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Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Damocles] #90992
09/28/06 07:47
09/28/06 07:47
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
ulf Offline
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ulf  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
player will not even notice there are shadows at all if the gameplay is good

Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: ulf] #90993
09/28/06 08:07
09/28/06 08:07
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline OP
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Damocles  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,305
I think game grafix need to be smooth and consistent.
It is not so important how high the resolution of texture is, or if a building is blocky.
But It should not stick out of the rest of the scene!
Same with the Treeshadows, if everything casts shadows,
it would stick out if they are missing an trees. But If they are there, and not fully correct, the player will
not notice while concentrating on the gameplay.
For me the grafical part is not the main element.
It only serves to create a certain athmosphere, together with the sound, music, story
and gameplay.

Even If you have an ugly Artwork: if this is consistantly ugly, it wont harras the player
as he gets used to it, and concentrate on the gameplay.

Same with shaders,
I dont want to use them unless really required (like the terrainshader, that I need).
After a while the shader will not add much to the gameplay,
but it will reduce it a lot : lowering the Framerate.
Now some people here implement shaders at any cost, if the framerate drop they either
state hilarious minnimum requirements for the game,
or reduce the content in the gameworld (models, Blocks) to increase the framerate it.
Why not kick out the shader in this case?

Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Damocles] #90994
09/28/06 08:10
09/28/06 08:10
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
F
FBL Offline
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FBL  Offline
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F

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
Quote:



Even If you have an ugly Artwork: if this is consistantly ugly, it wont harras the player
as he gets used to it, and concentrate on the gameplay.




Yes, that's idneed true.
I've had it that people said my textures are crap (well not that directly) but they loved it because everything fits together (and this is pretty difficult imho).

Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: FBL] #90995
09/28/06 08:14
09/28/06 08:14
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline OP
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Damocles  Offline OP
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Consistant crap (like in a horse-barn) looks less disturbing than
a pit of crap on the front of your new Mercedes.

Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Damocles] #90996
09/28/06 08:16
09/28/06 08:16
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Quote:

Now some people here implement shaders at any cost, if the frame-rate drop they either
state hilarious minimum requirements for the game,
or reduce the content in the game-world (models, Blocks) to increase the frame-rate it.
Why not kick out the shader in this case?




Why not offer both? The user could decide whether to switch them on and off. At first most users switch everything on, play the game and when it tends to be slow they switch certain things off. So it seems that graphics are important at the beginning of game-play and less important when you got into the game.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Machinery_Frank] #90997
09/28/06 08:25
09/28/06 08:25
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline OP
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Damocles  Offline OP
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True, thats ok for certain effect shaders.
They are a nice optional addition.

I am talking more about shaders that dominate a certain scene.
Take the bloom for example. When using bloom, you need to change
the brigness and lightning of the textures in your game to make it all fit together.
Now if the player switches off the bloom, it will look really ugly and inconsistant,
as the scene is too dark and has a strange contrast.
So I would have to eveluate, what brings the bloom to enhance the athmosphere, at what costs (FPS).

Other is the usage of dynamic shadow casting shaders.
They are used even if the gameplay does not require a dynamcical shadow world
in the end. And they really drain performance. (thief 3 as a bad example)
Now if the player needs to turn it off, the game will look really ugly, as
the whole shadow part is gone, that gave the scene the needed contrast.

Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Damocles] #90998
09/28/06 08:44
09/28/06 08:44
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Absolutely. I agree with you. Dynamic shadows are not always needed.

Concerning the Bloom / contrast problem: Maybe it could be solved with lighting. When you switch on the bloom then you could darken the whole scene via sun light properties and so it could be a cheap solution, not artistically perfect but it could work.

Modern games mostly have the ability to switch on Bloom or HDR. So it can be solved.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Machinery_Frank] #90999
09/28/06 13:33
09/28/06 13:33
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline OP
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Damocles  Offline OP
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Here the trees with a shadow
I ignodes the "leaves", or
it would generate strange dark polygonshadows.

I just noticed another big bug in my renderer.
That places the shadows in a wrong angle on higher terrain ...
If I ignore it, the terrain gets selfshadowing, that looks
not the way I want it. (the terrainresolution is too small for this
to work good)




Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Damocles] #91000
09/28/06 13:34
09/28/06 13:34
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
That looks great. Ignoring the leaves is no problem.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Wasteland Scene [Re: Machinery_Frank] #91001
09/28/06 13:52
09/28/06 13:52
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Yeah, I second that. I only noticed because you said so.

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

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