Unity growing and 3DGS Growing ?

Ok i changed this post as some users pointed what i said as beeing stupid !

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This is crazy, but each time i go to Unity i find so much new games and tools in the makings, even mazing ones made by amateurs that looks so good ?? I'm amazed ...
So i thaught to luanch some open discussion


I don't have seen people here producing such good done FPS for example game on the amateur side (made by a lonewolf) !
amateur FPS
Little team for some MMO :
MMO City of Steam

Even independant people produce , more and more amzing tools :
procedural character generation
MegaShapes

Well i think Unity is just like a small snow ball increasing each time ... specially with all stuff on their Store.
And beeing so 3D artist oriented and helping them with great tools , just make it even more popular among all 3D artists people.
I didn't have seen 3DGS in 3D artists forum, or i missed lot of threads ... they usually use UDK, and some Unity when it comes to think on some game perhaps.

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I agree 3DGS can stay with it's own editor, without looking too much at what others do. There will always be market for it indeed.
Like Dark Basic Pro and all it's fans, Ogre 3D and it's commercial projects etc ...
I didn't say Unity will be the only one indeed.
Even teams have choosen Open source engine like Ogre 3D to be free to do as they want and their own tools.


Unity before becoming popular, was used, had a great workflow and editor that Mac users loved a lot indeed.
And it was made by one man, the actual man behind all unity staff
I think he just put all chances by making a good 3D engine , and friendly editor with lot of visual things to help 3D artists. Unity had a great solid workflow and a 3D editor people loved to use, i think this was a great start even when it wasnt' so popular.
Than he brought the editor for Windows, just opened it to all Windows users, but what made it even more popular has been all mobile games, caus it wasn't so lot of PC or console projects known games ,only few !
I won't wait for mobile, but if 3DGS allow mobile games, yes it will be a serious boost i think.
We'll have to see all advantages against other mobile ready 3D engines ?

So what could make 3DGS more popular ?
- Mobile ?
- Lot more 3D artist orieted stuff :
I don't talk about complete game style template but a lot of little things here and here that make 3D artists happy (visual helpers, terrain editor, import formats, real time editing , snapping tools , shader list to apply them directly etc ...) ?

Will 3DGS grows a lot when some new things will come ?
(I think some users prefer that question than the previous one ?)

Thanks for bringing this really outstandingly important topic, which has never been discussed here before, to our attention. I think you're totally right. Unity will be the standard for indie developers. All other engines will die. GameStudio will be the first victim of unity. Also I think that this forum is dying.

Ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam.

@Uhrwerk :
Re read my modified post !
So now do you think my last question is better ?

Core power of gamestudio is the very easy to use liteC script language.
Even if you have so much more possibilities with UnityJavaScript.
And yes - if gamestudio would have the same workflow like unity... gamestudio would be king. But the reality is... that unity has more man power and I am sure, the U-Team works very hard to get scripting easier. Just look at the new animation system. Fuck!
... shit... why do I am writing this fuck?
Ratchet are you totally blind and sick and not able to think about this shit one minute at your own fucking grey mass?
The real shit is... I don´t like this fucking "all with love" and "lots of love"-crap!
I do not like these very respectable way of conversation like THEY do.
Difference between Unity Forum and Gamestudio is...

If I think - you are a sick motherfucker... I can write it here down.
If I would be a unity com member - I have to write... shit like the first sentences above.

I think Bowie could spell it better out what is ment to be a member of the gs com.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuwC4VJi50[/video]

I am very sure about one thing....
If you would print T-Shirts with the following
" I am proud to be a member of this fucking com"
you would earn more money then JCL did it with A8 the last 3 years.

Be rassured, i don't have that T shirt style
And im' not some Ynity fna boy also, i was just surprised by all the projects that are going on by simple guys like you and me in their forums ...

And i use 3DGS, but another 3D engine actually, an indie one and i won't talk about it , it is just amazing in 3D features and easy to program (but it don't have already some plugin programming possibilities as Unity )

Well ok, my post Rant will not be constructive and i think it's useless ... it could be closed or deleted so !

Well, if you're asking me personally, no. It's like: "What do you think will the weather be in 2015?". Why not just awaiting the things to come?

hey, don't forget XNA here!!

@ratchet: If you want a programmers engine, take XNA!!
Only thing good for designers is the "direct" FBX import (without animation of course!)

i really like gamestudio but i recently switched nearly completly over to XNA because i can program my way (which means i try to clone the gamestudio API )
but XNA has some advantages over gs:
you program object oriented.
that's all

afaik XNA is dying?

I've NEVER NEVER NEVER seen one single Unity game that was actually _fun_ and _interesting_ to play - the best games I've seen so far were branded/licensed mobile games with beautiful assets and dull gameplay.
But yeah, I really miss OOP in Acknex.

I've NEVER NEVER NEVER seen one single Acknex game that was actually _fun_ and _interesting_ to play

alpha_strike@ ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS? What about those project over this forum??

* SUPERKU (actually, they were more funny little multiplayer games, made by superku)
* KarBOOM (I hope it will go out with Acknex, without changing the engine)
* AAAaaaaAAAAaaaaaAAAAA! A Reckless Disregard for Gravity

and what about any Infinite Lottery, Survive!, ...

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/pid

@3run... of course I am totally nuts... that´s the reason why I spend the majority of my life time with creative ideas. I should better go more outside.
No, I just wanted to go the way of reality... of course - sajeth writes down his position - but I saw no ground breaking games in Acknex too. So this could not be an argument pro or contra for or against Unity or Acknex. Are you with me, bro?

btw ... AAAAh... changed to unity!

They changed to Unity for the iOS version.
The first & very succesful PC version was done with gamestudio and was featured on steam.

But now they are working with Unity, because it works for them.

That´s the only thing what counts imo: Use whatever works for you.
For instance, I wouldn´t use GS or Unity for a 2D adventure. I would go for other solutions, that are build towards my goal.

For prototyping ideas I use Gamestudio quite often, because I´m used to it. But to prototype a physics based game, I use unity for example.

The world is not black & white. You don´t get vanished in nil or end up in hell if you use different engines and tools.


No big bad geek will come and kill you. Believe me.

Whether anyone has made a fun and interesting game with an engine is not a reflection on the engine, but on the developers of the game.

I still think 3dgs is good enough and agree with serious3D that it is the artist that makes the game. I tried unity and i believe it's good and all but i find it hard to get used to. Also i think unity had an overkill with add ons to make game creations easy nice to toy with but not handy if you want to create Something original. I find the forum of unity messy and for complete noobs not so much step by step explenation.

They have graphic good examples and a cool particle system...
3dgs can still make it in this world but it depends on the future updates.Like all things in life it's a matter of taste
and i'll find 3dgs still good enough for me

The shop and demo's overview in unity i really like it's something 3dgs should have to

Realizing you're right actually caused me physical pain. I guess if I wasn't such a fucking aspergers I would've already switched engines.

Edit: but not to unity.

I know... it is also not my way to be a part of the majority. In fact - I never wanted to be.
But, as above written, it is not the engine which brings your animalic instincts to life - it is you - as the developer. And since I work with unity - I have no better tool for my work.
It is a modern system and you can compare the optical components and the fusional work flow with every modern program on the market. Look at poser 2012 / anime or look at the newer generation of adobe ( I use the master collection), sound booth , after effects, pshop... every tool is based on the same wflow principle.

And - just my opinion - you will become a true independent mr. cool just with your product, not with the tools you use.

... but I truly hate their "all with love" forum

it would be fun to know the approx. user quantities of 3dgs, unity and some other game engines too, for each edition (downloads of free, and licences sold yearly). and an estimation of the share of hobbyists, indie developers and companies. really good games are mainly done by teams, and not by a single person, it can also have an effect on how many games released made by an engine.

imo 3dgs is really cool for starting and learning 3d game making, and it's very easy to make small trial projects, and then assemble a simple game from your code and asset pieces. it's a bit old fashioned, reaching pro graphics quality requires complex 3d knowledge, but the price is acceptable also for hobbyists (like me) who live not at the richest part of the planet (I mean of commercial edition). maybe this group is the main target of 3dgs, and the pro edition is rather a shopwindow that shows it is a really professional tool (but in fact pro has some really professional features).

facing unity editor without any 3d knowledge can be a bit frustrating, and you have to deal with and organize a lot of asset and code packages, which needs some practice to be handled fine. but definitely much easier for 3d artists. imo its programming also cool, after I got some experience in delphi, java, and lite-c, I had no problem to do anything I wanted to solve. but for me the free edition is not suitable, and the pro price is well over my budget. but I would rather buy it instead of 3dgs pro.

for small developer teams, I think UDK, Esenthel or maybe Neoaxis also can be an option, but imo they require higher experiences. I like especially Esenthel because it offers both to start from small, and to make an MMO-RPG/FPS based on example game sources available in the shop for a little money (unfortunately its licensing will change to per seat from the current per commercial project).

Neoaxis unfortunately fails so endless much on documentation side... really a shame as I like the rest of it.

facing unity editor without any 3d knowledge can be a bit frustrating, and you have to deal with and organize a lot of asset and code packages


This is not to say , it's the best , but ...
In that point you can find the basic Third person tutorial that explains step by step to make the game stage by stage :
- adding the character
- adding the camera and adjust it
- adding a particle effect and adjust parameters
etc ...
It's really complete and also includes scripting code snippets and some ennemy and basic AI code.

For adding textures models, you have a complete browser panel and where you have created the project where you will be able to import pre defined stuff or simply create new sub categories and add all your stuff.

Well, that you that make a game, not totally the engine.
But yes, good features , easy to apply, more fluid workflow will bring more pleasure to make the game.
A good 3D editor not only the engine counts on people happiness i find , specially non programmers.

With 3DGS you can make lot of little games , or worlds zones loading levels or arcade etc ...
Not all 3DGS users have solide some game idea, and 3D graphic skills ... a lot are more programmers.
Let's hope some future version will attract more skilled team or people on the 3D graphics models and textures side ?

This also popular games that make 3D engines popular also

for me, who earlier made only tiny 2D games in Delphi and Java, it was much easier to start with 3dgs. earlier I worked for a few years as a CAD/CAM engineer, so the editors interface was also easy and clear. (normally it's easy for me to get familiar with unknown editors without tutorials, except Blender and DAZ Studio)

I found unity editor too complex and "too user friendly", did not know what are those hundreds of options, what I have to set and what can I ignore. making a new small project in unity is too complicated, a bit messy, and requires huge disk space, because of importing those packages, comparing to 3dgs where I can clearly use a few files only, and I'm not forced to organize my stuff by an editor, only simply in Total Commander and in my scripts. and I've ever wanted to write 100% own codes, not to use ready made scripts what I don't know deeply, e.g. for camera and character handling. in the other hand, if you don't want to program, only do some level design, and your game has no special game features, you can get a lot of resources for unity for free or for money, it is also a walkable way, but this is not my way.

okay now I'm more experienced, I can handle unity editor, and know most of the available options are what for, or where I can find the info, and I see unity's system is much more up-to-date and more advanced, but for my taste I can organize my work better in 3dgs than in unity, and currently I have in 3dgs what I need.

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but what is more important, for me unity pro is too expensive, and the free edition does not offer: LOD, dynamic shadows, terrain lightmapping, water reflections, hdr. and these are needed for me, and get by 3dgs commercial whose price is acceptable.

moreover, in future I would not move to unity, I would choose rather Esenthel (it can be okay for one person development) or maybe UDK (but this would really require a developer team), depending on my project requirement.

as soon as you understood the principle of the unity editor... you are unstoppable.
You can everything script with UnityJava... but you can use the editor to spare your time und just use a drag an drop system. The game preview is such a great help to adjust every public variable at runtime. In GS - I always have a big waste of time in adjusting some parameters and then look at the result... just to adjust then a little bit more.
In Unity ... you do this in one single way.
Last year, I startet with a GS-project - and just the Panel-Work of the complex menu used about 20 hours. Now I took the pics, imported them in the asset folder... and did the same as with gs in unity... just in about 5 hours. This is a phenomenal earning of time. But to be honestly... I learned during 5 Months (2h per day) to understand the principle of unity.

I made my editor for 3dgs, because I need special AI related things to see visually at design time, so I can make my levels lightning fast now. this was also good for making my own standards for menu panels etc. of course this part could be much better... I also can work in unity fast, e.g. made mesh based tree shadows taking into account sun position within a few days (I mean a few work hours), but I simply won't pay so much money for unity pro to get the missing features...

okay I just played 10000000, made with unity, and I have to say: it's awesome.
fuck.

3gds pro 900 usd vs. unity pro 1500 usd: unity probably a better investment. if you can or have to invest in an advanced but easy to use engine, and want to earn money of your works as fast as possible. but there are other good options too in the market, which can be better sometimes than these 2 ones.

for toying, it does not matter what engine you use, you will definitely make crap.

for a bit more serious hobby development, it heavily depends on your requirements, spare time, and budget what to use. because of no tight deadlines and no AAA quality expected, you can use less advanced or less user friendly softwares, but the result not definitely will be shit. it can be nice and fun to play with, if you are talented.

The main reasons for me to use unity are the supported platforms and because there are a lot job offerings, because unity is some sort of industry standard for small to mid-sized games.

But then you have to go with C#, because most studios are working with it.

I`m learning Unity, too, at the moment. The job market is one of the minuses of Gamestudio, although it`s a nice game development system.

Out of curiosity, what would make any of you switch from the Unity bandwagon to another engine? (Doesn't have to be Gamestudio, I really just want to know what your Unity sweet spot is)

Compared to Gamestudio the job market and the supported platforms are my sweet spots. There`re a lot more perspectives if you`re a good Unity developer or designer. It`s kind of an indutry standard and many (also German) companies are working with it. On the technical side the editor seems to be very powerful because of many advanced features and drag and drop capabilities. The programming part is a bit "crude" because of the component-based scripting system, but I`m not really into this at the moment.

I preferred Unity3D over Unreal Engine, because of the license trouble and the fact that I`d have to learn UnrealScript, which is useless in my eyes. C4 would have been an option if the community was bigger (TML seems to be the only German developer working with it).

Some lonewolf making a game in the Unity WIP section forum just states that switching from CryTeck to Unity editing editor allow him to just produce instantly what he really want ot make.

Here is it's reply to a user question about that :


@Ocid: The ultimate reason that made me switch to Unity 4 after I tried it for a couple of weeks is the sheer ease of use. Everything makes sense and is very well integrated with Maya. No need for any file converters, peculiar material restrictions or jumping through unnecessary hoops. Great documentation, drag-and drop simplicity, FBX and Photoshop support right out of the box, on-the-fly compilation without having to close and then restart the editor... It is obvious that the engine is geared at helping people achieve their vision, whichever it may be.

Oh, and the Mecanim system is absolutely fantastic. Since my professional background is in feature animation, that was really important.
(Original Unity discussion thread :Ghost of a Tale game )



Another discussion on his blog :
But even more than the stunning DX 11 visuals (and don’t forget I’m used to the mighty CryEngine), it’s the ease of use that shocks me most. The user-friendliness. The fact that everything is simple and makes sense. Anyway, I’ll probably post some more about Unity in the very near future…



It only shows and confirms Unity easyness with the editor , drag and drop features, import formats features, and others things are just here to help people work as smooth as possible.
for example instead of restricting you to some formats, tehy have auto converters when you import Blender models direclty for example

The last Mecanism feature and DX 11 in Unity 4 are just pushing indie limits further more !

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Why coding each time redundant animation character features when you have to adjust them only (instead of thousand of code tries , compilation , running/stop to find the good values ?

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It's site and blog about the game and working with Unity :
Seith Blog






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No need to post more about Unity 4 , and the price for Pro version, yes i think this is the BIG ANNOYING thing for all lonewolves ...
Not all perhaps , but for lot of hobbists also.
I will never pay so much, and would pay only having some solid game made with the free version first !

Why? Do you think the price for the Pro version isn't justified? Is there something elementary missing that is a must have for that price?

Since two years I concentrate my work in painting adventures. I think I am one of the panel hardcore users of gs. And of course - I am using wmv-formats.
The thing what I deeply missed in the free version was
"Movie Textures (Pro only) are textures onto which movies are played back."
This was the reason for me to switch to the pro version of unity.

No, that`s some question of saving money. You have to have the money first. And for me personally it`s not possible to spend 1.5k Euro into "some features that I don`t really need for prototyping". That`s why I worked with A5 Extra, A6/A7/A8 Commercial and not with the pro edition for years. And that`s why I`ll work with Unity free until there`s some job that requires me to upgrade. The features of Unity Pro are awesome, of course. As well as Gamestudio A8 Pro is awesome compared to A8 Free / Extra. Its price is justified.

@JustSid:
This... http://tinyurl.com/bgyec9k

But - and this is the big BUT:
No engine is the holy grail!

Here are my thoughts about Unity so far:

-Very powerful
-Used by a lot of companies
-Solid track record
-Damn cheap for its power
-Manual is cluttered and not consistent
-C# is more powerful compared to Unityscript (Javasript) but most examples are written in Unityscript.
-No simple step by step Tutorial for Unityscript and C#
-Lot of overhead for small projects
-Some strange and overcomplicated conventions
-I find it rather unflexible (!)

Compared to other engines I think A8 pro is too high priced atm. It should be something about 600,- usd.

Programmers are lazy. They don´t want to fiddle around with redundant drag and drop and adjusting values for every animation. Insteat of that, they write a tool which automates the whole shebang.

Drag and drop and adjusting values scares me, actually.
I´ve noticed that I barely use the Unity Editor. For the most time I use C# to build the levels on the fly. Of course it depends, for a platformer or an ego shooter I would use the editor. Mainly I want to know exactly what´s going on, so I don´t rely on character controllers and template scripts. Of course I have to make compromises, because when I want to have 100% control over everything I need to write my own engine.

If I ever should find time to work again on a project, I'm still tempted to use Neoaxis.
Possibly not the wisest decission, because Unity simply IS the industry standard and my knowledge gained by working with Neoaxis might be a loss of thime... but then again I somehow feel a lot more familiar with Neoaxis than with Unity after reading tutorials and playing around a bit with both.
Unity was somehow a bit too overwhelming... it possibly needs a longer evaluation time than I had.

Maybe it is useful if someone evaluates the possibilities of Neoaxis in the future

Just please... Ivan... give us a MANUAL.
Really really... This is such a big plus of Acknex. The manual is just great.


My point I don't share with many other developers... I'm actually NOT afraid of scripting - I'm afraid of wasting time in a level editor, because the workflow is bad and I cannot see what happens in realtime. I cannot write a class which allows me to setup advanced things in the editor directly.
I want to place some physic object, some joints in a 3d view and want to throw a ball against it and see what happens.
I want to drop a model in the editor, let it walk a path, adjust the walk speed at runtime, maybe fix the path for not getting stuck at obstacles and the like...

That is what is hurting when working with Acknex.
Neoaxis e.g. offers this, while still being not too far away from scripting.
A big advantage and drawback at the same time is you get a huge template code base and you're supposed to build upon it by inheriting classes.
Sounds like I will have a lot of unused code I've never seen and understood residing somewhere in the project space.
So the recommendation of the Neoaxis dev team is to extend the demo project and when getting to the end rip out the unused parts of the demo.
This is the drawback, as I don't like this approach too much.
When I checked the code, some things like the RTS templates looked far too specialized for serving as generic templates...
Also upgrading to a newer engine version will require merging some classes... yuck!

Lots of blablah from my side... still Neoaxis keeps me interested - currently more than Unity actually. Let's see where this will lead to in the future.

@Firoball: Which language is Neoaxis?

I just started with Unity today and i don't know what i think of it. I just tried some things like movement, animation, ... in script. Works really well but it doesn't feel right sometimes...
it isn't really smooth. also the API isn't documented in any way (I know that it is documented in a documentation, but i hate those people who can't use the built-in documentation features of c#...)

The Editor is great indeed. But there is a lack of documentation in all sections imho...

I want to code in C# so bad, but the acknex wrapper for c# isn't that good that you can code efficient. Maybe i'll start my own again with better support for object orientation...

*Thoughts and feelings out*

Right at the moment I find it overhelming that Unity requires OO. For small games and prototypes OO feels like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. But I hope I´ll get used to it.

Neoaxis is using C#. my main problem is that huge code package which should be used and extended with own classes, I simply can't see through it. probably requires more c# experience. and yes, its documentation is very limited. it's okay if one of the examples covers your game system, you have to tweak it only. its model importing workflow also seems to be not the best.

on the other hand, Esenthel engine (free or 100usd for a commercial project) offers you C++ or its own scripting language lying between C++ and C#. its documentation is also limited, little text and a well commented header browser of engine classes, but there are a lot of small tutorials those can be used for step by step learning, and also as little bricks of your code. its model importing is cool with many formats, visual physX body creation for models fast and easy, you can define and inherit object classes and properties in the world editor easily, its terrain system is perfect for huge worlds (consists of streamed areas), offers navmesh pathfinding, very nice shadows and effects in deferred rendering mode which is fast in DX10+ mode, nice lod with billboards, and fast gpu bone animations, for 5 usd you can have access to make custom shaders, and also you can buy some source codes and game sources (a good quality fps source is free). but it lacks static and dynamic batching/instancing which is cool in unity. you need to put always a terrain in your level, as objects are handled as part of an area, but e.g. somebody is working on a spherical chunked terrain system in Esenthel, so for good programmers it is a nice choice.

I'm also trying UDK, but had little progress in it. I do not care its editor too much, rather its scripting, which simiarly to Neoaxis has a lot of stuff you don't really know what for, and unrealscript is said to be abandoned in next engine release I mean UE4.

I must deeply make a point... if you just want to play around, make small hobby projects and you are a long year user of gs - it does not make a sense to switch to the pro version of unity. It even does not make sense to come closer to the free version. It is right - the main crack is to understand a complete new thinking about developing an app. Unity is like working out a virtual set for a movie. Scene by scene. And yes - if you plan the change there will be a lot of work.

And it is not true, what some freaks here told in the past like
"It was for me no problem to switch" or crap like
"I only need two weeks".

In GS you have one single problem... to work with gs you must understand the
main key - you have to learn scripting. If you don´t learn scripting - you just can
play around with some old editors like med / wed.

When you understood gs and you reached the level "I completed a com game"
(of course - since I am a member of gs, I know, this level was reached only by the minority) you will have 3 problems with unity.

1.
You must understand a complete new developing process ( you must think like creating scenes for a movie - your work on a stage.

2.
You must understand the editor - because you work with the editor (in gs you primary work with the sed!) - and you have a very powerful tool with the unity editor to get some of the biggest needs - time. This includes the cooperation with the script editor.

3.
and you have to handle with a more difficult scripting language.

But If you are willed to do this... it is like changing from
"magix video maker" to "adobe premiere"
"med" to "cinema 4d or max"
"video fx" to "adobe after effects"

The overkill is just to work the new tool out. And for me it was a good step.
But for just play around or get some small jobs - it is not worth.
For me as a lone wolf ( paint / modle / scripting / music) it is the big food the rest of my creative life - or till the next ground breaking engine comes.

O.k. maybe you will have problems to handle the new "all with love" system.
For me as a hardcore black coffee drinker it is not possible to handle with.

btw... if that comes out >> GUI SYSTEM
hm... think about it.

That's the bad side... yes... then again I can just klick on SSAO in the editor, set some parameters and watch it realtime. I can check the impact on the framerate and display the triangulation. I can create path meshes and all that stuff whiel directly looking at the result. I place a camera path and tweak camera movement speed, direction and angle in realtime.

But still I have the fun part - scripting, and it's OOP. C# is quite user friendly and although I have done very little with it yet, it feels good.

There stays the fact, you have a weird codebase which is difficult to understand in parts. And a cumbersome documentation. *deep sigh*

1.
You must understand a complete new developing process ( you must think like creating scenes for a movie - your work on a stage.

2.
You must understand the editor - because you work with the editor (in gs you primary work with the sed!) - and you have a very powerful tool with the unity editor to get some of the biggest needs - time. This includes the cooperation with the script editor.

3.
and you have to handle with a more difficult scripting language.



Seems to come from some Fan ? Well just take the thrid person tutorial, download the level and assets and FOLLOW the tutorial before talking about "Virtual cinema" or whatever

Scripting is Javascript, where it is hard ? All the time is calling Unity 3D functions.
Integrating the script, i don't see the problem.
The code script is like 3DGS actions, but put in Events (init , update ...)

C# is incredibly easy , more natural than Lite C (no initialisations needed, no strange variables etc ...)
And you have just to search for C# package tutorial on their site.

All amazing plugins just proove : LOT OF PEOPLE ACHIEVE TO MAKE PLUGINS (and complicated ones also !)
So yes, full customization for tools.
If you have a team, one member could make tools for your game and entire team ... perhaps easily !


The editor is incredibly easy to put your scene, import new assets, adjust physics, choose shaders ... or you have some problem, OR ALL 3D ARTISTS USING UNITY ARE INCREDIBLY SKILLED FOR EDITORS USE ???

For terrain editor, vegetation, forget the next years ... 3DGS next is new WED and mobile.

Yes this is specific stuff, a learning curve like any engine.
But for lot of trivial things you have visual Helpers like particles panel for behaviour and creation (so easy to make them), character capsule editor etc ...

Or perhaps all 3D artists and specially those that are not 3D game makers are laying saying that it allows them to make what they want ?

If 3DGS is top for you, and you are more than happy, in that case i understand, and can just say : continue and push it to the limits !

in the other case if you don't plan to put one, two months learning another engine , you'll never learn it ... and continue with a closed mind against other 3D engines ...
(Just sorry for you to perhaps pass away from other good 3D engines ??)

I don't prone Unity , i use another indie 3D engine i prefer for many reasons, but after having learning it, using it ... really don't talk about difficulty to customize it or make any special game !
And don't talk about "just push a button and bad sliders", all helpers just avoid you to LOOSE TIME on TRIVIAL STANDARD STUFF !
Capsule visual adjust panel, particle panels etc... you adjust and view in real time instead of coding (tries/error system) , and you can just gain lot of time you can put on lot more specific stuff for your game !

Perhaps you need to program all by yourself like lot of hard core coders ? in that case i understand, fast creation on standard stuff (shaders, terrain, physics ...) and visual tweaking is not your taste !

-----------------------


For Neo Axis , that's really sad that the author don't put much hard work on the docs, the engine have great features and a cool workflow.

Yes, of course - I am a fan of the fantastic unity workflow .
So ratchet, these are my words with the pov of a independent game developer.
As I wrote above... I am developing apps from scratch up to final commercial state.
But maybe I am silly and need longer as everybody else. Maybe I am very slow so I am finally interested in your work. So could you show me some of your published games. Some distributors of yours? Sorry, I am only sporadic in this forum and really want to know the results of yours.

For me it's a passion and hobby, to make 3D stuff and run it with some templates ... no game for now !

Unteal now it has just been cooperation on little 3D teams to make 3D models for them , even i made for lonewolves who never reached to finish a game also.
I have just prototypes mini games, or some features/editors without finishing them for various reasons (3D engine, programming , lacking feature etc ... )
So yes no game, it i selled and finished one , perhaps i would have been on AUM ?

--------------

But don't be so flammed, my intention was nut to hurt your feelings , juts to point out other 3D Tools / engines are not that bad , some mor ecomplicated, some have better features etc ...
And visual Helpers sorry but all 3D artists like them a lot , the more they have to adjust advanced things, the more they go fast and concentrate on other stuff

-----------

I have some RPG idea for PC with 3DGS, like you can see on Projects thread, i've put lot lot of hours and tries, even coding some 3D Tile editor ... TOO TOO MUCH programming, and even more programming for the editor caus i would have to make a complete one as all stuff is placed by reading a file

So this project is stand by or abandonned, until i find a better solution without all amount of coding ...
3DGS with terrain support tools could have been some solution ...
I think i'll do like in the beginning, make the level on bLender, import it in WED than place all stuff ...
3D level creation in MODO

-------------

I've been looking at Ogre 3D and Venetica, TorchLight games, they are amazing using a FREE engine.
But too much C++ for me.

Expect to see some progress on my RPG game with 3DGS i planed (i'll won't use a custom 3D custom level editor .. TOO MCUH WORK AND PROGRAMMING for me) !

One again, my words for other 3D engines and their visual helpers, sliders , additionnal visual tools is to point out that 3D artists like that , to go fast ... SO YES, I LOVE VISUAL HELPERS than programming !
(do you think for a new comer to find a terrain editor, particle editor, HUD editor, etc ...won't help him a lot to go fast if he don't like or don't know a lot of programming and his goal is make a game with standard stuff before ??)

ratchet, have you tried terrain editing with GED? I tried it some days ago and it was pretty good, you could do realtime terrain painting and deformation

Thanks; i'll give it another try.
Last times i tried, it was crashes ... perhaps i used it too intensively ? But if i can put a terrain with multitexture and save it and import it in WED ... it would be good.

imo you will never get a realistic result in GED. and I found GED instable, texture quantity is limited to 3, which is simply not enough.

in Unity it is very cool, I mean the 3rd party extension that can be downloaded separately, I got a lot of inspiration from it when I designed terrain deformation in my editor. in future what I want to complete is implementing terrain erosion, and height and slope based auto texturing. but it will probably require to make/obtain a good terrain shader instead of the currently used terraintex ffe (its main advantages are unlimited textures, ease of use, and compatibility with all engine editions).

in 3dgs it is the best to use L3DT, because of its very easy usage and professional results. or try PnP Terrain Creator, it exports hmp in compatible format with the modified terraintex ffe I use in my editor (based on MQ32's idea, posted in Future section). both tools are free.

the terrain deformation in my editor is rather for post-processing ready terrains to fine tune surface due to the actual gameplay requirements. the result can be saved as hmp or in an own format, but modified textures can be saved only as external image files, I was unable to solve it to be saved as hmp.

Yes terrain for 3D artists, is not with 3DGS.
And GED was too much unstable, even WED , SED i make them crash when clicking on things they don't wait or expect
(but it's just clickin on their menus)

But well some people make amazing games with 3DGS using their own programming (superCan game), but you will need to PROGRAM lacking tools.

I started my 3D experience with 3DGS, and decided not to switch to Unity because my plan was that I make my WYSIWYG level editor(s) for my game (and other tools), and it seemed to be, and finally it was indeed relatively easy in 3DGS + Lite-C (and was the best way to learn this engine).

in Unity I would have needed more programming experience to make editor plugins. I don't really know how it works for WED, but in other engines I checked (Neoaxis, Esenthel, UDK) there are good/great possibilities to do it, e.g. by creating custom object classes.

from the Unity-Forum... this is true retro!
Sounds like threads from Gamestudio from the year 2000....
They start with a big aaa-Picture and show 3 weapons


The Outbreak is going to change the way people play open-world zombie survival games. Planning to have 60 people per server, with a map that is over ...


When we think of an open-world zombie sandbox, we think of games that leave out the realism to a real zombie apocalypse.


We all know when you play a game like this, ...
In this game, we wanted to incorporate a lot of weapons...

We don't want this game to be a walking simulator because of the map being so large. ...

When we said we wanted a realistic game, we meant it.

This adds a whole new different perspective on open-world zombie sandboxes.

L4D, Dead Island, Day Z, War Z, Unity Z ...... Zombies everythere.

Time to make an Pro-zombie game like "Stubbs the zombie".

Yeah "Zombie Commander"... start with an single infected person and grow your herd till the whole town is yours. Next level = next town.

Addon for the Game comes as "Zombie Commander 2 (Japan Overun)", "Zombie Commander 3 (visit Europe)".... and so on.

Im' borred like lof of people (and some part of gamers ) about Zombies !
Zombies in each FPS ... why, because they are stupid, walking not so fast, because they are a lot in front of you , they are stupid and group together ready for you to shoot them (what would not do a good ennemy AI) !
Well i'm like some other part of players who likes lot more unique FPS games like Bioshock, Deus Ex 1, Metroid 3D series etc ...

i really love zombie games where zombies are actually a really hard enemy (DayZ, ZombieU, ...)
But i have to say, Deus Ex, Deus Ex HR, Bioshock, Borderlands, ... are really good games. Deus Ex with its dark, futuristic setting, Bioshock because of the good ol' times, Borderlands because it's just freaky...
But what's really missing out there is a good steampunk game

yeah a crazy steampunk would be nice, I just thought of it last week it would require creativity to build up an own world that neglects clichés, I like these kind of challenges...

Even in movies zombies are rarely convincing. In general, it is very difficult to reach authenticity, because the behavior of zombies is usually adapted to the needs of the film. When speaking of games, it's therefore a logical reasoning to make them for a shooter faster, stronger and more flexible than in e.g. Night of the living Dead - because if they weren't, they would be an easy target. To make a truly authentic zombie game, you would have to make the player as vulnerable and helpless, as it would likely be in a real apocalypse without medikits, without firearms and being infected as soon as you get bitten.

Does anybody know the film Wasting Away? This film is an oddball comedy from the perspective of zombies themselves. It is quiet funny and a quiet interesting approach. I tell you no secret that this is a niche, which is not yet exploited.

don't really know how i came across this thread again but about unity growing:

those team images get wider and wider. they are approaching 200 employees.

i still think that a nice, simple but useful engine for indie games could be done by a very small team. but a competitive WED and MED? not really...

The thing is that gamestudio has MED, Unity has not (afaik)
I just hope the new WED will bring some cool new stuff with it. Maybe not as powerful as the Unity Editor, but if it would be just a bit like it, WED would increase a lot in productivity

Too many cooks spoil the soup.

Unity <3

Unity </3

<3 - looks like a penis so I'm totally agree! ^^

Like a short penis!

OMG. That's got to be one of the funniest things I've read today. GameStudio has ... MED? MED is terrible and almost useless. I cringe just about any time that I fire up that program. It's outdated, unnecessarily difficult to use (compared to other 3D modeling software), and lacking in features.

Unity doesn't have something like MED because it doesn't NEED something like MED. There are plenty of free and inexpensive modelers out there that run circles around MED's ancient and outdated code.

... you may return to your regularly scheduled programming at this time ...

MED is perfectly fine to use for non-organic or simple stuff, not for humans or animals though.
However, I think the new WED replaces both the old WED and MED, i.e. you can edit the models directly in the level editor. Not sure how this will work out, though.

My dad has athlete's foot and I dont. Awesome, isn't it?

Yeah it is
But i (in a programmers point of view) don't want to learn into blender or 3ds max. Most times i need a model which is a half sphere or some kind of splitted up plane. How do you do this in Unity with about 2 Minutes of work?
I have such primitves faster modeled than 3dsMax takes to start.
So MED has definitly its use although not for the design/visual part of you game.

No. Not really. Not in my opinion. Sure, you can indeed create with it. But it is not 'perfectly fine'. Not when there are free alternatives out there (and, no, not just Blender).

Blender and 3ds max are not the only options. Here's a very feature rich (and free for now) alternative for modeling called NVIL:

http://digitalfossils.com/

Of course, Wings3D is still out there. I think Daz3D is still offering Hexagon for free. And there are more. And, frankly, they are easier to learn to use, more advanced.

Yes, it is (!) perfectly fine for what it is meant to be and this is no matter of opinion but probably a concept you did not understand yet.
3D Gamestudio is a game development suite, not an engine alone, primarily aimed at beginners or hobbyists which gives you all the necessary tools (except a painting program) to create your own (first) games. You don't have to spend weeks to learn something as complex as Blender or get another free or paid tool from some other place but instead you can get the hang of MED in half a day. Many people probably don't even want to learn or get into such advanced tools, and no one forces the advanced or interested users to design and animate in MED.
Thus it is just plain stupid when forum users ask for the abandonment of MED, and I've always hated it when they did, it's such a narrow-minded and selfish attitude...

imo 3dgs is a nice beginner/hobbyist package, you get everything you need to get started in a simple form, and features probably the easiest scripting language. but it's not so easy to simply achieve something more advanced and really cool looking. the editors are definitely outdated, I hope we can see soon some screens of the new WED, currently I don't know its concept, only that it focuses on 'ease of use', so we have a great chance of missing advanced features...
unity requires a bit more knowledge to use effectively, and requires more investment which is too high for a hobbyist, but can be payed by real game developer studios.
for RPG, RTS, or FPS I would rather choose Esenthel or UDK than Unity, they are more budget friendly, and has ready code packages (their exploration requires time but it does worth it).

Superku, MED is a terrible piece of programming and the weakest part of GameStudio. This is not just a matter of one person's opinion. MED is based on ancient technology and has hardly changed since the days of it's predecessor, a Quake modeling tool (certainly you remember Quake and when that was originally released, right?).

And, yes, GameStudio is a development suite but, as you pointed out, it is missing a paint program. It is also missing tools to create sounds and music. It is missing tools to create video. So, really, apart from coding, it is missing any tool you would need in the creation of a game except for creating 3D geometry. And both provided tools (both MED and WED) are outdated tools that make it difficult to create anything more than the basics.

Other engines are missing various things, but also have various other tools that GameStudio may be lacking.

RealSerious3D@ thats the worst bullshit I've heard since ratchet left us I can't stop laughing about the shit you've said about video/audio and paint tools, which are missing (?) in GameStudio too! I'll leave everything you've said uncommented, but just one question... Is there a complete game engine out there, which has (oh my.. ) video/audio/painting (ROFL) editors, plus easy-to-use and understand but yet powerful language, script editor, world editor, model editor and all for 100 bucks? Tell me, and I'll buy one! And no, I don't want to hear a bullshit about that MED sucks and terrible. I'd rather say that your hands growing out of your ass instead, cause there are many users out there, who proved that MED (even if it's not aimed to, as it's more a conventional tool, and don't you dare to compare this with a fully stand-alone tools, which are created for modeling, animations and so on? Would you compare a bicycle with a BMW? it looks like you do.. ) can create perfect models for indie titles (not AAA, don't mess up!). Search for a lady member of this community, her name was Otter I guess, she created lots of characters with MED, and they all have perfect, commercial quality! All of them with vertex animations!

All in all, not meant to offend, but I just couldn't take this senseless argue any longer. MED and Acknex are powerful, but unfortunately they are going out of popularity.

@3run: MED is far away from beeing powerful. Would you call MSpaint powerful? You can do awesome stuff with it, I think you know some of the videos. But I wouldnt call it powerful. MED is a nice tool for beginners or people who don´t need a full fledged modelling software.

I was about to refer to Otter as well. This said, I may give you a friendly advise:

RealSerious3D has a lot more experience then you, he´s one of the first time users of gamestudio and has done a lot of work for conitec. You should watch your language in general, but even more when you´re talking to a true veteran.

fogman@ thank you for advise, but I'm not here since yesterday as well, you know? And I'm agree with you, that everyone (not only me) should watch their language, and respect each other as well, not only 'true' veterans, all users should be respected around this forum! I'm not going to argue, who has more experience or not you know. I'm not going to complain who's dick is shorter or so, what for? It doesn't affect on my respect to anyone...

BUT I will not reject any of my words above, as I have my opinion (and there is no way for it to be more polite this time) about all of those stuff RealSerious3D just said. I still think that everything he said about video/audio/painting tools is bullshit that I've never heard before on this forum. As non one really asked for a video tool for game creation?? Especially for the price, that people pay for Acknex (even pro version.. whic is yeah, could be more cheaper as well.. professional audio tool, will cost you pretty more than commercial version of Acknex and without any build-in plugins or so, and will be way more costly with all stuff it).

About MED. It's not powerful if we compare it with a stand-alone modeling tools, sure (but there is no way for anyone to say that it's terrible, cause that will mean that you don't really understand it's main purpose!). But why do you need to compare it with those tools?? MED - is more a conversational tool, and it's even more than one! And if your hands aren't growing right from your ass and you have a bit of patience, you'll be able to get some awesome results with it! But still, it's not a powerful stand-alone modeling tool! And don't compare it with any others out there! It's like comparing inflatable doll with a girlfriend, pretty coarsely!

So please, I respect everything you've said to me, and I appreciate your friendly advice, but please don't talk to me, as I'm here for about two days! As I've done a lot myself too (not FOR myself). And as I've said in previous post, I didn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinion, yes, maybe a bit too rough but thats the only way I could express my feeling about some one asking for a video/audio/painting tool for 100 bucks!


With friendly greetings

Sorry, but this is just typical fanboy-talk.

MED helpful because it is a converter? Unity does that on the fly. Great Tool when you are patient? So is paint, but I'd rather use Photoshop or Gimp.

However, gamestudio advertises itself to be a complete suit, thus the video/audio point of RealSerious3D is fair

3run,
I don´t said that you´re not experienced (I know your stuff and it´s pretty amazing) and Dan hasn´t asked for a painting tool inside Gamestudio. It was just his response to superku´s point that Gamestudio is a complete solution.
It isn´t, because a complete solution needs a paint tool as well.

Don´t get me wrong, I love MED and I use it pretty often when I do Gamestudio stuff. But I can also understand Dan´s points.

[edit]



No. I mean, come on, it´s just another engine with lots of good and bad things.
If you´re heading for windows only theres no need to switch "ASAP".

Rei_Ayanami@ why are you here then 'funboy'?! Don't miss your chance, go and give unity the best blowjob you've ever made in your life!


fogman@ I guess that I've probably got Dan's position wrong. If so, then I apologize for offensing him or anyone else if I did. But if not, then I still have my point.


Edit: ohh.. Rei I just saw your signature now. So I guess my question goes useless now, as it seems that you had gave your best blow to IT already Have a nice day.


Greets

Actually I am not a Unity fanboy, since I would switch any second if I see something else good. (I am really hoping for the secret project of some guys here to turn out great )

Though, I have to admit, I only switched to Unity because of a job, and not because I thought it was awesome in the first place. Eventually it proved me wrong and I stayed.

Rei_Ayanami@ don't make me laugh out my pants.. have you seen your signature, not unity fanboy?
Well, never mind anyway, cause I don't really care.. If I won't see upgrades soon for the Acknex, then I'll think about other engine.

The next beta won't be out until next month. According to JCL, they have not given A9 any thoughts as yet. So ...

No, I could wait till next month! You won't see me off this forum this easy guys

Oh, it's not the beta projection that gets me. It's that no thought has been given to A9. None. If it takes 1-2 years to get a new engine out there, then we have a long, long wait before we ever see A9 ... if it ever comes out.

Whats so exciting about a version number?

Sheesh. Really? A 'version number' represents progress in the program. In the case of GameStudio, it normally means new features, big improvements, etc. Compare A3 to A4, A4 to A5 and on up the line. A3 was like Doom, a raycasting engine. The fact that they are not even thinking about A9 seems to indicate that GameStudio is at a dead end as far as the developers are concerned.

Oh ... and a 'version number' also means upgrade sales and possible new sales. This is how the software is funded. So the big deal is that without an upgrade path or an updated, more advanced program to attract new buyers, GameStudio is dead.

Well this sounds more like JCL's playing the nice guy...
I would've thought that Android support and new editors would make up a new engine version instead of giving it away for free to current engine owners. That probably would have generated some sales...

A version number is a number. Nothing less, nothing more. Programs with different version numbers don't even need to be different at all.
Many new features arrived here without a major version number change and - according to jcl - the new WED and android support will as well.
It could also indicate that they don't want to charge us for updates. But that won't fit so well into your gamestudio-is-dead philosophy, will it?
Yeah, sure, without changing the version number they will go bankrupt. That sounds plausible...

Well, enjoy your delusions. I've been with GameStudio since v3. In all those long years, never has their beta cycle (and version release cycle) been this slow, this far behind. And never have they admitted to not thinking about the next version.

I don't have any delusions. I'm just saying that waiting for the things to come is better than blubbering around and complaining about a version number not changing. I've been with Gamestudio myself since A3. I know it's history as well as you do.

I think it will go as follows, based on speculation and statements:
- The Android support won't come with A9 or for free, it will be an optional license that you can purchase when it's done.
- The new WED which replaces both the current WED and MED will be released for A8 and be tested by its beta testers and regular users.
- A few month after that A9 will be announced, and the 3DGS homepage will be redesigned using screen shots from the new WED.
- Then they will probably think about a Mac/ Linux port, depending on the sales numbers of the Android plug-in and of GStudio in general.

I certainly hope that is the case, Superku. That would be nice. I would just like to see the development return to something close to what it was in the past (new betas coming out at least once a month) instead of these long, dry periods.

Jcl has in fact admitted very often that he has no clue when A7/A8 will be out. And back at A6.31 there was a very, very long period without any updates (more then a year).
I'm no fan of this update cycle either, but it's not the first time that we face it.

The real hassle in game development is not the production of the game itself. The main hassle is to make a game stable enough for distribution (polished, bulletproof, localizable, compatible to a lot of resolutions, etc, etc...). I find Unity and Gamestudio are quite comparable at this point.

imo it was not a bad decision to concentrate on a totally new, more integrated and up-to-date editor (and of course on zorro ), than adding new engine features continuously. and the android port seems to be a must today. they can attract new users and keep the old ones.

lite-c is great, only more visual editing and much better workflow what are urgently needed. every engine is a product thus sales driven, and the developers has to decide what is more important, and of course it does not definitely meet the requirements of all users, including me (e.g. I don't really use WED and MED so I would work without the new one too).

yes so it will.

But sometimes crazy things will happen. Like my Budgie who died this morning. no joke - he's realy gone today..

So, because gamestudio shrank to an one-man-show what will happen if JCL quit his work for several reasons ?
naaaa ? .... Gamestudio were past.

At the unity side you could exchange the half of the whole team without killing the engine.


So.... better not getn married with gs 4ever Hey.... but I'm not a betrayer. I have no relation to unity and would carring a GS4ever tattoo on my left arm.

there are many other engines having minimal staff, some of them will be dead, some can move on: C4, Neoaxis, Esenthel...

When I asked JCL about A9 he did not say he did not know when A9 would be released. He said this (and it is a quote):



That would indicate that no work has begun on A9 at all. This would indicate that they have not (yet) considered A9 or what A9 would include as a feature set. This would indicate that there is NO A9 at all (at least not yet). And, so, if they do begin work on A9 it will be a long, long time before we see anything ... if at all.



I remember this. Thanks for pointing it out. However, the BETA forum was active with many beta releases. So while there was a long period of time between official updates, beta updates were pretty regular. The last beta (v8.42) was released in early December. It is now May. I don't recall a space of 5 months between beta releases.

We are at 8.42, of course there are no plans for A9. And to be specific, jcl has stated often in the past that there are no thoughts about A7 / A8. Especially when the engine is at version X.5 or X.4.
I would be disappointed if A9 comes out in a few months, because i would feel a bit ripped of, assuming that a new version comes out every three years. Because it would mean that I have to invest money.

In the past new engine versions have not contributed "killer features". The engine evolves rather independend from its (integer) version numbers, at least that's my experience with gamestudio.

Edit: ok, I have to admit that in june A8 is indeed 3 years old. So it would be time for a new version. Ah well, time flies by....

From Gamestudio's own Wiki page:



In some cases, a total engine rewrite was a part of the version release. That's pretty major.

Also, concerning the free updates to owners, the Wiki page says this:



It has been 5 months already with no new beta, let alone a free release to existing owners. And, yes, I do realize that there have been dry spells in the past.

To be honest I don't get your point at all. Is this complaining ending in itself? Or what do you intend with it?

It's called responding. It's a thread, a conversation. And this is the RANTS section of the forum, isn't it?

Hell yeah, but what is your point? Acknex is dead and so, or what?

Yeah, it sure is. Feel free to let go any negative feelings... I was just wondering...

tjey can't release A9 in 2013, as there was an awful endless long period with no/only minimum updates.
Bringing A9 in 2013 would be a huge rip off to anyone who payed for A8 just before the development stopped!

imo there are so many other features to improve than rewriting the engine core again just to release A9, not only killer new editors and asset importers, they are a must to stay alive, similarly to android support, but things like:
- an official forwards and a deferred renderer and shader package that really works, nice and fast, customizable like shade-c,
- or at least rework the current ones to be 99% bug free ,
- or update the physx version,
- or a navmesh pathfinder,
- or official tutorials (written and videos) going into details, covering not only the very basics as currently,
- or official open source (or buyable for a few dollars) commercial grade sample games in several genres (the best way of debugging an engine is to make a game by it),
- or a free but good quality graphics asset pack for newbies because it is much better feeling to start with something nice than with old crap (it would probably result in more nice work-in-progress project screenshots, what I usually check when want to test a game engine),
- or allowing terrain lod for commercial edition,
- or allowing bone animation shader for commercial edition,
- or move all pro features to commercial edition and kill pro edition,
- or real support for large open levels by terrain streaming (and of the entities placed on them, and their textures),
etc.
probably I missed a lot of other very important things, they are just my first thoughts.

Not going to happen any time soon, its pretty obvious that development is now low priority.

You guys are pretty much like husbands that know you're being cheated on but too in-love to do anything about it, "she still loves me!". lol

that describes it pretty well.

wrong way.

it was just a list of important features versus new engine core (if I would be the developer), not a must to have list. actually I don't need them, my developments are fine with current features, as long as my reported bugs (a few ones per update) are fixed as in past (but yes, this long update time is now annoying, if you have a commercial project with strict deadline. but I don't have one).

but the decision is simple:
- if you find yourself always complaining of engine limitations or missing features, or hate the workflow, or feel uncomfortable, you definitely need another engine,
- if you can solve by 3dgs what you need, in the way you like (or at least accept), you are in the right place.

about that husband thingie: in certain periods I evaluate other engines, examine and compare the features I need. the price is also important, I would never give more than say 250 USD for an engine licence, because it is only a hobby for me. imo there are better options than Unity free, thus Unity is growing without me of course, if you do game developing as a job, or as a part of a dev team, you have different priorities and budget, and probably a totally different decision result, what does not have any effect on my opinion.

Well, my programmers are currently checking Unity out for a mobile port and so far
there are lots of good and bad which means a long climb from scratch to actual production as we work out what Unity provides, what we need, what we can get and how can we work around shortfalls...

Also trialling Skyline out, another competitor for Unity but miles away from releasing yet.

As always, its what you can drive that determines if you get there or not isn't it?

depending on your mobile game, you could test Esetnhel 2.0 released a few months ago. supports pc, mac, ios, android, only 199 USD, but the editor is not so shiny as unity. it has a free demo version with some example projects and the tutorial samples for testing.
sometimes I do some test works in Esetnhel 1.0 (it is not available anymore, but has the same engine core as 2.0, and still can be updated). it features a very effective script package (C++) for rpg or shooters, what I want to extend towards the startegy genre, but I miss some optimization tools. its workflow is fine for me.

Thanks Sivan, will do....

http://blogs.unity3d.com/2013/05/21/putt...bile-developer/

In short: iOS and Android basic versions for free. Smart move.

nice

Increadible... Thanks for the hint!

I already moved to unity...like a year ago...I just stop by here once in a while to see if there will ever be an A9 ver.....but I seriously doubt it....and "zorro" WTF...I gimmicky money making scheme stuff...I've lost all respect for the company here.(conetc)

Have you realized that zorro is freeware?

I like Gamestudio3D (flexibel / no nonsense, helpfull community) but they need to fix that damn ATI incompatibility with heavy games (or atleast with my heavy games :p).

Unity xbox360 / xbox one / win8 / windows phone for free if you are a unity pro user:
http://blogs.unity3d.com/2013/06/27/build-conference/

I took a look at the newest Unity version yesterday again. The editor is still an eyecatcher and the rendering including shadows etc looks nice. But the learning material is a mess! There are 1000 tutorials for beginners but no structured one for people who are experienced in game design. Furthermore, I only found video tutorials and no written one that explains building a simple 3rd person game.

there are written ones too, and some example projects, I downloaded them probebly from unity webpage a while ago, but for Unity 3. video tutorials are very time consuming, I use them very rarely... I found a link now : http://unity3d.com/gallery/demos/demo-projects

Well they have more or less lately started their "Learn" segment so there currently just are rather basic things plus the Stealth project which I think is pretty great for a free tutorial. More advanced stuff is going to take its time as tutorials (especially good ones) don't write themselves...

Apart from that one can find extensive amounts of tutorials in the teaching category in the forums - I especially liked what BurgZergArcade did: http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial

Looking for written tutorials probably limits the amount suitable tutorials as video tutorials seem to be what most people ask for nowadays and I see why this is (it has its cons when you want to go back to a certain step but good video tutorials are way more easy to follow since there can be extensive comments on the code written and for explaining things like the editor videos are superior to a written text)...

Written tutorials over video tutorials anytime, dont want listen hours to some nerdy voice (my rule of thumb; only do 'voice casting' when it is above average). Plus you have to press pause all the time etc. *continues reading the gamestudio 3d manual*

hehh, unity 4.2 free now features hard shadows for sun, and some level of navmesh pathfinding (I found no exact definition of it). do they want to kick out 3dgs free?

Yes, maybe, but I think they won't succeed. 3DGS is very easy to use, but Unity isn't. I've tried to use Unity, but I dropped it away, because it's too hard to use.

Serious question: Can Unity do everything 3DGS can do? I mean, with 3DGS you can in theory realize any game you want to make - be it a multiplayer shooter or some Skyrim style RPG or the next Diablo or even a World of Warcraft clone.
Unity seems to be less flexible on first looks, didn't work my way into it yet though. Should I switch to Unity while I still can?

I have only little experience with unity3d, I prefer 3dgs, especially after I upgraded to commercial, a new world opened up.
unity is definitely a well developed engine having a lot of advanced features (mainly available only in Pro which is very expensive), and more up-to-date in technology, has a nice editor, but requires some 3d knowledge to start with, and a bit more organized work and pre-designed game concept because of object oriented programming. its editor has a lot of features what makes life easier, and what I would like to see in the new WED, like terrain editor, vegetation editor, particle editor, and how game objects can be built up from components, and everything can be seen in real-time.
personally I like the simplicity of 3dgs usage in contrary with unity omplexity, but in 3dgs there are a lot of things you have to do by yourself if you really want to utilize all the engine features effectively - this is why I made my own game editor instead of using WED.

Feindbild, Unity can also, in theory, realise any game you want to make. It also supports more than just Windows, hence my switch to Unity.

It's quite a different workflow, but for me it has been worth the change.

Unity gets ugly when doing lowlevel stuff... A8 is easy there.