Shall we keep user ratings?

Mainly for testing the poll feature of the new forum, here's a little poll of whether we should keep some familiar forum features, such as the user ratings.

The forum update has reset all user ratings, and I see from my forum logs that already three users (I won't tell the names here ) are very busy going together through the forums and rating the other users down, after having rated themselves up. I'd like to take this occasion to get rid of the user rating for good - at least this would save our three buddies a lot of time and effort.

If you want please take a minute to fill in the poll. You can also post suggestions about other forum features here.

Oh, and on that occasion: Forum admins can now read PMs, so if you want to talk with your buddies about something that I should not know, better don't use PMs.

I think this is a good idea to remove ratings. Besides that I believe that the rating of a topic should also be removed. Often ratings are not objective or made out of pure fun.

PS: I just rated this topic 5 stars to show you what I mean.

I voted no

The fonts of the ubb_dark stylesheet are way too small. It is not possible to read the text on a 22' monitor without increasing the font sizes in the browser.

I voted no. I'm suspecting one user to be one of the three downrating users and I looked to his rating and I was right. That explains why my rating is that bad. Ratings are senseless anyway.

I gave you (Joozey) 5 stars for this good reply.

But I hope you see the problem here. This time I give him 5 and maybe tomorrow I disagree with him in another topic. Then I am doomed and have to live with it. I cannot rate him every day. And so this is a strange tool.

Let us watch at another scenario:
Maybe I don't like another person and I rate him one star. I could also have told him something insulting then. So rating can be a somewhat hidden way to insult other people. But this is forbidden if you read the forum rules.

I rated a few of my friends 5 stars today. But is this an objective image for the majority of people here? No, I made it out of pure fun but this shows you exactly how useless this tool is.

I think this kind of behaviour itself is a problem; rating someone down because you disagree with him/her. I think that about 60% of my posts are helping others, but I only had 3 stars because I voiced my opinion in some of the more controversial topics here on the forum. Polite debate shouldn't be discouraged I think.

I voted no.

I think it would be a good idea to finally get rid of user ratings.
We should learn the lessons of the past when users were rated down heavily in discussions only because of their opinions.
Also prejudices can arise from the number of stars a user has.

Ah, do we have here the first of the 3 guys? Then I guess I also know the second...

I think the rating feature is childish and not suited for a software forum.

I agree with you all.

Tobias: I don't know if I am one of the three. At least I have no idea or only a guess who the second could be but absolutely no idea about the third.

But I am man enough to tell you honest and straight what I experienced and what I did. This is what I am doing often. I tell about good and bad experiences of mine with this forum, with people, with politics, government or with this technology. Because of that I had a good amount of low ratings. Maybe this is the reason why politicians are not honest to you. They need good ratings

PS: I rated you 5 stars, Tobias, I am in a good mood. I hope we get rid of this soon.

I voted no, mostly because I did not realize there was a rating system. Then I noticed that I have something like 5 stars after my name which means that I must be more useful or cooler than JCL or ventilator or all those other guys who post useful information. So can I go back and change my vote?
Seriously, a voting system that gives me 5 stars when I may have posted 10 times with only marginally useful information is rather silly.

Christian, this is so true. Many users like to give newcomers full rating of 5 stars, just like a welcome gift or to change something in the forums or out of pure fun. But it is meaningless in the end.
Many users only give 1 or 5 stars and nothing in between.

This topic comes up because of a few strange controversal ratings (I even rated "TheExpert" to 5 stars. Some of you might know him as a funny and persistent guy ). And I am happy that this leads to a discussion.

So we all can make the forum better in the future.

Hm, the ratings seem to be bugged anyway. It still says I have 71 rates (I think that was the numebr I already had quite some while ago), but the number of stars does not correspond to the old number...

I rated firoball 5 stars because I noticed he had only 3 stars at his name, while in his profile he had 5, and it says, indeed, that he had 71 votes (well 70 before mine). As soon as I voted his stars turned to 5 again. My votes just count for 70 :D.

I Should have voted 1 star.
*runs away*

I just wish that clicking on a topic would take you to the first NEW message like the old version did.

I agree that the font is too small for the dark scheme

I got people who are totally jealous of my finished works and thus they rate my stars very low.

It's a totally un-fair system.

Let's get rid of it.

Get rid of user rating. People quickly learn who the helpful and/or knowledgable users are.

As noted by many others, the current use of the rating system has been totally arbitrary and useless.

I voted 'no'. For me, it would be better, if 'User rating' was replaced by 'Thanks rating', so when you're making something good, users can rate you up, and 'thanks count' will be displayed at place, where the stars are now.

Yep, scap them for good

Get rid of it! (voted for no too)
Reasons: already mentioned mainly by Frank

But it seems like it was already removed from the system.
At least I do not see any stars anymore

People with bad ratings really are often self to blame and I don't see why people would give anyone a 1 star rating just because they disagree. Kind of immature....

First of all: This topic is finished. Rating is gone now.

But I can tell you what an immature behaviour is: Punishing people with bad ratings and creating a dozen user accounts only for this task

Maybe you did not read this thread so I summarize it a bit: Some users who did very good work and good contributions for the community had rather bad ratings while other with no contributions at all had high ones. The rating was just a tool for punishments (mainly done in Morbius, so with no relation to game development at all).

And the poll tells that most users are happy that it is gone.

You mean that people only are able to add positive points and no negative points? That might work, but there still will be idiots making a dozen accounts just to 'rate themselves'.



True, the rating is gone, but the topic isn't closed... for obvious reasons...



I am happy too that it is gone and I DID read this thread. Users were asked about their opinion and I gave mine. Don't assume things.

Anyways, all I'm saying is that some people really were self to blame for getting negative ratings, regardless of their excellent contributions in the past. I don't say it's right, all I'm saying is that it makes sense in my opinion.



Yes, I totally agree and although it's probably superfluous to say... it wasn't me doing that.

Ok... suggestion: Another theme. I'm used to dark text on light ground.

You can choose such one. There are 2 other themes, one of them is white.

Well user rating has one great advantage, if some user posts real nonsense you just rate him down and immediately feel better . And if you see someone posts nonsense and look at his rating and see you already rated him one star, you know this user tends to post nonsense. So I vote for keeping the user rating.

BTW the poll is still open, so when 26 more users vote in favor of rating I guess we'll get it back...

This is not the meaning of a rating.

You are a moderator. If somebody breaks the rules then you can tell him clear and polite. You can even ban the user.
No need for dubious ratings.

Lol, looks like Frank is afraid of getting his single star back... Why do you care so much about this anyways?

I love the preview feature but really want green guy back (green laugh icon, R.I.P).

@phemox:
yeah, it's a great commuity where it has become habit to bash the most skilled users. you bash frank. matt_aufderheide, the creator of sphere, has been bashed and teased for a greenish sandy beach, he left. DanSilverman returned once, and was kicked out, as if you (not you personally, users who know what i mean may become red at this moment) were more experienced or anything better. Xexes went away, not only because of the engine. i could continue this. there is only one constant: the users who post the most, create the less, have the biggest mouth, stay and keep it going this way.

i had several bad things typed in this box, but decided to delete them, as i am not willing to attack someone personally. i just pity you. you and your lost blinded user and MOD fellas.

Shall we keep user ratings? No.

Why?

Most kids... sorry... most user like Phemox and Spirit down-rate other people because of antipathy (aversion). It has nothing to do with competence or incompetence.

I criticised GS and constituted my opinion. The consequence was one star.
Think about.

You can't judge and compare reallife personalities with online ones Wicht.

It will be far clear noticeable when you tell a strong opinion against something than when you be the 'normal' user staying on the background. People will judge you immediately on obvious behaviour. In a forum, you can rate only once. If they notice you first being negative on things, they will rate on their first judgements, apparantly negative in your case. This is nothing different than in real life, where everyone will do the same.

If they get to know you further, and know what you are capable of, what you can bring to the community/society, they will see other sides of you and can judge you far better. Since you can't vote again on a forum, their opinion is settled even when they actually changed their mind about you.

This is the reason I do not vote for a rating system, but it does not mean people here act childish. It's a human habit.

Joozey... you got it. And this is the problem.

First of all, and the admins can probably check this from ips and so on, it wasn't me rating you guys 1 stars. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if half of those simply were individual people thinking the same things about you two. You say we are 'kids', but for people above the age of what.. 30 or so, you two are behaving extremely immature.

I never rated someone out of antipathy, in fact I barely ever rated anyone.

@Broozar: I NEVER bashed anyone. I was one of the few that always stood up for XexeS, MattAufderheide and a couple of others that left, like Exciter. As for your comment about posting behavior and getting games done, take a nice big look at yourself. I've got a very busy student life, something that demands a lot of my time. Making games is a serious hobby of mine, but it's not something I do for a living. I hardly ever post WIP here for various reasons, in part because of people like Frank...

Oh, I have a good idea for this forum!

How about, whenever there are four or more posts in a row with only Frank, Phemox and so on as authors, we replace all their posts with pictures from "My little pony" unless a moderator decides the posts are friendly, nice and completely free of bashing. Sure, it'd be a shame, because both of you often create amazing posts with great content or generous presents - but god, those other posts...

Man, that idea is awesome. You know, because I'm getting so tired of reading that. I mean, obviously, I wouldn't have to read it, but what if some EXCITING PIECE OF INFORMATION is hidden somewhere in there? So far, it often has, but it was unfortunately buried in personal attacks and comments that were pretty close to being classified as such. I don't know if this is maybe just a lack of skill in the english abilities (my lack of skills, to be exact here), but sometimes, posts seem unnecessarily rude. Sometimes, Phemox has those, sometimes, Frank has - for example, he doesn't even adress Phemox - who he is talking to - but is just making a general comment about him which always comes across as rude to me ("Sorry guys, he just is too stupid to see my point"). (Sorry, Frank. I don't know if you intend that this way, maybe its, as I've said, just my lack of abilities.) Note that I didn't intentionally chose Frank for ane xample, it'd probably be just as easy to find examples like these in PheMoxs (Argh, whatever letters need to be capitalized here) posts - although please understand that I didn't spend the five million billion years that would be necessary to analyze all your posts for this. It's just that some small things like these, where it isn't even clear if it was intended as an attack, spiral out of contral and end in a ugly battle of words, thats more or less super-pointless. And now, you both are always attacking each other, one eagerly awaiting the other to post something somehwere with even the slightest hint of a disagreement. I... doubt that this really happens, but it sometimes seems to me that this is the case.

It always takes two people for things like these to go out of control. Or three, four, five, I suppose but stop interrupting, I'm trying to make a point here. So, no finger pointing. But I suppose, if you think closely about it (maybe only when you're all alone by yourself in a dark room with plenty of time to think) you may agree that sometimes, didn't you use maybe words and phrases a little too agressive to get your point across? Yeah, it's fun and cool to be mean on the internet. But please, not in our beloved forum, which is praised for its great community. And still, we have all those threads ending with people ripping each other apart. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for good, educated, moderated discussions, and I'm not going to stop anyone from voicing their opinion that acknex/torque/ANYTHING is awesome and/or sucks, and often, the discussion actually revolves around this issue, with technical details and experiences thrown around - fantastic! But then, there are those threads that end in those horribly bad battles, so that the pages >20 only hold very little information. Isn't that sad? (rhetorical question, you see)

Let's just bring together happiness, shall we?

You know... back when I was more active here... I don't remember it clearly anymore, its been a while, but back then, whenever I had to make a reply, I'd first have to walk miles to the Conitec tower and hand in my reply, written in blood (no ink avaible). Of course, all this happened barefoot, in the snow. So next time, when you see something you don't agree on, remember those former, simpler times. Would you use your own blood to write a reply, which you'd then have to deliver by walking through the snow? Barefoot? WOULD YOU?!

Thats an amazing analogy, but it leads to lazyness. So use it carefully.


...
Oh, uhm. User Ratings. Right. Err, I think I didn't vote, but I lean more towards "not needed". I always had four stars, so I always was "mr. average". I couldn't join in with those five-star-superstars, and neither with the "one-star-who-cares"-guys (who were the cooler ones, to be honest). And hey, four stars for someone like me? So yeah. I don't mind the ratings, I don't love them to death, either.

Also, I would like the green grin-smiley back (yes, I've seen the thread for this very endeavour).

EDIT: Also, where is "Who's online"? I want to know who reads my posts. AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT.

I like that idea.



Well, I'm not eagerly waiting for anyone to spread lies about me, so no that's probably the result of these silly discussions being this 'present'. I'm sure Frank wouldn't believe me just for the sake of it, but I actually like the guy, at the same time I often pity him too though. It has nothing to do with disagreement, it has everything to do with overreaction. Perhaps on both sides, but I think my comments are usually pretty reasonable.

well we all know why error014 had a good rating. detailed honest posts that can pass on criticism without insulting and even be subjective without thinking he's being objective.

no one ever expected the ratings to be skill based. they were "is this person a wanker (1 star), average (don't vote), or are his/her opinions an asset to the forum (5 stars)?"

* to prevent misinterpretation of my message, i'm not callling low-rated users anything of the sort. you can probably expect that that's the gist of what was running through anyone's mind when they rated someone.

of course i voted no. we don't need ratings.

julz

Error014: This is a great post and I take it seriously. I like your idea very much. I don't like to talk about personal issues in public so much. That is why I tried to settle things down via PM's in the past. Unfortunately Phemox (only as an example) ignored the PM's but replied to them in the public forum. This sometimes was a reason of such strange discussions.

I offered him more than once just to ignore him if he ignores me (via PM and in public posts). He told me that he will not do that, for reasons I don't understand.
So it became worth and worth.

But yes, I agree absolutely, such discussions don't belong here and I am very sorry to spend your and my time for such stupid nonsense. So I will not respond to Phemox in this thread and not in the "Just a test" thread from spirit as a proof that I want to stop this.

Regards,
Frank

I'm going to take your word for not responding to me anymore and I only want to clear one thing up here.



I think sometimes it's better to talk about "personal issues" (I really had no personal problem with you at all) in public when people start to claim all sorts of crazy things or are this close to make personal threats and so on.

Don't forget you were spreading all kinds of lies, not just about me but even about other forum members and perhaps even about yourself.

I couldn't care less for the most part, but I couldn't stand all your crazy claims about how only I was to blame for our "annoying public discussions", that simply wasn't (and isn't) true. Somehow you can't stand people that disagree with you.

Can I stop the kindergarden now?
Let's say: One further word on your personal differences and you will regret it.

@Machinery_Frank : good decision to stop these personal issues. If you and PHeMoX want a flame war: do it via PM... The community has no profit from it!

@PHeMoX : Please don't make personal attacks without proof (better: don't make personal attacks at all!!). These forums are for helping people or to receive help and not for fighting against others.

@both : I really hate it to ban people here (but I WILL do it, if needed...).


So: Please come back to the topic 'Shall we keep user ratings?' or I have to lock that thread (inhibiting all who didn't vote yet...). Think on that!

@PHeMoX : Please don't make personal attacks without proof (better: don't make personal attacks at all!!). These forums are for helping people or to receive help and not for fighting against others.

I never even made a personal attack, I was just stating facts (about mostly the past). If you like we can discuss this through PM instead of messing up these threads. Don't threaten with a ban when there's no reason for it.

I do not want personal issues on this forum. Negative remarks about other users will lead to remorseless banning in the future, no matter if the remarks are justified or not. This means that posts like in the few last pages of this thread would get several users banned. Hope this clears things up. Thread closed.