Angle of Attack

once again, this is not meant as offense.
but this is nothing more than a tempaltes shooter with basic ugly textures and models from AU.
It fails to impress anyone who knows the Engine.
I am sorry this had to be said...

They don't look like templates man! Not everybody's first shooter looks great. And like he said he's no 2D artist. Some people can't model so they use models from AU, that's what it's for! Give the guy a break he's just starting.

Sorry if I sounded aggressive there, but I didn't think that comment was called for.

I did not use templates to make this... I coded this from scratch (I did not even look at or follow the templates), only using a few tricks I saw in other scripts (3 actually). Even the bullet hole problem I posted I found the solution to myself by taking a different aproach (again my work). As I said before, the screenshots do not show any of the coding. I hope to release a video soon. The level (I admit it's bad) is just a test level and I will not use this in my final game. So are the models. In the end I will use the projects own models. I will do this in one of two ways: I will find a decent modeller or I will learn to model myself.

However, I am going on my summer holidays tomorrow and will not post here for a while. I will take my laptop with me and will therefore continue working, possibly start on AI. I will also refine my storyline (I actually already have it all planned out, I just need to write it down). When I get back (In about a month) I will post a video showing the game's features.

I thank everybody for their help, comments and compliments, and wish everybody happy holidays !

in that case the coding seems really good, but you are far away from being a nice graphics artist, wich is okay.
it took me three years to be at least a little good in level design, and another three to be as good as i am now. and i am by far not even half as good as some others here.

i dont want to insult anyone when i write stuff liek this, but you all must realize that outside of indie development, people dont give a damn why your games are how they are. they want quality for their money, wich is their good right, and if we want to get along with our games in the world outside of indie, we must deliver quality.

lately i realize it even more than a few months before, people tend to overrate things.

coding what you coded completly from scrath is good work. especially sicne youre a beginner. very good work.
i could not do it, to be honest. what you have to do is specify on one thing and get people who specify themselves on another thing. only then you can deliver top notch work^^


just my opinions i hope you understand

edit: BTW it is called ANGEL not angle^^

an angle is something completly different (like camera angle^^)

I liked your work, vartan, being your first game, its very nice.

People, outside of Indie development, really care about theyr money, dogs, children and thigs like this.

Apart from it, you can be sure that people who made unreal or any other game you can imagine, started somewhere in time with very simple projects, and you can be sure your project is far better then many of them ( mine included ).

Put some irregularity, better textures, keep the machinery variation and accuracy, and you will progress this work to a AAA level.

Congrats for your first work.

Alright guys, I'm back from holidays, and the game has been progressing along quite fine. Thanks everybody for the comments. And Carloos what do you mean by irregularity? Do you mean irregularity in the level or in the weapons?

Nevermind a video, I should have a demo soon, but I'll need at least some suitable weapon models (with hands of course). So if anyone can do that don't hesitate to step up. And since people have trouble understanding the name, I'm open to new names... so please, give your ideas.

You know, I might do a modelling contest, and ask the winner to do some models for me... people tend to be more interested when there's competition involved.

I think angle of attack is fine. As long as it's relevant to the game

Hiya.

Just a casual question/observation. It seems you are heavlily into the "realistic recoil and gun effects" part. Not my cup o' tea, but hey. And *why* do I not like "realish based army-type" games? Two reasons.

First, they almost ALWAYS force the player to be the "good guys"...which is fine, except that the "good guys" are always british, american, canadian or possibly french or austrailian. Just for *once* I'd like to be able to pick to be a guy from any 'world contry'. I'd actually find it more entertaining to be on the underdog side fighting the more advanced countries. For example, being a palistinian fighting against the technologically superior israel, or maybe an african fighting against the us-armed warlords, etc. Hell, even to just be able to pick 'either' side and play them. You know of the board game "Axis and Allies"? Something like that would be more entertaining for me.

Second, the 'realism' in these games tends to be..well, *completely* unrealistic in every sense other than "Oooo...look at that [insert some gun] model! It even has the [insert gun-nut obscure knowledge about said firearm]!". So, if you are focusing on 'realism', then at least put a setting on for "realistic damage"; in other words, if you are shot 4 times by an AK-47, you die (or at least it's "Game Over"). Too close to a granade blast? Game Over. Shot by a shotgun at point blank range? Game Over. Stabbed 3 times and kicked in the groin? Game Over. Otherwise, well, what the hell is the point of "realistic recoil and gun accuracy"? Seriously? Who cares if it's still better to just run accross a field, guns ablazin', while 14 "bad guys" (viet cong, US marines, whomever) shoot at you...you have 92 Armor and a health of 100...those bullets will bearly hurt you. Get up close and shoot; hard to miss from 3' away.

Sorry if that sounds like a rant, but as a game fan, I'm sick and tired of all these games that claim "realisic combat", yet the player can still get shot 14 times, stabbed twice, blown up by a pair of grenades and step on a land mind before they finally 'die'...yet the "bad guys" (usually some third world country or nebulous comunists/dictatorship) die after two flesh wounds.

(PS: Sorry again for the ranting...it just really bugs me).

I've got a long storyline, and putting it from any country changes the storyline completely. And yes, I do agree that games that say they have realism actually give you stronger players. But here's the issue. You can't go too real, or else it ruins the fun. Players enjoy realism, only as long as it doesn't make the game too hard. Often the game has you infiltrating an enemy base on your own. In reality, this is impossible. No matter how much stealth you have, you can die.

Not to say that too much realism is neccessarily bad. It's just that game developers have a hard time incorporating realism in with fun gameplay.

Another thing. Like Halo and Half-life 2, you'll be wearing advanced armour that your enemies just don't have (This is set in the future).

In any case... I have plans, so if I finish this I just might do an fps where its multiplayer co-op. You and your team do missions againt AI. And it will be real. You are equal with your enemies. Your only advantage is stealth and the helicopters and machine guns you will save up to afford. I'm not even sure I'll do this, but there's an idea.

Hi

These weapons are fine, i am using them also in my game. I think they are a little big scaled in your shots. For comparison 2 shots of mine:

Looking great snake... Sure better than mine. Where did you get the hand model though? And it looks like you've used recoil as well, judging by the crosshair and their size. Smoke should be darker though, fits in better with the mood of the game.

@Gorthaur... yes that usually is the balance, as well as the fact that you can respawn .

@paul_l_ming: stabbed3 times and then kicked in the groin, okay there should never be the option to kick the enemy in the groin, there is killing, and then there is torturing, and that is torure(id deffinatly pity the enemy)

I made the hands myself. Yes, you are right about the smoke...

Well guys, I'm happy to welcome 007 to the team... he'll be doing models, which will replaces the ones shown here. .

Hey guys, until now thanks for the C&C, and I'm happy to say I've finally got some new, decent models:

AK47:


M4:


MP5:


Disregard the level, I just need some opinions on the models I've just shown.
I've added some effects like smoke and sparks, I'll add screenshots later .

p.s. These models weren't from 007. Hopefully, he'll finish some hands soon to make to improve what I've got.

OMG the weapons look fantastic is there a vid for the game yet?

I'm glad you like it. I just might release a video soon. Depends how much time I have.

those look like some really high poly guns, im just curious what its gonna look like tho with several enemies one screen + there weapons, as far as the framerate, unless they will have lower poly versions. anyways the guns look beautiful, and this looks like a really good start for a good game.

Thanks for the C&C.

Yes they are higher poly than the usual, but they run fine on my computer which has 512 mb memory. BSP take a higher toll on framerate. And for that look, I think its worth the number of polies.

Anyway, there's more to it than the graphics and hopefully the vid will show that

One thing I would change is the name. Angle of Attack has nothing to do with shooting. Being a pilot, I think it sounds inaccurate and corny. Angle of Attack is the pitch angle of an airplane against its relative wind (e.g, climbing up) and has nothing to do with weaponry.

Lol, I've been thinking that myself, I know what it meant, just thought I could get away with it. I really haven't got a name yet, so if anyone wants to suggest something feel free to do so .

Sorry guys for not posting so far. I've been busy with other stuff and just haven't found the time to edit my game (In fact I've not even been around in the forums). As you can guess, I've cancelled the video (Fraps is slow!!). However, I cannot emphasise how close I am to a demo. I just need to write a credits panel, and I'm done. Hopefully I can release this to you guys soon.

And I still need a name! Anybody??

How about "Codename Bullet" or "Operation Thingyfoo" ?

waiting for the demo!

Wow.... fast reply.

I'm glad there's some interest for my game. Telling people about your game is a good idea, it puts pressure on you to continue. If I hadn't told anyone about this, I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten so far.

The big thing I'm worrying about next is what comes after the demo. I will have finished the single player... And I neither know MP or AI. I'll probably go down the MP road. Creating AI, voice acting and general presentation is damn hard.

Well anyways one step at a time. Look forward to a demo for now... hopefully I'll get more support if I do that .

BTW... the names are too cliche I think, I dunno for now, time will tell....

you could use intense ai for it

I'd say that the AI is more important than the MP. you could then add bots to the mp too.

your game would look 100 times better if you had some level making skills

Just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong...
The reson you're always the good guys is that most people wanna be heros. Almost everyone dislikes a lot about themselves in real life, and they want want to achieve something in the game. If you're on the loosing side, you'd either have to loose the war, which would be very frustrating, I can'T imagine winning a game and still loosing a war. Or you could make the loosers in real life win, but that would be historical incorrect. I think that's why you're always the "good guys". But i also think "good guys" is a bad term for it, because "the winners write history", as captian picard in Start Trek, Next Generation said once. Maybe I should say: That's why you're always on the winners' side.
I think what could be done in regards to realsim is different difficulties, easy, medium, and realistic. I think Splinter Cell does that. I like it that way. I totally agree with you, that it's not realistic at all how much players can take, but changing that and still make them able to win would be very hard. You can't be a hero if there's 10 enemies and you know you'll die from 4 bullets.

Anyways, having said that I think the crosshair, shooting and effeckts look very nice so far. For a first game, that's amazing!! I remember my first game... I used something that acctually looked sort of like guns ... and the level was the worst level I've seen in human history...^^ this is really good. I won't say anything about the level because you said it would still be changed

Micha

You have storylines and so ready?

Try making the levels, (make sceteches etc.), then come to think about the AI or MP. As for MP, there is excelent MP-tut by Locoweed somewhere in my HDD. (can be found in the AU resources too.. I think).

Maybe I should start sketching for levels. And I know about Locoweed's tut, just need to find the time to read it. I'm struggling to find time to do things like this. While I can do quite a lot of things with 3dgs, I have much to learn about it, especially the language.

You could say I made a mistake rushing into such a large project as my first one, but I think I've done pretty well (bear in mind almost no template code used). However if I finish this, I'll take the time to learn as much as I can and go in to my next project more prepared.

And if I don't finish which I hope doesn't happen, I can at least say I got as far as a demo .

It's a good day for me. I've been looking forward to this .

I said I'd be doing credits, I put those in the readme but also did some major bug fixes (no more weapons through walls).

Bear in mind my code is very messy. You've been warned.

Controls are all in the readme.

I'm not going to say much more. Download it for yourself.

Download the demo!

C&C welcome!!

p.s. I should be releasing updates to this with bug fixes and additions.

downloading... stand ready...

edit:
the coding is well done. i wont comment the graphics, since its not nessecary. thing is, the coding is great. a bit on the weird, unorganized side, but its well done..contact me about the game via pm, willya, i wanna talk to you...

Looks good so far vartan!
Nice work.
But one thing I noticed: The dot of the crosshair does not update its position when changing resolution
The jump-height is a bit low too, but thats just adjusting a var/skill I guess.

Another thing: When in the zoom mode of the G36, the view doesn't move while shooting, you just see thoses bullets hit the wall all over the place

Yes my code is very disorganised, messy and has few comments.

The dot of the crosshair not updating can be easily fixed (I can either set it to change whenever there is a resolution change or add it to the while(1) loop like the others - the former probably being more efficient)

The jump height is just a variable.

However, I'm not sure what you mean by the view not moving. Could you be a little more specific?

p.s SPlKE sent you a pm.

The shooting and the recoil are really looking great vartan_s !!
I like the look of the guns, really pro
One thing I noticed, I played your demo level about 5 times now and 3 out of those 5 times, my machine got stuck I don't know if any one had occured the same problem ??
About the level, two things:
-The level design isn't top of the art as you know
-At the end of the level, I really thought the player could pick up all those weapons but when I jumped up that table, I walked over the weapons and pussed 1,2,3,... and so on but I only saw one weapon of the three weapons from the table come up the screen so I kept on pussing those buttons so hard and begun to get frustrated and asked myself WHERE ARE THEY, I WANNA SHOOT WITH THOSE GUNS ^^ !! And then I looked at the table and saw those two weapons lay there and I really cracked my self up for the fact that, that was your intension and that I almost broke my keyboard

Keep on updating this, and in the mean while even follow a tut. about level design, that's the only tip I've got for you

Cheers

Frazzle

Lol about the guns. Just so you know, the G36, M4a1, and ak47 are all "heavy" (or auto rife) guns. That means you'll have to drop your current "heavy" gun to pick it up (g to drop).

The mp5 is a smg or "medium" weapon and can be carried separately.

BTW press 4 for "medium" and 3 for "heavy"

I don't know why your machine is crashing. I will try in future demos to give you the option to change your resolutions (mine is video_mode = 8), that could be the problem.

As for the level design... well for now its temporary, I've had a someone contact me about level design (no names!), so we'll have to see how that goes.

As for tutorials... I'll think most likely do Locoweeds tutorial next.

Seems okay, but the M4's sound is jamming for me (sounds repeat some counts)

the jumping isn't too smooth
and I'd like to have reloading animations

Very VERY good start though


Pleasse note that I'm used wine to run this, since I'm on linux

I'm not sure. You could try re-downloading it.

Actually though I think its a case sensitivity. Linux has it, Windows doesn't.

Probably make sure that what is missing has the same capitals as the file in the game folder.

And maybe don't try running it from the zip folder... unzip it all first (I have a nasty habit of not doing that).

Hope that works

OK so I've got to fix that lunix issue.

The M4 seems fine for me. I'll have to look into that too.

Jumping as well. Where does it not go that smooth? At the top? Seems smooth enough for me.

And reloading animations coming up as soon as I can get an animator .

I mean that it's too low so it ain't smooth if it ends too early

aye to other thingyfoos.

Ah alright, that ain't a problem, just a matter of changing a variable, and that's fixed.

Will look into the other issues.

About the view not moving:
When in zoom mode (G36) the recoil of the gun does not have any effect on the view (camera.tilt/pan)

EDIT:
LOL
I just tested this again, and well now it does work

Dunno what went wrong before

Most probably because you pressed the crouch button (ctrl). The thing is, this doesn't make you go lower, I need to get a player model with animations first. For now crouching only increases accuracy, decreases recoil (how much depends on the weapon) and stops you from walking. The crouch upwards recoil for G36 variable I set to 0. A bit unrealistic, but I did it to show that you can set these variables are flexible and can vary from weapon to weapon.

Everything looks great,in my opinion,except that the weapons shoot too fast for 1-2 seconds I can empty the clip/magazine(dunno the exact word ) It is realistic,because in reality the weapons now shoot very fast , but you dont want to get out of ammo because you were surprised by an enemy make it a little like Counter-Strike in that part and it will look better.

Yea the rates of fire aren't realistic, I still have to calculate them with time etc.

The thing is, the rate of fire will ultimately affect the pace of your game. I have to decide that but it should be pretty fast. And it should also be a factor to balance out the weapons.

Changing it isn't a problem though, it's just a matter of a few variables.

Just to let people know... I need a modeller/animator to do the player models, and this is for free (as my whole game is). If anyone wants to step up and do this I'd be happy to accept (I'll need to see some work first though).

Just some number: An Ak-47 shots at 600 RPM, so 10 shots per second...them you can empty the magazine in 3 seconds!
The French FAMAS shots at 900 RPM ! so 15 shots per second...empy the magazine in 2 seconds !

I have researched many technical informations on modern the weapons...i have implemented all this in my demo. Not good graphics, but it´s a very realistic simulator.

Maloke , as I said it is realistic to have a fast shooting weapons in your project , but again as I said , people wont like to run out of ammo because they freaked when the zombie came out of nowhere and imagine they missed... I bet the military have much more advanced technologies than AK47 with its 10 shots per second (btw,not every one has 30 bullets in its magazine,some have 45,just a matter of teritory(where it was made)) and those advanced tech weapons shoot much faster , but it just isnt good for games...

He said sont bother for the levels, and as for the gun models, they're placeholders meethinks. Honestly, I do think it was a bit early to show screens, but it looks like it can be going in the right direction!

EpsiloN, all depends on wich type of game are you making... and for those who cant control himself (Bad trained soldier as example), that´s why exist the Single and Burst shot mode... and 10 shots per second is not that fast, this is a very good rate of fire for recoil and it will not empty your magazine in 1/4 seconds...3 seconds is petty much time!

But it´s Vantan´s game, so he would decide what to do...but i think he wants a realistic game, if so, my suggestion is to make the weapons as it is... and to prevent overshoot the player could change to burst mode. If it is a fiction game, them have a high rate of fire and a lot of ammo !

Ok , I wont argue it does depend on the type of the game. And , burst mode can prevent the player from shooting 100's of bullets when he gets surprised , I was just shareing my opinion on this
As for realistic games , I suggest you play I.G.I. (the first part) it might give some ideas I dont remember the rate of fire in the game,but I do remember that a few bullets can kill you very quickly and that was the part that I loved in this game...(too bad it has some problems with my video card,I dont have a crosshair,mouse,GUI...even the main menu )

PS.: I realy like the gravity cheat when I fell in that hole I though I have to restart the application,and I'm too lazy for that,and I accidentaly found the cheat

Maloke, I want a balance between realism and fun. What's the point of realism if ir ruins the gameplay? Isn't it a game in the end.

I know the figures for guns, but I haven't calculated them into my game yet.

It will all depend on whether the people want a real rate of fire or not.

For now its just to test the weapons system.

Glad you liked the gravity cheat EpsiloN, its to show that whole aspects of gameplay can be affected by variables .

And , btw , I realy think that your type of gameplay isnt for indoor it will look awesome(did I wrote it right ?) with a terrain and trees , and some bases or camps to storm.

PS.: Are you planing some transport in the game ? Maby jeeps or trucks?

Yes it's a personal choice. But this game is aimed for the majority of fps gamers so it must be fun for them. Apart from that I'm happy to add realism as long as it (in the eyes of the majority) adds to the game rather than detract.

BTW EpsiloN I might have vehicles, but right now getting a working multiplayer is priority.

As for outdoors, I plan a mixture; outdoor with indoor bases. You can hang out wherever you like most .

p.s. you spelt awesome right .

Oh , I forgot it'll have multiplayer.
Then , instead of vehicles you could add something like "Capture the flag" or "Assault" and use stationary guns I've always loved those features of multiplayer games.Storming the other teams base,or defending it from them...gives a little tactics to the game.

Ok , I tryed getting this topic in another direction , so stop talking about the guns. What I want to see in here are some screens,even if the improvement is only a picture on the wall in the second final room

Yes, I too am anxious to see some screens!

Yep, I've got some more screens. I've got some hands too . This time only thumbnails... For you dial-up users:




Anyways, so far I've added sem-automatic, can be seen as secondary fire for the m4.

Proper crouch added as well; you actually go down .

I'm planning some ejected cartridges and some grenades as well. However programming the fake physics will be a hard job, for both.

this just looks so awesome
youre a real good scripter I´d like to do that too

The weapon and the hand look top vartan_s !!
The level blocks with the .wad texture attached to it look, well you know ^^
Can't wait to see this nice models together with a nice textured level, but I think you're following some level design tutorials about now

Cheers

Frazzle

Alright, things are looking good, and I've got another demo planned for between Xmas and New Year.

Frazzle, maybe you're not that far from seeing a nice-tex... wait a second I shouldn't be telling you this!

Oh I cant wait Vartan
the last demo was fantastic cant wait
Regards
Aztec

Bringing this post back from the dead.

Don't worry, the game hasn't been abandoned, I've slowly been working and moving forward with it. I've found a new name - 'Hybrid Warfare'. Here's a title:



Please, be real with your C&C. This is the first thing potential players will see, and it has to look good. I plan to open a new thread if it is good enough and after i've released my next demo (with AI).

I cant download the demo.Cannot found!!!

So great to see this thread back again
I think its a pretty cool title for your game
and I really like the slye of the panel
If your planing for a new demo let me know I cant wait
Regards
Aztec

Yes, the site holding the demo is down. Thanks for the kind words aztec. While I don't know when the next demo will be available (some big updates), but I've made some big changes to almost everything, including the style of the game.