the wind.

I agree, stick to the agreements made, otherwise how can we know you can be trusted? You say your image doesn't matter, well infact it matters an awful lot. I don't work with people I do not trust or may be in a position to rip me off sooner or later. It's called 'common sense' ..

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I have been using Gstudio for many years and have never cheated or dealt with anyone unjustly. I am not worried if people shy away from working with me, thats their choice.

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And a good choice perhaps. j/k

Cheers

I'm not going to take sides in this argument because I haven't seen the code in question nor have I seen the contract so I can't tell if the code is what it should be.

I'll just say this:
I was asked to do a small programming job for someone who had previously hired TD. I got to see the code and it looked reasonable at first so I accepted the job. When I started coding I noticed tons of quirks in the code making it nearly impossible to extend it without knowing the -entire, stretched out, smeared all over the place- codebase. TD is obviously and intelligent person but the code was so weird that I got the impression this was done on purpose to make sure only he is able to maintain the code.

I quit the job pretty quickly and luckily this was possible because it was more or less 'charity work' (I would get a very small compensation at the end but there was no contract or anything..)

Again, I can't judge about this particular case.

Um... well, I think you're talking about my code base, which I once discussed expanding with you after TD was unavailable for a while. While I'd really rather not go into it, I'll touch on this because I do not want someone else to take the blame for my poor quality framework.

When I first handed TD my codebase, it was something I hacked and mutilated from a once elegant piece of work from Gnometech. I was lucky that testDummy was bold enough to venture into my mess, Indiana Jones-like, added some great new features, and made it work, all within a stressful two weeks. The end product turned a lot of heads and took home a prize from the Dusmania indy games show. In two weeks he worked very hard, with deliberation, great skills of deduction, reverse engineering, patience and flexibility. If nothing else, this speaks even higher of his skill.

But the unsavory details of my poor coding skills really have nothing to do with the simple logic in this broken deal:

1) GS made a deal.
2) TD worked and delivered the code as agreed.
3) The debug and bug-fix cycle was agreed to begin upon reciept of payment
4) GS didn't pay him as they agreed
5) *KEY: Because gamesaint never paid, he didn't get the bug-fix cycle as they agreed on
6) GS repeatedly told TD he would pay him months after that..
7) GS never paid up
8) GS refuses to pay, on the ground that there are bugs.
9) Because gamesaint never paid, didn't initiate the bug-fix and tweak cycle as agreed, GS has no grounds to complain.

It's all about points 3-5.

If that's the case, I take it all back. Sorry about blaming you, testdummy.