Leaving 3DGS :

It's like when you find some vendor that is shipping always same stuff and price and you can find better quality elsewhere.

It happened to me these days with food, in some place there were always same people, the food seems to be conservated and dated from one or two days.
Somewhere near it it was same food style, but with fresh garniture, not one or two days refrigirated one, for same price.
I just thaught , what going to the same when i have better for same price?


Well 3DGS is putting lot of time for some features (terrain editor, vegetation seems to never come after years of annoucement.
WED is announced, mobile android also. I bet in the end of the year if things go right; i'll do some check when that will arrive to see how it works and if workflow is new ?

Actually when the goal is making a game, not programming shaders or tools, i think 3DGS is not the best choice.Specially if you are not programmer.

I already go deep with Lite C and all necessary initializations, and array initializations made me fell like coming back to old langage and Pure C memory allocation.
So i've lost so much time in some problems.
Why not using C#or lot more simple Javascript ? why C style language ?

I spend less and less time with 3DGS, more and more time with other indie engines providing amazing and fast workflow.
For example :
I just can put the scene, put and change models and shaders quickly in some clicks, do some tests, change simple code and re test the game quickly.

Yes 3DGS is very outdated in that area, having to use MED is just another more step that dont' make workflow as direct as some other engines.

I just can say i progress lot more now , i have lot more fun with other 3D solutions than with 3DGS.
YEs fun and pleasure are important when you make a game.
3DGS is very frustrating in some ways.

That's only my point of view, but dealing with Unity and others indie engines workflow, i'm leaving 3DGS more and more and im' using more and more other 3D engines for their workflow.

I don't have the felling of loosing something like in some past months, i catched with 3DGS from A6 commercial, A7 comm, A8 comm, i odn't think i will stay with it or be motivated enought for some A9 or it should be as good as others.

But i think i have enought and just can't loose my time with outdated and complicated stuff could it be MED, shaders etc ...
Why this is not a simple shader list and you choose it and bitmaps in a simple panel like other engines do ? directly in the editor ?

So that is the point, i was somewhat very attached to 3DGS, not fan , and i just find i loose too much time with it in terms of game creation.

And i put more and more time in two other indie engines, i just love their fast easy workflow, and i fidn it too painfull to use MED and WED, it's a bad experience i don't want anymore as i have a better one with some others engines.

I'm really leaving game creation with 3DGS, we are in 2013, why using old A6 stuff and workflow ?


There are some great and fine people here doing great with it and having a great game in the makings (even if it seems to take years ) like SuperKu,RealSpwan,JustSid,MasterQ32, 3Run,Sivan,HeelX,Error014 and others i won't list here
We've seen supercan game also to remember great tools and game can be done, but it's not for all people, specially non programmers will never go so far.

And 3DGS games are just so few in number and that are really sold, it just shows to some of us, this is not the best accessible 3D engine for creation specially 3D artists that don't program a lot.

I just wishes best luck to theses fine people i liked a lot throught years, and others that have pleasure using 3DGS and achieve really good things.

For some it's hobby, others it's pleasure, and some others like me non super programmer, the goal is to make a real game and publish it.

Yes good luck, best success for all people around here (perhaps wwe'll meet in another 3D places LOL , it would be a pleasure).


I made hungry some people about non stop talking about others solutions , but hey it was to awake 3DGS, and it seems it begins to awake ? (WED, android ?)
I don't think critics are always bad, they can make you grow up or awake sometimes.
Indeed i should had perhasp posted lot less, and create lot more, this is what i try to do now, less forums even if that was a great pleasure here, and lot more creation and try to reach to publish a game.
Caus i never published or made a complete game, so less forum , more work now.

It's like leaving some family , after lot of exhange,discuss, even fame wars LOL, it was a great pleasure and lot of great people that will miss to me.

At least lot of people will say :
YEAH RATCHET IS LEAVING , COOL
ahah yes, guys, you are a great community, even if some really don't like me LOL

But i will come to forums from time to time and look up here from time to time to see if something great is happening.

So much people talking about the bad workflow of 3dgs in the last days. But Projects-folder is a desert...mhm.

But a bit more ready-to-use stuff like awesome shaders wouldn't hurt indeed. ^^
edit: Ure right, if i start an just created script in WED and look around...looks like half life and u have to invest a lot of time to get an "good" look. For shader noobs like me, the hell.
edit end

And WED really is a pain in the ass...most time. I love the simple and fast style of 3dgs, but iam no designer. I can understand some of your points. But for me Unity is the pure evil.

anyway i wish u good luck.
mfg

THanks Rayp

And WED really is a pain in the ass...most time. I love the simple and fast style of 3dgs, but iam no designer. I can understand some of your points. But for me Unity is the pure evil
Ahahha, the day you'll put lot more time in creating levels and characters , and just code the gameplay to publish a game, i think you will change your opinion, could it be Unity, Esenthel 2, LE3, Shiva 2, Ogre 3D.

Good luck to you and your projects

Well, I never like to see people leaving, but if you have made that decision, I wish you the best luck with your new projects on another engine

Thanks Painkiller
But like some other people , when programming is not our main concern, 3DGS is not the tool and more 3D artists like me loose too much time with actual workflow.

I hope to play some game demo form you one day

I'll still will keep an eye on 3DGS and see if something awesome would make me come back.

Goodbye ratchet, thanks for the help you have given me in the past. Best of luck wherever you go!
If you create some project showcase thread in the forum of your new tools it would be great to hear from you here and mabe even get a link to take a peek at what you are working on. (and hey, mabe A9 can bring you back, who knows)

ratchet@ good luck dude. maybe we'll see you back some day.

good luck Ratchet, your decision can be understood. Unity is a good choice for a couple of game genres, especially when you can collect nearly all the scripts you need for a relatively simple game, and has enough knowledge in 3d modelling and level design. and you can buy plugins when you cannot do something by yourself. but working with Unity Free can lead very fast to the conclusion of you need the Pro version to make pro lookin games... imo 3gds is suitable for making good games by hobbyist or indie developers, but yes, you have to do more programming, and to get some knowledge in all areas of game making, which means more time...
if the new WED will be really different of the existing concept, maybe it will be a good reason to return.

Thanks Sivan.

Who said it was Unity ?
Yes i'm learning some C# tutorials, i can avoid Pro with clever level design and graphic orientation (and there is some free shadow plugin for free version).
I use it for some personnal retro PC game and with team projects but not as programmer indeed, just to make some level design and terrain sculpt and test 3D models i make (so no need for Pro in that case).
And i use another promising indie one.
Incoming Shiva 2 is also a promising one, seeing the low price, and all platforms supported it would just be awesome also, we'll see when it will be available.
I think 3DGS to stay programmers way(Lit C is derivated from C, not so easy, initialisatiosn are a pain aslo), i don't think it will go as far as Shiva 2 or Unity in terms of mobile or features ?

Well if 3DGS make some 180 turn with new language or C# full support, totally new workflow and editor, and very low price, yes perhaps some of us will come back.

It's always sad to see people leaving, and your departure will surely make the forums seem even less lively than it already does, but I can see why you've come to this decision.

All the best to you - and if you create a nice game, let us know via Morbius-thread, will you?

ratchet,

I wish you create a nice game with another engine.

But I have big doubts about. Either somebody can do at least a demo with one tool. Or hunts his whole life behind the perfect engine. And do nothing other than engine comparasion.

So go with the flow. You can check in here at any time.

best wishes,
gri

Thanks Gri.

Yes perhaps i'll never make a game LOL
I'm more participating to making a game in teams as 3D artist.

For a personnal game, we'll see, but at least i just can prototype , sculpt terrain, paint grass, code simple stuff with non comparable workflow.
As more 3D artist i don't seek programming engine, so i have lot more pelasure using Unity and some other engine workflow
Why should i keep working with so out dated workflow when there are other lot more best and that gives me fun ?

I don't seek the prefect engine, there is no perfect, for little games a lot can do it. It's simpley i think i spend too muc time and find too much stuck with MED and WED, really.
I wanted terrain editor for long time in WED as complete as other engines, it never comed, so now i just thaught, ok let's stop dreaming and catch something having the tools and workflow i want.

But i don't even have lot of time for 3D game making also.
Could it be 3D models testing, protyping, code testing or game making i prefer to do that in today tools.

Good luck with your projects also
(hope to see a good game from you also)

Well ratchet if you ever want to support a team, you can drop me a pm, current project: http://www.youtube.com/user/teamINOV?feature=mhee

Great game Darkinferno.

The HUD are great, graphics and gameplay are just fine.
I remember your first 3DGS shooters videos was great.
How much time you lived 3DGS ? (i should had followed long time ago)

And find that demo video better in effects :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLI8pXlJCA&list=UUDXoUsDWQqEyMs_2X6ijBng

Did you use terrain ? Unity free version ? What system did you use as GUI ?


I'm really buzy in real life and already in some teams projects for the 3D art.
But i'll find some time to make some stuff for your game i hope

Everything is unity free and no extensions are used, GUI is written by me.

As for the effects, yes they may be better but they were slower on FPS.

Goodluck with your projects also

not to sound contradictory to what your trying to say, but in game development... programming is necessary. Unless you want a cookie cutter game made with the same templates everyone else uses your going to need to:
A - Learn to program and be a lone wolf with a small project
B - Look for a programmer willing to help you compensation or not or whatever you work out
C - Hop on a team as an artist that already has a programmer

There is no way around it.

EDIT: outside of all that, I wish you the best of luck in wherever you decide to go with it.

@LosticMate :
I have teams projects just as 3D artist for 3D assets.
I have one personnal small mobile game i want to make also, can't be done with 3DGS, with other engine i can do ti and test it on my Nexus tablet as i progress.

-----------------------

Stop beeing so closed mind.

The author made the great game with Unity and Playmaker no programming at all.
Xenpid Maze

playmaker for Unity

There is also U-script or Kismet for UDK.

Yes by programming i will have to do some, but only gameplay and AI, i won't code terrain tools as i need them, or shader editor, particle editor, Gui editor, Navigation system , complete character controllers , and camera systems etc ...
Some indie Engines give you all that that even more :
-Android
-IOS
-Flash
-Engine Web player
-Windows mobile
-Mac
-Linux
-consoles (license needed)


Sorry, but 3DGS even on showcase we don't see lot of finished games or games. Go to Unity Showcase and see the difference.
Android will come , but you won't have IOS , multi platform, advanced graphic features, unified lightening and shader tools etc ...

Lot of people using 3DGS don't target a game, that's totally different hobby and use from people goals is making a real game believe me, the hard work will be lot more in 3D assets making, level design , pure gameplay programming (visual also) than Tools coding , graphic coding or simply toying.


Even Lite-C is too much C like instead of C#or Javascript like, initializations are a nightmare.
I'm not convincing you, if you don't see 3DGS is really behind a good bunhc of others (UDK, Unity, Essenthel 2 , Shiva 2, LeadWerks 3, C4 Engine etc ...)

Some of these engines proposes you ready to use Navigation level based on geometry like some RayCast by calling a simple command.
Yes 3DGS is really behind.


We don't see people making games a lot here , but we see a lot programming features or tools.
it's not the best place for 3D artists having some basic programming knowledge.


If i would go UDK, just don't compared it in terms of tools and advanced graphics and unified lightening, don't tell me 3DGS is better ?

My goal is publish a real game on mobile could it be little or bad, so i choosen the rigth engine, i won't wait end of the year for 3DGS android, and it will always lack 3D tools (shader editor, particle editor, terrain editor etc ... compared ot other engines).


Just to resume for me like some others that have left 3DGS, we've just different goals than programming and others just needed other features and tools that don't exists with 3DGS.

It's not complicated to understand


Good luck with your projects also.

I have to agree with Lostclimate. Being able to program is crucial for building the logic of your game, otherwise you are just limiting yourself and your game to what ships by default. Now, that doesn't mean that you can make a game just because you can program, because graphics and sound are just as important as the logic of your game.

You can do all this on your own, if you have at least a basic skill set in each of the disciplines required to make a game, but chances are that you will always depend on someone else because it's more or less impossible to do everything on your own.


No language is perfect ratchet. You can tell me whatever you may want, but no language is. A language is a tool, and just like you don't use a crowbar to toast your bread in the morning, no language fits each and every possible aspect. Sure, you can program a Jabber server in C just fine, but when you think about it, Erlang is much better suited for the task.
Now, think about C what you want, but it has its advantages, otherwise it wouldn't exist anymore (just like Perl is fading out because there are much better alternatives). Look at the Tiobe index, C is far from being dead, just fucking deal with it.


Sorry, but looking at your posts and what you write, I'm afraid that you lack even the basics of programming (just like some other self proclaimed artists here). This is ultimately going to limit yourself, because you make yourself dependent to the default set of the tools at your hand. If that's good enough for you, fine, but please stop complaining if a tool offers you more, because there are people who don't want to be dependent on others.

Im not being closed minded. acknex could do A LOT to catch up with those engines, but my point being, is that if you want to make a full fledged game with anything unique in it, programming will need to be done. and as justsid pointed out, c is a tool just as javascript is. infact I prefer lite-c to javascript right now, quite frankly I was not impressed with programming in javascript with unity last time i tested it (a couple years ago, granted) not that unity is particularly bad because of it, just not my flavor. my point is not of comparison but i mere observation that games take programming. yes, you can make a point and click game, but you will always be severely limited in what you can do with that type of creation plan.

tl;dr; but just to add
kismet and playmaker counts as programming, imho.

once you got the algorithms in place on paper, realizing it in kismet or c or some other language is same thing.

agreed. programming is programming. a variable is a variable, classes are classes, functions are functions.

The only differences are how types differ, how scope works, and how much the language "protects you from" / limits how much you can do.

Great looking project, Dark. Really enjoyed watching, looks very pro.

I like it too, looks very professional!

@ratchet: Good luck for your future. What I was always wondering: Did you do any games or something else except introducing other engines? I never noticed you except in you engine topics

Not only
While nowadays you can download litteraly thousands artworks from the web, even for free for non commercial games, nobody will code the game logic for you

In my opinion, the programming language by itself is not that important
They are more ore less the same stuff
What it is really important is the game engine architecture

Strictly speaking, the simple amount of finished games isn't necessarily a good metric regarding whether an engine is good or not. Perhaps a "finished-games-per-experienced-user" would be more applicable. Not that any data for that exists.

(I'm not saying here that Unity is or is not better than Acknex - I don't have enough experience with Unity to say. All i'm saying is: Statistics!)

@PadMalcom :
I don't think i will make a game one day, but i'm trying actaully, i think on going simple and retro and mobile, to have lot more chances to make a game , we'll see

----------------

Yes programming is needed i agree, even visual programming is some sort of programming but somwhat different in the approach and it's more engaging fro some people.
The game i pointed on the video is a good example of a pure 3D artist doing a game in solo, that do'nt know programming when i asked him.
So it's possible to go visual,specially for arcade games.

Even FPS Creator don't require you to program. It depends on the complexity of your game and where you want to go.
even some 2D engine like Torque 2D or Multi Media Fusion have ready to use logic modules, you just pick up and place visually.
Lot of 2D games have been made using such sort of non programming Tools (even RPG Maker 2D).

If you want ot go your own way, with originality etc ... indeed programmign will be neeeded.

The other solution is a team, you make graphics and one other is programming, that's what i do actually also.

---------------------
Now in terms of workflow, when elsewhere i just import FBX, choose the shader by a click, run and adjust script variables values of the game (walk speed, jump hieght etc ..) all in real time
Well how to say , it's just fast compared to MED and WED, you don't loose time converting or writing shaders assignments.
i don't talk about terrain, particle editor etc ... all additionnal tools just make you speed up in your game making ,specially real time adjustmenst with game running :
it avoids you to : code particle/run game/modify values/launch game/remodify values etc ...

----------
And for my personnal project this is not Unity but a similar one.
So people should stop focusing about Unity
Yes i also use Unity in team projects as 3D artist only, but mainly to test 3D art before sending it.


Who knows what will happen with 3DGS, and what users would come back to 3DGS ?

--------------------------

@Error014 :
You have a good game base, almost complete game, because you do'nt use terrain, vegetation, intensive GUI elements, not last Graphics features, indeed 3DGS does the job a lot for you
All depends on people goals.

Hope to see your game on Desura or Steam soon

ratchet you made many valid points ,i agree on most of them when i
try to understand what you are looking for ,the way i see
it you looking for something(or found it) that gives you the tools
and workflow you want (so you dont need to wait or spend time on creating them)
but instead lay down your concepts knowing you have the toolset to do so ,
and lets be realistic here ,you do not need to be a programmer at all ,i guess
it escapes our thoughts that game developement is not purely just for artists
and developers and sound engineers etc but also game designers and people having
game ideas ,those people could start / join a team if the coding needs to be done when the actual concept is thought to be good enough..

best of luck

If you define "Leaving 3DGS" as "i don´t use 3dgs anymore" then your post is senseless. many users (including me) don´t use gamestudio actively to create games. we´re acknex-zombies and wwwweeee... wwwaaannnttt... tttooo... sssaayyy... wwweeelllcccooommmmmmmmeee... tttooo... ooouuurrr... wwwooorrrlllddd...

If you define "Leaving 3DGS" as "i don´t use 3dgs anymore and i want to leave the forums too" then your post is senseless. leaving the forum is not possible, there are too many cool and self-ironic users (including me) you won´t find anywhere else.


to sumarize this: use the engine you like, have many great ideas for new stuff, code your dreams and rant around

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiih, Acknex-zombies!!!!!

Before this topic goes even more off-topic, let me demonstrate you my closing skills.