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Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94669
10/16/06 20:06
10/16/06 20:06
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
EX Citer Offline
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EX Citer  Offline
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Posts: 2,541
Berlin
Freut mich das du es verstanden hast. Wenn was nahe dran ist, ist es auch größer und damit länger im Focus. Was weiter weg ist bewegt sich optisch langsamer und ist damit länger im Focus. Und wenn mal ein Widersacher durch das Visier läuft kann der Focus auch mal ein paar halbe Sekunden länger auf der Distanz des Widersachers bleiben. Ich seh da echt kein Problem. Wenn kurz danach ein Widersacher weiterweg durch Visier läuft wird der natürlich Focusiert.


:L
Re: Depth of field [Re: ChrisB] #94670
10/16/06 20:30
10/16/06 20:30
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Quote:

Myst4 had a depth-of-field effect. The focus was always on the object under your mouse. After a few minutes you didn't noticed it anymore but it add a lots of realism into the scene and it was easier to concentrate on the objects.




Yes, but that depth of field focus point is hardly noticable in the first place, because it's extremely smooth in transition to the more blurry surrounding.

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Re: Depth of field [Re: PHeMoX] #94671
10/16/06 20:46
10/16/06 20:46
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
Inestical Offline
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Inestical  Offline
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Posts: 3,815
Finland
I just red about how we cannot know what we are looking?

just this, the thing that is middle, or near middle, also nearest, or the most middle in the camera is always/mostly the center of viewing. This means, adding dof to represntate the "center" object. just a suggestion though..

Last edited by Inestical; 10/16/06 20:47.

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Re: Depth of field [Re: EX Citer] #94672
10/17/06 06:59
10/17/06 06:59
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,534
hamburg
Samb Offline
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Samb  Offline
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Posts: 1,534
hamburg
also nur in zwischensequenzen ist das ändern des focus sinnvoll.
ansonsten sollte man,wenn überhaupt,nur den hintergrund verschwommen anzeigen lassen.
alle nintendo spiele hatten tiefenunschärfe (die sich auch per action replay verstärken und vermindern ließen)

wind waker:

mario kart:


mario sunshine:


vorteil: man kann LOD geschickter verstecken

zelda twilight princess (gleiche engine wie wind waker) verwendet starke tiefenunschärfe für zwischensequenzen, damit der fokus auf den figuren bleibt.


ansonsten gibts halt nur sehr schwachen tiefenunschärfe effekt, wie in den anderen spielen halt:


so viel kann man dazu sagen:
1. tiefenunschärfe für ego shooter ist schwachsinn und unnütz. sowas will wirklich kein spieler
2. bei third person spielen ist es ok. weil da ja eine art "kamera" existiert. daher sind ja auch linsenreflexionen etc. so beliebt
3. es frisst perfomance recht viel perfomance. sollte daher niemals zum "spielinhalt" werden und abschaltbar sein (eben wie bloom und andere effekte

Re: Depth of field [Re: Samb] #94673
10/17/06 07:27
10/17/06 07:27
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,801
Richmond B.C., Canada
Captain_Kiyaku Offline

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Posts: 4,801
Richmond B.C., Canada
In Kingdom Hearts II haben die es zb nur bei Gesprächen eingesetzt wo man den character fixiert vor der camera sah (der gerade am sprechen ist). Wirkt ziemlich gut in dem moment, auch wenn das Spiel keine realistische Grafik hat (Anime Stil)


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Re: Depth of field [Re: Captain_Kiyaku] #94674
10/17/06 07:42
10/17/06 07:42
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
The effect from ChrisB is incredibly slow on my ATI Radeon 9500 (a shader 2 card).

I believe it could run much faster. I played "Beyond Good and Evil" years ago and they already did depth of field in all cut scenes. This looks very intense.
The cut scenes of F.E.A.R. use this technique as well. I think this is a common style to focus on the story elements (e.g. the characters) while displaying them non-interactively.


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Re: Depth of field [Re: Machinery_Frank] #94675
10/17/06 16:49
10/17/06 16:49
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
Pappenheimer Offline
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Pappenheimer  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
I think one could use depth of field in shooters too. Even there, there are conventions of "focussing", means pointing at things as usable or movable, normaly by giving them a white or reddish light. Why shouldn't we use depth of field for this?

Re: Depth of field [Re: Pappenheimer] #94676
10/17/06 16:54
10/17/06 16:54
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
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Damocles  Offline
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Posts: 4,305
Depth of field is reducing the optical information on the screen / view,
and why reduce the feedback for the player in a fast egoshooter?
Just to write the feature on the package?

A filmmaker, staging a large battle would try to avoid this depthblurr,
if the scene should show the whole battle, and not just the protagonist
and antagonist in closecombat.

This blur should at least not accur in the range where the player interact with
the enviorment. If it is just for some backroundstuff, it is ok.
But it should not blurr close items and structures then,
and the focus-distance of the blurr should be constant.



Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94677
10/17/06 17:15
10/17/06 17:15
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
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EX Citer  Offline
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Berlin
Say what you want damocles. With depth of field your eyes get more relaxed and it looks better. It´s absolute nonsense to show everything sharp. IF the player wants to see something sharp he can focus it and thats more interesting as seeing it sharp in the first second. It´s realy great to do it that way, because games ARE interactive. Movies and picture ARE NOT!

Why you don´t understand it? It´s not like you don´t see anything anymore in the not sharp area. You see something moving and if your itnerested you aim on it to get it sharp. Its totally simple and absolutely like in reality.


:L
Re: Depth of field [Re: Damocles] #94678
10/17/06 17:25
10/17/06 17:25
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
Pappenheimer Offline
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Pappenheimer  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
Why do I play first person shooters? Because of the atmosphere!

Here a more moderate example, with focussing the thing in the middle, instead of a cross hair (an unnatural convention as well):




Talking of natural versus unnatural means forgetting the high level of artificial conventions, the same problem as with making films.
Why isn't it easy to make films? ...because it is highly artificial what seams sooo natural!

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