Unconventional Real World Application

Posted By: Anonymous

Unconventional Real World Application - 12/27/01 05:40

Dear Fellow Members:
I am new to this list and have spent the last several days learning about 3DGS and what it can do. Needless to say I am very impressed with what I have seen and read to date. I have not found the information I need in the FAQ's and Forums so I need to ask some questions so that I can proceed with my project.
Several months ago I convieved of the notion of using a game engine as a means of providing a console for the remote monitoring and control of industrial equipment ( as an example consider a dozer or other form of earth mover). My particular application is one for an underground mining environment. The similarity to a gaming environment is remarkeable since each requires
a) navigation through a 3d world ( in this case tunnels)
b) collision detection is required
c) an objective is part of the process ( in this case moving material from one point to another)
d) configuration is required for both setting and entities
etc.

Questions are as follows.
1) Can AutoCad Dxf files of underground tunnel arrangements be used as a base to create the 3D levels? ( in reality an entire underground complex could be modeled around a dozen tunnel primatives, straight sections, 90's Y's etc. From a visual perspective an underground setting is very simple.
2) Is it possible to simulate a large 3D world equivalent to a 20 level mine with each level corresponding to approximately 500 meters by 500 meters on a 1 meter grid?
3)How is a real world mapped to a virtual world in terms of physical dimmension?
4)Can the generation of 3D levels be automated using a batch processing method?
5)Can animated behaviour and entity interactions be captured and used to drive external interface code via scripts?
6) Are there plans for OpenGL capabilities for 3DGS
7) Can entities be created and destroyed via scripts which are driven from external interface code?
8) Can streaming video be incorporated into the gaming environment?
9) In a multi-player mode, can different players control different entities?
10) Are there plans to port 3DGS to Linux?

I am interested in developing a simple proof of concept application to see what the limitations are and would appreciate any and all comments from both novice and expert.

Oh and if any of you are interested in participating I would be most interested in hearing from you.

Thanks in advance Charlie...

Posted By: James Snydstrup

Re: Unconventional Real World Application - 12/27/01 07:00

Charles:

Let me try to generalize some answers for you.

If you want to use 3DGS as an operator interface for an actual mining operation then I would say no that is not possible. The link from getting data from PLC's, DCS or some other setup is just not there. Normally PLC or DCS data is passed to an operator interface via some communications protocol such as modbus to get the data to an IO server. Once the IO server has the data then OPC / DDE or some other method is used to get the data to the HMI (human machine interface). 3DGS has no such support for DDE or OPC. That is just one of many features that would separate a true HMI like Cimplicity or Wonderware and 3DGS.

If you want to simulate a mining operation then, of course, that is quite possible with 3DGS. You won't be able to directly import .dxf files to use as maps but you will be able to build maps useing WED. You also have the option of useing 3DS Max and an exporter plugin.

Yes, you could build large 3D mines with 3DGS.

The scaleing is arbitrary but typically 1 quant = 1 inch. It is possible to make maps up to 500000 quants square before you run into a Z buffer problem with most video cards. Of course you always have the option of breaking a very large map up into several smaller ones.

I suppose automatic generation of levels is possible if you construct your levels useing .wmb prefab tunnel parts. WDL can certainly handle that since you have the ability to create or remove entities from the world on the fly.

Open GL..I don't think so. Not really a problem since all new versions of Windows support DirectX. You'll be out of luck with Unix/Linux/Mac though.

Entities can be created and destroyed via WDL or the SDK. The SDK will allow for the creation of .dll's but all things are possible with WDL. I think anything else 'external' (outside of WDL or the SDK) would be difficult to get access to. As I pointed out in the first paragraph there really isn't a good way to transfer data to and from 3DGS and other applications. Though with a C++ guru and the SDK there may be something you can work out. I've considered the possibility of useing the SDK to allow for the transfer of data to and from and ODBC datasource but at this moment I don't have the time work on that. Oh, before I forget, you do have the option of reading and writeing to flat ascii files. So if you can get your data into a delimited text file then A5 can easily handle extracting the data from the file.

Streaming video..no, though you can play 'in game' .avi's.

Multiuser mode, yes it is possible to control different entities.

3DGS to Linux...I don't think so.

Posted By: Doug

Re: Unconventional Real World Application - 12/27/01 09:41

Interesting task, I don't think anybody has used our engine to do something so 'physical'. The idea intrigues me and scares me at the same time. 3DGameStudio is designed as a simulation engine, so it doesn't really have a "fail-safe" mode. The idea of a multi-ton 'dozer being controlled by the same software used for First Person Shooters may scare the miners.

James' has done a very good job in answering most of your questions (thank you for saving me all that typing James ), but I disagree with him on his assessment of controlling external equipment with 3DGS. I worked on a contract about a year ago for a lighting design company that used our engine as an interface between a model of a building and the lighting of that building. It used a DMX controller as the input and the output could be sent to other controllers or DMX enabled lights. This is not built into the engine itself, but is fairly trivial to program using the SDK. I'm not sure how the mining equipment in question operates, but I imagine a similar interface can be developed.

The interface and the video streaming could both be added with an SDK (either one you develop or you can contract somebody to build one for you). In the past we have also offered to make changes to the engine itself if you can help pay for development costs (you would need to discuss this with JCL to find out how expensive and feasible this would be), so an OpenGL/Linux port may be possible if you have the budget for it.

Good luck with your decision.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Unconventional Real World Application - 12/27/01 22:22

Doug,

Actually I was subcontracted to do the work with the DMX Dongle dll. It has been used to control the lighting patterns for the building. Even more interesting is the fact that the program is run from Vegas and the actual building is located in Texas and I programmed it in Japan (talk about worldwide). We are still working on some of the issues in this program but its coming along nicely. (Now if I could only get them to pay up )

Bill

Posted By: Doug

Re: Unconventional Real World Application - 12/28/01 04:57

quote:
Originally posted by wbwillson:
...Even more interesting is the fact that the program is run from Vegas and the actual building is located in Texas and I programmed it in Japan (talk about worldwide). ...

Using a program from Germany, hardware from the UK, and a custom plugin from San Diego.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Unconventional Real World Application - 12/28/01 05:35

A CPU from Malaysia and I think the mailman was Portuguese.
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