The Disenfranchised...

I just purchased a Wacom Intuos3 6x8 graphics tablet, and I anxiously await it's arrival sometime this week. I should be here by Thursday or Friday. I also purchased ArtRage 2 which is compatible with the tablet, and it's basically the "poor man's" Project Dogwaffle." I'll eventually get PD Pro 4.1, too but me Grimlock will upgrade to A7 Pro before I do that. I just about have all that I need to begin creating the physical backgrounds and layers for my 2.75D levels.

I've gained an interest in shaders here lately, but I'm more interested in 2.0 only since there is more standardization than with the old 1.x versions. I'm not quite sure how I'd apply these to this 2.75D style, but I'm interested in:

01. A toon shader so that my characters have a certain look about them. I'm not sure if I still want to stick with this look or keep it the way it is without it.

02. A projection shader for cool shadows effects

03. Per pixel lighting and dynamic shadowmapping for an environment with full dynamic shadows and proper cool, Noir lighting effects.

Take a look at this Alan Wake tech demo clip. The interior part with the cool lighting with the fan and ceiling lights is what I'm interested in. There's also an Unreal3 lighting demo (I think it's Unreal3) that showcases the kind of atmospheric lighting effects I'm interested in. I'll post it when I find it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piMrNvdwYRU

I'm also in need of a way to place shadows on either invisible surfaces or none flaged ones (preferably invisible). jcl says it's possible. Here's my request thread and jcl's "how-to" quote from another thread:

http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/741148/

Quote:

- Shadows on invisible models should be possible by using nontransparent models with an FFP effect that renders only into the z buffer, but nothing to the screen buffer. I haven't tried it, though.

Lastly, I'm toying with the idea of throwing out full realtime 3D characters all together and featuring ALL 2D sprite based characters. They would still be based on my 3D characters I've been paying for, of course. I'd have to render out ALOT of different variants of the main character so he will look right under certain lighting conditions. If he's near a dynamic light, then he has to be lit right. If he's not standing near near light, he can just be "normal" with no highlighting. I'd stick with engine ambient methods to take care of his global shading. This kind of technique would be best served for a point and click gameplay style, so LarryLaffer, if you're reading this, you'd better get to work on those enhancements to Intense Pathfinding........or else. LOL. j/k

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised..demo.. - 10/21/03 23:58

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. That's a very dark alley, and the angle changes when you go down it. I'll add a temp light and reupload. I completely understand how you could think something was wrong there. Like I said..it's work in progress(WIP).

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/22/03 15:02

I was checking my daily bandwidth usage just now. Assuming I'm reading it right, it appears that one person(out of around 80-90 new thread views) has downloaded the "demo"(thank you Don Pedro), since I posted it around 24 hours ago. I realize 24 hours isn't that long ago, but only 1 download has me scratching my head, since 9 times out of 10 a download post generates at least some response from the community in a few short hours.

To all who are interested, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at it. See about 5 posts up for information and the link.

Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/22/03 15:13

I think it has more to do with the stealth link you put in.

I had looked earlier, but the demo was no where to be found (silly me I looked at the start of the post). I assumed you had removed the link to do changes or what not. I just found it in the middle of the page, some what hidden.

Take a look at it tomarrow, as the only constructive criticism I can offer right now is it needs more coffee and a comfortable bed in the corner.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/22/03 15:18

Here's a 2-level 3rd person walkthrough for everyone to try out. This is hardcore WIP and nowhere near complete. Anything is a candidate for change, and I'm just after some FEEDBACK, since I'm still fairly early in development. If you are familiar with the series Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Alone in the Dark, or Nocturne, then you will be familiar with this.

It's around 2.28MB and defaults to 1024x768:

http://www.orangebrat.com/thedisenfranchised.zip

Controls: Standard WASD to move and mouse to rotate the player. "W" will move the player forward no matter which direction it faces

To get to level 2, simply walk into the front door on the bottom floor. Also, there is a hallway in the front door corridor and you'll miss it if you walk immediately to the door.

Known issues:

1) Quantization error artifacts - those little, shadowy rectangular boxes are everywhere. JCL is working on something that should eliminate them.

2) Controls - currently it uses standard Resident Evil style controls. Other options are being considered as alternate methods

3) The dark - Yes, it is supposed to be THAT dark. Let me know if it is so dark that you can't see anything. If there is glare on your monitor it makes it harder to see, so the darker your surroundings the better. I will probably give the player a lightsource and/or implement gamma correction for the player to change. Simply adding more to the global ambient value destroys the mood I'm after, and ambience must be handled on a per face basis

Posted By: logaan

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/23/03 22:52

I think it's a bit too dark...
And I don't like the camera...

cya
logaan

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 00:49

Too dark, in general, or just in a few specific locations? There may be a few spots in level 1 where I may punch up the overall brightness a tad, but the goal is to emphasize very bright brights and very dark darks and heavy use of shadows(stencil when they arrive) which ties in with the 40s Noir look. One of the main problems is that not everyone's monitor is set correctly and it can be perfect on one and completely dark on another.

I've mentioned it before, but one of the best examples of this is to watch the Coen Bros. film, "The Man Who Wasn't There" aka "The Barber" in some countries. While this is a modern film, it was an homage to B&W 40s Noir and its look is basically the one I'm going for(though I came up with it well before this film ever came out). See its trailer at the link above.

As for the cameras, well, they're going to stay, but I'm always tweaking. For example, some of the views, in the "demo", are different from the ones that were there when I first offered it. The one shown in the 2nd screen above, is no longer present(and it happened to be one of my favorite angles).

I'm playing with the possibility of allowing the player to choose whether they want these cameras or a traditional 3rd person one. Even if they choose the current scheme, they will still be able to look around and move in regular 3rd person whenever they want via holding down a button(assuming I get it right - I have something in place, just not perfected, yet).

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 01:35

It looks great on my monitor. The whole dark, wobly-cubic, high contrast look rocks. I think adding any more ambient light would take away from the dramatic contrast you've got going there now. It works well with the B&W theme and the geometry. Just my opinion.

Posted By: tesanders

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 02:39

I was unable to see my character at all, oddly enough. I have the brightness maxxed out on my monitor, so that was not likely the culprit. I saw only a white patch at the center of the screen, with the soldier occasionally silhouetted against it as I passed.

I ran it a second time, and noticed that -- for an instant -- the background was a lighter gray, against which I could see my player model. Then it went dark before I could move.

I took a screenshot and brightened it by 50%, so the blacks were all gray; at that point, I could barely begin to make out the shapes. Not sure if it's my vidcard or what?

GeForce 4 ti4200
Windows 2000

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 02:56

Maybe it has something to do with your monitor's gamma setting? My old PC's monitor used to display everything dark. I couldn't play most games, though Max Payne 1 had a gamma correction setting in it's options and increasing that allowed me to play it. I then found out how to increase the gamma of my monitor, and this corrected all of my dark problems. I think it was Adobe Gamma from the Control Panel. I'm sure there are free utilities out there that can do this. I'm not sure if Windows has anything to handle this built in.

You mentioned a white patch. There is a model covering the entire view. The game starts out completely white and the controls disabled. After the white gradually fades to the scene, the controls kick in. I wonder if this model has anything to do with your white patch?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 13:05

@A. Russell:

Thanks

@tesanders:

It seems that gamma is a build option and I can't set it before a level loads like some have suggested. You can increase the brightness by increasing a view's ambient level, but the way it does it does not keep the contrast in check. JCL mentioned in another thread about using the new material system and I guess mat_shaded is what I'm wanting to experiment with. I've received some semi-promising results.

________

Well, anyway, I'm going to hold off on this matter. I'm also having 2nd thoughts about the cameras. I walked through the 2 levels with my regular 3rd person cam and I'd love nothing more than to use it full time. 1) I like the "feel" of it better, 2) Less hassles when it comes to certain enemy/combat management sitauations. I'm a designer, not a coder. I can get some stuff done, but the artistic side is what I like working with and what I'm best at.

That brings me to the 3rd person camera. The reason I can't use it is because of the wall clipping thing. That's old news, however. That's the one thing holding me back from using it, and it's frustrating. My request(plead

) for assistance in implementing the feature still stands to anyone that would be willing to lend a helping hand. My PM box is always open. If it never gets perfected, no biggie, I'll just stick with the current setup.

Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/24/03 18:43

Ok.. pull no punches...
First...
Black and white.. with no textures? ummm
no one will want to play a whole game like this.. no way. The concept is overly dogmatic and contrived. rethink your visual concept to allow for more variation in visual experience. At least make b&W textures.. bricks, concrete, etc. A little spot of color here and there would do wonders.. like a pool of red blood.. or whatever.. this way you are making a more sophisticated visual statement.

The camera approach needs serious fine-tuning of course..movement is almost impossible in some areas.

Posted By: Monkey_man

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/25/03 06:26

but mr.aufderheide have u ever played games like resident evil? if u havent noticed most of them have the style of black&white so that it would make an earie effect? and i happen to think that this effect looks great in games? and i wouldnt start attacking peoples games if u dont know what your talking about!
so please do some research!

sry if i was off subject!

Posted By: poke_smot

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/25/03 08:14

Nice level design.
Some of the camera angles were great. Like when coming down the stairs.

But I really like the city.

Movement was sometimes difficult for two things I think...
1) Mouse pan too fast.
2) Controls were kinda weird, took a bit to get used to it.

For battles(or whatever you will have), will the camera move?
I think it would be cool if, when a enemy or whatever is present, the camera would move to place the player(at a slight angle) between itself and whatever the object is.
Maybe end up at player head level.

Posted By: poke_smot

Re: The Disenfranchised...demo.. - 10/25/03 12:19

Camera manipulation is a big part of my current project.
If some of the stuff works out like I hope it does... I'll let ya in on it.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 11/16/03 13:45

Just a quick update..

I've pretty much gotten the new controls in place. So far, so good.

I'm fairly close to completing my new camera system. It's different from what is on display in the posted demo and more closely resembles the views, in level 1, when you come down the first staircase and on either side of the front door corridor. In other words, they will still be cinematic in nature, only they will all be able to move instead of simply being glued in place.

I might do a website update this Sunday or sometime shortly thereafter. It's been about 3 months since the last one.

If you'd like to try out the old demo, feel free...it's still available:

http://www.orangebrat.com/thedisenfranchised.zip

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 12/15/03 05:35

Finally, a website update. Six screens, though nothing that hasn't been shown here in one form or another. New entry in Facts and a slightly tweaked Links are the rest. As always, comments/constructive criticism are welcomed.

www.thedisenfranchised.com

The walkthrough demo, from the previous post, is no longer active.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/11/04 16:43

First off, thanks go to Dan for suggesting that I experiment with using flat shaded level surfaces. This is turning out to be a pretty huge breakthrough for the title. I've been playing around, and I'm now an official convert.....and to think I almost didn't do it.

I've set every level surface to FLAT. Combining this with face by face tweaking of albedo/ambient values and combining all of this with material scripting and dynamic lightsources is producing beautiful things.

You have almost complete control on how the actual level will behave in terms of shading and best of all you can change most of it in realtime to suit your needs.

There are disadvantages, of course.

One is that I lose the nice precalculated lightmaps that have been associated with this title forever. It's a huge change of direction and recreating the effect of patches of light on a wall(from a setting sun or an exterior lightsource, for example) are going to be tricky if not impossible to pull off.

The other trouble spot is that light produced by dynamic sources isn't stopped by walls(or anything else). If it is shining on a wall and illuminating the floor...well...the floor on the other side of the wall is also going to have some light on it. Fortunetely, the backside of the lit wall will be shaded correctly. I've seen this occur in many commercial titles, so I suppose it is impossible to workaround, though if anyone knows one, please fill me in.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages and I don't see myself returning to the way it was before.

Anyway, here's a sneak peek...keep in mind that this is simply a test shot and I haven't tweaked or finessed it in any way. I still haven't totally gotten the hang of everything and this level wouldn't have a light like that anyway:

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/12/04 08:18

I was gabbing about "happy accidents" over in another thread. I've been playing with combining Shaded lightmap map entities, dynamic lights, dynamically moving the sun around(but not using it as a sun), plus what I'm experimenting on in the flat world.

One thing I never realized is that the light emitted by the sun really operates on two levels. If you are standing on a lit up area(lightmap) then the model is shaded correctly(IF you use the appropriate material settings...without them it simply brights up the whole model as you would expect). If you're standing in a darker area, then it still gets shaded, though it is much much less(again, because of the use of materials overriding the value on the floor). By moving the sun around and not using it as a sun, you can fake radiosity on models, globally(or individually if you use alot of materials).

I've also been playing with dynamic lights and using them to fake radiosity. If you use the right combo of RGB, lightrange, and positioning it is pretty convincing. It takse some tweaking, but I've had nice results.

The only problem with dynamic lights is that I get some pretty major league banding...esp in the falloff zone. I don't know if that is an engine fluke or just the way these lights operate. I've never seen that effect in commercial games. Perhaps it has something to do with level textures being 16-bit as opposed to 24-bit.

Basically, it can be summed up like this(noobs should live by what I'm going to say)...learn to adapt and don't stick to the gameplan. In the last post I said I didn't see myself going back to the way it was before....before that, I could never see myself in a million years using flat shading in a major way. I've come up with this weird and wonderful hybrid style because I loosened the reigns and decided to take some chances. There's all kinds of "hidden" flexibility just waiting out there, and this is yet another reason why A6 is such a great tool for the little people.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/13/04 16:13

Here are a couple of new shots...actually you've seen the shots or very similar ones, before, but this is using the new fake radiosity method...there's also some atmospheric fog and fullscreen filmgrain but those can't really be seen too well in screenshots. My main complaint is the dynamic light banding. I hope Conitec can improve it...if it's possible, anyway. You can esp. make it out in the bottom pic:

Todo list: Tweak what I have until it is right...implement light beam sprites in the windows, swaying, tattered curtain in the top shot, replace the hanging lamp in top shot with the final model, implement floating dust particles, among others.

I still have some jaggies, but I've managed to come up with a compromise...it has caused my overexposed lightmap patches to sort of look like they're made of thick paint(that's the best description I can think of). You can see this on the floor of the bottom pick.

Once I nail my new approach, I'll start in on levels and get away from these 2 that I've spent so much time on(too much time). I have everything planned out both in my script and in my head, so it is just a matter of doing it.

Posted By: ventilator

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/13/04 16:18

looks great! which method do you use now for lighting? is it all dynamic? ...i don't see jaggies anymore!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/18/04 11:09

Features update:

I've managed to nail some great dynamic lightning. It is totally randomized...each flash has it's own random intensity(RGB), range, and position...and the number of flashes can be anywhere between 1 and 10. I can change that, of course, but I'm happy with it. The pause between each series of flashes is also randomized, though kept between 8 and 15 seconds. The light affects all entities and level surfaces as expected. I haven't implemented any type of visual lightning bolts or anything like that, but I'll get around to it.

Footprints and dust plumes are in, though not perfect. Kind of tricky getting the particles to look right and placed in the right place.

Next up is dust particles and light shafts...curtain and other gravy after that.

Posted By: bupaje

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/20/04 03:37

@OrangeBrat -you are doing a great job pushing the envelope with your cinematic lighting and camera ideas.

If time allows can you post a small shot of an area with and without the 'fake radiosity' idea?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/20/04 04:59

Here's one..it's almost a perfect match with the one above...it uses only static light and tweaking of the ambient value of individual block faces:

Another factor that lightens it up is fog. The only thing that bugs me is the artifacting from both dynamic lights and from fog. I really hate it.

Here are two shots of my new dust...the first is simply the "patches" in place in front of each window...the 2nd is a test light shaft...it looks great in motion...that hard edge around the flare is not noticeable in motion:

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/25/04 19:40

I've been experimenting with a different type of moving fog/dust. You can see it in the pic below...the lighting is correct as it moves(nice side effect from alpha fading). The fog in the dark area between the two brightly lit areas is much darker, though you can't tell from this angle.

The biggest problem is framerate, though since this won't be either a 1st or 3rd person chase cam, it shouldn't matter. Depending on the final angle, I'll adjust everything if needed.

The angle in the image is pretty close, as is, though it will be farther down and to the left. The model(which is in the view though in darkness), will cast a nice long shadow when stencils get implemented.

Posted By: bupaje

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/26/04 03:03

@OrangeBrat -looks really fantastic. The mist in the doorway looks cool. This may not be applicable but did you see that 'clouds' article on Gamasutra? I wonder if some of those techniques might not be useful to create some nice for affects approaching and then surrounding the player.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/26/04 07:32

I skimmed over that article..it was interesting, though I would have to think about how to approach it.

I know that Josef's Tear has a fog system that supposedly interacts with the player. I'm not too concerned about that level of realism, but it would be something to see I'm sure.

I'm just trying to give a nice simulation of light beams coming through windows without resorting to sprite shafts. That works if you have a limited view of the window; otherwise it becomes obvious that a billboard is being used and will destroy the illusion.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/28/04 16:28

This Deco style hallway is influenced by the one seen throughout the film Barton Fink. There's also a bit of exterior to go with this and in the end it will be a multi-story structure complete with a rooftop(which ties into my plotline).

It's still WIP..missing light fixtures and doorways. I also haven't nailed the contrast, yet, so it's a little gray at the moment...esp. in the immediate foreground. I'm dealing with over 60 lights, here alone, so it is simply trial and error. The darker sloped block on either side of the archways will be replaced by an ornate Deco sprite. Finally, there will be more variety in the floor and walls...it won't simply be a single tone all the way down:

Posted By: bupaje

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/29/04 03:19

Very sharp looking shot. I think you made a good choice with black and white as the shots and lighting seem somehow more dramatic without color.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/29/04 07:15

I think that's 3 compliments without a thank you...so thanks for the kind words.

Black and white is a beautiful thing. It forces you to pay attention to what is right in front of you. There's no color to distract the eye, although, color is great when used correctly, too. Watch the movie Glengarry Glen Ross for some of the best color usage I've ever seen. Beautiful stuff. Find the Orson Welles classic The Third Man for equally beautiful B&W, shadows, camera angles, etc.

I actually updated the screen since the post...so that is why what I describe sort of contradicts what is presented.

Still heavy WIP, though. For some reason, that angle reminds me of The Shining. I also haven't given it that abstract look from the other two areas, but I don't think I'll bother. I like it the way it is and the doorways(which are in the style) will be enough I think.

I think my main problem, in the end, is going to be models. I am just not "built" for it. I'm trying to learn, but I'm much more comfortable with level construction. This is why you see no models in any of my shots.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/30/04 14:03

Same hallway, just further along. The dark circle at the end of the corridor will be the home of a circular window:

Posted By: Julius

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/30/04 15:00

Funny you mention your talent at levels but not models. I'm the opposite!! If I put much thought into it I can make fine levels, but I am much more comfortable with models!

Julian

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/30/04 16:14

I'm getting along better. I'm playing with Wings3D, and I like it more than anything else I've used. Easy to use. Hopefully, I'll be able to model in it, and animate in and export from Gamespace smoothly.

Posted By: Commander_Josh

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/30/04 16:58

I don't get it... why learn to model in Wings3D when you've got gameSpace? I would put the same effort in learning to model in gameSpace and do it all from there. Save importing exporting and so on.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 01/30/04 17:20

I'm just broadening my horizons a bit. I'll certainly be working in GS for animation/boning(when the direct MDL7 exporter gets released), but I like the ease of use of W3D for now. It's Nendo on steroids and I've always liked that old program's style.

If I find the import/export from one to the other to cause headaches, then I'll switch to GS fulltime, of course. No problems, so far.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 02/17/04 21:14

I'm going to be trying something a bit out of the ordinary(for this project). Textures...real(GASPP!) textures.

Two reasons:

1) It helps hide the quantization artifacts and shadow errors.

2) I'm bored with it. The look..not the project. When it works it's greats, but it is very difficult to keep it interesting....esp when working with lighter environments.

This doesn't mean I'll be changing the twisted look or lighting style, this only applies to the texturing. I don't mind creating textures, but I can't stand making them seamless. I'm trying out Texture Maker and that seems to be a cool little program that helps alleviate the tedium.

I'm going for more of a cartoony style, but more on the dark side of things. I'm not interested in gritty realism. It would certainly fit the game nicely, but it's been done and better than I'm capable of, so I'm just not interested.

Posted By: Don Pedro

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 02/17/04 22:20

I bought Texture maker while ago and like it and it's features a lot. What comes to making seamless textures it has it problems that all programs have (at least all I have tested) that it fits for some textures but if you have a lot of details in a texture it's basically useless and you have to make them by hand anyway.
I'm eagerly waiting to see what improvements you have planned!
Btw. bump mapping (when it's available) would be great thing to see in your level geometry.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 02/18/04 01:02

Yep, level bumpmapping is something I'm looking forward to, myself. It is somewhat of a 3rd reason for switching over to the real world. I had actually gotten this crazy idea of going toon. In fact, if you check out that head on the game site, it is toonshaded(though not a 3D rendering) and that is the visual style that I've been wanting to use for characters. It would clash with the current texturing, though.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 03/01/04 02:57

This one's a bit more advanced:

I've started playing around with sprites and wall coverings. The large poster on the far left is only a placeholder. The white dots are moving dust particles that twinkle in the light, and there's a light ground fog. Both are more visible in game. I've also started finalizing the geometry a bit and adding some non-weathered textures here and there. I'm combining them with the plain, flat ones.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 03/28/04 12:50

Screenshot update...go to The Game -> Evidence for the newest batch of six. The shots from the December update should be considered null and void:

www.thedisenfranchised.com

I've also enhanced the Evidence section. A slideshow option has been added, so you only have to click on one thumbnail from each date. You can move through the full sized images via the Previous and Next buttons.

Posted By: Yu_Une

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 03/31/04 18:16

My wife seems interested in your game when and where is it for sale?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 03/31/04 18:30

Still a ways off before it'll be complete. I hope to increase the output once I have some of my effects tests in the can.

As for where it will be for sale..well most likely via the website, though if I were to be fortunate enough to catch the eye of a publisher, that would open up the options(I would hope, anyway

)

What exactly sparks your wife's interest? Just curious.

Posted By: Yu_Une

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 04/01/04 05:06

She likes puzzle solving game and games witch you can pick thing up, witch I gather from your screenshots looks like a detective style game?

I wish you the best.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/10/04 13:28

Here's seven updated WORK IN PROGRESS screenshots from the city level. All are from actual gameplay cameras. I'll be working on signage and stylized textures over the next few days.

Posted By: SlyBoots

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/11/04 07:37

From what I've seen it's looking very good (nice to see a game with some style). Though I hope you keep the game from looking too much the same (it might turn out to be a little repetetive).

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/11/04 15:39

Thanks. Sure, it can get repetitive if you're not careful. There's going to be a lot of background activity in the levels to help keep it alive. American McGee's Alice is a pretty big influence on me with this point. Ambient sound and ambient music will be important to the personality of most levels.

Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: The Disenfranchised.. (OT) - 05/12/04 01:01

If you want to get away from using geocities for image hosting (because it doesn't display right), you can post as many images as you want here and link them, my server doesn't block outside displaying of images.

http://www.shadowforgegames.net/gallery/

Screens look good, starting to look much better now

-Rhuarc

Posted By: neo_30788

Re: The Disenfranchised..screenshots - 05/12/04 03:14

I think the pictures looks a bit crazy but Good. But i think you schoulb make grey texture on the houses und Wals and fog in the streets.

Posted By: Nardulus

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/12/04 04:01

Hey Brat Man,

Nice work. The images remind me of Tim Burton's style. You are really conveying a cool mood with the limited BW options you have in color and lights. Bravo.

I look forward to playing this world.

Ken

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/13/04 00:06

I'm into German Expressionist and Noir films, both of which are big influences on Tim Burton(esp. the former), so yeah there's a bit of him in my work. Batman: The Animated Series(particularly the backgrounds, lighting, and the minimalist textures) are heavy influences on me, too.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/30/04 05:29

Three new screens of a hallway. The seven exterior shots are still up a few posts back. Some of those, interior shots, really old shots(including the crusty color ones) are up at the site.

Posted By: SlyBoots

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/30/04 05:37

That hallway reminds me of the style used Grim Fandango.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/30/04 05:45

That would make sense given they both take place in the same era.

Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/30/04 06:47

Looks really cool, always loved the 'batman style' aproche of your game (and site)... Do you leave the dark level geometry just flat (or non?-) shaded? And the white surface shaded too? It's a interesting style, though it could be fairly hard to not become repetative, even with background activity...
Anyways it looks good, and good luck with it..

PHeMoX

Posted By: prophet

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 05/31/04 22:38

Looks really good. Just goes to show that you don't have to make a game loaded with overdone textures and thingsto make it look good. Very nice. Any ideas when you will have it completed? Just curious.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 06/01/04 01:23

I'm hoping within the next couple of years. I'm going to make an effort to up the output now that I've pretty much found the style I want to work with.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 06/27/04 23:33

Here's a quicky shot from a final camera position of the revised apartment hallway. Lighting and smoky look are pretty much set in stone, and the light fixtures, rugs, and wall hangings are placeholders. More work to be done.

[see next post]

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 07/01/04 05:13

I went ahead and posted a more advanced version of the scene. It features tweaks to the arches, the introduction of a real texture, and some flares. I've also managed to complete the stairwell, completed an elevator shaft, placed a few bits on the exterior, and "penciled in" the floors for the 2nd and 3rd story, as well as the accessible roof(plays into the plot). Since snapping this image, I've removed the rugs on the floor simply because they didn't work.

I'm toying with the idea of porting the project over to a totally fixed camera w/prerendered backgrounds(think Grim Fandango, Resident Evil). I really like my Eternal Darkness style swooping cameras during gameplay, so I don't know, yet.

Maybe I'll save that idea for the future.

Posted By: SlyBoots

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 07/01/04 11:43

I like that a lot.

Posted By: Alkai

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 07/01/04 22:25

This looks great!

Planning a demo? What is your estimated release date?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 07/01/04 23:59

Maybe. Maybe not.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised.. - 07/03/04 03:11

What? No comments? Am I that despised?

Posted By: terrormiez21

Re: The Disenfranchised videos.. - 07/03/04 03:21

that�s great! How long you spent time on it?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 07/05/04 05:10

The videos are history.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 07/08/04 11:32

Here's a couple of tech demo videos for my new dynamic lightning system. This isn't meant to represent the final effect, but you'll hopefully see where I'm headed. Once I get replace the placeholders with proper art and balance/finalize everything, it will be much more effective than simply strobing a dynamic light.

Lightning test - 264KB(10 seconds)
Lightning test 2 - 132KB(8 seconds)

When it's finished...the effect will be something like this, only in my own style:

http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Gamecube/Resident_Evil_4/bio06.jpg

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/04 20:04

Here's a quick sneak peek of something new I've been working on. The fan rotates and there's another above the camera:

[pic removed]

I'm still tweaking lights and will add some kind of non-plain texture(s) to the floor, as well as, wall hangings of some sort. Bar specific models will be scattered about, as well.

This is mainly a cutscene set, but I may allow gameplay at its conclusion. If not, this is about 50% complete(give or take). There's also an exterior and a bit more behind the camera, but it is still in need of work.

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/04 20:12

Nice bar.

You'll find a lot of bars will light the bottles on the shelves behind the bar, and just over the actual bar itself. Sometimes there will be lighting from under the bar on the cusomers side (handy for finding dropped change or looking at ladies' legs). A lot of bars are lit like that, just lighting up key areas and keeping the rest comfortably dim. At your bar I think it would be hard to see what you are drinking.

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/04 20:42

Here's my old bar/apartment and my previous apartment. Notice the lighting around the bar area. Check some bars in your area, you'll find it common to light the drinking area like this.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/04 23:11

Keep in mind the project is set in the 1940s, so the lighting isn't going to necessarily reflect today's standards. In a lot of films from the time(even dark Noir), the bars are usually very brightly lit with little if any darkness. If anyone has some nice reference photos from the time, I'd appreciate a heads up. I have a few dozen films from the time, so it's time to do some research:

[pics removed]

Posted By: mccow28

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 03:42

This is stupendously awesome! Keep it up!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 05:23

Thanks. I was thinking about introducing textures similar to those found in my major influence: http://www.conitecserver.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=421753 but I've always been terrible with coming up with something interesting and tileable. Even if I do pursue that, I want to keep them stylized. Semi-cartoony, but not too much so.

[pics removed]

Posted By: mccow28

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 07:48

So are you working on this yourself?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 10:37

Yes, I've worked on it in one form or another since early 2000.

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 20:22

I'm wondering about your use of level blocks vs models. I see you used level blocks for the bar stools. This is cool because the lighting is cosistant with the rest of the room. On the other hand, you are going to have to add models in for the details anyway, and models would look rounder. What's your policy on this?

Posted By: Realspawn

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 20:49

great stuff looking foreward to see it all in action
in case you might be interested have a look

HERE

Posted By: Alkai

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/02/04 21:34

How close do you feel that you are to finishing the game? Definitely like the look... I have no idea what it's about though...

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/03/04 14:39

Newest build. These will be last shots released of the bar until it is complete:

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/03/04 15:57

Do you mean just this room, or the whole game?

I have a bunch of scans from a liquor ordering book I used to use when I was in the business. You could fix them up in Photoshop and make them into nice skins for bottles. Let me know, I'll send them to you.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/03/04 16:33

The last screen just for this room. I went ahead and included one more from an opposite angle, but that will be it.

You can PM me a link if you have something handy. I have a pretty nice coffee table book full of nothing but closeups of beer, wine, and spirits bottles, but the more the merrier.

Posted By: Nems

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/03/04 18:58

Awsome stuff Orange Brat
Theres been some major improvments in ambience with you atmosphere and mood, simply wonderfull level design and implementation.
Cheers.

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/04/04 03:15

I'll get back to you tomorrow -I'm mildly drunk.

Posted By: mccow28

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/05/04 03:14

This game is spiffy so far. If you need any beta testers,

I'm here, you know.....

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/14/04 10:39

These are close enough to being complete to post. The white squares on the walls will be posters/pictures. The models will need a proper skin, but I'll worry about that later. I'll probably weather the geometry a bit by building in some chipped away walls or floor tiles. There will be a few more tweaks here and there(like the window graphic), but I'll take care of all of this when I come back to apply a 2nd coat of paint and polish. It's time to move on to something else:

Posted By: Spike1215

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/14/04 11:34

Very good, I think your game will be very interesting. One of the main reasons why I like independent game development is that people arn't affraid to try new things.

Posted By: mccow28

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/15/04 10:43

The only part that scares me is the guard model.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/15/04 23:57

Yeah, he is a little scary isn't he?

Posted By: fuxerz

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 00:13

Yeah the guard scares the hell out of me

lol
Orange Brat,the level desing is very good.Will you leave all the textures balck and white at the end?

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 02:04

That's a nice looking bar. The posters look too straight to me. In most bars that have posters and notices, they are tacked, taped, stuck a little crooked or overlapping. They might also be a little dog-eared or ripped.

I'm just being fussy.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 02:42

The game will be completely black and white.

The posters will be adjusted later on when they are finalized. I'll probably tweak the configuration/quantity, too.

Posted By: Lunz88

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 05:51

Looks cool. The Guard isn't so scary

Posted By: Neuro

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 09:21

Speaking of black and white games.....i found this interesting little demo...
http://www.clickteam.com/webftp/files/GhostHouse.zip

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/16/04 10:28

Yeah, I played that old Jamagic demo a while back. One of the old Indie game award winners(or maybe honorary mentions) was a black and white, too. It was a fps and was made to look like a pen and ink drawing. The Fatal Frame games on PS2/XBox also have some B&W parts.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/05/04 18:26

This is an informational post instead of a screenshot one. There's been a major shift with this project.

I've toyed with it many times before and have decided once and for all to convert this project from a survival horror action adventure to a straight point & click(PAC), inventory based, heavy on the story adventure title.

The player will still be controlled via the keyboard or a controller, but if a satisfactory PAC pathfinding script with perfect object avoidance ever comes my way, I'll implement it as an option. That way, the player can choose the game mechanics style that suits their taste. As of right now, the PAC component will involve the selection of items. The cameras will go through an overhaul, as well. Less swooping around and more fixed point fun.

Adventure game fans are starving for something new and different. There are plenty of adventure games, but there are few good stories to go along with them, and a well told tale is what drives the genre. I think I can have great success with that target audience.

Anyway, this is the last post from me in this thread(apart from responding to anyone who responds to this one). Whenever I make some progress, I will start a new one, so I can have a fresh start. Thanks to all who posted in this one, and to all of the silent onlookers who may have some interest in The Disenfranchised.

Posted By: Nardulus

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/05/04 23:54

Hi Bratman,

Maybe some one has already said this but, before you toddle off and create a cool new adventure game. Take a look at Grim Fandango from Lucas Arts.

The film Noir style you are developing reminded me themactilly of Grim Fandango, now that you are heading to a full blown adventure, maybe there is some good concepts you can gleam from that game.

Gamasutra stated the Sam and Max development group has left Lucas Arts after the game had been cancelled because of a precieved lack of interest by gamers in the adventure genre. Sometime lack of interest in a genre gets confused with lack of quality products in the genre.

I look forward to seeing what you can come up with, exploring those cool scenes you have been creating is excatly on target with me. Heck if there is a mystery or two to solve that would be all the better.

Ken

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/06/04 04:54

Funny you bring up Grim Fandango. I was just thinking about reinstalling it. It has similarities with my own. Both are set in the Noir era. Both feature direct controlled characters. Both are adventures. Grim is a comedy, whereas mine has little...mainly dry and subtle, so that's one difference.

As for Lucasarts cancelling Sam & Max 2 and Full Throttle 2...well that's a shame, but the facts don't back them up. The Syberia games have sold hundreds of thousands of copies and a game called Runaway: A Road Adventure sold around 400000-500000 in the last year. Alot of these sales are in Europe, however.

Posted By: Orange Brat

The Disenfranchised is moving - 10/28/04 15:53

I said I was going to start a new thread for any future official news, but I don't see the point given the bittersweet subject(and no I'm not quitting

).

I've decided to leave 3DGS behind and move on to a new engine to continue development on The Disenfranchised, and I've decided to use the Wintermute Engine for that purpose. It's dedicated, 2D adventure game authorware, and it fits my game like a glove. It features a scripting language, as well as, a wide assortment of functions that are specifically built for the genre. It has a full suite of realtime GUI editors, and the next free update will add 3D object support, so if I wanted to do a Syberia/Syberia II or Grim Fandango(alternate site: http://www.ninth-world.com/) style game, I could. I'm kind of up in the air on that one. Full 2D or not full 2D?

With all this said, I'm still going to hang around the forum and answer questions(if I can), and I'm still going to use WED for prototyping and SED for the script editor(gotta remember not to press F5

). I'll continue to update everyone on my progress, since I'm still using 3DGS, but I'll move it into a new thread like I mentioned last time. So, for the second time...this thread officially comes to a close(except answers to any questions).

Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: The Disenfranchised is moving - 10/28/04 16:01

If you are going to be working with a 2D engine - pick up a book (or grab one of the Loomis books from online http://www.saveloomis.org/ and learn perspective techniques. He does a great job introducing things to you - and after that, just play with it a bit.

With a real 2D engine you can do some fun things with 2 and 3 point perspective that are nearly impossible with a 3D engine. Definately would help with the style of game you are working as well (allow you to get those comic book camera angles).

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/12/05 15:30

It's been a long while, but perhaps it's time for a small update. Some have probably already figured it out, but the project never left 3DGS. There was nothing wrong with WME, but I miss the freedoms of realtime, and the game I've been pounding on forever will be best experienced in that way. Someday, though I'll probably work with that engine.

The Brat site is long out of date, but it is going to be getting an overhaul. The colors and graphics will remain unchanged(except for some tweaking), but the layout will be changed and it will be much more accessible and mainstream in nature. I pretty much know what I'm going to do, and it's just a matter of me to stop being lazy. The game site has been reverted to a teaser and will remain that way until I decide to relaunch the PR machine. It'll probably remain as it was, designwise.

I've done next to nothing in the past few months, on level design, but have been working almost exclusively in c-script. I've mananged to complete most of the tasks I have planned, but I have a few still remaining(like this). There was also a bit of burnout during this time, but I've pretty much gotten back into the swing of things.

My main goal, at the moment, is to have an actual "game" running when I test. That means, a frontend, a UI, semi-complete player animation and physics code, gameplay/mechanics options, all hotkeys and ingame menus in place, and a few other "global" features(meaning not level specific but game specific). A lot of this is in place, but needs polishing, tweaking, and tender loving care.

My secondary goal is to have this thing done by this time next year. That's not going to be set in stone, but I'd like for it to happen. Once I get these basic scripting duties out of the way, it will be time to get serious with level design, again, and more than likely I'll need a modeller/animator to help me out on that end. I'm not too concerned about that, as of yet.

Enough jabbering...back to work.

Posted By: beegee

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/13/05 00:53

the screenshots look's good.
and when comes the game out?
Soon or when it's done!

--------
beegee

Posted By: SlyBoots

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/13/05 01:52

That's cool (I was wondering if we'd see another update) and I like your new avatar, Grim Fandango was an excellent game.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/21/05 07:19

Another quickie info post just to say that this thing is still alive and kicking. I've come up with some pretty nice story ideas or at least concepts and am going to start writing again to get it where it needs to be. The original long plot is going to get chopped up and condensed into a short story and will be 1 of however many individual tales are told in this anthology.

I've pretty much gotten my frontend(menus, splashscreen, UI, save/load system) complete or at an advanced enough stage that I don't have to worry much with it. I have a fairly cool idea for boxart(cover) and will work on that whenever I get in the art creation mood.

For the new people, here are some really old screenshots. This is not necessarily how the game will turn out now that I've taken a turn down adventure game alley. I'm going to rebuild a lot of stuff to reflect the new style I have in mind. More actual textures, more crazy angled geometry. That Metronome game is a fairly close approximation of where I've always wanted to take this but with my own touch reflected in it:

Posted By: Ayrus

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/21/05 07:29

Glad to see it is still alive... havn't seen nor heard boo from this in a long long time.

The new shots are looking good (Also, do I spy the infamous 3DGS Guard model

). The last shot is my favourite, it has that abstract adventure style that is key to any adventure game.

Regards,
Ayrus

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/22/05 18:38

Yeah, these old shots still have the guard in them. I've since replaced him with a new test model with a few more animation frames and bones based. I've managed to implement some nice blending between animation states so there's none of that snapping from a stand to a walk or from a walk to a run and vice versa. It also has a nice head turning mode and turns to look at flagged items whenever the player passes by. I had quite a bit of help getting all of this implemented, although I did work on a portion on my own. Thanks go out to those who lent me a hand(they know who they are

).

Hopefully, I will be able to find the right camera angles for each section. The shots, above, are not final nor is anything else about them. As soon as I crank out some of these story ideas, I hope to begin on the level design again. I've had some personal garbage goings on here in the real world, and I just haven't felt up to it. I think the ol' calling is returning, though.

Posted By: Towelie

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/22/05 18:46

I love the screen with the broken wall. I'm trying to do something similiar and I must say, your much better than I am at doing this.

Game looks really unique too, what kind of game? Argh fine, I'll go back and read the whole thread

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/22/05 18:59

It's an adventure game but it will be direct control(keyboard/gamepad, etc) instead of point & click. It will consist of multiply stories, puzzles, and character interaction. This title started out as an action title and a mixture of Mafia, Max Payne, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc but has evolved into a more pure adventure. It'll be more like The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits than a straight up horror show, now. It'll still maintain the black & white palette and still be set in the 1930s/40s.

That should save you a lot of reading.

Oh, if you want to learn how to do nice weathered walls/floors, then get yourself a copy of Max Payne 2. I learned a lot from those levels.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 07/03/05 07:04

Quick update: I have designed a new city area, on paper and going to start in on it today. It will incorporate many of the areas I have showcased over the year, and it will be only part of a much larger cityscape. Instead, of creating a vast city that is spread over a large area, I'm going to create one that goes *up* and is more vertical. It'll contain many levels/floors and won't really have traditional streets. Lots of bridges and wear and tear. I'm also readjusting those older levels so the texturing process will be less painful. These areas will be a nightmare to texture given the complexity, so it is paramount that blocks conform to some kind of standard power of 2 dimension.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 07/21/05 19:28

I can't say who it is, but I have brought a texture artist onboard. This should relieve some of the pressure on me and allow my time to be devoted to level creation and scripting. Once we get a few "completed" environments under our belt, I'll have to start thinking about those silly model things.

I have someone in mind to work on the character models, but that will be a pay situation, so it'll be a while. They're good, though so I don't mind. I can probably handle non-characters myself...I've had satisfactory results with that....I just don't like the whole skinning process.

Anyway, if they want themselves known, they'll come out of the woodwork and showcase something every now and again for the purpose of community critique of their work.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/22/05 11:01

All right, a very quick update. I'll be passing off one of the main structures to the texture guy, and then we'll just have to see what happens. If you recall that apartment hallway with the arches, from many many months back, it's that one although with an exterior and tweaked on the inside. Of course, it'll be fully textured instead of my tonal style. I still like that, but I'm bored with it and it's a bit too esoteric to continue with, although maybe here and there.

I'm having to actually work within fixed sized geometry, so I'm having to alter my usual way of working. It wasn't an issue using 16x16 flat color textures.

Here's a piece of sloppy, gel pen on legal pad concept art. I like it, although I'll Disenfranchise style it up when I finish the first pass.

That water tower will be a lot bigger, and there sure are a ot of stairs in this frickin' city.

Posted By: Inestical

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/22/05 11:06

wow

nice concpet

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/24/05 04:31

Getting there. I changed the type of roof and had to think for a minute when it came to building it. I'd never attempted that style before, but it turned out nicely. It has a nice smooth, curvy slope towards the street, too. This is probably 80-85% complete. I need to figure out what to do with the crap around the windows(placeholder) and the doorway area(placeholder). Also, have to think about the sign and doing something with the "belt" that goes around tje middle of the building. It's the only piece of normal geometry on the building..the rest have been Disenfranchised up.

These are WED shots:

Posted By: ShoreVietam

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/24/05 06:41

haha that's a really funny concet you have there!

Maybe you caould work with more models, it would make the texturing of those rotated parts much more easy.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/24/05 07:24

I might with the pipes and the water tower. I'm just roughing it out with geometry first.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/30/05 11:06

Here's the hotel's neighbor. This will be a place that sells sundries(books, magazines, newspapers, etc) and has living space above. It's basically finished except for possible some minor tweaks. The hotel will need some windows on the side, but that'll have to wait until I redo the interior. It's also a little block heavy, so I'll probably cut some corners.

Posted By: MatthzMan

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/30/05 12:20

I like your geometry-style!

Very good.

Posted By: Towelie

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 08/30/05 15:42

Cant wait to see it all textured!!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/05 08:47

My texture person is on the job. I'm kind of anxious now.

There hasn't been this much progress in a while..I've been stuck scripting for a year it seems. Here it is in context. Other than the two main buildings, the rest hasn't even been touched, yet. The streets and sidewalks are pretty much set in stone, though. The camera isn't final, and of course this is only a shot from WED. It'll be a nighttime scene and snowing(most likely). There's still a ton of detail to add like clutter, signs, ducts, pipes, wires, clothslines, cars, steam, etc.

Posted By: Towelie

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/01/05 13:21

Ooooooh fancy fancy

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/25/05 23:07

I've finally found a new story to develop for one of the episodes. It will be rather personal, so I hope I can finish it. I still need to redo/tweak the old, original gangster story that has existed for years, and I'll need one more plot. Anyway, I require music when I write, and I finally found something that keeps me typing, and also fits the mood of the title. It's the instrumental score to Donnie Darko, and so far it has helped quite a bit.

Posted By: OptimuS

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/25/05 23:39

You are not authorized to view this page...

that doesnt look good. Is it from my net provider?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 09/25/05 23:51

Huh? You lost me, and I'm not too bright, either.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/20/05 02:42

I've been brainstorming and writing and writing some more. I have what I think is going to be the "demo", so I'm going to take a break from writing and produce this thing. I have a lot of stuff other than the demo pages, but I want to actually have something that will showcase what I've been doing and what I'm trying to achieve.

It'll utilize a lot of the stuff I've shown over the years, so the geometry portion will require tweaking and finishing up what I started so long ago. It's only 7-pages, but a lot happens in them, and it ends with a nice cliffhanger as all storygame demos should.

Donnie Darko still plays and @OptimuS: I'm still lost and still not too bright.

Posted By: Julius

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/20/05 06:55

can't wait

will it be a large demo? (filesize, and length-wise?)

julius

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 10/20/05 07:45

No idea on the filesize. As for the length...it'll probably be 2-3 times longer than the Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy demo. It's gonna be a while...don't expect this anytime soon, but I have the outline and once I get the particulars squared away, it won't take too long to get it done.

It'll contain one major puzzle(with two possible solutions), and a couple major structures(a bar and an apartment building with a couple of explorable floors but probably only a couple enterable rooms). There will also be the surrounding exterior, although it'll be pretty small. There should be a fair amount of interactivity here and there...just stuff to play with but I don't know if that'll make it into the early demo or not. Any audio will most likely be temp, and I don't know if spoken dialogue will make it in this version or not. It just depends.

The whole episode will be 4-6 hours when complete(or thereabouts)....that's the game...not the demo.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/09/06 06:49

I've devoted little time to anything Disenfranchised the past few weeks because of a new job, but I worked a bit on the city block tonight. This is only a 3D WED shot, but I've started to Disenfranchisefy

the main structure a bit. The rest of the level is still basic, blocky, and unfinished but the actual layout is final. It's also lacking the tiny details, but so is everything else I've ever showcased.

Posted By: Towelie

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/11/06 12:49

I love the look ^^ yeahboy! The roof in the upper right hand corner could use more details though... as well as a few other places... but you admitted your lackign some detail so I wont go into great extent telling you what needs to be done to your level lol.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/11/06 17:19

Most of the other buildings are just basic placeholders. I'm working on the one with the sign hanging off the side(at a diagonal) and it look more detailed, now. It's also a bit taller. I'll probably tweak the main one, too and slap some experimental textures on it.

Posted By: Ran Man

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/11/06 17:32

Hey, I just realized something.

This thread was started 3 years ago!!!

Wed Jan 08 2003

Oh well, these games take time.

Looks good and great work Orange!

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/11/06 20:01

I cant access the website, it says that my access is "forbidden". Well... ehm.. whatever. I want to see again that stuff.. but ... grml.

keep up this promising stuff!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/11/06 23:42

The website in my signature? That's just a teaser site...nothing there except a black screen and a piece of vector art/logo. All news/screens, from when it was a full site are offline.

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/12/06 00:22

I clicked the URLs from the 1st post, expected that the site is working.. why did you put down your page? We see that you are making progress and your visuals are ready to show off (in the meaning of "non programmers art"

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/12/06 00:31

Oh, now I get it. I don't have the orangebrat and thedisenfranchised urls active at the moment. In fact, I just renewed both for a year, and I'll start using them again whenever I redesign the layout(s) and re-launch. Until then you can access the temporary sites below:

http://www.freewebs.com/orangebrat/
http://www.freewebs.com/thedisenfranchised/

The orangebrat one has a funky design, and sometimes has a delay in certain browsers. I'm dumping that layout for something more traditional, but it's going to be a while before I do it.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/14/06 08:02

Does anyone know how to get rid of the circled shadow artifacts? These aren't the "jaggies" I used to complain about, this is some kind of lightmapping thing that I thought disappeared a couple years ago with either 5.51 or maybe an early A6 version(can't remember). I think it had something to do with oddball angles and smaller blocks. I wasn't sure if there was some setting I was missing that had something to do with it. It shouldn't matter given I'm using the same code.

I haven't done a lights on test in months(since before 6.31.4...I'm using the current public beta), so this crap turning up again is unexpected, and I haven't seen them in well over a year and a half. Anyway, I was just testing something, and there they are:

Posted By: ShoreVietam

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/14/06 08:19

At least yours are smooth!!!

Posted By: Julius

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/14/06 11:42

@shorevietnam: i think ur hard artifact might hav something to do with that being the seam between 2 blocks joined together. even if u didnt put seperate blocks there urself, i think extra large surfaces are automatically split.

@orange_brat: i dont see how those artifacts could be avoided. im guessing its because the lightmaps hav a lower resolution than the actual textures, and the shadow is interpolated in between. maybe fiddle with the shadow resolution?

i could be completely wrong about these tho. its just wot i reckon.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/14/06 19:01

My flat textures' res is 16x16(I see no reason to go higher given they're flat), so I don't know if that's it. However, like I said I thought this was an old "bug" in the way lightmaps/shadows were built. Once upon a time, the artifacts were there, then jcl said something about it one day(after I posted a thread) and poof they vanished with the subsequent version. I'll have to try and find that comment, but that may prove difficult given the time involved and how this forum sometimes loses things.

There is one way I can make them go away and that's placing the static light slightly in the street instead of on the sidewalk(like the top right light). Anyway, this was just a global ambient test..that light treatment is awful to begin with, so it's going...this was just a surprise that's all.

@SV: I think he's right about the intersecting. I've always had that happen, too and it's just a matter of tweaking to make it go away...if you even can.

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/15/06 03:22

Try scaling your textures with factors like 0.1 or so to increase lightmap resolution -> results are edges that are unbelievable sharp

since you are using "flat" colored textures there should be no problem because you display no structures on your texture -> and use the "smoothing" feature for the lightmaps if you did not do yet.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/15/06 04:43

The scaling down method is to reduce "jaggies" on normal shadow lines. This is something else related to unusual shaped blocks or odd corners(like the ones where these artifacts are located). I only brought it up because I haven't seen them in so long, and I thought maybe something had changed or maybe I'm just missing a setting somewhere. I was also under the impression that it was some kind of bug years ago that got squashed.

No biggy right now..I can work around it with subtle placement of a light.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/15/06 07:35

Here's my current look...this is in engine. The townhouse and the starkness(the style) is all I'm showcasing...the white area(on the left) and the placeholder(on the right) will be dealt with eventually. Get used to the bright white windows on solid black...that will be extensively used...esp. on background buildings that don't require any detail. Anyway, it still requires some tweaking, and I might bring down the overall ambient a bit, but that's a matter for another day.

I'm also going to "invent" a visual style for light halos and the representation of light, in general. Well, it's already invented...I just have to apply my idea. I can't just place static point lights for it, I'll have to do a bit of tracing to influence the model's ambient, but I'm experimenting with first person(gasp!!!!) so perhaps not.

BTW, this Ward Jenkins illustration has been a major source of inspiration for weeks, now:

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 01/17/06 09:23

Here's a quick atmosphere test..hopefully it's not too dark on your monitor:

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 01:33

I really need to post a video of this for you to get the full effect, but these two captures will have to do. This is one of the first things or maybe it's the first thing you'll see when the game proper starts. There's a completely random full sky lightning effect(see 2nd pic), and I'm quite satisfied with the rain effect. The lightning can also show up on everything in the scene, but I have that turned off right now:

Posted By: SlyBoots

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 05:31

I love how it looks. I'd be very interested in seeing a video if you still intend on one.

Posted By: BlueBeast

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 14:06

Cmon' OB, you've been working on this for, like, 12 years now, quit teasing us, even your website has been down for the better part of 2 years

Show us a bunch more screenshots! Please o' please, we wanna see what you're up to!

(OK, maybe it hasn't been 12 years)

Jason

Posted By: beegee

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 14:58

The screens looks fantastic!
Yes i also think you should show us more of the project. Improved homepage and a new video would be great!

Regards,
beegee

--------------------------
GenuineMotors.de

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 16:53

Agree to Blue Beast!

Orange Bret, how much is already done of your game (in percent)!
Can we expect a demo or even a finished game?

Good to see, you are progressing!

Posted By: FBL

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 18:07

Hey! At least i'm not the only one working on his own game for like... forever

Seriously, screens look good and different from other projects. Keep it going.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/29/06 19:21

My main focus is to finish the "demo" I mentioned back in October. I haven't worked all that time, but this city exterior and a couple or three interiors will make it into that. As for percentage...not very much. A year of that time was writing, another year spent scripting(more or less), another year of burnout, another year of staring at the screen.

I have a skeleton of a game stucture and fragments of "levels" that will eventually be used or modified in some fashion. I don't even have any character models, however if I turn this into a first person title, I won't have to worry about a main player. I'd rather stay 3rd person, Ankh/Bone/Fahrenheit style cameras if I can, though.

If I do a video of that last screen, I'll wait until I polish it up a bit.

Posted By: Why_Do_I_Die

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/30/06 09:59

I said Damn Orange , i been seeing the Disenfranchised - coming later for yrz now , when are you planning on finishing the game ? Screenies i've seen dont look bad , I can see a unique style and feel ur going for , but your game has been in dev WAY WAY too long for the couple of screenies u've posted , which is something that couldnt have taken more than a week to do. Hope to see more of ur game soon.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/30/06 15:22

I've posted over 40 WIP screens in three years, and I also have hundreds of pages of story/script/ideas, so it's going to take a wee bit longer than a week.

I also don't work on it all the time(life, burnout, etc), and there was a genre switch about halfway through those three years, so there was and still is a period of transition/disorganization. I work on my schedule, and it'll get released when I get it done. That could be this year...it could be three years from now. I have that luxery.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/30/06 16:48

I only have four old ones online right now. Keep in mind things have/can change and probably have(although I haven't touched this level in years), but there are three from it. I've always liked this one because of the atmosphere and detail. There are also a bunch of dust particles all over the place in the lit areas. You can barely make out a couple specks here and there:

This one is a dead level, but I'm re-using some of the ideas/buildings in the current rainy level above:

Posted By: bredebrothers

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/30/06 18:13

Its amazing how you play with the contrast of just white and black...well done we hope that you�ll keep up your work

Posted By: ShoreVietam

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/30/06 20:27

It took me some time to see the difference between the two picture (exept the rain) but the second one really is better!

Those above are really cool, too! oO'

You can play with black and white!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/17/06 10:18

I'm revisiting some old levels to make them work with new code and techniques. I once posted an early version of this hallway, but I don't think I ever bothered to showcase any later versions. I'm going to make any necessary tweaks, and I'll post it when it's finished.

Hopefully, this means my burnout is gone.

Posted By: frazzle

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/17/06 18:13

The same here OB, can't wait to see this finished

Cheers

Frazzle

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/18/06 13:29

Here's an almost complete section of this level. The pictures on the right are about the only thing left other than tedious lighting/shading balance(for example that floor color is too close to that of the bottom section of the wall...I'll lighten it one shade). I'm moving down the hallway, so the shot from last post will get the clutter treatment like this new one. It probably won't be as messy as this part.

Posted By: Towelie

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/19/06 04:21

I love the look of your game, I've said it many times and I'll say it again.
I have a question I never asked, what kind of game is it?

Posted By: TheExpert

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/19/06 09:12

It has lot of style

cool game like this one :
game
made with Torque , but can be done with any 3D engine.

i liked Killer 7 on gamecube , very original and lot of style.

Keep it up

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/21/06 12:31

@TheExpert: I know I give you a hard time (as do a lot of us), but you still took the time to comment. Thanks.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/22/06 09:37

I made these per a request for someone else, but I'll go ahead and post these here for those who are interested. This is 4 different angles from the latest build of the hall captured at 1600x1200 and with all advanced graphical settings cranked on my GeForce 7600 GS. It destroys the framerate (about 17 fps in the Superintendent shot), but it's only for show. A few small changes and tweaks and the first additions to the hallway proper are shown Any little white dots you see are dust particles that glitter in the light:

http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/hall03.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/hall04.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/hall05.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/hall06.jpg

EDIT: No video for now. Too much hassle right now and not enough time.

Posted By: Captain_Kiyaku

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/22/06 09:41

great shots, can't wait to see the video. I really love that style and would love to play an adventure in this style. Hope you go on with it.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 12/24/06 10:12

I've posted a job:

http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=715133

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 02/24/07 23:57

This is a FYI post...

If you haven't already noticed, there's a 2nd Disenfranchised thread here:

http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/729519/

Because of the large number of posts in this one, I decided to showcase models in another, more narrowly focused place. It will only be used for this, and there should be some new characters to showcase in the next couple weeks provided my model maker isn't busy with other projects (he gets to work at his convenience with an "I'm in no hurry" policy

).

I also have an animator/rigger who will begin work on animations sometime in March. Like the model maker, he will be extended the same no hassle/hurry courtesy, and I will showcase AVIs as I deem appropriate in the other thread. The test animations using "canned" animations were very nice, so I have high hopes for this part of the process. He has already been given a lengthy list of animations to work on (see below), so this should be fun.

Quote:

base - just a standing pose
walk
run
endrun - to play if player is running and then user completely stops moving..keeps the player from abruptly stopping
idle1 - crossing arms while swaying a bit, perhaps a slight stance change, too
idle2 - looking around by turning head
idle3 - light up a cigarette, take a couple puffs, drop cigarette on ground and extinguish with foot

All of the following motions will use a "prop" or part of a level like stairs and doors. A standardized
stair size, doorknob height, and the height for table tops and other surfaces will be used.

upstairs - ascending stairs
downstairs - descending
opendoor
pickup - like picking something up off of a table
sittingdown - in a chair
standingup - from a chair
sittinginchair
takedrink - from a glass or bottle
holdobject - forearm elevated
putincoat - putting an object inside overcoat
layonback - laying on a bed, head slightly propped up because of a pillow, legs/feet crossed, hands behind head

My next area of concern is overhauling the UI and save/load system. I have very rudimentary systems in place, and I may "outsource" the creation of the save/load system. I have already contacted one of our best programmers, and I will make a decision on outsourcing in the coming days. I hope to have a suitable UI by that time, as well. The plan is a minimal UI, so finding the perfect way is important.

Finally, as always I'm torn between implementing direct control vs. point and click using Intense Pathfinding. A compromise would be to implement both, however there are some minor issues with Intense P that would need to be addressed if that were to be used. The main issue is being able to click on non-horizontal surfaces and having the player walk to the nearest legal spot. At present, this can't be done, and Larry mentioned that perhaps this may be addressed after Intense X is out. I'm not going to base my entire control scheme on whether or not this happens, so direct control is the final choice for now. I will provide both character- and camera-relative options, so there should be something there for anyone.

Until next time..

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/21/07 08:42

If anyone is wondering why this thread is near the top but has no recent post, well it's because I deleted the new one quickly. I'm going to go ahead and restate it, though.

I'm taking the game to the Wintermute Engine. I want to head in a more "traditional" adventure game direction via 2.5D gaming, and WME is designed for this out of the box.

I will continue to help people out on this forum, and I may post an occasional update here as something more substantial and concrete comes about.

I will also continue to maintain A6 and will most definitely update to A7 when the time comes. I've been here since late 1999, so I'm not going anywhere. There will an Orange Brat game made with 3DGS someday, and it will probably have something to do with a future The Disenfranchised title given it's designed in a kind of Twilight Zone kind of way, so it allows for more stories to be told and in different kinds of ways. I'd also like to do a Visual Novel game using the Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine someday, too (see recent Tools forum post), but that one will have to wait.

Until next time....

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/21/07 14:27

What will happen to your levels and the other things you already done in 3DGS?
Can you use them in the other engine?

EDIT: I know, it is ridiculous, that I'm depressed, only because that you and your promising gameproject are changing the engine, but... its kinda sad...
...
I was in a better mood before I read your post!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/21/07 15:38

The models Dan/Andvari are working on will be usable. The level designs themselves won't go to waste. I'll just have to recreate in Blender and export the hidden scene geometry with the Blender -> WME plugin. Cinema4D can export the special kind of 3DS that are usable by WME, too.

..or..

I may try some experiments with WED and A6 and taking screen captures from the realtime levels. This would require me to make them a bit more detailed and I'd probably have to use a per pixel light shader to get better shadows and lighting. There's a game called Limbo of the Lost that used both 3DGS and WME in this manner, but I don't think they took the shaders route. Anyway, framerate wouldn't be an issue given they'd be stills.

The only problem with that is that you need the hidden geometry for walking planes and collision for the 3D models to walk around in and for stencil shadow casting. WED exports 3DS, so hopefully that can be opened in Blender and then re-exported out. All I'd need is the simpler collision geometry and not the detailed visible level. I'd have to place some dummy blocks in there and replace with cameras and lights (once in Blender) that WME will use.

I don't know if it will work, but I'll try. Level creation in WED is much easier for me. And, you never know..I could always come back here with it. Fortunately, we have a Blender to MDL7 plugin and A7/WED will convert mesh to blocks(or whatever magic it's supposed to do), so no lost ground if that were to happen.

Posted By: Matt_Coles

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/22/07 06:16

I'd like to know as well as this has been one of my favourite game projects I've seen on this site. Wintermure looks very interesting and I'm working on an adventure game but have to decide etween Wintermure or 3dgs 6

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/22/07 07:05

@Matt: A6 is a solid engine for adv. games, and there are plenty of realtime adv. out there. 2.5D games can be done with A6, but there's some work involved to do it, and for me it isn't worth it; thus the switch to something that does it out of the box. Of course, if I knew of a way to pull it off in an easily reproducible manner, I'd stick with A6/A7.

I suppose you could do it with Blender and vent's MDL7 exporter. You would build your level and create a render. You'd then add in the hidden collision hulls and export only that. It would simply be a matter of slapping the render on the side of a block, placing it the correct distance away from the camera, and placing the collision hull so that all of the geometry lines up correctly with the background. The problem, though is dealing with parts of the background that the player can walk behind. You'd have render out a separate sprite and place it in the appropriate place in the level away from the camera and still line up correctly with the background. That's the tricky part, and it can be a hassle.

Sorry, I'm depressing everyone.

I'd say my own personal 3DGS fave is still Adventure in Pocia. Everyone should try that out at least once. I learned a lot from that's project's code.

http://zio.echoshift.net/?page_id=5

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 09:21

As many of you are already aware....I am both an imbecile and a moron. And, worse, yet I am an indecisive, burnt out, wannabe game designer with game as art ambitions and strong opinions regarding this and that and everything in between.

Now, with that bit of sarcasm out of the way....

I'm back where I belong. There's nothing wrong with where I went, but my momentary lapse in judgment has now passed, so for the second time I will continue on with this bugger using 3DGS.

Posted By: EX Citer

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 09:27

Welcome back! The female brain is indeed a mysterium.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 09:51

I do dabble in a bit of cross dressing (I'm kidding) and have been called Republican scum, but I don't think I've ever been accused of being female before. LOL

EDIT: I just checked...it's all still there....

Posted By: Germanunkol

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 13:03

... you're just talking about the files for the game, right? and your 3dgs version, off course? ^^

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 13:16

I'm glad that you stay on Acknex 6/7/42/whatever

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 03/23/07 14:55

No, actually there's nothing wrong with WME. It's an excellent engine. I just have invested too much time and resources into the 3DGS version. Plus, I'm so familiar and comfortable with it that it would be stupid to scrap it.

It was an odd week (month actually).

Now, I'm trying to figure out how to integrate my player movement code into Intense Pathfinding, so I don't have to use the templates that comes with it. I've tried this before and failed. This is my weak area. I'm also working on UI, but I keep coming up with designs that look more like 90s design and Se7en art then 1940s Noir.

EDIT: I've managed to integrate IP into it, but it's not 100% stable. In fact, it's more like 50%. He turns and moves but there's no physics, friction, or gravity, so no stairs or ramps, yet. Animation states/blending are broken, too.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 04/08/07 22:44

Control style....

I have a pretty good direct control mechanic implemented into the title. If you want to experience it then click in Master List in my signature and d/l the first thing on the list. I can't recall what it's defaulted to, but that is one of several schemes. You'll have to adjust some VARs to use the rest. Of course, I'm not using a behind the player camera.

Anyway, I've managed to half-ass implement a point and click solution based off of Intense Pathfinding. It's working but not a full implementation quite yet. This leads me to what will be most likely be the method used in the final product.

It's basically a 3rd person version of the Myst style method. In those games it's 1st person, but you click on hotspots and a video clip plays that transitions you to the next node (in old school Myst it actually faded out and faded in to the next "room").

Well, I'm not doing that, I'm keeping it real time. You will not be able to directly control the character. You aren't going to be able to directly move him to an arbitrary spot. I don't see the point in doing this given it's not an action game. I'm more concerned with storytelling and presentation.

The player will be presented with a number of hotspots including places to go (exits) and interactive objects. If you click on an object, you will either be presented with a description (if it's the Look option) or the player will walk to it and interact with it in some way. If you click on an "exit" he will walk that way and go to the next room or another part of the existing one (the camera will follow or there will be a quick cut depending on the specifics of that camera).

This is nothing new in 3rd person adventures, but it isn't necessary common in modern 3D and 2.5D games (more prevalent in old school 2D). I thought of this scheme a long time ago, but I recently replayed The Adventures of Willy Beamish (now that old school) and it uses this setup. I like it, and it eliminates a lot of potential problems. My target tolerates direct control but mostly prefers P&C. Intense Pathfinding is great, however it has a few quirks, and I don't have the knowledge to fix it up. This is a compromise and eliminates a few problems that could come up with collision detection and the like, and I'm fine with it. I know there will be some bitching about this, but this is how it's going to be.

BTW, I posted a couple new characers hots in the other thread....

http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/729519/

Dan is working on the first female character...my femme fatale more or less. Andvari is slaving away on animations. There are going to be a lot of animations, and I'm bound and determined to make him hate me and that character (just kidding) by the time I'm through.

Posted By: LarryLaffer

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 04/10/07 06:50

Hey Orange Brat,

I just happened to stample accross your thread, and see you're having some I.P. problems.. I actually remember you asking for a way to detect if the point clicked is walkable or not, and find a compromise in the lattest case..

I've played around it a bit back then and didn't found any straight-forward solution, but still it's a pretty easy problem to fix and i'll do it soon as I've promised you. It's just been a really busy year for me, and I had to set up my priorities straight

Nevertheless, I intend to add a lot of adventure features to one of the advanced editions of IntenseX(commercial or pro) if you're interested, like intense dialogues, point and click movement(with that I.P. problem fixed), probably an inventory, and other stuff that could hopefully make adventure making easier, if not completely programming-free using A6/A7.. So, although i can't promise you a specific date yet, i will have that done sometime for sure, if you want to make specific plans about your game around it..

To cut this short, the whole rant was about you keeping the point and click movement for your game. Being a huge adventure fan myself, i could never stand games like Myth or anything that wouldn't let you directly control your character, so hopefully with IntenseX you can change your mind again. I've been following your project for a long time now and i'm really interested to see some first implementations on it, just like you've initially designed it, without programming limitations and whatnot.

By the by, i wouldn't want to force you into buying anything, if you don't really need any of the extra IntenseX features. After I work on the 3rd person point and click movement feature, i'll update the free Intense Pathfinding product as well, just in case. If I wasn't swamped, i'd work on this today, cause we just don't see projects like adventures and Rts's made with gamestudio very often, and that's just not right...

Cheers!
Aris

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 04/10/07 21:56

Thanks, Larry. "Fixing" IP will be nice for everyone. And, don't worry about forcing me into purchasing...I have the current version and will probably get the more advanced ones, too. I may not require all of what it offers right now, but I might one day once I get away from this cursed project.

The original Disenfranchised has an action component that could easily be reinstated (involves vampires that chase you and can move on walls an ceiligns), so it would come in handy for that if I went back that way.

Oops, I just gave something away....

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/14/07 11:16

I'm not exactly sure where I stand right now. I'm not sure if my modeler and animator are still with me, so this particular part of the project is uncertain at the moment. EDIT: My modeler is still with me.

I'm really wanting to explore the possibility of what I call a 2.75D game. It's the combination of a realtime world and prerendered and/or hand drawn art. It different from a 2.5D game or at least an evolved version of it.

Here's the basic concept behind it.

You have your realtime level as you always do. Within the world are a series of parallel planes that face the camera. The artwork is mapped onto these planes. The camera can still move around in the world, however it has to be a cinematic camera like I've been using. Each level is basically a series of layers of artwork, and everything must be designed around the pre-scripted camera moves to insure it looks right and to eliminate any dead spots where there's not artwork shown. It's certainly something that most likely requires storyboarding and advanced planning. Characters would remain realtime.

Here's an example of what it could look like. The zooming in of the camera and the depth of field type effects are something I'd definitely explore (although using non-shader means):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beKzH7Ngpoc&mode=related&search=

Anyway, that's what I'm wanting to get into these days. I suppose it's a form of Disney's "Deep Canvas."

Posted By: JibbSmart

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/15/07 05:29

as long as it gets done

i really want to see you make this!

julz

Posted By: Error014

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/15/07 11:23

Sounds like an interesting concept, although it will probably require lots and lots of tweaking. If you can pull it off it will look amazing, though.

Can't wait to see more of it, keep us posted!

I'm looking forward to play this! After Hotel Dusk, I'm eager for more adventure and great stories

(Btw, have you played Hotel Dusk? Characters are also black and white, amazing style, great game - although many won't like it because it has "NO GUNS LOLZ"

)

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/15/07 15:18

Yes, Hotel Dusk was the first DS game I bought. I loved the style, and I'd like to create something like that some day. Another game using the technique I described in my previous post is A Vampyre Story. Check out the screens here and imagine these backgrounds broken up into layers:

http://www.vampyre-story.com/

Posted By: Nems

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/16/07 07:08

Heya OB,

Good to see this thread back again.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/17/07 09:12

Me too because it means I might be working on it regularly again. I should have a new model to showcase sometime in the next week.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/19/07 15:00

I forgot all about this until a discussion in another thread, but click on the upper left thumbnail inside the link below (called Underground). This is the 2.75D style in action:

http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/gallery/musicvideos.shtml

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/26/07 04:50

Here's the latest BBQ-flavored update Spam�...

Assuming no snags occur, I'm now an A6 Pro owner (via a sale from a previous owner). This means I can release resourced demos whenever I need to. Because A7 supports 4 bones per vertex FBX format, I'll eventually update to the next version, but I'm just happy to have A6 Pro finally.

I've contacted another forum member regarding art asset contribution for the 2.75D prototype tech demo I'm working on. They haven't gotten back with me, but I hope they have time to at least help out on the demo. If they accept, I'll design the level and lay in some prototype art, and they'll create the final art based off of this. I'll upload this demo and sit back and hope some of the few thousand viewers of this thread will respond with some feedback.

If the demo is a success (based on both user feedback and how I feel about the work flow and overall execution of the demo), I hope they accept my offer to come aboard to do the art for the actual game. The tech demo level will most likely be featured in the game, as well since I don't see a reason to waste time creating something that will serve no other purpose other than that of a tech demo.

I'm also going to implement WordPress blog software for the Orange Brat website. I like my artsy site, currently, but I'd rather have a site that is more standardized and easier to maintain these days. I have no time table or deadline for this implementation, so when it's done I suppose.

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/26/07 09:30

Sounds extremely good! I'm eagerly awaiting this! And I guess thousands of other forum users do too!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/26/07 15:46

It'll probably be a development blog. I have two URLs..one for orangebrat and one for thedisenfranchised. The blog will go to the brat site, the other one will be the actual game(s) site.

I haven't messed around with the shadow code so it only works with one source. For those who are scratching their heads, with the help of Error, my stencil shadows alpha is dependent on the distance from dynamic lights (and is non-shaders based). So, if I'm standing next to a light, the shadow will be dark, if I start walking away from it it will fade and eventually fade out. However, it only works with one light, at the moment, but Error provided some pseudo-code that might make it work with the closest light. The downside of it is is that every shadow will fade in a level, so it has limited use.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/26/07 23:05

Here's an example of what the shadow code does. Note the player's shadow:

http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/shad1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/game/shad2.jpg

Posted By: ambe

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/27/07 00:46

looks nice -- and that works realtime ? no lag?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 05/27/07 01:16

There's no lag on my end but I have an advanced card. The discussion on how to use this is here including the code:

http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/sho...true#Post749477

The action in that post is just for the fading code. The actual light code is not there, but that's basic enough. Here's my dynamic light script. It perhaps contains a lot of crap not needed by everyone, but I use all of it for one reason or another.

Code:


// uses: localKillSwitch, lightBroken, castToggle, beginOn, startDelay, distToggle, alwaysOn, minDist, maxDist
// uses: randomColorRange, redColor, blink, randBlink, shortDelay, longDelay, range, rangeModifier, lightningOn
action light2
{
   while(!player) { wait(1); }
   var tempShortDelay;  var tempLongDelay;
   my.passable = on;
   if(my.castToggle == on)
   {
     my.cast = on;
   }
   else
   {
     my.cast = off;
   }
   if(my.beginOn == on) //light object is turned on
   {
	if(my.startDelay > 0) //delay before turning on
   	{
		wait(-my.startDelay);
        }
     my.invisible = off;
   }
   else
   {
   	my.invisible = on; //light object begins turned off
   }
   
   my.skill11 = 100 * pow(my.minDist, 4) / (pow(my.maxDist, 2) - pow(my.minDist, 2)) + 100 * pow(my.minDist, 2);
   my.skill12 = -100 * pow(my.minDist, 2) /( pow(my.maxDist, 2) - pow(my.minDist, 2));
   
   while(1)
   {
  		if(globalKillSwitch == 0 && my.localKillSwitch == 0)
  		{
  			if(my.beginOn == on) //light object is turned on
  			{
	    		     if(-my.startDelay > 0) //delay before turning on
   	 		     {
	   	  		wait(my.startDelay);
   	 		     }
    			          my.invisible = off;
	   	        }
   		        else
   		        {
    	  		     my.invisible = on; //light object begins turned off
   		        }
    			if((vec_dist(player.x, my.x) < my.distToggle && my.alwaysOn == off) || my.alwaysOn == on) //light remains on while player is closer than my.skill3
    			{  
                                if(my.randomColorRange == on) //random color and range
   	  			{
  	   				my.lightrange = max(random(my.range), my.range/my.rangeModifier); //make sure rangeModifier > 0
  	   				if(my.lightrange == 0) { my.lightrange = 1; }
       	   	                        my.red = int(random(my.redColor)); 
               	                        if(my.red == 0) { my.red = 1; }
				}
  	  			else //constant color and range
  	  			{
	  	   			my.lightrange = my.range;
  	   				my.red = my.redColor;
  	  			} 
	     			    my.green = my.red;
   	  			    my.blue = my.red; 
	  			    if(my.blink == on) //blink on
     				    {
      				        if(my.randBlink == on) //random blinking
	     				{
   				   	    tempShortDelay = random(my.shortDelay);
   				   	    if(tempShortDelay == 0) { tempShortDelay = 0.1; }
   				   	    wait(-tempShortDelay); //short delay
       				 	    my.lightrange = 0;
       				 	    if(my.beginOn == on) //turn object off
       				 	    {
        					my.invisible = on;
  	    				    } 
  	    				 	tempLongDelay = random(my.longDelay);
  	    				 	if(tempLongDelay == 0) { tempLongDelay = 0.1; }
  	    					wait(-(tempShortDelay + tempLongDelay)); //long delay
  	    					my.invisible = off;  //turn object back on
  	   				}
  	   				else  //constant blinking
  	   				{
	  	    				wait(-my.shortDelay); //short delay
   	    				        my.lightrange = 0;
      	 				        if(my.beginOn == on)
       					{
        					my.invisible = on; //turn object off
  	    			    }
       				   
                                         wait(-my.longDelay); //long delay
       				         //my.startDelay = 0;
       				         my.invisible = off;  //turn object back on
      				}
     			}
     				if(my.lightningOn == on && dynBool == 1)
    				{
      				    my.lightrange = 0;
  		   		} 	
  		   		
    		   		   mat_shadow.alpha = my.skill11 / (clamp(vec_dist(my.x,player.x), my.minDist, my.maxDist) * clamp(vec_dist(my.x, player.x),my.minDist,my.maxDist)) + my.skill12;  
  	 		}
    			else //out of range...light off
    			{
     				my.lightrange = 0;
     				my.invisible = on;
    			}	
    	}
    	else
    	{
    		my.lightrange = 0;
    		if(my.lightBroken == on)
   		{
   			//ent_morph(my, "whatever");
   			//break;
   		}
   		else
   		{
    			my.invisible = on;
    		}
    	}
    wait(1);
   }
}

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/02/07 08:44

EDIT: Sorry about the code above screwing up the page formatting. I hate that.

This isn't related to the game, but it shows that there are other Noir inspired games in the works. This one is called The Late Call and is being made with the Unity Engine. I just signed up for the beta, so I hope I get chosen.

http://www.bydesigngames.com/tlc/index.html

The screens are from an alpha build, but the new "3d" screenshot is new and interactive. Kind of an interesting way to display a screenshot. My game and their game are apples and oranges (although my game used to be like this one in regards to gameplay), but I present it for comparison's sake. There are lots of other Noir games in development (L.A. Noire which will be published by Rockstar, Sadness on the Wii are a couple of high profile examples, and of course there's Grim Fandango, Discworld Noir, and the Max Payne games if you want to look back at high profile Noir games from history).

Posted By: mpdeveloper_B

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/02/07 14:54

very nice shadow effect, i still want to play this game OB .... hurry up and finish it ok?

just kidding

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/03/07 07:27

It's going to be a long time, but I want to get it finished during the A7 life cycle. I drew up a first screen today with some layer info. I'll expand this a bit and then think [for a couple months]

about doing final art. I'm placing technical info on the rough art, so I won't have to worry about what goes where when the times comes. This will be an all new area never presented in screens before. It's the dock area.

Some inspiration...

I'd love to have a 2.0 shader that could make this style possible. That'd be grand. I suppose appropriate textures and a per pixel light shader and shadowmapping would be appropriate, though. Wait a minute, I'm painting everything.

Posted By: sPlKe

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/03/07 09:56

grim fandagiro it is?

anyway, as you already know, i like your game. its sad that you dont give more shots and info on it. but the style is great...

i wont say anything more because you know how i feel

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/03/07 10:20

Well if you want more info you can always ask here. I'll answer questions I feel I am qualified to answer, although I won't promise to answer everything or give away all my secrets.

Yes, those are Grim Fandango concept art pictures. You can find more at:

http://www.grimfandango.net/
http://www.ninthworld.com/ - click on the "Where did it go?" image

Posted By: Ambassador

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/03/07 12:47

Humm to achieve that kind of effect you would need global illumination pre calculated and a nose shader doing to crispiness effect. Though a shader and shadow mapping might be enough to produce acceptable results.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/03/07 22:24

I already have the noise thing down, although it's not a shader. It looks every bit as good as what a shader would do plus it's faster and a very small mem footprint given it's a dds texture. Here's the code (as used in the game, there's a shortened version somewhere on this forum I posted recently). The code involving the local vars is not being used because I can't get it to work right. It's supposed to reposition the noise entity when the camera's arc is adjusted, so the grain appears consistent, but I've never gotten it to do what it's supposed to to right (compliments to HeelX for this code). It certainly adjusts it, but the entity is never the appropriate distance from the camera, so depending on the arc, the entity is too close or too far (thus you can see the edges of the sprite) from the camera.

Code:

function filmgrainRefresh ()
{
	var camPercentage;
	var arcMax = 80;
	var arcMin = 40;
	var maxX = 600;
	var minX = 450;
	
	while (grainToggle == 1) 
	{
	    if(blackpanel_pan.visible == off)
   	    {
   		filmGrain.visible = on;
		filmGrain.u += random(512) * time_step;
		filmGrain.v += random(512) * time_step;
		filmGrain.alpha = 12 + random(5) * time_step;
		//camPercentage = (camera.arc / (arcMax - arcMin)); 
		//filmGrain.x = maxX - (camPercentage * (maxX - minX));
		wait(-0.09);
	    }
	    else
	    {
	 	filmGrain.visible = off;
		wait(1);
	    }
	  
       }
}

If for some reason I end up sticking will all 3D levels, I'll consider a 2.0 softshadow/per pixel light shader at some point. It'd definitely be an A7 project if I did that given the blocks are treated differently, so I don't have to construct everything from actual models (from what I understand)(I like/love WED).

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/04/07 12:30

@OrangeBrat: As far as I can see you can achieve this effect since V6.60 also with panels which would be unaffected by the camera.arc. If you are interested, call me.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/04/07 14:48

The film grain effect is fine (and I don't use that arc code anymore) but if there's a camera.arc independent way to do it with the new version then I'll experiment with it. I used to use panels for this effect, but shifting the .u and .v of a dds sprite is a HUGE memory saver and achieves the same effect.

I have house inspectors to deal with in the next hours, but if you see this before hearing from me via PM, let me know what you have in mind; otherwise I'll PM you when I have time to do so.

Posted By: HeelX

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/05/07 06:23

Implemented in V6.60, panels are repeating themselves, if the size_x and size_y variables are exceeding the real size of the bmap.

So, the trick would be that you use,.. let us say, a 1024x1024 bitmap (you could also use a 1024x786 image, but I did'nt tested if tiling is also applied on arbitrary panel bitmaps, I guess not). I would double the size_x and size_y values so that it is de facto 2048 in width and height (but tiled!).

When you adjust the pos_x and pos_y variable between -1024 and 0, the panel would'nt leave out of the screen (assumed that you use a 1024x786 resolution) but it looks like you would do an UV shifting (indeed, if you place it on -1024/-1024 it would look like it has'nt been shifted). If you now apply the resolution independent scaling stuff I told you once before, it would be the same solution as the previous one - without the use of entity panels.

You can achieve this effect also with lower sized bitmaps, but this would require a bit more coding (if it isn't fixed coded; I love generic coding).

regards, Christian

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/06/07 13:19

I forgot about the new tiling panel feature. I'll have to investigate that, now and see what I can come up with.

I'm going to search Youtube for some video influences next. Image based influence can only show so much, but if I can find the right clips, I'll post them soon.

I'm trying to get a Wacom Intuos3 6x8 graphics tablet right now off eBay. That'll help me out with the painting side of things. I also picked up a copy of ArtRage 2 for $20. It's kind of like Dogwaffle without the huge number of features or animation support. I'll probably get DW sometime, too but it costs $119 for PD Pro 4.1 which is what I'll get. Plus, I've got to upgrade from A6 Pro to A7 Pro here before too long...another $299.

Money to spend or money to burn....which is it really?

Intuos3: http://www.wacom.com/intuos/6x8.cfm
ArtRage 2: http://www.ambientdesign.com/artrage.html
PD Pro 4.1: http://www.thebest3d.com/pdpro/index.html

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/06/07 14:56

Video influences:

The Third Man

This is one of the more influencial sources in regards to visual style. It's considered one of the great Films Noir ever, and many consider it the best British film ever made. It's one of my top 5 favorite movies. Here are three of the best scenes...the first shows why I want big shadows. Also, the lighting in the entire movie is exactly the same as what I've been showcasing for years. This scene is considered one of the greatest reveals ever in any movie. The 2nd is more for the performance (both spoken and unspoken) and the brilliant writing. This entire scene is also considered one of the great movie scenes, and you'll find it at the very top of a lot of lists. The cuckoo clock speech at the end is definitely at the top of most. The 3rd and final clip is the very end of the movie, and the use of the long shot and the tone fits in pretty nicely with my game. This is all pretty major spoiler territory, so if you've never seen it and plan on it, I would stay away. These clips will ruin the entire movie:

The Big Shadow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOm4i7o3SeI
The Ferris Wheel and the Cuckoo Clock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0N1mib5_JU
The Long Goodbye: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVFNFHLMNBk

The Lady from Shanghai

Here's another Orson Welles movie both as star and director. A remake is currently being made, but it'll never touch this classic. This is the famous funhouse/hall of mirrors ending and Hollywood legend says the crazy funhouse part was originally 3 or 4 times longer before the studio stepped in and trimmed it to what it is here. It's ashame that footage probably got destroyed 60 years ago. This clip gives it all away, so stay away if you don't want it all spoiled.

Mirror, mirror, on the wall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_p66HjTweo

The Man Who Wasn't There

This is definite the main influence for both visuals and the way people talk. Here's the trailer:

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5iIDzGpOw

The Big Sleep

Bogey is my favorite actor, and this is probably my favorite Bogart movie and Film Noir for that matter. Here's an 8-minute montage of the "babes" of The Big Sleep that all find him irresistible. The dialogue in this film is the other major influence on The Disenfranchised (the jargon coupled with the snappy delivery and tone).

"A Suitable Ending I Think:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIaS2J5ZoSQ

P.S. Here's a whole crapload of Bogey clips...some Noir some not: http://home.mchsi.com/~filmclips/
The one I isolated below reminds me of the back and forth banter of my main character and the main female character from The Disenfranchised (the humor, innuendo, banter, fast paced speaking, etc...and that's Bogie's real life wife Lauren Bacall playing Vivian)
...sorry a RealPlayer codec will be needed to see it and it's from The Big Sleep: http://www.bremenonline.org/bogart/vivian-broadband.htm

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/15/07 03:59

It took me a while, but I got used to the tablet finally. I like using it with the Dogwaffle 4.1 demo, so I'm definetely going that route. Art Rage 2 is nice for realistic oil painting effects, but is a bit too limiting. DW simply allows much more freedom, plus you have the animation tools if you need them (which I might...I have ideas as always).

BTW, it looks like I helped shape the future of a HUGE adventure game (it is self-proclaimed the world's largest adv. game and this is probably true). This thing has thousands of screens, but the creator is changing styles much like I am. My contribution was minimal (which is ironic given the style)...see the June 14th posting:

http://lesmisgame.blogspot.com/
Game page with older screens and plenty of info: http://www.lesmisgame.com/

Posted By: Nems

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/15/07 04:41

Good one OB, its great some one actually credited a GS user rather than just purusing the forums and stealing ideas (even though it was thru another forum).
His style looks interesting but not as nice as The Disenfranchised or Limbo to me.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised... - 06/15/07 05:22

He's intentionally mixing styles. The new, more elegant approach he's pursuing (ESP. the super-minimal character sprites) is pretty bold and will turn some people off. It's going to be free and the first of several books he's turning into massive adv. games. Dante's The Divine Comedy is next. Somewhere on his page or within one of the links he outlines the entire plan.

Posted By: Orange Brat

The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2007 - 09/07/07 10:56

I've been silent for a while. I've been very busy at the day job (and consistently behind....i.e. stressed out and tired)), so there has been very little movement on The Disenfranchised. My animator is MIA (I drove him mad I think

'tis a shame, the AVI tests I was getting from him were knockouts); however I have a new one who is going to do some rigging for me and play with the Truebones BVH files that I eventually send his way. I will Showcase some animations one of these days or years.

Here's my newest model from Dan. She may undergo some tweaks eventually (more detail on her torso), but she looks like my source (which follows the model image). She's a bit "bright" but keep in mind this was captured from MED, that the A7 engine will shade everything accordingly:

This one took a while to get because he's been busy on other important matters outside of the industry (and good for him...he's about 10 years older than me and what he's doing or has already done is fantastic. I know of one other member a bit older than him that did the same thing and what they did is paying off).

I will use him again IF he's up to it, but my recent move and marriage has taken some getting used to (the move not the marriage

). The new financial responsibilities will ultimately slow down the model creation process, but I've filled him in on all of this.

One last bit of "new" info. I have abandoned the 2.75D technique I was so excited about trying. As with my flip flop from Wintermute back to 3DGS, the issue comes down to time and the amount of work I've put into the full 3D version. I would certainly like to use that technique in a future title (if there is one and should I live that long), but it isn't going to happen this go round, although I could perhaps use it in conjunction with the full 3D in some way but only in an appropriate manner. There are hundreds of examples of games of all calibers incorporating 2D elements to simulate 3D for framerate/memory savings, so this particular use is nothing new.

Anyway, that's where I stand at the moment. Now, that I've made a firm decision, I hope to fire up WED and get back to work on this wannabe piece of vaporware.

As always, questions and comments are welcomed.

Posted By: ShoreVietam

Re: The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2 - 09/07/07 14:03

Reeeeally nice, but the head is a bit too big if you campare both pictures!
The rest seems to be well formed.

Posted By: frazzle

Re: The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2 - 09/07/07 18:47

Nice to see an update again OB, I'm really curious when the game will ever be finished but I guess the more we'll have to wait, the better it gets

Great model, reminds of the female protagonist from 'Casa Blanca' which is a positive extra

Cheers and good luck

Frazzle

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2 - 09/08/07 17:20

I'm not at home right now and can't recall if it's above the knees or not. Maybe, it is and this is and you can't tell because of the angle. Actually, now that I look what she's wearing in the source isn't above the knee. That probably wouldn't have been allowed in the 40s due to "The Code," or it could have just been the style.

Posted By: BlueBeast

Re: The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2 - 09/08/07 18:03

The model does look bright.... But it looks like the setting in MED for 'Texture + Gouraud' shading isn't even on... just flat shading.

Sure it will have shading in-game... but im just explaining why it may look that way in MED. Because you can have the shading in MED too

- Jason

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: September 07th, 2 - 09/08/07 20:04

I figured it out..I had my DLLs set to the DX9 instead of the DX8a. Do a browser refresh to see the properly shaded version. No matter what I do I cannot get the DX9 video DLLs to work right in MED or WED. In WED the 3D view has a terrible framerate even with a GeForce 7600 GS 512MB card. DX8 Dlls work perfectly and still provide me with the "DX9 only" features like skins on models and whatever the other DX9 DLL only features were (in WED).

Posted By: Orange Brat

The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/19/07 19:35

Spam on! Not much of an update, but yes this monster is still kicking. I've decided to convert to Lite-C given all the new stuff seems to be for it. This should be.....fun.

There's not much going on on the art front. Everything has been on hold, but I was driving home last night and had a great idea on how to do this 2.75D thing in WED without having to actually draw the level and using sprites for the layers. Many years ago I created a level that was made up of 3D blocks but looked 2D. It's a similar technique that the side scroller developers use to simulate a 2D level, but there's still some 3D faces visible where appropriate(walk planes, ledges, etc). I never showcased any screen shots from that old level, but it was a huge success at the time, and I can't remember why I abandoned it.

Anyway, it's back and that's where this project stands. Spam off!

Posted By: frazzle

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/19/07 19:44

Nice to hear it's still kicking OB

Cheers

Frazzle

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/19/07 20:27

You don't have a screenshot of that old level around, do you?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/19/07 22:39

EDIT: The level isn't untextured, but it's missing some elements which I'll have to fix via some quick and dirty methods.

I'll probably have to retexture it because I was using WADs and PCX files back then and now I'm using folders and TGA (have been for a while). I also was rather unorganized on that front but everything is in order, now.

Anyway, it's a tiny level that was meant as the back drop for the main menu. I'll see what I can do with it and post something whenever it's done. It's very stylized, even more than what I usually do.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 00:24

Keep in mind, this was never meant to be seen and is just me tinkering with this 2D/3D look about 4 years ago. This is just a the 3D WED window:

The lamp post is waaay out in front of the building, so there's some semi-forced perspective tricks to get some nice parallax scrolling effects when the camera moves around. If you're familiar with how they made those incredible "sets" in the original 1933 King Kong then that will give you an idea. There's also another layer behind the camera in this shot which is what the camera would show if you clicked Options. The camera would glide back. If you clicked Play it moved towards one of the windows where the game would start.

Anyway, most of the visible faces are the camera facing ones. There are a few sides of certain blocks showing (like the side walk sides) but it's mostly simulated 2D. There were also white windows in each of the now empty window spaces.

The huge area of blackness around the level is intentional. This was going to be a stylized level where you only saw what was important and the rest kind of faded out into darkness. It would have been tweaked of course and the level art would have been consistent with whatever you call my usual style. I also attempted to simulate shadows using special blocks with dark textures. You can see this on the lamp post pole and the shadow under the light itself.

Here's a close up of the sidewalk. I was experimenting with simulating a thick and thin line kind of like an ink pen except using blocks:

Anyway, I'm coming back to this technique only this won't involve something I slapped together in less than a couple hours. BTW, those white blocks are just camera controls.

Posted By: Nems

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 00:33

I like the style a lot.

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 00:48

Here's one last content addition, although not created by me. This is a clip from the 1931 film Svengali starring John Barrymore. The camera work and the exterior with all the layering effects in the first half is basically what all this 2.75D hooey boils down to. It looks like a series of 2D layers animated to create the illusion of a 3D world. In actuality this looks like a combination of matte paintings for the extreme background and miniatures for everything else:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnVFZIByQHY

Posted By: frazzle

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 12:54

The sytle you attempt on this game is known by anyone now on this forum but it still looks damn good

Cheers

Frazzle

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 13:18

Great, you can build the different layers as different map entities - no more technical obstacles in the way anymore now!

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/20/07 23:48

That's right....shadow problems I've discusssed in technical forums in the recent past are gone (I hope

). I don't know why in the heck I didn't think of this before. I was heavily inspired by A Vampyre Story in regards to this 2.75G thing, but that's a hand-painted title with 3D characters, so I figured I'd just do the same. However, I'm much faster with WED and the lightmapper is getting an overhaul so all is good for me. BTW, here's the teaser trailer for A Vampyre Story...it has a couple instances of the 2.75D technique between the 30 and 40 second mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpMBmp_nAbg

Here's a collection of screenshots for those who have never seen anything from this game or are unfamiliar with the style. It's all WIP and will undergo a major overhaul at some point (more varied textures where appropriate, conversion to the new construction technique showcased above where appropriate, better construction and design given I've grown since most of this was created, more geometry...those building with no detail in some of the city shots aren't supposed to be that minimalist..I simply never completed them given these were meant as shells to build up later, etc):

Here's something you may have never seen...one of the first serious attempts at creating levels complete with standard.wad textures. One of those levels is featured above in the B&W section; albeit with a lot less portals and better constuction and in the proper style. It took me a month to do it given it was my first stab at it, and the remake took 3 days:

Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/21/07 00:01

Uuuh, don't remember those with the template textures!

Although their light and shadow compositions look very nice!

Finally, we can expect a fast completion of the levels then!?

Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/21/07 00:36

I hope so. Given I only have to worry about certain faces, it should be much faster once I come up with a solid design on paper or in my head.

Those standard.wad levels are many years old (although most of the B&W ones are too). There were other levels that came before and they led to these. I might have the really old ones on a back up somewhere, but they aren't worth dragging out. Maybe, for the final release if I have an extras section.

They stink (including the versions above) but at the time I thought they were great. Shows what I knew then.

Posted By: Scorpion

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 10/21/07 18:19

hey man, thats amazing work...never thought that standart wad can look so good^^
And how you place thelight is also pretty cool...just wait for the radiosity feature!

Posted By: Orange Brat

The Disenfranchised update: June 23rd, 2008 - 06/23/08 23:06

All right, my next phase is to convert the code to Lite-C. This will take some time and will power given I work on a PC all day and rarely feel like working on one at home, but I hope to start on this soon. If anything it will help me get organized on the code front and hopefully eliminate the "disco lights" texture shifting bug I've mentioned in the beta forum and in my Showcase thread. I still haven't narrowed that down. It has to be code related because it doesn't occur if I throw out my code and use the default position. However, it also has to be a bug newly introduced at some point during the A7 lifecycle because it didn't used to do it, and I made no changes to anything between the time it didn't do it and the time it started.

Posted By: lostclimate

Re: The Disenfranchised update: Oct 19 2007 - 06/23/08 23:10

eek, looks so much better in b&w, the lack of detail doesnt show when its in black and white since that becomes the style, but it is a good use of the textures, as low quality as the template textures are. great job.

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