Goblin character contest :

Well just for fun i propose some character contest with the theme goblin !
After that you can make it how you want, futurist, standard medieval, fighter, Npc, etc ... it's up to you !

Target polycount : 5000 polys max !

I guess that you propose it, because you already have a concept in your mind or a model on your workstation!

Nonetheless, it sounds like a fun contest, for sure.

No i just saw it on some forums, but i have really no concept at all
I think i'll inspire on WOW game and take elements/ideas from pictures found with Google !

first throw :
Quick Z Sphere sketch on Zbrush !

It's horrible , normal it's just the shape you do when using Zsketch ! it was just to show the process !
I really don't regret the price i put on Zbrush license !



Some 20 minutes trying other shapes and using Claytubes and Flatten, is takeing shape, the next make the mouth and teeth before doing body !

I <3 ZBrush. It's fantastic. I'm considering participating just to keep up my practice with organic models (which don't really feature in my game), but I am kind of busy.

Jibb

Yeah Zbrus rules !
For retopology,UVs, painting (and personnal taste): 3D coat rules also

Some more little time spend quickly make a basic body !
Next Step : add armor parts before going on details !

I did not make this model for this contest but conincidently I am making a goblin tribe for my game, goblin style is from dungeons and dragons or oblivion goblins. This one is pregnant and I still have to make her small child and textures...

Maybe this contest will motivate me to get to work.



I want the player in my game to have a moral problem when he decides if he should kill goblin females and children.

Does he count as goblin as well?
If not, what is he missing to get a goblin.
Suggestions please! ^^

I think your counts also! He has the pointy ears? I think pointy ears yet not elven, pointy ears + evil = goblin...my criteria

Yours goblin also count !
Search on google for goblin and you'll see lot of different possible type of goblins !

What you'll need will be a body !

This fun contest target a full goblin whith all body !
Who ever win i don't care , it's for fun, but i plan if mine will not be too bad to animate it also and give it to community as free ressource for any purpose !

..then I have to add some evilness to fit your criteria! ^^
(Its old, almost from the beginning when sculptris appeared in the internet.)
In your post I can't see any pic, although it suggests that you posted one.

LOL maybe criteria should be that you actually have to post the image correctly! Thanks

If this one doesnt show up I will have to find another place to upload it...

good work !
Just rework on hands and hears , make real volumes, i just find them too thin, not humanoid like the goblin global body !

Little update on basic armor parts, just made quickly, lot of details to put on them also later !

Little update :
Mouth, eyes and body armor part !
I didn't thought he would look so bad !

I won't go insane detailling, just keep general ideas and shapes, like some more cartoon feeling.

You have to do something with his legs... look strange and empty.

@3Run : it's a WIP , any time it was final
Now it becomes final before some polishing like the shoulder armor parts that have some bad and weird details i'll have to rework !



ZBrush RULES !

Final version !



All as one mesh !
Problem polycount seems to be too hight; Zbrus don't have enought memory to export as .Obj.
So i can't retopology and paint under 3D Coat

Perhaps i'll have to find some solution like export part by part ??

I really like ZBrush's retopo. I know it's not as great as 3D Coat's, but it should get you by. Second option is the decimation master (I think it might be a plugin you need to download from the official website). It's very good at preserving volume and details.

Jibb

The problem is normal map baking and generation is lot more
easy for me and direct under 3D Coat !


decimation master works like a charm even if i go to 60%

The problem is the glued SubTool parts have some problems
and some parts of normal map generated are strange ?
Perhaps 60% was too much ?

Begin of retopo and normal map baking :

I don't have experience with 3D Coat, but with the UV Master plugin UV generation and normal map generation are very easy in ZBrush.

Jibb

I'm lazy tonight
Do you have some advices, tutorials for UV mapping and normal map creation ?

I found that great post for retopology (works great) !

Zbrush Retopology

UV Mapping tutorial. Once you've retopo'd and created UVs, subdivide it until you can project all the original details (it's good to "Project All" at every division along the way to keep the whole shape from having to change much), then go back to the division level you want to export and in the Tools Palette is a "Normal Map" button. Here you can generate a normal map. ZBrush will generate the normal map for the current subdivision level based on the highest subdivision level.

You can generate normal maps for different division levels. You can also generate an AO map by masking by AO and then doing a colour fill. This way it is very easy to generate multiple LoD levels and appropriate mapping for each one.

The UV Mapper doesn't give much freedom, but usually I prefer its fast workflow over the great freedom but long work of other tools. Also, generating LOD's this way doesn't give you as much control over the higher LoD levels, but it is fantastic for workflow. For me, it's exactly what I want.

Jibb

The problem for retopology is that i have that un SubTools palette :
- Object 1 : High poly model
- Object 2 : Z sphere Retopology

And i don't know how to say : Ok bake the high molde on the low poly retopo ??
Same thing for Uv's i don't know how to make them on the low poly retopology ?

I'll have to dig it up !

In the sub-tool palette there's a "Project All" button, which projects one sub-tool onto all (or maybe just all visible) other subtools. Select your low-poly retopology and click "Project All" (you probably don't need to, since you would've built it on-top of the other model). Then subdivide, and use Project All on the higher subdivision. Keep going until you have all the detail you need.

ZBrush doesn't bake normals by tracing from a low-poly model to a high one. It does it by getting the normals of the highest-subdivision mesh and projecting them onto whichever subdivision you have selected when you generate the normal map. It's not what I was used to, for sure, but with the freedom to sculpt extra details into the high-poly version of the retopo as you see fit, it's easier IMO to make a flawless projection.

For making UVs, if you have UV Master the video explains it in detail. But the basics are: select your model, open UV Master, click "Work on Clone" (or something like that), "Unwrap", "Copy UVs", then go back to your original low-poly model and click "Paste UVs".

Jibb

For my case things are more complicated to bake normal map.
And importing in 3D Coat made artifacts i don't understand ??
Perhaps polygons inside the model due to the Merge on Subtool
i made ?
I'll go lot more fast by redoing entirely the model on 3D coat,
now i have the concept in 3D

And Retopology under Zbrush is really far from all the options
and easy fast way you can do in 3D Coat !

For the workflow between 3D coat and Zbrush i'll have to do some tests to find the better !

It's earlier WIP, lot of thinsg to polish !
All to redo
It was so fast under Zbrush !

Can't you just devide it into two parts in ZBrush? And import the two parts in 3DCoat?
Or, a better solution, cut it in two halfs, you can mirror the half in 3DCoat anyway - at least, I guess so.

In fact the problem is really strange, and i think comes from
all "glued" parts in subtools !
I've been able to import it all under 3D coat the first time, but normal map baking done really strange problems like i showed it

Another test :
Under Zbrush i made one whole model, no several parts, with on subdivision only , and imports perfectly under 3D Coat and 3D Coat bakes normal map perfectly also :



Like you can see on picture i made some precise curve in upper subdivision , with this precision i think i can do lot
of things in Zbrush-> 3D coat workflow !

So last thing to do, Redo all the goblin in Zbrus using only one or two subdivision on base mesh !

--------

That's strange but i find lot more easy and fast to use
ZSpheres for main body, hands etc ... + Zsktech to make quickly all the shape ... compared to 3D coat Voxels !
Only my personnal taste !
This little character roughly done , only took me some 15 or 20 minutes trying things (Zsketch -> Flatten tool to quickly
make all smooth, than Claytubes mainly ) !
Yes Zbrush is fast !!


So my workflow will be one whole model under ZBrush, than
import in 3D coat for fast Retopo, UV , normal map making and painting !

3 subdivions on Zbrush and painting som details on surface !
Import in 3D coat is ok beacause is OK and normal map is without artifacts afetr retopology :

We can see all details i put in Zbrush are ok on the normal map of low poly begin !




The first Zbrush goblin i made can't be re used caus i deleted
lower subdivion levels to gain further levels of subdivision

But it will be fast to remake it one time in Zbrush !

This is what i have so far i only spent 30 mins on it in sculptris so theres a lot to be done. i took in account for the 5000 poly's max and this model is currently 6400














the face is loosly based on the ferengie from startrek the next generation.

and where are your pictures?
upload them somewhre else

Good start Zeusk !
When sculpting you can put lot lot more polygons like 200 000 and lot more, you'll use Retopology to create the low poly version !

i got to spend another hour on my goblin model last night and this is what i came up with......













he's wearing dog skin

I really like the dog clothes
Really good shape, keep it up, finish general volumes than increase resolution and add details !

You are really talented , if you keep practicing, now way :
you'll make great 3D models indeed
All is matter of work and practice a lot !

Keep it up !


--------------

Well litlle progress, but i won't switch to Zbrus, but stay with 3D coat indeed




The power of 3D coat, any time you can switch between ultra fast surface deformation Zbrush style) , to Voxel sculpting !
- Voxels to add more volume anywhere surface or remove volume.
- Surface : ultra fast sculpting with draw, thin tool , planar tool all to make hard surface also etc ... !

You can go very far wit 3D Coat and havving easy UV mapping tools, one of the best retopology tools (and auto retopology),
Normal map baking, painting tools on diffuse,specular,normal maps ... Well all you need : complete from beginning to finish the model !



Just hope to finish it for AUM 100 !!!!!!!!!

hey thats a good idea! might just include my model into AUM 100

In the finishings



I have to redo the hands, polish armor , add details to face !
Perhaps put some little pieces of armor in arms that look empty compared to the rest of body , before Retopology !

Ok i think i'll stop here for general forms !
Perhaps i'll add sculpting details and perhaps a big weapon ?

a big weapon would be cool i'd like to suggest using a basemesh that supports hardlines for the armor (in general, not for this model since the majority of it is already done) that way the armor looks more polished,and less "clay" look. other than that though it is coming along nicely.

using a basemesh that supports hardlines for the armor
Yes, i'll do but i don't understand very well
Do you have an example ?
Or tell me what parts of the character i should modify and in what way ?
I will not take account of every remark of each people if i want to finish it :), but i'll take some until i do the retopology work !

(I think colors, specular will remove the clay look also).
In fact in 3D coat you can retopology on top of character to make new things or peices of armor in this cases than subdivide and sculpt if needed !

Perhaps some armor more in that ways for Torso ?

First retopology try (i'll have to correct some polygons) !

Final low poly model under Blender.

Only baked Ambient Occlusion (no normal map and no specular for now ) !


Next step painting before rigging and animating !




Wireframe : made fast and not the best topology , but works well !
Before rigging and animation i'll make optimisations by welding unecessary vertex.

Cant get rid of mirror seam of the normal map ???

Even the character without normal map looks better !
Perhaps i should generate the normal map from Ambient occlusion map and do some normal map painting if needed ??

That was a bad place to put the UV seams Tangent-space normal mapping generally has problems at UV seams. I've heard some say that it's just the way tangent-space normal mapping works, and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Either way, the best thing to do is avoid having UV seams in important places.

Jibb

How do they do in AAA games, caus theer is nothing visible in the faces ??

Detailled Next gen game making is incredibly time consumming
Even on my simple not so detailled goblin i've already put a good bunch of hours after work !

I understand why indie lonewolves prefer polished graphic style or polished things instead of lot of over detailled next gen garphics that would keep them buzzy for year or years

They don't split open the UVs through the face, which I assume you did.

If you see AAA skins, they're usually split open at the back, and just weirdly deformed at the front.

Jibb

Well the problem is that the model in 3D Coat uses Symmetry in fact even for baking , but i'll see if i can do something !
Well i see no way actyally under 3D coat.

Well the normal map will be optionnal for people wanting it !

I'll do a good painting and specular that really won't need normal to be great in it's state

wow ratchet your model looks amazing right now. i need to work on mines a little more

the other thing you can do is try to mask the seam with your diffuse texture somehow. give a reason why the line should be there or add shadow there somehow to hide it.

Maybe, 3DCoat offers something similar to blender:
Make a copy of the model, make a new uv layout for the copy with seams at more hidden places of the mesh, and then copy the texture from the original model to its copy.

ratchet, just edit your normalmap. i had this ones, too. youst remove the egdes.
after normalmapping filterafter editing
then this effect was gone...
xxxxxxx

it has nothing to do with the normal map (that would help a little but its not the only reason). the reason is that the tangent is calculated using the uv, and seams mess that up.

The problem is that the seam is not in the middle of a a normal map piece in the texture. my seams are all in the borders !
And i use symmetry !

In fact i found some to lower the visiblity of the seam :
I painted on the 3D object in it's normal map channel where the seam to rasie it a little then used some smooth on the normal i painted !

It is less visible , but to be perfect perhaps i should paint
on the normal map directly ?
The problem seems to be the normal map height going down near the seam !

Strange, but now it's lot better, so i'll keep normal map that brign some good volume information also

Are the vertices all merged?

Yes, merged under Blender and normals recalculated outside !
It seems to be some problem with normal map calculation when using symmetry under 3D coat !

Blocking colors, and beginning of painting !
(I'll paint noise and detail brushes on normal ,Diffuse,specular map to bring on material details)



It will be a contribution for AUM100

I'm not sure the colors i have put are so good ??
If someone think colors are bad and prefer some others , don't
hesitate to do a paint over, i'll take account of suggestions

he's looking good but those colours have made him less a menacing goblin and more a court jester

darker colours would be good throw in some deep blues and greys

Thanks,

Have you got some example ? (or simply do a paint over)

more a court jester

I don't understand, what is jester ??

basically a medieval times clown.

http://www.medieval-entertainers.co.uk/Images/Jester-unicycle.jpg

ahha
No i don't think such clown will look so menacing !

I think these colors with some blood later will make it look more like a goblin rady for battle

Finalising texture : it's becoming more serious

(still will need face details wrinkles, draker color, same for the hands) !




I hope people will find a use of it ?

Any weapon picture or design idea ?

Last touches !
Next gen making is so so HEAVY WORK and TIRING

(That's why for game making i target more simple graphics stylish style instead of realistic)









Click on pictures to zoom and view details better !

Next step : Rigging and animation !

Uhhh... wait, what?! The textures are horrible and the mesh is extremely low poly. Either you have another model that you haven't shown yet, or you don't really know what next gen is.
I never wanted to write in this thread and leave you alone, but this statement was just too ridiculous.

or you don't really know what next gen is
Well if my textures are bad ok, but it's Next Gen :
Normal map, specular map and Medium LOD, i can easily
add lot more polygons in retopology at any time !
But i thaught for 3DGS people and A8 engine, im' not sure lot
more polygons will make a difference, and less polygons it's lot more power with A8 to do other things : optimisation !
Next Gen don't mean also lot of polygons only !

-------------

Sorry, but i think you haven't followed all the thread.

- I begun to make it on Zbrush than baking afetr import in 3D Coat failed : merged subtools posed a problem
- then tried to restart from 3D Coat, but abandonned bored to have to do all again
- then went back Zbrush made one mesh,trying to decimate for import into 3D coat : failed
- Then redone all from Zero in 3D Coat

------- LOT LOT OF TIME LOOSED AND VERY VERY BORRING REDOING IT ALL , SO YES THIS IS TIRING ---------------

For the character and textures : im' bad at textures !

I Proposed anybody to give me some ideas of textures/colors :
nobody answered , so nobody interested : so i don't mind a lot !!

It will be a free character anyone can reset the normal map,diffuse and specular colors with a plain color and repaint it as they wish.

So you can also express yourself and show us good textures
Next time i'll make a free contribution i won't make the textures and normal map painting : it will be to users to
paint them as they want , i think it's ideal solution.

-----------------

Same things for polygons, if you want more, just add LOOP CUTS, the UV will remain the same.

And for a RPG action game for example, where you battlle hordes of goblins, with far camera it will be really ok, and i think people will have to lower polygons on the head also !


Well it's FREE contribution, and better than the basic GUARD and other character models of 3DGS for an action RPG game.

I followed the thread, and this is just a lame excuse. I rewrite a lot of code just because it doesn't run in a certain environment or because there are two versions especially for different hardware.
I don't see why you as modeler should have it any better, especially if you claim that it is next gen!
If I claim that my code is as performant as possible, then it is as performant as possible. I want the same for models, you say its next gen so it should be next gen. Not "before the last gen".



I know



You got feedback about the colors, "nobody answered me, you are all evil" is a false claim



Yay, this is a great quote. "Hey, I give you a non next gen model but claim it is one because you can make it a next gen model".



Serious question: Are you a troll?

@Texture
I would use a not so green green just something like that
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3_2FCxXqZPQ/TK...-Wallpapers.jpg

And red isn't the right color there i would choose an old metal like this (and add some blood ect when ur goblin is evil).
http://www.gimp-werkstatt.de/Rost/Rost.png

and remove this lines if possible


@Mesh
maybe a bit more poly's but the rest is ok
xxxxxxx

Serious question: Are you a troll?

SERIOUSLY NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE ON YOUR POST !!!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU HAD A VERY BAD DAY ? IT'S NOT MY FAULT :
BELIEVE ME

GO AND POST ELSEWHERE PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!
GO ANNOYING ANOTHER PEOPLE ON OTHER THREADS PLEASE !!

SERIOUSLY IT'S A THREAD ABOUT MODELING !

WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ME IN EACH POINT : TEXTURES , POLYGONS ???

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE MODEL : JUST P A S S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE PROGRAMMER SO WHY ARE YOU SEARCHING TO ME PUT DOWN
HERE ?

I ALREADY SAID IT , YOU DON'T LIKE ME : NO PROBLEM , SO JUST
PASS !!!!!!!!!!

-------------------

I don't read and don't post if not constructive in your programming posts , or i don't even read them !

SO DO THE SAME !

Don't read, don't post in my modelling thread if you do'nt have something constructive to say !!!!

Why putting down people ?? It is your life's goal ??
Mine is lot more in bringging people up : encouraging, positive critics, some helps also !

Well, i think you'll only learn when growing up , your worst ennemy is YOURSELF !! You do'nt have any control on yourself to avoid the bad way of yourself !

It's like a special martial art i practice, once the opponent is on the ground , we just have the sword under is neck, if he moves , he's cutted , we don't cut him at all !
Only his Karma and way of behaving will save his life by stopping t owant to fight, or will kill him caus he couldn't self control to stop wanting to fight caus angry !

---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

COULD ANY ADMIN CLOSE THIS THREAD PLEASE

--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

I can't continue posting my work with such non consrtuctives attacks, and people wanting this modeling project to fail !

I should have post in Polycount or Game Artisans : No bad programmer !!
--------------------------------------------

Okay, listen. I'm not here to make your life bad, I'm here to say you that your model is NOT next gen. If you can't live with the fact, thats not my fault.

The next thing is this totally awesome quote:

May I remember you about your Lite Foundation post? I can tell you that 100% of it was pure bullshit because you had no idea of the whole topic. But I didn't insult you but picked every point of you and answered it in a friendly way.
Now I'm here and tell you that your model is not next gen, how do I know this without being able to model? Because I have eyes. I know how next gen is supposed to look like and I'm able to compare it with your model. Thats everything I care about, if you put 1000 hours into it: I don't care, I judge by the look.
Just like you judge code by its look and probably documentation, but not by its effort because you don't understand anything of this anyway.

If you can't live with this, again, thats not my fault but don't make false claims about me. Kthxbye

JUSTIFIYNG YOURSELF !

WHO HAVE SAID I WAS A TROLL IN THIS THREAD !

I DON'T HAVE INSULTED YOU COMPARED TO YOU !!

I'M NOT THE ATTACKER !!!

-------------

AND IF PEROSNALLY I FIND SCULPTING CHARACTERS HEAVY AND TIRING , WHY NOT ??? THAT'S MY RIGHT NO ?

and perhaps i have long days working on computer in my job and already some bad people to behave with sometimes !

------------------

SOME ADMIN TO CLOSE THE THREAD PLEASE !

i really like the model..

ok.. the texture is bad.. but that´s something you or others can work on..

I´ve a question...
Can you do a Model for me?

I need this Imp (from Dungeon keeper) without the pick:

http://www.tuppambr.demon.co.uk/olivia/oliviaimp.jpg

^_^

Cpt. Capslock in the house much?

I asked you if you are a troll, I didn't said that you are one (although I have the feeling). This was my second post, after you made a lot of false claims and wrote a lot of other bullshit.
The fact is: Every time I read something of you, I want to smash my head onto my desk as hard as possible. I don't like you, you claim to work in "the industry" but as what? A janitor? You prove with every post that you have no real clue about all the things, but just an opinion.



Yes, but don't think that this changes my opinion about your work.



I have to hold deadlines too, I have to work with difficult clients too. But the fact is still that your model is not next gen.

you claim to work in "the industry" but as what?

I'm programmer in WEB technologies (Java mainly), applications for clients and working in teams each project for diverse industry domains : Bank, Insurance, Cars etc .... !

Yeah i'm lot more adult the you indeed !!!!!!!!!!!

-----------


Every time I read something of you, I want to smash my head onto my desk as hard as possible.

I zlready said it : JUST PASS , DON'T READ IT !!!

Why do i have to have you fighting me in my own thread

I don't like your programming posts , no interest for me also , so :
I JUST PASS , I DON'T POST AND PUT YOU DOWN EVEN IF I DON'T LIKE YOU AT ALL !!


-------------

But the fact is still that your model is not next gen.

OK IT'S NOT NEXT GEN, IT's FUTURE GEN

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ????? REALLY ??????

Can't you go pollute and flamewar on another thread ???

---------------

BE MORE TOLERANT : ACCEPT DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND BEHAVIOURS !
IT'S WAR GOING ON AND WILL GROW INDEED : CAUS PEOPLE WITH POWER BEHAVE LIKE YOU, THEY WANT OTHERS TO BE THE SAME, CAUS THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE THE BEST IN ALL THINGS , THEY CAN'T ACCEPT DIFFERENCE !

ACCEPT THAT I WILL NEVER THINK LIKE YOU AND STOP FIGHTING TO WIN NOTHING !!

I am sorry to hear that your giving up on your contribution for AUM 100, I'm sure that the model would have been very useful to lots of users, especially with nice nm's & animations.

I think that you should maybe reconsider this decision, it doesn't really matter if someone thinks that something is next-gen or someone thinks that it's not next-gen, the important thing is that this model could be very useful & could make a great contribution.

..and I don't wanna sound like I'm criticizing you or anything but: it's just one person's opinion, don't take it so badly:) Even if it's not Crysis 2 model that still doesn't mean it's a bad model:)

..and I don't wanna sound like I'm criticizing you or anything but

Critics are good, you can criticise me , in a positive way
Its' the way for anyone to evolve : to be criticized !!

-------------

Someone teancious putting you down, affirming that he hates each post you write and saying HE IS THE TRUE !
ONLY HE IS THE BEST !

And tryning to demonstrate thay YOU and WHAT YOU DO IS TRASH !
ONLY HIM KNOWS WHAT IS A GOOD MODEL !
Why all people shoudl love what HE LIKES ONLY !

I LIKE A LOT INCREDIBLY MY GOBLIN, THAT'S MY TASTE POINT !

----------

ANYONE WHO DON'T LIKE : NO PROBLEM .... JUST P A S S !!!!!

REALLY !!!!

------------


Well .... Sorry, but that's really HARSH to read specially in a MODELING THREAD ans STARTED by me , and from people that hates what is made here and what is written by me
People that can't shut their eyes on this thread , it's so difficult to self control


I JUST PREY FOR THE DAY THEY DIE IT WON'T BE CAUS OF NO SELF CONTROL !!

Dude, I really dislike you for a lot of different reasons (none of them is that you have a different opinion than I), but I don't wish that you die. Please, calm down and don't write emotional posts that you might regret later!


STOP CLAIMING THINGS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE! NOW! Seriously, I never said anything like this, I never wished that you die and I never said that I'm the best whatsoever.
Take this as an advice now: If you can't stand that someone says that your stupid model has a fucking horrible texture and mesh, then don't fucking post anything here.
This thread is just a poser thread for you anyway, this was started as a contest thread but I have the feeling that it was only started so that you can show of your "skills".


No, I said that your model is NOT next gen. Not that it is trash, I just said that it is not next gen. You claimed that it is next gen but it just isn't next gen nor future gen.
And I know how a good model looks like, I have eyes you idiot.

Wow. Seriously. This has totally gotten out of hand.

Here goes! Our favorite forum disclaimer: I'm not a moderator, I shouldn't be one, and I should probably shut up, now. But instead...

ratchet, it's easy to see that you're upset. I'm sorry to see that, and I guess I can understand - it can be quite painful to hear negative feedback (justified or not) about something you've spent a lot of time on. Additionally, there's a language barrier here in place, since neither you nor JustSid are native speakers. This complicates matters.
I believe that you misunderstood JustSid's comment to be more aggressive than it was intented to be. Realize this, even if he claimed your troll model was awful, then that is a comment about the screenshot he saw, representing a state of the model. It's important to realize that it was not a comment about you.
Yes, I get that he may have... implied certain things. But you and I (and he, too) know that those are guesses at best, and warped views on things at worst. No one said you were unable to model, and no one ever honestly could, based on a single screenshot.
Now, you sadly have made the mistake to reply in anger. This is, usually, a bad idea, and I believe this time is no exception. No matter how angry you are, the best way to deal with it is to not post on the internet. It is a bit sad to see your usually friendly, calm and collected self turn into this. If you notice that you've written entire paragraphs in ALL-CAPS, then that is a sure sign to take a break and not reply. If you feel that someone trolls you, then why even grace the guy with a reply? Isn't it much better to make him feel like he wasted time?

Fine, then. Now, it happened. And I believe you'll agree that you've got a bit carried away here. I mean:



This ... this is just a horrible thing to say. No matter how upset you are, this goes too far.
I'm not here to point fingers, and I will instantly edit this out the moment you ask me to, since I believe you'll find this embarassing in a bit. Just let me know.


Fine, then. What I'm trying to say with this is: In your anger, you've definately overreacted. Not putting your model up as a contribution would be a shame, given how much work you invested and how many people are looking forward to it (not all of them, mind you, necessarily posting here). And to deny them this just because one person was a bit of a jerk? Sounds unreasonable. I suggest doing the mature thing, accepting that opinions differ, understand that there might be truth (though I'm not to say how much) even in the harshest bit of critique, and using that as a means to better your skills. And do the people waiting for it a favor by releasing it. Next-gen or not, who really cares (personally, I cannot even tell what a stupid term like that is supposed to mean, and maybe that is actually the source of all this)? Contributions are always welcome. You've spent much time on something for the rest of us, and for that you deserve nothing but praise and thanks, no matter what.
Let me be the first, then, to actually thank you for what you've done. Great job, it's fantastic to see people enthusiastic in their work! I hope that despite all this - and my horrible wall of text - you keep such an work ethic.

+++


JustSid, well. Alright, then. Yes, you didn't say that his model was trash. As in, you weren't using those words or synonyms explicitly. No, you weren't phrasing your critique in a way that'd make it impossible to think so. Like this:



It'd be easy to go on, but I suspect it would be pointless to.

Don't get me wrong, I value criticism, and you're one of the few posters who give good, valid and honest critic. That's great, and I wish there were more who did.
And I won't even give you the usual "but please phrase it positively!"-line, since I suspect you would ignore it most likely. It's not your style, and I guess thats fine.
No, what I'm wondering about is, why did you continue?

Seriously. After the post above, I, personally, would have felt bad already. Yes, I'm a wuss, but I was (am?) a bit of an asshole when it came to criticism a while ago. But here, ratchet replied, and it was clear he was upset. Then you replied in a noncharmant tone, and you asked him if he was a troll. Some of the latter comments clearly enter the colorful, yet awful realm of personal attacks (not saying you're the one who started it, but maybe, who began isn't as important in issues that clearly only reach this point with two people).


Alright. Whatever. I guess this is "your style", and I guess the internet kind of needs those people. Again, I find it great that you comment, and that you're honest (brutally so). But at some point, you cross a line between honest criticism and personal attack. Not that you've crossed it here (at least not in the earlier posts, though it's harder to make that case in the later ones), but sometimes, it felt like you were getting close. If next time, you could simply quit the discussion a post or two earlier, then that'd be great.
Apart from that, continue the good work, especially with your cool contributions.

I dont think next gen has been properly defined for me, but I think the term started around when people began to put normal maps on models. So in that sense ratchets model is next gen.

Also he said that next gen is hard work, I think he just meant that the workflow he was using was difficult, but from what I have read and seen of current next gen modelers like Vitaly Bulgorov (one of my personal favorites today) have a much more difficult and extensive workflow then the relatively little work you have done here. Guys like this make several studies and models to arrive at only one finished product, they continue to perfect their texturing and detailing until they know their work meets the expectations of the particular job they are doing.


On the other hand if you dont like justSids critics you should just take your own advice and pass over it. Just ignore him or tell him "Thank you for the observations"

I also have some serious critiques of your model,workflow and textures but I would never say them here because I feel like you would take them personally and try to demonize me. No one will want to help you if you cannot take criticism.

But I learned a lot from your posts so far, I didn't know about 3d coat before and now because of your posts here I downloaded it and have started to see its capabilities. Also when you told me about what you saw as faults on my models I take that as a good thing and I will consider them (the ears and hands do seem to lack volume). I WANT to hear what people think of my work because it helps me, thats why I post here. I'm not looking for people to adore my work, only a very insecure or a very narcissistic person needs that.

So please don't close this thread, people are getting benefits here, model requests are being made, people are interacting. We cant close the thread just because your having a hard time. This is not just your thread, you invited all to join and that includes justSid and anyone else.

@Ratchet you may already notices but you have been banned temporary for 2 days.

Please be calm next time!

ohhh... i definitely agreed that he stepped out of line, but i woulda thought he would have calmed down and went back on topic. a 7 day ban seems a little harsh.

Yes, you are right. It wasn't phrased very good so let me get this clear again: It was always about the "next gen". For me, next gen means next generation. This is, better than one can currently see in medicore games. Next gen is the direction where everything goes to.
This model is definitely not a milestone and not next gen, I was a bit amazed by ratchets statement that it was next gen so I asked a bit sarcastic if there was another model he hasn't showed us yet.
All in all, I never wanted to say that the model is trash! Its better than every model I will be able to make in my life!


My second post was to clarify why I wrote the first post, the last question ("Are you a troll?") was serious because he already started with the caps and made a lot of false claims and interpreted things into my words that were just stupid.
My third post was also meant to clarify things and show him that he acts a bit stupid, but I began to lose my patience.
The last post was written because I was seriously angry about what he wrote and I didn't wanted to let it uncomment.

Just to clarify things once and for all:
IT'S A GOBLIN AND NOT A TROLL

Does this mean that you didn't recognise that ratchet already was deeply hurt by your first statement?

To me that was obvious, and I consider taking words of someone literally
who is in rage and sad about the critics is like putting
a knife into his wounds and turn it around.

I agree with lostclimate that 7 days is quite harsh.
And Sid had his inappropriate part, too.

There is no need to argue when you see that you already hurt someone.
The appropriate reaction in this case is to leave it as it is,
and to give the criticised person time to calm down
and to get an eased view on the critic
- even, if it lasts some months or more.

EDIT:
Ah, and talking about meanings of the word 'next-gen'.
The word 'troll' seems to be used in different and unclear ways, too.

I like the model. Tried making a goblin for this thread a while ago. I just can't seem to finish it. And it's more of a troll now than a goblin.
It's next-gen(tm) lowpoly though!

@Pappenheimer :
Sure, the sword example was really not placed here at all,
it must remain between martial art talks like me and my masters only, it has nothing to do here or anyhwhere outside of the dojo. It was more to have the last word i talked that to mean, stop moving (posting) or you'll go in the bad direction,finally that' me that have gonna in the bad direction and finished banned !

-----------------

@JustSid :
I just would want to escuse me to you my friend.
Even if you would dislike anything or says the model is bad ,
or you dislike what i post, i can really live with it.
I could also just argue a little only, or simply ignore the comments if i didn't like them !
In fact i mixed too much the model thread with the really bad week at work and what occured in my personnal life (lot of disappointment and deception ) ; i had also co cotninue at home, all that with a very bad week personnaly, it was a bad week.
--------------
I don't says that to thanks to come back, i just say it caus it's normal and i think i've really gonna too stupid on the wrong way , so :
----------------
MY APOLOGISES JustSid !
----------------



--------------------------

I seen i was banned, but i realmized finally after been banned , that i really couldn't miss AUM100, not a ban, not a Tsunami , not Fukushima could stop me to give it to community

So this week , i rigged and animated the goblin model, and i was prepared to create another 3DGS user profile , for sending the goblin to Georges !
Within the 30 or 31 of the month , i think it will be ready.

I'll pack the model with two textures versions :
- textures i did (if i have time i'll try to paint another version)
- Ambient occlusion texture in diffuse , normal and specular
empty, ready to paint : that way people can really paint it as they wishes or make variations.
----------

It's a good lesson what happened for me, really.
And i should produce lot more instead of posting too much

Animating in Blender.


So i added more polygons to round in some areas to please as much people i can.
The simple weapons are placeholders , just to verify aniamtion don't do bad things like putting weapon through the floor when walking.
Anyone will be able to attach hi own weapons (there are a lot fo good and free you can find throught internet).

glad to see you're completing it and welcome back!

Thanks MrGuest.

--------------

It's finished.
It's not Next Gen , but it's better than low poly things on Iphone games

2 textures version :

- warrhammer version
- version ready to paint : Diffuse with baked normal map only
This version can be ready goo to practice hand painting on the maps.

Animations : I put all on 250 Frames, so you'll have to use
Time Step factor to slow down animations (i put a subtile hears movement also)
- idle
- walk
- idlefight (idle for fight)
- block
- attack
- run

I was limited to 250 frames on MED, is there a way to increase them ?
Cause fall down of the character is missing , only people using ragdoll will not mind !

-----------------

The basic shapes of weapon and shield are not in the final model, they were place holder for animation work.

Diffuse, Normal,Specular :


Diffuse only (with baked normal map as base , ready for paint over ) :


-----------
Download
-----------
it contains :
- MDL goblin Wharramer version :
skin 1 : diffuse
skin 2 : normal
skin 3 : specular
- MDL Goblin "Ready to Color" Version :
skin 1 : Diffuse texture (baked normal map)
- Blender file, ready for modifying animations or model
- All 6 textures of the 2 versions : Wharramer textures version and ready to paint textures version.



Download Link :
Final Download

I'll put another Link with more animations and better made,
in MED i did'nt find real numerotation of Blender animation
frames, so it's a little strange on some loops !


Happy download !
I hope someone will find a use of it

ratchet, it's amazing. Wow, very detailled.

good job!

Yes, its much better indeed (the weapons are placeholders, so they are just fine).
I would overwork the red (leather?!) armor on his chest a bit, the white scratches look a bit wrong. Maybe a lighter or darker red?

Thanks Guys !
It's far from pro artists, and it has some glitches and imprecise textures or distortions areas due to retouch model like Re UV of the barcelets , an re paint on normal map in bracelets instead of a good Normal map generation (i didn't succed in reset it on barcelets Area by painting).
But well better than Low poly iphones ones !

@Just Sid :
Yes i agree some critics, helped make it better specially on the skin color.I'm not pro at scratches, but i'll try another
red if i have time tonight.
If you have some other critics on colors don't hesitate ot bring them on !

Nice one ratchet. Nice contribution.

Imo you should start another model while you are warmed up, i am sure it will be a lot better than this one.

does look much better now. you might also want to desaturate that leather a little or something because right now it is a little redder than i'd picture it. but then again thats just personal preferences. as far as the poly's go you missed one spot where you really needed more and thats the top of the head. right now its a really harsh sharp edge, you might want to split it up just a little bit more to get a better sillouhette. the last little thing i might critic is that you might want to somehow layer over some details on the textures..

again, all preferences, but i thought i might suggest them.

@Quadraxas :
I would like to see your good 3D skills
@losticmate :
I'll put naother brighte Red color , for the head i'll add more polyongs and smooth it. For details on textures why not doing some hand paint on the baked normal map texture ?
I 'm not skilled at texturing.

decided to make an aum 100 as well, and that i'd make one that goes with yours. if you'd like i can zip an obj file and the textures so you can see what your model looks like holding it.:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
(the next one has a slight uv issue, its a pre-final version that is kinda early in the exporting process.)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

hope its not too violent for the style of your model


EDIT: btw, im not sure... would this be considered next gen/current gen

@ratchet, either you did not understand my post, or i dont understand yours. I never said anything about my 3d skills, i just said your model is good, if you start another one you can make a better one with the stuff you learned while doing the goblin model.

@Quadraxas:
Yes, sorry i didn't understand. Indeed, all critics will only can me progress a little more.

@Losticmate:
Great
Perhaps you could find a free shield on the Net and just repaint it a little , because the goblin was animated with it, but heven with that weapon it will be already great !

how about these?

Great MrGuest.
The Goblin is ready for battle now

is the contest over? I've been working in this, still needs some details a texture and retopology but I'm getting there.