Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial

Posted By: Nadester

Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 03:32

Finally dug this up after a long time of searching. It's an excellent tutorial on creating outdoor levels in WED, by Willi Leopold. It's probably the best WED-specific tutorial out there, and definetly worth the read for any aspiring level designers. Hopefully someone will find it handy, it's a shame so many good resources like this seem to vanish...

http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/lhp/games/leveltut01eng.html


Posted By: Jamie_Lynn

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 03:47

I think there is a copy of this on Grimber's site as well. Under general or Miscellaneous _ can't remember and can't get to his site right now...

and I agree, this tutorial is one of the best tutorials I have taken.
Posted By: Grimber

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 03:59

yep he added a little to it in the past year ( only a page or so) to clean up a few points .

Id like to find the female model he uses in it. i think i seen it at one time in a CD pack someplace( not the Geometrics one) but never could find it again.

was a pdf version he had for the english version of the tut but that seemed to disapear so i had done up a pdf of the html pages.

my doc site will be down for some time till I can pay off the excessive download bandwidth usage bill after that ill have to put some sort of limit well below the max alloted bandwith usage before the site shuts down, also secure everythign so no outside direct linking to docs on the site.
Posted By: Towelie

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 04:07

I did this tutorial over and over again... I loved it. Thanks for digging it up again
Posted By: Inestical

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 08:50

I will dl this asap i get from school
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 09:01

But it is also very good for people using only models like me
And with models we can do very smoothed outdoor very quickly with
all the modelers.

Is it a RPG game that is in the makings what we see in the tutorials ?
Posted By: Helghast

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 09:43

just one question thaté been haunting my mind ever since i started reading this..
who is/was this on our boards ??

regards,
Posted By: Guardian

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 10:00

Like allot of people Willi Leopold had a very nice project going many years ago. But do to the realities of life as I recall he went off to college and left his good work behind.

I think also the forum was much less friendly back then and he got allot of negative feedback especially over his malika model and level and shortly after retired form the forum.

But my memory may be faulty and I have no proof of such things and it was so long ago, and I really never knew him to well. How’s that for searching in the cobwebs.

Checkout the video on his site for a good Idea of what his game was to be.
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 10:08

I've seen the video : amazing , great

for a 2002 game it was good.
I don't understand who could say is game is bad or model; caus the
guy who made that is not a company of 50 people pro skilled !!

And it's game is really better than lot of demos i've tried here.
it's like Zelda, lot of cool moves,swim etc ...
simple great effective level , with lot of things to do (climb,collect herbs..)

It would just need tweaking on jump, and animations, but for a one person
work , that's a fantastic Zelda remake
and it works, it's plyable.

In it's site , the two tutorials (level,grass) are really good and
the guy knows lot of tips for optimization of levels.

The people who have criticized him in bad are really stupid/bad people (that perhaps have never done something great like his game !!)

That's too bad he has left caus its work/game is really great and some of us
could have help him for animations/tweaking/models.
Posted By: DavidLancaster

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 10:20

This is a very very useful tutorial, thank you.

TheExpert, do you have a link to that video at all? I'd love to see it
Posted By: Machinery_Frank

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 10:28

Here is the video:
http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/lhp/games/downloads/Malika.zip

And because of this nice video I posted a question in the templates forum:
http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=556958&an=0&page=0#556958

I also like this work very much. The climbing code is very good and I like the barrow model, the surrounding, the swimming, the watereffects at the surface while swimming and so on. This guy is a very talented game developer.
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 12:41

Indeed is really talentued , and he has done all :
level,models,animations, script,camera etc...

Is he in the 3DGS forums ?
Posted By: Nadester

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 13:41

Not anymore, like Grimber said, he left us a few years ago.
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 14:39

That's not cool.

And when you see how was 3DGS some years ago , the achievment he has done is really outstanding with an old version.
Posted By: Loopix

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 16:45

Yeah...I once e-mailed him because of the grass script...but never got any reply. This mans high 3dgs skills seem to be lost forever...gone...just gone...buah..buhhu..sniff

Thanks for digging this up...Leopold deserves it...poor swiss developers (Lord Sebe dropped "Kindred of Nakhar", Leopold...gone...just gone, Loopix hasen't got his creative phase...and wehre the hell is Snake67...!
Posted By: Sebe

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 17:44

This tutorial is absolutely excellent, it did help me a lot. And the grass script was simply fantastic, I wish there would be anything similar for terrains - it creates grass sprites (models are also possible) randomly around the player, but only on the textures you want - that means, only on grass textures. No additional scripting needed. And it's possible to adjust how many grass you want and how far it should be visible.

And Loopix, don't say "poor" swiss developers - Kindred of Nakhar is "only" on ice, Leopold did teach us (at least me) the art of block level design, your vegetation model contributions are fantastic, and snake67... where the hell is snake67? ^^
Posted By: LordRathan

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 18:01

Yes, this tut is great. My first designing-steps were based upon this tutorial.



But I think, blocked terrain is out. Professional games uses terrain today. Actually Gothic III uses terrain.
Posted By: Towelie

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 18:03

Halo and Halo 2 use blocks terrains. IT isnt quite out yet
Posted By: LordRathan

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 18:04

Really? Hm, but I think terrain looks even better. ^^
Posted By: Nadester

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 18:09

Good level design balances both wherever they are needed
Posted By: Grimber

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/22/05 19:51

you realy have to look at the TYPE of game you are making.

example, if i waned to make a Mario3D/Zelda3D, first person/3rd person shooter like game, especaily when thier outdoor enviroment areas are going to be very ridgedly designed for traffic/direction of play. blocks would be the way to go IMO for landscape

if I was making a game like an isometric view RTS or RPG then I'd go with terrains for exterior enviroments


also have to consider things like your poly count needs when making a game for your performance. like in a firest peerson shooter your view of actions going to be more up close and personal. translates over to needing more higher poly count models for better looking meshs. too offset that need yuo go with block level design which is then prebuilt reducing rendering needs on the enviroment leaving more for the mesh poly rendering.

an iso view RTS on the other hand you cna easily get away with allot of low polygon count models for entitys giving you the freedom to use that hmp mesh for terrains without a serious hit on the realtime rendering.
Posted By: lolek

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/23/05 13:33

Quote:


I wish there would be anything similar for terrains - it creates grass sprites (models are also possible) randomly around the player, but only on the textures you want - that means, only on grass textures.



@lord sebe
You can use the colormap script named tercolor.wdl download at pageend to check if it gras or sand on your terrain. Its gras then start the random script to create gras around the player.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/23/05 17:04

I don't really recommend using blocks. Use models and terrains instead but with c_ instructions like c_move, c_trace, etc.
Posted By: Sebe

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/23/05 17:10

Thanks lolek, but you have to know that I already use the colormap
It works great, but it would be easier if there would be a grass script that doesn't need a bmp where I have to define first where I want to have grass (because I want it just everywhere where is grass texture). But I don't want to complain - even if it takes me 15 minutes to get it working, your colormap is great. I don't want to imagine how long I'd have needed if I'd have placed all the 1500+ grass models in my level per hand... so, thank you for the colormap ^.^
Posted By: Willi_Leopold

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 12:37

Hi,

I'm glad, that after so many years my tutorial is still usefull. Loopix called my attention to this topic and it was nice to read.

Wish you all the best and more luck with your game projects than I had.

Regards,

Willi
Posted By: Pappenheimer

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 14:21

Quote:

Hi,

I'm glad, that after so many years my tutorial is still usefull. Loopix called my attention to this topic and it was nice to read.

Wish you all the best and more luck with your game projects than I had.

Regards,

Willi




You had less luck with your projects? Why?
Posted By: Bilbo

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 14:28

because every1 ignored him or just rubbished his project i expect, i personally loved it but alas was not around when he wasz a member
Posted By: Willi_Leopold

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 18:43

No, this wasn't the reason. Of course there were critical voices, but mainly I got very positive resonances. There were many reasons to stop the project - too many to count them all here - for example some private problems like health problems.

Then I was very frustrated because of the then new version of the 3DGS many things didn't work anymore. I also realized, that's impossible to make such a game alone, especially if it shouldn't be a 0-8-15 game. I had worked 2 years on the game and the first level was still not finished. And it was already then outdated. So I'm very surprised, that my tutorial is still helpful.

But the main reason was, I had found a company that wanted to develop the game together with me professionaly and distribute it worlwide. I still have the 30+ pages of contract. But then the company went bancrupt. After that I had no motivation to continue my work.

But Loopix' mail to tell me about this topic brought back a little bit game fever. So I have opened a new site on my homepage with 2D-games. There you will find the predecessor of "Malika - The Young Sorceress", an isometric 2D-game, created with The Games Factory. During the work on this, the idea for the 3D-game was born, so I stoped this project and switched to 3DGS. If you want, you can download the 2 levels of "Malika - The Sorceress Queen" I had made. Maybe you want to take a look at what was before the 3D-game.

Sorry, at the moment the game is only on the German version of my website, but the game is in English.

Willi
Posted By: Loopix

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 20:13

Hey Willi...is it really you? I'm very happy to see you loged in! Thanks also for your statement to the troubled destiny of Malika! I hope things are going better for you now...also in privat.

Thanks a lot for sharing Malika 2d...the screens are looking great...I'm downloading it right now...

Cheers!
Posted By: CD_saber

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 20:19

Nice to see you here in 3DGS Forum again. For a few minutes, it felt like 2 or 3 years ago.
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/28/05 20:22

Hi Willi

i'm glad to talk with some talentued people like you
with an old 3DGS version the game you'have done is really top, and for a one man project this is outstanding.

I really like a lot your level tutorial, and i'll tr to download your demos.
With the new 3DGS bversion and C_move instructions you could use models/terrains for your game and a lot more frame rate.

But even with Blocks BSP, your game is outstanding , complete and varied gameplay, very top.

You don't want to make another 3D project ?

Just to amaze us
Posted By: Towelie

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/29/05 00:26

I'm wondering, is he here to stay or just thank us for all the compliments?
Posted By: Machinery_Frank

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/29/05 08:08

I also want to encourage you to come back. You could be a valuable and very appreciated member and many of us could learn some things from you (like your outstanding climbing code). You could enter a team or you could lead an own team and this way a game could created much faster.

I hope to see you again here in theses forums.

Frank
Posted By: Thomas_Nitschke

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/29/05 17:29

Hey! You won't leave us will you?
I mean, this would really be a great loss to all of us. Honestly, your level design tutorial is still the best I know about and, in addition, is the one that finally got me started on my project. I do use MDL-based levels now, but those are based on the same technique, only I use MDL instead of WMB for speed reasons.
You see, I'm also trying to encourage you to stay. And, like Frank just formulated precisely, you would be a very valuable member because of your long experience with 3dgs, and we would all appreciate to see you on these forums again!

Cheers,
Matrix
Posted By: Nadester

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/30/05 06:05

Quote:

Nice to see you here in 3DGS Forum again. For a few minutes, it felt like 2 or 3 years ago.



My thoughts the same...
Posted By: Locoweed

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/31/05 00:12

Willi,

Some parts of Malika in the video were just excellent. You did a very sweet job of programming on that, so kudos to you. You actually made me start to figure out how you accomplished some of what you did, and that was years ago, Excellent! Come back to 3DGS anytime.

Loco
Posted By: Ayrus

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/31/05 01:38

It was definitely an excellent tutorial for the times, and, well, when you were doing that then on your own, that is really impressive, it was definitely a large help to me in the development of my methods for building a level. Definitely think it would be great if you even just popped in once and a while.

P.S. Seeing Willi post also took me back a couple years for a minute there .

Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Willi_Leopold

Re: Willi Leopold's Outdoor Level Design Tutorial - 08/31/05 08:25

Hi, many thanks for all your kind words. I will take a look at the forum from time to time. But at the moment I have not the time to engage in a 3DGS-projekt.

And if I would, it would be - you can guess what? - "Malika - The Young Sorceress". I had written the complete story for this 20 level game (not including sub-levels). Of course it had to be done in a team and redone from the beginning. There was mentioned in this thread several times that you can create now landscapes from models. So you can create and texture parts of the landscape in any software and then put it together in WED? And what's about the collision detection? Okay, here - at least not in this thread - is not the place to ask such questions. I can inform me myself.

I must confess, it would be really nice to create this game. You never can know what happens.

Regards, Willi

P.S. If you take a look at my homepage, you will find an Online-Game there. Just another Snake-Clone, but a very special one.
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