A New Way of Rendering?

Posted By: mmx

A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 04:07

While BSP tree rendering system is great, I wonder if 3d Gamestudio's engine could harness the massive 3D graphics power of 3ds Max? With this amount of rendering power, 3dGamestudio could become a more versatile tool, allowing developers to utilize the ease of use in 3dgs while at the same time using the power of 3ds Max to render their projects. Possibly, 3dgs could be used in the next cg blockbuster hit! Has Conitec considered licensing the engine from Discreet? What would be the drawbacks of such technology?

-Just a thought. But that would be sweet.

Posted By: blaaaaa

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 04:25

LOL! never laughed so much

3dsm isnt a game engine. you could actually never use 3dsm as game engine. it isnt possible, too much to explain( iam to lazy to write it in english

)

Posted By: Doug

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 05:18

I don't think he was talking about using 3dMax as a game engine.

Posted By: blaaaaa

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 05:42

not? then its a misunderstanding

sorry, my english isnt that good, i must have got something wrong

Posted By: Dan Silverman

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 06:22

If you are talking about "real time rendering" then 3D Studio MAX cannot handle all the geometry AND the code for things like AI, panels, etc in real time. I have scenes that cause MAX to crawl on my PC that run at 70+ FPS in GameStudio because of BSP.

If you are talking about using MAX to render textures as apposed to use GameStudio to render Lightmaps, then you can do that already.

Posted By: mmx

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 06:23

I guess I should clarify:

Could 3dgs use the same type of rendering technology as 3dsm, but optimize it for realtime gaming? Best of both worlds? An engine with extremely detailed graphics with high fps? Is it possible?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 06:32

I think he's talking about the visual quality of A6 rendering. Some have complained that other, more high profile engines delivery higher quality output(color, light, shadow) than A6.

Posted By: mmx

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 06:42

yes yes! that is exactly what I was trying to say! thanks for summing it up in a few words!

Posted By: 3DGP

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/09/04 07:13

Quote:

Some have complained that other, more high profile engines delivery higher quality output( color, light, shadow ) than A6.

True and True and very very True to the last 1

Posted By: Doug

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/10/04 07:11

Quote:

Could 3dgs use the same type of rendering technology as 3dsm, but optimize it for realtime gaming?

Short answer, no.

Posted By: Lutz_Tewes

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/16/04 03:03

Quote:

Short answer, no.

Longer answer:
Yes, but it depends on your computer.
(the holodeck-computer on starship enterprise can handle it easily, but is difficult to buy)

Posted By: BHoltzman

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/16/04 10:47

Real time rendering is already available on todays graphics workstations. I know XSI will allow you to do this. I'm not familiar enough with other modeling/rendering software enough to know which other software will allow for real time rendering.

You can have fully rendered scenes in real time using techniques such as Refraction, reflection, global illumination, etc... It's all very impressive and gives an incredible time advantage to artists trying to get the scene just right.

There is also a custom display host in XSI that should allow you to hook the display engine into XSI so that you could get immediate feedback on how your models look in the game engine. BSP calculations will not be real time. So it's not going to be perfect until Octree is available.

EDIT: After I posted this, I thought I would try to find the resources I had seen that told me about the realtime rendering through XSI. I thought I had seen them on the NVIDIA web site. But I wasn't able to find it again. I did find an article about tight integration of XSI with the Nvidia graphics workstation cards.

Posted By: sonic2nd

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/23/04 11:44

I see. So you want 3d Gamestudio to produce graphics like the real time ingame screenshot of this game?

Yes, that is correct! That is realtime in-game graphics. Unfortunately, that screenshot is only a digital screenshot directly from the development kit(on PC.) On Xbox, unfortunately the graphics will naturally degrade(I believe, it is an anti aliasing issue.)
==================
Once conitec produces a decent manual for their own product, I'm sure you'll be seeing alot of games with superb graphical quality. Until then...

Posted By: Dan Silverman

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/23/04 14:53

Sonic2nd,

I believe you are correct with your signature ... you ARE the Michael Jordon of SPAM.

Quote:

Once conitec produces a decent manual for their own product, I'm sure you'll be seeing alot of games with superb graphical quality.

What does a manual have to do with "superb graphical quaility"? Will a better manual increase the graphical capabilities of the engine itself? Will a better manual increase the artistic skill of the person using the engine? I am sorry, but I just don't get this comment.

Posted By: ello

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/23/04 20:31

In Antwort auf:

I see. So you want 3d Gamestudio to produce graphics like the real time ingame screenshot of this game?

Yes, that is correct! That is realtime in-game graphics. Unfortunately, that screenshot is only a digital screenshot directly from the development kit(on PC.) On Xbox, unfortunately the graphics will naturally degrade(I believe, it is an anti aliasing issue.)
==================
Once conitec produces a decent manual for their own product, I'm sure you'll be seeing alot of games with superb graphical quality. Until then...

yet possible

Posted By: sonic2nd

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/23/04 23:57

Quote:

Sonic2nd,

I believe you are correct with your signature ... you ARE the Michael Jordon of SPAM.

Quote:

Once conitec produces a decent manual for their own product, I'm sure you'll be seeing alot of games with superb graphical quality.

What does a manual have to do with "superb graphical quaility"? Will a better manual increase the graphical capabilities of the engine itself? Will a better manual increase the artistic skill of the person using the engine? I am sorry, but I just don't get this comment.

Guess what Dan Silverman. I updated my 3d Gamestudio to 6.22 from version 6.02. Wow I must say that the tutorial actual does speak of shaders... oh my... shading bump mapping... you name it. The manual covers it all. I... I don't know what to say. I was criticizing the manual(I think version 6.02) and yet now at 6.22, the manual explains almost all the features necessary... I think I should leave now...
================
P.S Conitec should've produced a better manual for version 6.0.

Posted By: Dan Silverman

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/24/04 04:39

Even so, oh master of spam, what does a bad manual (for v6.2) have to do with the "graphical quality" of the engine?

Posted By: danthaman015

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/24/04 06:16

Quote:

Once conitec produces a decent manual for their own product, I'm sure you'll be seeing alot of games with superb graphical quality.

I agree. I think that if Conitec **FINALLY** releases a *decent* manual, 3DGamestudio will be better than the Unreal engine, and a ton of secret development features will become unlocked...Level geometry will automatically have bumpmaps rendered on to it, and all of your game models will be automatically constructed, skinned, and thrown into the game with the right behaviors assigned to it.

I can see it now...

Posted By: oliver2s

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/24/04 06:21

I see nothing on the screen that you can't do with A6. It is not the way of the rendering which make this cool screenshot, it is the skill of the graphic artist of this game.

Posted By: er_willy

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 07/24/04 19:35

yes, this image is only a hard textures working, you can archived this in gamestudio.

about Real time rendering, well when maya also can (hardware render buffer), yes...
but your need a very expensive computer and you not can create a big levels when a lot of textures modeles as in a game engine, and some channel not can render.

the games engines it is a 50% of texture work, 30% of triks and a 20% of technology.

when 6.22 you can use saders, but for now that kind of a beta public.

final in my opinion with better manuals you can create better grafics and more optimizate, there is a lot of difference among what you can really create with gamestudio and what you see in the manuals and tutoriales, make a superb level you need many c-scrip triks, noy only textures skill.

bya bya

ps: conitec could make a mini contest to create a superb level

Posted By: Matan_Golan_A6

Re: A New Way of Rendering? - 08/01/04 06:47

i think that there is someting right that sonic's says, the the manual of 3DGS isnt covers the all engine abliltis. not only in graphic section,
lets say Multi player... can some one find me where in the manual there is full tutorail about multi-player... Nope cause its havent there is just explantion about the functions and like saying break you head with that
thats why we dont have a desent multiplayer games and the most BIG janer today is multi player.
same thing about shaders i take a look trying to understad what they want from me but i filed doing it, its all about function,no examples at all, ok mabye one about this raptile skin but its not very understandable...
i think conitec need to share us more about the engine this is the way to achive 100% of the engine and i dont care if the 2.3 update will take a month to arrive our computers if it worth that i will be hapier to manage all engine abliltis....

but i dont want you to think that im not like or im just complineing about the engine i like it, its very usefull, but i want to control it fully
those my money that i paid for my engine worth it?

oh and sorry about the english