Opinion needed on model

Ok, let me first say, I'm really not a modeler. And certainly not a "character modeler" or a "pro". Modeling really isn't my forte. But we currently don't have a character modeler. Just a couple mechanically oriented modelers who are great with tanks, vehicles, etc.

So, we really need some infantry models for our WWII project so we can get things coded and tested. We're shooting to have a small demo out asap, which we hope can show some initiative and attract more people.

So, I decided to make an attempt at building one. I used a couple other meshes as reference in Maya, to help guide me on basic shape and how to make things fit together in a way that would allow for animation. Helghast's ragdoll test model came in rather helpful, and I'm sure you can see its influence in the head/face (I really liked the construction of the jaw which allows for decent lip/mouth syncing). So I was able to use "snapping" to points and then adjust things, and even built most of it totally from scratch. And this is what I came out with:







Our lead modeler and level designer (who doesn't do characters) says this isn't even close to usable quality. He's hellbent on finding a trained pro who uses Z-Brush. But I really don't see what's wrong with it? Maybe my own inexperience with 3D work? I was hoping to get some 3rd opinions on it. Keep in mind, it's totally unskinned, except the helmet. I just put a color on the face.

Well, thanks for any input. If you think it sucks, go ahead and say it. It's not going to "hurt my feelings", lol. So no need to lie, heheh. It looks better to me than the meshes I've seen in other games, and we're only working on the demo as of now. I'm pretty positive that after we release the demo and some trailers, we should have people flocking to join the effort. So, go ahead and lay it out. I'm eager to hear what you think...

Btw, I know the shading looks a little funny on the upper body/uniform, but it doesn't look like that in the engine. It's just the way maya makes it look with my current lighting.

In case you want some specs:

3138 tris
1592 verts
3801 edges

I should also mention, this game is planned to be massive, so we can't use über high poly models. We're trying to keep things reasonable, and this falls well within our calculated limits. The only real means I see for improvement is some simple tweaking, or increasing polies significantly, which is basically out of the question. After all, he still needs a gun and all his other equipment. And it's possible that you could see up to 100 soldiers, many tanks, aircraft, large towns, artillery, and all sorts of stuff in one scene (with a very strong LOD and mip mapping system of course). Performance is a major concern.

well the shape itself doesnt look too bad, you might want to put another edgeloop in the feet so that you can give them a little more volume in the middle, and either your vertices in the center of the model are not merged, or one side has its normals flipped. other than that the sillouhette is not bad. one thing tho is that you need to make sure joints are set up correctly to be animated right and the way to do that is to make it so when they bend they are neigther jagged or or have a loss of volume. there are a lot ideas, but it's very difficult to do correctly and some people devote there entire job to rigging models. If you want a tutorial on the most simple and effective then here is a small tutorial made by ben mathis. its pretty useful:

Thanks for that image. That IS helpful, as I have only limited experience with animation.

Backface culling is on, so no normals are flipped. You may get the impression that some vertices aren't merged because the left side of his "shirt" are actually extruded a bit, so it looks like a real coat where one side buttons over the other. It will make sense when you see the uniform textured.

Here's what I mean:



See how the "shirt/coat" buttons up? I simply extruded a bit to give it a little depth and make it looks real.

yeah, i see what your saying, it looked like a lighting error, but really its just the extrusion. yeah, just make sure it can animate correctly.

Yeah, still going to need a lot of work. It's hard for me to know exactly how to model his extra gear and stuff. Information can be rather limited and conflicting. Guess I'll have to buy more books, lol. I'm also going to need to do quite a bit of tweaking to make the uniform look authentic. This is just his basic "form", if you will. I think I can handle UV mapping him, but the skinning seems daunting. I'm worried I won't be able to make a realistic looking skin, especially for the face. Never skinned characters before. Only stuff like planes and tanks, and some simple things.

We really need more people to do things like this, because even if I was a "pro", that's still less time I get to spend programming. :P It's just hard to find people willing to work with you, as most people have projects of their own anyway, and the old "Hi, we're making a game..." pitch is rarely taken seriously, lol. I think our future is bright though. When we're done with this demo, we should be able to get people to take it seriously enough to join in. Beyond this, we're going for an MMO version covering virtually all of North Africa's battlefields, and probably Europe next. If A7 can't meet our needs at that point, I'd gladly license something like the new S.O.W. engine. It will have to start small, but once we get a little subscriber base, we'll have some more money to hire more people and expand the horizons. I have 100% confidence our game will be better than WWIIOL, which is a relatively poorly made MMO that still has a good subscriber base (due to the total lack of WWII MMOs). We'll probably "steal" most of their customers at first glance, lol. I couldn't say with any true certainly WHEN it will take off, but I'm sure it eventually WILL. All depends on how long it takes to get the workers. We've been planning it for a while, and will pursue our goals till our dying breath.

You're nor a PRo modeler , but what you've done is really great
and could be used in a commercial title
You just need to adjust boots proportions, and perhaps add some wrinckles to pants ?

The difficult part will be texturing

Not bad, to say your new to modelling. It has far too many polys compared to how it looks in my opinion, it looks like a 1000 maybe less. You should make sure you use every poly effectively and get rid of the excess.
Modelling and texturing is something that takes years to learn and become good at, its not something you can instantly learn by reading a book. Keep trying, learning and getting better.
Cheers,
Ryan.

How about posting a wire screenshot?
That would make it a little bit easier to judge the structure of the model and give any hints on how to improve it.

(Note: I won't be able to do so, because I'm no modeller either. But in the past everyone wanted to see a wireframe screenshot)

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I know, it needs some "cleanup" to get rid of excess polies. I really just wanted to know if this was good enough to keep working at, or if I should give up. So I'm glad everyone thinks it can be used with some more work and improvement.

I'll also post some wireframe shots so you can see how geometry fits together. I'm just going to take my time with this, and try not to rush. If I get in a hurry, I'll end up spoiling it, lol.

@ ryan:

No, 1000 polies could never look like that. The helmet alone is close to 600 something. I'd have to double check. I built the helmet a while back, and spent a lot of time on it. That was as low as it could go without making it look fake and boxy. Our vehicle modeler is EXTREMELY picky, and even he approved my helmet.

Very good, for a beginner.
But the foot is kinda flat.

The upper body is too long compared to the legs.
(The part between hip and neck)

The Helmet must be wider in the front view.
Also try to scale up the head a bit.

The Hand could be a bit bigger.

the whole upper chest-shoulder part should be more muscular,
that guy looks like he did'nt eat for long.

Apart from that it looks quite ok.

I see it as a coat that goes quite low, and relatively baggy pants, in which case it wouldn't be an issue, but if my interpretation isn't what you were going for then Damocles is right.

Decent though.

Jibb

maybe placing a belt would help to see the
correct position of the hips / waiste

The belt-attachments are there, so it cant be a long coat
covering it. (the bags would have to be under the coat then)

Oh yep, I see that. Especially when looking at the images the model is based on, the proportions could use a change.

Jibb

They wore a long coat with a belt around the waist. I know the proportions there are relatively correct. I haven't made a belt or anything yet. The boots are also basically the correct size. German uniforms were a little baggy. I've got some reference material that I can now use to make the uniform look realistic.