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Re: Depth of field [Re: EX Citer] #94659
10/16/06 16:34
10/16/06 16:34
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,604
Deutschland
ChrisB Offline OP
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Well there are 163k Polys in this small scene and everything gets rendered 4 times.


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Re: Depth of field [Re: ChrisB] #94660
10/16/06 17:54
10/16/06 17:54
Joined: Jun 2005
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broozar Offline
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broozar  Offline
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fine, but if it doesn't even render faster than 20 fps on my 2.6 GHz athlon with GF 6800, there's still room for.. improvement. but i have to admit that it's a nice gimmick, especially scrolling through the focus. impressive! but i would instantly turn it off... makes me dizzy somehow, feels like i haven't cleaned my glasses for a long time or looking cross-eyed

Re: Depth of field [Re: ChrisB] #94661
10/16/06 17:55
10/16/06 17:55
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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Quote:

I can make it smoother but this will slowdown everything.




Too bad. As for the locked focus error, I can't explain it that too well, however, look at these images and compare them to your results. Especially look at the shrubs at the right side and how they change 'blur-wise'. I think you can best describe the effect as 'depth smearing', and that's what your effect lacks ..

Photographs:




---


Don't get me wrong, you're getting great results already! It doesn't trully feel like depth of field though, but maybe that's because I'm just a photograph freak,

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Depth of field [Re: PHeMoX] #94662
10/16/06 19:20
10/16/06 19:20
Joined: Jan 2003
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Damocles Offline
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General question: (not as critic of the shaders, rather on the concept)
is a dephtblurr not unrealistic ?

The human Eye can adapt for all dephts, so there is no natural blurr
of depht.
And the computer does not know, if the human focusses on a near or far object.

Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94663
10/16/06 19:29
10/16/06 19:29
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
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PHeMoX Offline
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Quote:

And the computer does not know, if the human focusses on a near or far object.




Ahh!! This is exactly what I mean, because we try to emulate the effect, we use a fixed focus, assuming we are focussing on that point, the human eye can adapt it constantly and will. Focus on something nearer and the entire depth of field will change, focus on something further away and again it'll all change bigtime. That's what I meant with 'fixed focus'. The 3 photographs explain how different the effect can be while focussing on 1 and the same point using different focal distances. In real depth of field, these focal distances are not fixed. Focus on something else and it'll change as a whole, not just adding more blur to an object further away, just totally dynamic.

@Damocles: I agree, it's not realistic, it's a lens effect and the depth of field our eyes do have, have a different kind of blur, almost not noticable and very very extremely smooth.

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Depth of field [Re: PHeMoX] #94664
10/16/06 19:32
10/16/06 19:32
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
EX Citer Offline
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EX Citer  Offline
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Tiefenunschärfe ist natürlich sinnvoll:
1.) Der Prodzent kann damit den Blick des Benutzers kontrollieren. Schließlich sieht der Spieler durch die Augen einen Characters IM Spiel.
2.) Außerdem erhöht es die Athmosphere. Hmmmm... 2. und 1. sind ziemlich das gleiche...
3.) Drittens haben die meisten Spieler einen zu kleinen Bildschirm, den man braucht damit die natürliche Unschärfe sich auswirken kann. Hat halt nich jeder ne Kinoleinwand Zuhause.
4.) Ist der Bildschirm eine flache Fläche wodurch es garnicht zu Tiefenunschärfe kommen kann egal wie sehr man sich anstrengt, mal abgesehen von einer großen flachen Fläche wie zB ne Kinoleinwand. Das ist aber ziemlich das Gleiche wie drittens.
5.) Wie man gut an den Fotos sieht, ist viel einfacher zu betrachten (weniger anstrengend) und es sieht realistischer aus. Auf Fotos ohne Tiefenunschärfe sieht man nämlich den Hintergrund auch scharf, obwohl man ihn in Natur nicht scharf sehen würde.


:L
Re: Depth of field [Re: EX Citer] #94665
10/16/06 19:44
10/16/06 19:44
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
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Damocles  Offline
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It works for video sequencies, and other staged scenes, where
a human cameraman/designer controlls an acted scene,
But in an interactive enviroment, it forces the player to focus on
a certain depth, wich is unnatural.

For the really far distance it can smooth out the backround, but
this should be done for things that are 500 meters away.

Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94666
10/16/06 19:56
10/16/06 19:56
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
EX Citer Offline
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EX Citer  Offline
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Berlin
Unsinn. Für einen 3D shooter zum Beispiel, würde ich immer ein Trace gerade aus (wie das Visier) machen, und dann den Focus auf das Scharf stellen was das Visier trifft, bis max 20meter oder so. Das heißt das was Anvisiert wird ist scharf. Außerdem haben viele Spiele lock on functionen, wodurch auch klar ist was Scharf sein muss und was nicht. Dann gibts noch Spiele wo man mit dem Mauszeiger durch die Welt gehen kann, und daran klar machen kann was Scharf und was UNscharf sein muss (point & klick games).


:L
Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94667
10/16/06 20:00
10/16/06 20:00
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,604
Deutschland
ChrisB Offline OP
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ChrisB  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,604
Deutschland
Myst4 had a depth-of-field effect. The focus was always on the object under your mouse. After a few minutes you didn't noticed it anymore but it add a lots of realism into the scene and it was easier to concentrate on the objects.


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Re: Depth of field [Re: EX Citer] #94668
10/16/06 20:00
10/16/06 20:00
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
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Damocles  Offline
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Das heisst man muss immer brav alles in die mitte vom Screen drehen um es scharf zu sehen...
Das ist nicht unbedingt angenehm für den Spieler...nur damit der entwickler ja
seine Tiefenunschärfe mit in die Featuresliste reinschreiben kann...

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