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Re: Does chance really exist?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#96640
11/03/06 19:25
11/03/06 19:25
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
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well i got up to about the beginning of the 3rd page, so forgive me if i missed something, but heres my take on it, if you look at this purely scientific (putting aside the thought of a soul or other supernatural force) then there is absolutely no chance.
with all the same amount of force and exactly all the same variables, dice will land in exactly the same way, everyone wants to say that they have control over there decisions, this is completely untrue.
you feel you have control over yourself with perception but in all honesty every decision you make is based on a connection in your brain of some type that took a decision and made it based on what your expirience has been and what your current situation is. you feel that as a decision, and if it all happend exactly the same way again with exactly the same past and present, then you will do exactly the same.
As far as people earlier talking about a parallel universe, not possible.... not that I dont believe there could be a univarse out there with all of that planets scoped subjects being exactly the same, but think about this, if you have to travel to get there, then do it have exactly the same position as our universe?
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Re: Does chance really exist?
[Re: lostclimate]
#96641
11/03/06 22:54
11/03/06 22:54
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Quote:
if you look at this purely scientific (putting aside the thought of a soul or other supernatural force) then there is absolutely no chance.
That just doesnt follow. While closed systems may by predictable, open systems like the Universe which may be infite, can not possibly be predictable at all times.
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Re: Does chance really exist?
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#96642
11/05/06 22:18
11/05/06 22:18
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
with all the same amount of force and exactly all the same variables, dice will land in exactly the same way, everyone wants to say that they have control over there decisions, this is completely untrue.
you feel you have control over yourself with perception but in all honesty every decision you make is based on a connection in your brain of some type that took a decision and made it based on what your expirience has been and what your current situation is. you feel that as a decision, and if it all happend exactly the same way again with exactly the same past and present, then you will do exactly the same.
Again .. I simply ask, why? Why would we have to do exactly the same? There's no way of knowing this. Assuming we would is quite unscientific. Like I said before, we can't live through the past twice and find out. However, there's no real reason to assume that we wouldn't be able to decide different in exact the same event, we really are not limited in any way. Besides, 'exact similar events' do not exist in practise. Not with a dice dropped with a controlled force, not within human life, no where. Time, location and a couple of dozens of other factors will never be the same ...
Theorizing about a 'what if' in this case, simply makes very little sense to me.
Cheers
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Re: Does chance really exist?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#96643
11/07/06 04:29
11/07/06 04:29
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
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Bay City, MI
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well we cant assume that because we cant go in the past... BUT, then again we cant assume gravity exists then, because there could be foriegn variables that are at play that we dont know about, but we can pretty much say it does exist because it fits physics as we know it.
as long as we dont know everything then anything can be different then what it seems, but some theorys are worth take that risk since we are about 99.9% were right on it, your decisions are based on connections in the brain. WE THINK, we could be wrong but its assumable.
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