Unity sucks, and so do you

So, lately I've seen two claims made about Unity by users from this forum:

• Unity games are all bad (ie you can't make good games with Unity)
• Unity users only make casual mobile games

And of course that Unity has a horrible community, but let's discuss this some other time.
The problem I have with the two claims is that some, not all, of you are trying to gain the moral highground over Unity. Fanboyism aside, but that's pretty stupid. The "look what Unity is capable of, lololol" has set a new low record for the "we are better because meh" bar, because you are trying to make a point that doesn't exist and then circlejerk so hard that it feels like being in a sauna for homosexuals (not that I have anything against homosexuals, being bisexual myself). Did you guys already forgot about the HDR emulation of the Bus simulator? Or all the other crappy Gamestudio games? Seriously, you point out a bad game and laugh about it while crying about the downfall of Gamestudio. Okay, maybe you are just a bunch of cynic grumpy bastards that sit on their front porch, dreaming of the good old days while slowly waving the Gamestudio flag over a field that everyone else stopped caring about.

Here is the point, Unity has a huge community and obviously not everyone is making a AAA title there. Not everyone has the skills, time, assets or strength to pull that off, and that's fine. A good casual game isn't anything anyone should be ashamed of, it's the opposite, finishing a game, no matter how simple, is an astonishing feat. Not every Gamestudio title is an AAA game either, so what?
Truth be told, it's impressive what the Unity community is able to pull off, and yes, there is crap, but come on, we have produced crap as well in the past.

And just a reminder, there are incredibly good games made with Unity, Kerbal Space Program (I frigging love that game), Endless Space, Ravensword etc.

Now, I'm not saying that Unity is better than Gamestudio, at the end of the day, all that counts is that YOU use what gets the job done best for you. If that's Unity, then that's just fine, if it's Gamestudio, fine too, if it's any other engine: That's fucking fine as well. Use the tool that is perfect for your taks and that get's the job done for you.

Now stop being hypocritical assholes for once and finish your game.

PS: Some more hypocritical bullshit some here come up with: Mobile is stupid because mobile is casual. Well, alright, you don't have to like casual or mobile gaming, whatever. But how the hell are you able to cry about the non-existant mobile support for Gamestudio at the same time? "Oh dear, Gamestudio will die because there is no mobile support. Also, guys, I think that all mobile games suck because they are casual and there is no real immersion. Unity sucks, amirite?". Ugh.
PPS: Ratchet, if you try to turn this into a Unity vs Gamestudio debate, I will move your posts into an extra thread (that counts for everyone else as well)

Well nice arguments but no, you are wrong, this is only possible with Unity. /thread

I think the reason for all this you are talking about are the high change costs: the more you are used to an environment the higher the costs are to change completely to another environment, meaning of course the money for buying licenses and of course the very much time to get on the same level as you already were in your previous familiar environment.

So, pointing out one feature and saying this can be done as well in my environment is pretty simple because you know how to do it and it is almost no challenge to you. But imagining to change to the new environment just for this one feature creates for most people some sort of fear and discomfort. So, they rather take the easy path and recreate it in their comfort zone and are even more happy because "they can do it like the big guys".

That's like gaining moral high-ground over a saw with a hammer.
I can only speak for me here, but it's just great to see that you can fuck up even with the almighty unity. There are tons of surrealy bad games made with gamestudio. And all this "oh my god gamestudio is dead. We all have to switch to unity!!11" ranting really annoys me. Especially as there is a new thread with this bullshit every five minutes. So it's pretty relaxing to see a bad unity game. Apart from that the animations are funny regardless of the engine used.

yes we all of remaining 3DGS users have our reasons to do it the gamestudio way.

Its sad that many friends switched the engine but thats the life. Some moves on and new check in.

Sure Unity is not that bad. But for me I did spend time and money in Acknex engine.

BEcause I dont develop games as mainbusiness I came to the conclusion. What I dont arrive with acknex , I'm unable to do with any other engine.

So I work on an demo this days....the gamestudio way.

@JustSid :
I htink i posted too much today and talk too much about Unity LOL

Now, I'm not saying that Unity is better than Gamestudio, at the end of the day, all that counts is that YOU use what gets the job done best for you. If that's Unity, then that's just fine, if it's Gamestudio, fine too, if it's any other engine: That's fucking fine as well. Use the tool that is perfect for your taks and that get's the job done for you.

I TOTALLY AGREE.



PS: Some more hypocritical bullshit some here come up with: Mobile is stupid because mobile is casual. Well, alright, you don't have to like casual or mobile gaming, whatever. But how the hell are you able to cry about the non-existant mobile support for Gamestudio at the same time? "Oh dear, Gamestudio will die because there is no mobile support. Also, guys, I think that all mobile games suck because they are casual and there is no real immersion. Unity sucks, amirite?". Ugh.

After playing some mobile games, i just can say some are really addictive, you have fun, it's like old games on CPC 464, you just push start, perhaps some intro screens , and let's go , just play.
And some RPG have a big quality.
So no mobile is not only casual.


PPS: Ratchet, if you try to turn this into a Unity vs Gamestudio debate, I will move your posts into an extra thread (that counts for everyone else as well)

YOU ARE RIGTH.
THANKS TO REMEMBER ME , THAT I SHOULD AVOID TALKING UNITY, ESENTHEL , OGRE 3D etc ... WE ARE USING 3DGS.
AND YES IT WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN 3DGS OR UNITY, LIKE UT3 DEV KIT IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TEAM WITH YOU.

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OK , i htink i will remember to avoid to be stupid and turning each time i see Unity word somewhere in some Vs flamewar.

Perhaps it's to hurry up Conitec to deliver Android, but well it will be ready when it will be ready not before, and i don't think i'll put any pressure by doing some flamewars also , and i will only annoy people.

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It's like going to some dancefloor and saying , hey it's better to go to a super bar near here, they have that and that ... and front of you they say :
What are you talking about, don't you have some fun here ? so stop talking about what is elsewhere and just enjoy here !

This is 3DGS Forums, just enjoy A8
(even if we hope better thinsg on the future)

every musician has theire style ...every game/coder has theire engine needs and
preference .. i jump around and explore , depending on what
i want to do i choose an engine per game/idea

Yes, Unity sucks. Nope, we don't suck.
There are so many logical flaws in your argumentation it makes my head hurt. But since you're just acting up again and no one is taking this serious anyways I'm not gonna point them out.


Also:
ACKNEX IS DYING
UNITY IS TEH SUXX0R
JCL FIX MY LIFE ALREADY
I'M GOING TO CRY MYSELF TO SLEEP TODAY BECAUSE I WILL NEVER FINISH THAT ONE GAME CONCEPT THAT MADE ME LEARN CODING (ah that one is probably true)


1/10 made me reply
2/10 I like your new avatar
Also, I'm too much of a fucking asperger's anyway so it's virtually impossible for me to switch to Unity after years of using Acknex.

My opinion on 3DGS:
From A6 onward the engine went downhill due to various reasons which I don't want list in detail here. When reaching A8 it already was far from being state-of-the-art in terms of what other semi-professional engines (like Unity) could deliver. Then the development basically stalled due to dubious MMO developments and lately the Zorro project. That's why 3DGS as rather sub-par engine started to hopelessly fall behind and I don't really see why this engine nowadays would appeal to new users despite extremely rare conditions. The tools are very outdated, the featureset is "okayish" at its best and the proprietary language of Lite-C also isn't that appealing...

Congratulations on your 1.000th post being an Acknex-bashing-post.
You're such a traitor, man.

I'd rather call it the millenium post of truth...
And I don't see any bashing in my comment. It's just me thinking that:

a)
3DGS took a couple of steps in the wrong direction during its development.

b)
Sometimes had bad luck (e.g. Lite-C source code comments in Mandarin).

c)
Had its development put on hold for literally years.

d)
Had an ever shrinking team of developers.

Adding up all of these problems 3DGS in my opinion nowadays is hardly competitve. That doesn't make e.g. Unity the all superior engine but ... well in most aspects it actually is superior hence its success...

Where did you get this info?

I think JCL wrote this quite a long time ago. They hired someone who did code Lite-C for them and that guy obviously was Asian. In some discussion of why development took so long someone - I think it was JCL - mentioned that people at Acknex recently were flabbergasted when looking into the source code of the said Asian developer who left after getting Lite-C done. Afaik we were told that this was why certain developments took a little bit longer as they had to decipher what certain things meant...

Yes i know for A6 empty years , and slow progress, nothing significtant for A8 after A7.



Lot of people here don't make any games , just code, visual stuff, this is not very different from me making little prototypes ?
Well enought fights ...
Let's forget this useless flamewar.

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So it's not Unity, if Unity won't exist, believe me we would be comparing with any other advanced or UT3.

Let's just use it , and perhaps make a game with it ?
And people that stay,enjoy and have fun ...
There is nothing to defend, A8 is as it is, it's to you to keep it and use it in a clever way (Superku , Dungeon Dities, Battle For Forgol games).

Unity is assimilating you. Resistance is futile.

So it is a Borg cube in their logo after all...



It all makes sense now...

In each Empire living Rebells in the Underground, defending their states.

So like John Conner we fight against.....mmhhh....until Unity3D buy us all with a full featured version for an low price

Only that would break our Resistance !

So let us all call for Freeeeedooommm. (f*ck...we're not free....we're catched by Acknex and it never let us go )

Welcome to the Hotel California

exactly, I'm totally sure

imo if unity would release an intermediate version for a few hundred usd/eur, that would really kill a lot of other engines, but also decrease their pro sellings significantly. I think they investigated well the market, and can expect such an edition.

Even if it was free I'd still tell Unity to fuck off.
It's not actually about Unity being "better", I think Unity focuses on totally different games than Gamestudio.
It's more the envy that Unity has a huge userbase, tons of third-party-addons and actually feels like we're in 2013.

f*ck...we're not free....we're catched by Acknex and it never let us go
LOL

An intermediate version of Unity, it's already cheap for such advancde stuff, engine following proressing each year a lot and bringing very advanced tools and features each time.

@Sajeth :
It's not actually about Unity being "better", I think Unity focuses on totally different games than Gamestudio.
LOL


And Unity don't constraint you to any game genre, you have MMo, racing, rpg, FPS, casual ... stop saying non logic and non sense arguments really.

Why not saying UT3 is bad also ?
Caus there is indie people making and selling games with it also.
I just don't like their license.


tons of third-party-addons and actually feels like we're in 2013.
There are incredibly usefull plugins.
Also for non programmers, you want to make a 2D game, just choose the available plugins that will help you directly jumping on creation.
There are awesome terrain extensions, new geometry tools, even some in editor real time modeler.

It's a totally open and easy to make plugins system :
SO YES, THIS MAKES YOU FEEL IT'S 2013.
Caus it's not a closed 3D editor like others, you can make your own plugins you would need, your own extensions, your own personnal tools for the editor.

I don't say it's the best but tell me what other engine allow you to make plugins so easyly ?

You are so obstined
Well you like a lot 3DGS indeed, and we do also, where is the problem ,love 3DGS, but don't say all other stuff is bad.

I have to say: I won't switch to Unity. I don't like the editor, i don't like their scripting API, i don't like it at all.
Same for UDK. It's free, but i didn't found a way to program it in a programming language, just some strange scripting language. For C++ support i have to pay...
NeoAxis is cool, powerfull and without documentation so it sucks
Esenthel is good, Esenthel 2 has a great edtitor and the scripting API looks really good.
And what makes me feel 2013: Realtime raytracing and point cloud rendering. Imho the new technologies will bring us new engines and stuff

DON'T THINK IN POLYGONS!

Or just play agmes instead of making them lol

i agree with toast. if i think back, things like the horrible unusable a6 obb collision system come to mind...

considering their track record when it comes to usability, i also have no hopes that the upcoming? WED will change anything and bring back many users.

For people thinking workflow and attracting the more people possible (not only programmers but 3D artists) is not essential :

PS4 article (on gamesindustry.biz)

Sony appears to recognize that this isn't the same marketplace that PS3 launched into in 2006. The industry has changed enormously and Sony must contend not just with Microsoft and Nintendo, but iOS, Android and Steam.

Sony needs developers more than developers need Sony and so it's in the company's best interest to do everything possible to attract them in droves.

We'll see if that proves to be the case with PS4 in the long run, but what we saw and heard at the event was a very positive sign.

I think you can do the parallele with 3D engines.
Without customers, without 3D artists to show great visual games, without simple attractive workflow ... it will be hard to attract lot of new comers.

Things have changed a lot.
I remember finding BLitz3D because Directx Was too hard.
Then i find 3DGS but had to wait before i could afford it.
Yes in these times there was only few 3D engines with 3D world editors.
I remember a not so bad 3D engine : Cypher Engine, that sink down caus of the author letting it down
Or KJAPI engine,i was waiting for their 3D world editor, it was a financed medieval FPS some awesome game, but well the financed game just sink down and the engine.

So yes there was 3DGS, and Torque 3D, there was the main indie engines having a complete 3D editor.

Than begun Unity on Mac only, Windows users just found the editor a real revolution and awesome.
It was not very known before mobile support and that braugh it more popular.
And other engines offering also a world editor have come :
Esenthel, C4 Engine, LeadWerks, Shiva 3D , UT3 , Cryteck etc ... in the indie market.

So yes choice is incredibly lot more big, for any type of project.
Each has it's own workflow, easy script or programming.
The old days of 3D for anyone precursors are no more, now it's creation of advanced 3D games possible even UT3 giving special shaders or terrain/sky system.

So yes, this is choice, so more debates.

Back in those days i.e. the A3-A5 days (maybe even the inital A6 times) the Acknex engine was just top notch. At the same time I think the clinching to the concepts of this era is what became the first step to "3DGS' doom". Back in the mid-90s there simply existed no great tools and the internet wasn't all that available. Engines had to come with their own editors and I think with MED and WED 3DGS made a great job offering good editors. The developers unfortunately never really stepped away from this concept of delivering this all in one development suite. Together with some (in my opinion) narrow-minded decisions this made 3DGS fall behind as for example other engines opted for creating tools which let you place and organize your objects you created in your tool of choice whereas 3DGS still tried to force the at that time already outdated WED on the users. At a certain point external tools became a standard for doing stuff but 3DGS insisted on staying the all in one solution for everything. Later on I had the impression they tried to catch up by offering all sorts of import options of formats like fbx so you at least could import parts of your external work while still having to e.g. work out your animations in MED (at least I often read of a lackluster animation import). Finally the engine began to fall behind and the tools began to fall behind not mentioning utter fails like that WYSIWYG editor by HeelX TripleX (EDIT: I stand corrected here as it wasn't HeelX ) which was supposed to finally let you place your objects while running the engine instead of going through the tedious WED build process in order to just see everything at runtime which afaik got to a halt when its code was meant to be ported to Lite-C but resulted in a terrible performance (I think TripleX gave up at that point)...

So while the article ratchet mentioned ultimately is about the PS4 it in parts really is applicable to 3DGS. It didn't adapt to the Zeitgeist and stayed true to that concept of a complete development suite with tools for just everything. When external tools began to do the jobs and became to advanced that they were great at their job there should have been a turn of tides. Unfortunately they sticked to the decision of not only providing next to everything themselves but also do everything themselves. Use e.g. Raknet to replace the lackluster multiplayer features? No! And so went precious development time into improving the really sub-par multiplayer features 3DGS had and the result still wasn't all that convincing. These are things I to this day don't completely understand: Providing everything and also coding it themselves. A new scripting language? Picking some of which already exist? No - let's create Lite-C instead. Making lightmaps available to the developer so tools like e.g. Gile[s] can create them (fast, with lots of features like including alpha transparency of textures into that calculation at e.g. fences and creating lightmaps of high quality)? No - lightmaps are a WED only thing which then got "boosted" with tiny features here and there like e.g. the rather underwhelming integration of radiosity (which was sort of nice but the lightmaps in general still didn't look all that good for various reasons)...

Well I don't want to start too much nagging now but I really could start a rather long list with features that in my opinion turned out to be a waste of time in most regards and which itself weren't all that convincing...

Well with the new WED in development maybe 3DGS now aims at the right direction but I guess it already has "jumped the shark". In my opinion it should have opted for a way more of e.g. the FPS Creator. A nice and easy to use editor, premade scripts for simple pathfinding and so on which are easy to use and adapt and way better templates with a good editor integration (I always appreciated the game templates one to this day can find in the forecast but I rarely found those really useful and that's why I think the realization of often used features like an A* pathfinder with a nice and flexible editor intergration would have been magnitudes of more helpful). This new orientation with like a 100$ Com and 200$ Pro pricing would have been where I could see 3DGS shine. What I unfortunately see is stuff like Android support being taken into consideration which to me sounds like a bad idea because this sector already is dominated by various superior products allowing you a fast and efficient development of those usually "little" / casual games...