Game design docs uploaded - please vote here!

Dear friends,

We've got one more doc that was posted in another thread - sorry for that. I can't edit the old poll, so I have locked the thread so that you can vote here. Please don't forget to read "Dungeon Souls" as well and vote again.

As you might know, we are teaming up in order to create a community game. Several engine users have submitted their game design docs; please read them all and vote your favorite. I would really appreciate it if you would tell use why did you choose that specific game design doc.

Team members (or wannabe team members) please email me - george at acknex dot net - your forum name, your specialties (programming, level design, modeling, texture work, music, sound effects, etc) and the estimated number of hours per week that you can spend working at this project. If all goes well, we plan to turn this into a commercial product.

These are the links to the docs:
Me, Myself, and My Enemy
Broken Planet
Sorcerers
The Arcade Room
Mars Runs Red
Enemies
Slacer
Superku
Dungeon Souls

That is a hard decision...

I like Broken Planents, but slacers and superkus are good too

all entries have their nice points.

i also like the broken planets and slacer,voted for superku but i guess these 3 can be mixed somehow.

They're all nice, but I can choose only one vote.

Voted for Superku.

This is really a hard choice since all entries are of a different type and each one has a unique and original appeal.

If development time wouldn't matter my first choice would be Mars Runs Red: hidden ruins, caves of Mars, space-stations, primitive life forms... If these games were on a shelf in a store this is the game I would buy and play (...and Sorcerers ).
But, by taking everything into account, my choice is Blink & MMME: game concept can be casual(re-playable), 3D environment can be carefully reduced and time-shift based problems, puzzles & traps are very interesting and can be a great product-sellers.

My vote goes to Blink: Me, Myself and My Enemy.

I vote for Dungeon Souls.
It is easy to make, and can be as complex and popular as Spelunky is.

14215 Registered Users and 22 votes yet?

shame....

What is a shame? That people made fake accounts disfiguring the number of registered users? Or that a lot left the forum over the past decennia? Or that not everyone cares about this project? Or perhaps that not everyone has yet voted within 24 hours?

thats how it always is for these contests, plus its better not to vote than to just click on one without reading the docs

There is always a big silence during weekends. Lets see how this develops...
The numbers in the chart dont really show a sign for tons of fake accounts.

I like in enemies limited movement to player.
aenkku

hard decision...

i voted SuperKu but not undoubtedly. I think that a jump&run game is a good choice: No violence and direct competition with other players.

salud!

this was definiatly a hard decision. and i waited untill now to vote so i could read some of the comments. ultimately after reading through all the games i have choosen MMME. because im intrested to see how the puzzles will turn out and i enjoy puzzles in games so the time traveling puzzle game is a concept i feel will be enjoyable to play.

my second choice would have been the arcade room. with a group of classic games that can be custamizable sounds like a fun concept. i enjoy the classic games and they are the foundation for games we play today.

my third choice would have been superku. changing gravity is a nice concept and would seem like a fun game to play.

overall i didnt really dislike any of the games they all had some great idias and good luck to everyone

I also voted for the Untitled Platformer...the Idea of Changing the gravity and stuff sounds funny and would be really fun to play with.

Gretz

Poison

1stly, I wish you all good luck, and congratulations already on the game documents you've created.


Me Myself and My Enemy:
Love the idea, but at the moment i think it lacks the core gameplay which are the puzzles. I'd say continue working on those, then when the team is assembled and finished working on it's 1st project, if the puzzles are thought through with every condition to make it a challenging and completable game, then start work on this as the comunities 2nd project.

Also with a lot of time travel involved, you're going to already need double / triple the assets for each environment, as lots of the assets will have to be era unique.


Broken Planet:
Game document lacks what the game is trying to do, or what the player will experience, other than reading through it and thinking it sound a bit like AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! Also the Tomb Raider style puzzles lack any uniqueness, that is what I think this game needs to show this community can produce something.


Sorcerers:
I like the game idea, it seems like 3D trumps, but with all the work you've already done, I'd really like to see you complete this by yourself or the team you've been working with up until now.

With what you've already achieved, you show you are more than able to complete a game, and now giving the idea to the community may be a gesture you may regret in the future.


The Arcade Room:
Other than what robertbruce is trying to create and putting a front end on it, I don't see why people should team up, to create individual games


Mars Runs Red:
Nice idea, but at the moment, it sounds just like a new angle for half-life 2. It doesn't say exactly what kind of game the community would be creating, and any requirements or assets you'd want.

The story is great, but currently, I think that the team would be unable to offer enough time to create something equivalent to the story. (I am thinking nothing but Half Life 2, so more documentation would help).


Enemies:
I really don't know what to say about this, you seem to have 14 pages of nothing. The pictures tell you more about the game, and look good too, but exactly what do you want to create.

Lines like:

Nowhere in your document do you say what kind of elements are required to be moved, how'd they be moved, will the enemy return them, etc...

Nothing in the design document has a scale, how big's the player ship?

How do they even attack in the 1st place, never mind what the time of day is?

How do you get lost, is it game over, game restart, lose a life, retry level, start again from death point, etc...


This really doesn't tell anyone anything.
Again, name which collision you'll use.

Add a lot more of what you're trying to create, and what the player needs to achieve to pass through each level, how long each level should last, etc... Keep the imagery, but start again with the text. You have a lot of ability in the art area, and a lot of ideas in your head, just get them down on paper and let us know what you're thinking.


Slacer:
The idea of bringing a 2D game into 3D always leaves me with the question of would it really work, there's a reason 2D games are made in 2D and haven't been made before in 3D.


Superku:
After seeing the document, it reminded me of parts in Prey, and wondered would this work as a stand alone game, then read Yes was my answer! I think the game would require lots of these 'quirks' to make its longevity last, but with this start, I'm sure you'd be capable.


Dungeon Souls:
I really loved Eye of the Beholder series, Bards Tale Series and pretty much every other game with that type of environment.

If there were more artists than programmers available, this would definately of been the project I chose for the community.
examples:
(Eye of the Beholder)

1nd choice:
Superku
I'm sure the community has the ability to create this game within 3-6months, being able to keep people eager enough to get it finished, yet leaving long enough to get it polished.

The idea I loved, it's simple and addictive, and with an level editor (a real must) will keep people entertained for months/years


2nd choice:
Dungeon Souls

Eye of the Beholder, was one of the 1st games release by Westwood Studios, which, in turn also went onto release titles including Dune II, Lands of Lore, The Legend of Kyrandia and even the birth of Command & Conquer series.

Bards Tale (original) created by interplay, also shows a vast amount of games can be created with this genre, with little work for artists and programmers to keep producing new titles.


Sorry for the 'extended post'.

Very good feedbacks, Mr Guest!

My favorite concept is that of Superku, too. Mainly, because of the magnificent videos of the gameplay.
But, the concept is far from being complete, the graphical concept is completely missing. What is the main character?
You might ignore that in a fps, as long as the player can't see his avatar, but in a sidescrolling pc-game...
When developing this game, I would start with the programmed motions that Superku already got done, build a leveleditor, and build one level after another with only few of the motions of the character needed.
When adding further abilities, those abilities shouldn't touch those early levels, because they could vanish all the effort in building and balancing them.

For the gravity abilities look at "And Yet It Moves" (http://www.andyetitmoves.net/) to avoid too strong similarities. The people shouldn't compare it to that game, it should use the gravity in a different way with a different feeling.

Thanks You all for the nice comments and for voting my Design Document too


What you mean with elements are required to be moved? I can't see this in my dd.
For better understanding look at the picture below. Strangely, the other users understand this.


The Physical World scale: WED = 1 Quant = 1 Unit = 1 Pixel
Units to cm baseline:
16 = 32cm
32 = 64cm
64 = 128cm
128 = 256cm
256 = 512cm
512 = 1024cm
1024 = 2048cm
2048 = 4096cm
iBot player = 256cm * 4 = 1024cm = 512 Units


minutes = hours


lose a life, but when all life get lose then game over and start again from first level



Shader does this.


OBB or AABB I'm not sure at the moment yet.

Here is my first level design as blocked-out scene:

(Right click it to go fullscreen)



Level Design in Progress...

All documents are pretty, but one can win.
Therefore, I wish you all the success!

Thanky you for your comments but you need to read the document again.

It is not a remake of an existing 2D game, it is a uniqe idea about shooting with bubbelgum to glue opponents onto the ground or let them float into the air like if the bubbles where balloons.

My reference to "world of goo" was just an example for bubble like physics in a 2D game.

Thank you all for your nice comments and votes!

But be aware that the youtube videos are of my own sidescroller 'Superku', not of the 'Untitled Project' that I suggested.

@Pappenheimer: Oh..."And Yet It Moves" has already this feature implemented... We could focus on the time travel part or change the gravity feature to gravity boots that allow the player to walk on walls and ceilings.

I also chose Dungeon Souls not only because it is my proposal, but I think that a good prototype can be made within the 1-2 month time frame. I took the project as far as designing a small level (labrynth/dungeon) for the purpose of demonstrating movement. You can find a zip archive containing the executable by following this link. DungeonSouls This project will encourage and necessitate assistance from a well rounded team. Should this project be chosen, keep in mind I've suggested the possibility in my design document of this being an ongoing project for the team. I'd also like to make a few quick comments. It seems that the community is leaning towards Superku, which I agree is a good proposal and will likely lead to a nice final project. The Arcade Room is not far behind. I am thinking since most of these games are of an arcade style, maybe we can use the Arcade Room as a starting point for combining some or all of our titles. Each game can have its own arcade machine.

Hi guys. I guess I should add a few words about my entry “Mars Runs Red”.

I should have given more time to explaining game-play. My original idea was for it to be a straightforward shooter either first or third person. But later the thought of an orbiting space station and moving in weightlessness seamed more interesting.

The primitive life forms where supposed to be four legged beasts with something like the behavior of dogs but looking more like dog sized spider apes. It might be cool to see them scurrying about some weightless space station.

At this point I think a game like this would be better served as a first-person game, focusing on escape form the surface, and a final battle in space.

I also didn’t mention some of the back-story elements but the game itself was never meant to be anything like Dune or Avatar.

I was hoping to focus more on human treachery and cooperative game-play and moral struggle not “spice etc.” or any other material commodity.

I prefer the Enemies game, personally, as the most clear and artful of the Game Design Documents in the voting.

PS:
Good luck to all in the Game Design Vote.

Did it end ?

It sure did end! Team members, please email me - george at acknex dot net - your info so that we can set up the team. I've got emails from about 5 people until now; I know that many of you have posted their info at the forum, but I need your email addresses and I need to know that you are motivated to move on to the following phase. Don't forget to tell me what you can do (programming, modeling, level design, texturing, etc) and how many hours per week you can do it; we'll choose a lead programmer, artist, musician, etc.

i'm the only one who voted for broken planet? i thought it was a good idea.

It _is_ not a bad idea. Not at all. It could be quite a lot of fun.
But this poll was not only about idea, it was about concept and how far the concept seems already developed. And, it seemed quite similar to Superku's concept, and there his videos and additional ideas were the advantages over your's.
You still can develop the concept further and write a prototype.

I think that all the ideas are good; nevertheless, some of them (including mine) have received fewer votes. This doesn't mean that the idea is bad, but that the people appreciate the others more. We'll see how fun this / these idea(s) are at the prototyping stage.

A big congratulation to Superku

Count me in...

When is this going to start? I'm currently on the move, so in February I won't have much time.
But there were many interested coders, so you might prefer those who have time right away.

Currently I'm building up some sort of own template system.
It features some useful things which might come handy. If needed, I could contribute some of the templates. It's not much, I know, but I thought I could share.

Congrats to Felix

Thank you, Slacer! Please email me your info (see my post above).
Thank you, Firo! We should start it all next week; I hope that you'll join the team at some point in the future.

Thank you!

Today I've done some prototyping regarding gravity and movement and there is a lot of potential. Think of round/ square objects that have there own force of gravity like in Super Mario Galaxy:

Something like that would be way too cool . Imagine going from a small planet to the other solving puzzles.

May I give this link as a source of inspiration:
http://armorgames.com/play/2153/aether

Thank you, that's a good source of inspiration! I've played it for a bit.

(Did not know where to post...)

Dear George,
thank you for taking the time to create a prototype (and for another AUM!). It's just my opinion but I thought of a rather open level design like in Metroid Fusion/ Zero Mission so there is a gameplay element of exploration. I took the time to create a small prototype myself today, too bad I'm short on time at the moment, my exams start in 8 days.

Prototype Video

If you want to test it:

Prototype Download

Move - Arrow Keys
Jump - Space
Change period of time - shift
invert gravity - ctrl

Unfortunately the code is not well documented but it should be easy to understand!

BTW: I like the background of your prototype very much!

looks very good actually... very good

It's a great prototype indeed; the 180 gravity increment idea from your doc has made me understand the things a bit differently. Are you going to get involved in this community project?
The background from my prototype is a simple bitmap with some simple particle effects that complement it - or at least that's what I hope

Here's the list with the team members so far:

Artwork:
- Blink
- Daniel Unger
- Ganderoleg
- Guardian
- Poison
- SirCamaris
- Txesmi

Programming:
- Joozey
- Slacer

Sound:
- Dimme

Wow, that many graphics and that few programmers?

I think we've got enough programmers for now; I can get involved if it is needed.

First I would like to say congratulation to Superku for winning the vote
Second, I am very pleased to be a part of this team & to work with all you people.

I have downloaded the two prototypes and they are all very good & playable. I don't know if it is too late to post some suggestions, since I didn't know that prototyping would be done this fast, & I wanted to see what you think about few ideas...

When considering the global visual approach to this project I wanted to suggest something a bit different from classic platformer but still in the same domain. This wouldn't change game concept or gameplay mechanics in any way but it would be much more visually appealing in my opinion. Main character model would be bigger and environment would have from 4 to 7 different depth segments( with only one in 3D geometry).
The good example for this is “Moonmonkey" tech demo made by Drew Medina. I cannot find the download link on his site anymore so I uploaded the original zip on FileFront.

http://www.filefront.com/15475909/moonmonkey.zip

As for our project- I would consider the player model to be a bit smaller(& not a monkey ) and, if the level is indoor, less then 7 layers.

Second suggestion is a bit more difficult to do from programming side I guess and it only counts if we are to have some human/animal enemies in the game: it would be nice to consider making the characters to be in 2D. Not 3D with toon shader or something like that but real, full 2D characters. They would be much more fun on the screen and animations could have much more character.

Thank you. The Moonmonkey demo looks really nice, indeed! I like the style a lot. 2D characters are fine, too.



I can help out with (player) movement and the like but I'm no artist or musician.

Well, player movement and the like sounds good. I think we could still need some people doing that.

-George, looking at your prototype I believe we should have two sorts of movable elements in the game: a) pushable/movable elements that stay fixed to side they start off at. b)pushable/movable elements that will adjust to the new gravity when it switches. The number of puzzles will be greatly improved. A simple pseudo-physics simulation should do here, I don't think a full physics simulation would do us good in this case because it won't work properly with the different gravity-modes.

-We need a very cool animation (in my oppinion) for the main characters when switching from one gravtiy mode to the other, like him turning around quickly (doing a somersault) in mid-air.

-The time-traveling might need a few more twists to it. Example: you need to reaload your time-traveling-ability by collecting watches (or whatever. think: prince of persia's time-sand) before you can reuse the ability. Otherwise it's just a "i'm gonna keep switching time cause it don't cost none" until I found the exit here".
Would also like nice scenery there: a broken bridge (I think that was superku's example?) that wasn't broken in the past, but when it wasn't broken, it was guarded by two very large and very bad guards etc.

-Time Traveling could get a nice effect, I think. Like some sort of motion blur, very short, but visible.

There. My two cents.

There are still some organizational questions for this project.

- who is the project manager?
- where is the best place for our brainstorming, concepts, ...
- who is going to create that environment for the project?
- what is the next step?

Yes, i have same questions. I think manager is George, but other questions i have no idea.

i also have a suggestion:
real suggestion --> what about a custom 360º gravity change? (not squared)

brain flights --> thinking around this idea, i found a gamemode (oriented for time scores):
The scenery rotates around the player (like in andyetitmoves). The player can't move laterally himself. When the player is on a surface, he glides laterally according to surfaces' angle like slippery ice. When the player jumps (mouse click), gravity/scenery angle can be changed (mouse right/left movement) according to his vertical speed (more abs(speed) = less angle control). If the jumps' height is controlled by key pressing time, we increase the dificulty to do exactly the same jump twice. When the player collides with a surface, his bounce speed deppends on the attack angle, an onair stablished reception angle (mouse up/down) and collision speed. There could be special gravity centers, like in the prototype, that changes gravity angle according to the player position. There could also be those essential (in my opinion) pushable/movable elements.

The easiest level gets us a great competition oportunity. Imagine an horizontal plane level with the player in one side and the finish in the other. With first jump the player might orientate the level and try to get highest speed sliding down and get in finish with the correct orientation. The best score will need 4-8 correct jumps. It becomes like Xmoto game.

There could also be puzzle like levels with harder challenges like in the prototype.

I know that this gamemode is a bit far from superkus' prototype. I'll understand if it is not taken on consideration, but i feel that i need explain you because i found it really cool!!

Sorry for my english, i spent more than two hours writing this little post XP.

Salud!

Thanks for spending two hours on this because I think it's worth it.
I like the idea a lot, maybe it is the best so far!

EDIT: Still, IMO the overall concept (concerning all ideas and prototypes) is missing the icing on the cake, the unique selling point. : /

I hope you don't mind when I post my suggestions, although I'm not within the team.

My suggestions:
- Don't give the player all abilities at all times, restrict them to the use of items, and - as Ganderoleg suggested - to a sort of mana.
- I wouldn't restrict the ability to a change when on a surface. At least not at all levels. There should a special reason why the player is sometimes restricted to start the gravity change from surface only. Give the player the freedom to change the gravity within the air by the mouse, depending on the given items restricted in some way or free around the whole 360 txsmi suggested.
- For the idea of Ganderoleg for building the scene with several layers have a look for limbo http://www.limbogame.org/ as well.

Limbo looks nice, too.

I've had a (hopefully) new game idea some minutes ago. The player controls either only one or two creatures/ objects/ ..., but both are connected via a loose rope. They cannot be controlled directly, instead (like txesmi suggested) you roll the camera and simultaneously (who invented this word?) the gravity (according to the camera roll) :



What do you think?

interesting idea. certainly unique. I just see a problem with continuing that idea. you will need to come up with more things to it.

Hm that's right... The two fellows could get more and more upgrades, f.i. ability to jump, become magnetic and defy gravity (on metal surfaces), replace a buddy by one of a different kind that has special abilities (a gear wheel/ electrified/...).
At a later time there could be an upgrade to use a second rope that sticks to everything!

nice concept, in last year's GGJ one of the groups here made something similiar, let me see if i cand find it.

I would also like to congratulate Superku for winning and I am also glad to be apart of this team. I saw Superku's protype video and enjoyed playing George's demo; it gave a good first feel for how the gravity aspect might work. If the player is a divinity and their image is displayed on walls within ruins, maybe the game can begin in an a complex system of underground burial chambers. The player could be mummified and emerges from a coffin after having been given their life back. As the player progresses through the game they relearn their abilities, mainly the ability to control gravity. I'm thinking underground burial chambers and such can be levels similar to what George proposed in his demo, while outdoor levels can have the feel proposed by Ganderoleg and demonstrated in moonmonkey. I like Germanunkol's idea of some objects being affected by the gravity switch; i'd like to suggest possibly telekinetic abilities controlled by the mouse. Each object being controlled can have a specific weight and the amount that can be lifted can be shown with some type of "life bar". For now I think exchanging game ideas is alright on this forumn, but once we begin development, we should be able to exchange files and comments via email or a private server. Good luck everyone.

Some story related questions.

- is there a reason why the player is able to switch the time?
- is there a goal to reach? Like resurecting his fleshy body from the burial chamber by collecting artefacts and bringing them to dangerous places? Traveling through space and time...
- the time switch could have a countdown based on collected spider webs, potions, sunlight (to found on rare places)...
- could we add moving enemies to bring the level to life instead of being within a dead maze?

Two characters connect by a rope is not really new.

Maybe have a read through this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckles'_Chaotix

I have this game at home and well... it is chaotic. The physics get out of control from time to time and the level design is pretty confusing. This was the major problem of the game. All levels looked the same in some way.
Not sure if it is good to follow this way - also the basic concept should not be changed THAT much anymore after it has been chosen from various ideas.

Thank you, guys. A few notes:

First of all, the structure of the project isn't set in stone (yet). You can come up with all sorts of ideas that don't change the gameplay style dramatically (I totally agree with Firo on this).

Ganderoleg: I have tested "moonmonkey" and I think that it is a good idea to have outdoor levels such as that from time to time.

Superku: thank you. Please email me your info if you want to get involved. We need to get much more code out of the door in order to keep the game fun at its 100th level.

Germanunkol: You are right, we definitely don't want "real" physics for this game - it will break it; c_move is our best friend when we are dealing with lots of moving entities. I was also thinking at boxes with negative gravity, etc.

Slacer: I will be managing the project; I want to make sure that it is finished. We'll set up different forum threads for the various aspects of the game. We'll communicate through this forum, emails and instant messaging. We've got enough artists for now so creating levels shouldn't be a problem. I'm waiting for a few more days; I still receive emails from people that want to join the team. Then, we'll choose an artist and a programmer that will coordinate their teams; we've got a single sound guy

Txesmi: I like your ideas, especially the gravity centers.

Pappenheimer: Thank you, these are good ideas! Anyone is encouraged to contributes with ideas, etc.

SirCamaris: Mixing indoor and outdoor levels is definitely a good idea. I also like the "telekinetic abilities" idea; we'll have to refine that concept and see how we can use it properly.

Slacer: Moving enemies are a must if we want to keep the game interesting.

As even the author (Superku) says it, the game idea isn't quite there yet. I've seen the simultaneous 2 player idea being implemented before and (even though it would be a nice addition) it can reduce the number of our target customers dramatically.

I don't want this project to turn into a Mario clone; we can't make it as fun as Mario is. I think that we should keep this what it was in the beginning: a game that doesn't necessarily require precise timing and great reflexes, but some thinking. Here's an idea for some of the levels: think about a Mario clone that has you exploring the room, setting it up in advance, etc. You can then open the door and the boss monster that tries to attack you will be crushed / etc. We would alternate the boss levels with levels without enemies.

Also how about a straight forward level, just needing to turn gravity up and down in order to overcome obstacles while some sort of crushing wall is following you?
This would mean you have to be fast and make good use of the skills as otherwise the moving wall will get you.

This could be added for a later level, where the player already has learned how to use the character's skills properly.

In case the "moving wall" is not clear, read through the chapter "Drill wall" of the Kid Chameleon Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Chameleon_(video_game)

I would definitely vote for something limbo-game like. Especially the art style is <3. Have been waiting for the release of this game for years. But development has ceased long since.

limbos' art style is great!! Will us be able to conceptualice and realice that fine work? I hope yes, because i'm not a.

I think that artwork deppends on gamemode, and it is not yet clear.

one more suggestion:
Traslade gravity changes to special zones player/enviroment contact:
First row is a lineal pass throught a special zone. each state is continued in its column.

This zones doesn't need to be 90º arcs. They can be ellipsoidal or poligonal with different degrees.

Images are easier for me

The animation in the limbo game is something that would require quite some programming I believe. If you look closely, his feet always touch the ground in the right way. It looks real nice and might be hard to achieve in a short time. The closer we get to it, the greater our game will be though...

Limbogame isn't a real game either, that's just an animated concept.

I think that different threads for different segments of the game is a great idea. I would love to participate, or even contribute, in subjects of game-play, storyline, music, global game level solutions but I must admit that I am mainly interested in visual part. I believe that this is where I can contribute most.

As for Limbo: I cant stop watching it! It is sooo ql. The artwork and atmosphere has everything I like in this kind of casual games: minimal, dark, meta-visual... you almost feel like your inside the lucid dream(nightmare) I would go for this art/gameplay solution in a second but I don't think it would fit the general style that this particular project is aiming for. This art concept, I think, is more for those two people projects: one programmer & one artist working on a game they both find cool & always wanted to do ...I must admit I would love for this project also to go in a bit darker more gothic or art-driven direction (George's prototype had some elements of this kind through choice of music & general atmosphere) but that's not really imperative.

I will wait for solo-threads to be formed and then pitch ideas in more length & detail but for now just a short pitch.

Maybe we could have levels that aim for partly-realistic visuals similar to Prince of Persia...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S-8E4Tanhg

These levels would allow for game to have more realistic human/animal characters.

Second would be the suggestion of zoomed visible field. Prince of Persia always has 3 floor zoom, Georges prototype has 4 to 5 and Superkus has up to 7 potential floors...

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/pofpfz10.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/george10.jpg
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/34/97/23/superk10.png

...maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have only 2 floor visibility so that player, enemies, props & effects can be better viewed and it would add a nicer atmosphere & graphical feel to the game.

For gravity change I wanted to add another video as base for brainstorming.
It's a boss battle from the game Gunstar Heroes. The stage is some sort of modern ore cart ride and your cart has the ability to change between left/right wall and floor/ceiling.
Maybe this gives some more ideas which can be carefully stolen and updated/changed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq-5Jiq4c9M

Love your last sentence, Firoball

txesml, I must admit I don't fully understand your images.

Took me some time to understand that "column" meant "column" and not "row" (I was looking at rows). But in your concept, the player doesn't change any gravity. Or does he? So wherever you land, the player simply stands upright on that surface?

i know that you already have a bunch of ideas but here is another one

what if the gravity was continually changeing the entire time and you as the player have to be in the right spot at the right time so you do not die. perhaps this could be used for just a level or two where the gravatron device is malfunctioning and will not stop changing gravity.

i also hope you keep the discussions and progress on the forums because i do hope to follow along. good luck!

here's an idea of how we could implement the gravity-changing:
http://www7.picfront.org/token/y4KU/2010/02/03/1753351.jpg
arrow keys for movement, WASD for gravity direction:

1: jump (space key)
2: while in the air there's a slow motion effect. not overdone, but just a tiny little slowmo. press W (only works in the air, no gravity-changing while standing) to change gravity direction. Player turns in the air quickly (slow mo is over) and lands on the top side, because gravity pulled him there.
3: moving with the arrow keys
4: jump (space)
5: player presses D while in the air -> gravity direction change. player is pulled into the pressed direction and lands.
6: player can move on the new surface.

Gunstar Heroes by the way uses double jump for gravity switch. If you jump during the biggest distance to the floor, you will switch to ceiling and vice versa.

By allowing some hysteresis concerning the jump height, this should be very well playable.

These are all very interesting ideas. What do you think about representing the gravity changing objects as magnets? The player would have to orient them properly using some switches on the floor, ceiling, etc in order to prevent them from attracting its body for good. It's just an idea for some of the levels; we need many different ideas in order to take our game to its 100th level without boring the players. Check out World of Goo to see how a simple, repetitive game concept was turned into a great game.

That is right. i though it could open some puzzle chances. Just another idea.

I like your concept. I didn't find the way to solve the gravity custom angle visual identification with a not rotating scenery.

Salud!

Well rotating or still scenery is just a matter of the view angle.
Either you roll the camera so the player always has the same angle -> rotating scenery, player not turning... or the camera is fixed -> fixed scenery, player turning.

I think it is not much effort to change between those two concepts, so it should just be checked what works out better.

Agreed. That part's rather simple, though it will change the gameplay a lot. We'll need to test it.

I think what's more difficult to decide is how we'll manage the whole "gravity-changing" ability.

-The initial idea was that the player can switch gravity up and down, or even left or right.
-I think Georges idea was that the player can't do so by hitting a key, but only by hitting a switch in game.
-And if I understand txesmi (what does your name mean? I can never remember it :P) right then his idea was that gravity does not (only) switch by player action but by moving through special zones that have previously been defined.

Now the question is, how can we combine these three ideas? I really do want to keep the first idea as the basic ability in the game, because if we only use switches then the game is too linear: if we let the player decide where and when to switch gravity, then there might be multiple ways of solving a level.
Of course, switches can still be used to manipulate gravity. For example, switches could be used to add an additional gravitational pull: boxes are sitting ontop of the place where you wanna go to, so you push a switch which makes them fall towards the ceiling and then you can walk to the place where you wanna go, without the additional field affecting you.

As for the regions: Same thing goes. If we ONLY switch gravity using regions, the player actions will be predefined by us. So I'd vote for a mixture. The way you showed the regions they're basically objects that always attrakt the player to be facing them and fall towards them. Superku showed something like that in his prototype.

And Enemies: Can we find a way to make moving enemies NOT kill the player? I always found that annoying, 3 lives, then you die, collecting extra lives... I dunno. That's retro, and we just had a retro contest. Instead, we could make the enemies block the way (large golem-guards?). Or maybe levels where the guards mustn't see you, so you need to switch gravity to make them fall into some dark corridor or something, and then run past.

Story-Wise, I have an idea. Do you remember Angelas World? I'd take a character like in that game as our main character: a small girl. She has to go and find her little brother, who's gone missing. She just happens to have that gravity-switching ability. I don't really think we need an explanation for that. When she finds her little brother (in level 8 or so) you can then play both the characters. You switch by pressing "1" or "2" and when you play her, you can switch gravity, when you play him, you can switch times/ages.
Goal is to get back home, past all the dream-world creatures that the two of them imagine (or that are really there, but only children can see. whatever. I'm thinking of a world that goes along with the background in george's prototype).

The advantages of this two-character game idea:
-it is more difficult (just changing time AND gravity at all times is too easy), because the player must look after two characters at the same time.
-The explanation of the game could be done using dialog between the two, in game.
-We could add a funny twist: the smaller brother sees monsters that the older sister can't see. She'll always say that he's only imagining them and pull him along.
-The two siblings can help each other: he'll stand on a switch to change gravity, while she'll walk and get the rope that they'll need to finish the level.

Sorry, long post...

Well I think it is not that difficult to combine those abilites.
Switches and special regions are more or less the same. One you have to use, the other one you activate by walking - this should be no problem at all to combine.
Later in the game, the player should obtain a gravity switching device, which allows to switch gravtiy at any time. This allows an increasing difficulty throughout the game (limited possibilites at beginning: easier)To limit this option, maybe argument that the batteries of the switcher cannot provide enough power for constant gravity switches and need to recover.
Of course this way a recharge feature could be added, but this might interfere with the time warp idea (power supply was not available ine arlier times). In short we should not focus on the recharge feature for now.

About monsters/enemies: for sure there need to be enemies immune ot the gravity switch, meaning they will not fall from the ceiling but just stay where they were.

To make the player aware of that, there should be some sort of automatic introductions - means as soon as a new enemy shows up the first time, the game halts and an info screen about the enemy shows up.
Same can be done for items and objects.

Hi all, reading through the thread I had a few ideas.
1) I like how the character in Superku’s demo turned into a ball. I think it would be nice to expand this to abilities to bounce etc.

2) We need to come to some decisions about main character design along this line. Maybe just a being ball?


3) Maybe we could use small hourglass or egg timers as a combination of magnetic switch time limit thing, where the sand runs out so does the time.

You could let the player at least in some levels switch back and forth as they wanted with the restriction of the sands of time.

4) If this is all in 2d you could let the player break out into 3d once in while to retrieve something so to expand the game universe and add some comedy.

5) A retro space look, something more current than steam punk might be a nice look for such a game. Like captain Niemo’s ship from The League of ordinary Gentleman. Saw some cool looking ray guns the other day on the net with a similar look, of smooth white Ivory and Silver.

6) You could easily add mini games within certain levels to break up the action so its not to monotonous.


Just my thoughts I hope they help and make some sense.


Guardian

I was thinking that the main character could be a cute robot that is attracted (or not) by magnets placed on the floor, ceiling, etc.

Maybe player could also have some sort of mind powers when it comes to enemies. Something like: your on the cliff & a huge sneak is on the other side so you use your powers to force her to make a bridge by using her body. Or a huge Mammoth is opposite to a big pile of rocks so you use your illusion trick to make yourself seem big & scary so the mammoth would run away in the direction of the rocks and clear them off your path...

Btw: I always loved Angelas World & the idea of a little girl as a main character is great. ...and if she's in a dream environment that would gives us some space for more crazy things like: she can create guardians by imagining them, or change the enemies by transforming them into simple objects for a short time period...

I think robot would also be good. He could have non-fixed parts so if he needs, let's say, his hands to be in two different places at once he could just pull them off and send one to one switch and the other to the other switch. ...or be modular and change his body structure if he needs to go through small tunnel...

Remember that the Superku videos on youtube are videos of my own sidescroller not of our team project.

I have an idea:

The player is a divinity that is worshiped in one period of time but persecuted in the other age for something that he seems to have done. This explains why the level is deformed and destroyed in the second time period. He can talk, trade and buy things from people but their descendants haunt him in his "dark ages", so he has to find a way to undo this crisis.
When he travels through time, at first via portals, some levels later with an amulet (or some other item/ hourglass/ ...), it will take some time to recharge his device (f.i. 2 minutes, an hourglass seems to fit nicely when I think about it) and in this time period the player has to flee from his persecutors.
If you have ever played Metroid Fusion, you know how exciting this can be (escape from SA-X, "Someone should remake the game to be playable for xbox360/ps3/wii . Cause this game is the&#65279; true definion of a horror game.").

I would say we limit the gravity change ability to 180° degree turns. Now we can add 90° curves in some corners that the player can walk on, the gravity adapts to his orientation. Hard to explain, have a look at my protoype video, there is a curve at the top right at the beginning.

EDIT: The bad people could invent a new god/ creature that is supposed to protect them and to hunt the player when the game progesses (only in the future).

Hm.
Tried out some ideas:

Small girl+boy in a dream/nightmare world, trying to get home:


Robot:
1. standing
2. when changing gravity, the driving-section turns about the robot...
3. so it can then always face the floor the robot stands on.
George's Idea with the "attach to metal", or "magnetifying objects" might work. Maybe we could not "change gravity" as such, but "change which object now attracts the player and all movable magnetic things". Of course, only metal objects could be magnetified...


I have no idea what a "divinity" looks like, but story-wise, that's definitely the best idea so far.
Present:

And Future:

I like the two player idea with this brother sister theme. Maybe one is alive and the other one is dead which could explain why both kids see different styles of the same world.

The style could be a mix of addams family and beetle juice. A cute goth girl and her brother living trying to solve complex time and gravity based puzzles.
A great example for time based puzzles is "day of the tentacle". I love this game and its style

Maybe we need some sketches (drawings not prototypes) to catch the possible spirit of the game and decide which way to go. [Edit]Oops, you posted you screenies while I was typing this

It is hard not put tons of new ideas on top of the gravity/time feature and we should think about levels, its single feature (feature introduction), and the upcoming levels with combined features from previous levels,...

what do we need?
- a description of what the game is
AND (this might be even more important)
- a description of what the game IS NOT

Hello everybody,

this is my first post on this forum and I would like to congratulate Superku and say that I am really pleased to be working in the same team with all of you. I am assigned for the sound

I'm glad to see there is already lots of good ideas for the story and gameplay so I would like to know what do you think about the music for this game.
I'm very fond of music theme George used in his prototype and I think that this kind of tune would be perfect for dream/nightmare world that Germanunkol was suggesting, or Slacer's sister/brother being alive/dead idea.
But if we don't go in that direction maybe some catchy, techno tunes would be nice.

Welcome!


I like that style but I think that we should not copy the (unique) style of another game.

Germanunkol@
Great images I think the robot pix is the best.

...and here are few I made. Nothing too serious- just having fun with dark divinity for two hours

slacer, "Maybe one is alive and the other one is dead which could explain why both kids see different styles of the same world."
I like that idea as well. But as for "seeing" different styles of the same world, I think everything they both see should be always visible, as we already have switching from one age to another. So if switching between characters would also change the look of the arena, that'd be 4 different views of the same level, which is too much. Instead, we could say that that each of them can only be hurt by objects they see ( = imagine), which would be in one color: all redish monsters hurt the boy, all black monsters hurt both boy and girl.

Superku: What game do you mean? Angelas World? The only thing we'd be "stealing" (and I wouldn't call it that because we can always talk to kihaku) is the idea of using a small girl. And I think we can always make her look very different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmZBt9SC2JE&feature=channel

Or do you mean stealing limbo's style? I don't think it'd be too hard to come up with a cool light-vs-shadow style without copying limbo...

Dimme, great to hear you'll be making musik! As you see, we're still debating ideas and the sound will of course depend on them very much...

Ganderoleg, I like your style of the divinity. the red dress is nice, and the staff's cool. I think it would be cool if he only walks upright and looks strong like that in the present, and in the future he has a gollum-like look, meaning his cloths are torn, his staff's broken and his back is bent... Of course, he still has to be recognizable as the same guy.

So, George... how will we decide on a style/story? Another poll?
And when?
I like all three (I think it's three atm) styles right now. I think a robot is much easier to programm but also much harder to get "character" into (wall-E did that very well, but in a game? how will we make the player identify with the robot and "like" the robot?). As I don't have to program the player behaviour, I vote for brother+sister or divinity

These are all great images! I like them a lot. So it looks like we've got 2 potential ideas for the player:
a) A robot that can use battery-powered magnets to attach itself to metallic objects (be them floors, ceilings, rotating objects, etc). The robot can use boxes, conveyor belts, etc and parts of its own body to solve the puzzles.
b) A brother / sister team that gets separated and tries to reunite by solving the puzzles. The big sister and her younger brother will have different abilities; there will be levels where you only play using the sister player and levels where you will only play using the brother. The last few levels (or only the last level) will allow you to play with the reunited brothers, in order to defeat the big, bad, boss monster(s).

I know that the robot idea is mine, but I feel that the sister/brother team idea is more emotional / appealing. What do You think?

The brother sister idea allows for tricky things like having a split level where brother/sister have to ccoperate in order to get further in the game.
Also it allows to fool the player. Add some areas to the level which look liek a secret place. The player tries to find a way to get there with the girl, but at the end it's just a part of a level the boy has to finish later in the game. A level containing two levels so to say.

Another game to take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinworld

This game features only one character, but it is possible to switch between two worlds with doors and the like.
This can easily be transferred to a two character system where it is possible to switch between the characters.
The game also carries a fantasy theme which might be intersting as well depending on how the story setting of the superku project further deleops.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/racketboy/sets/72157602048384967/show/

If we do go for the robot idea, some scenery like this would rock.

How about putting the brother & sister together in the same story with divinity? The story could go like this...

Standard version:

Dark divinity wants to break/go back into the world of the living. He finds this child that was borne with the abilities that he has to have in order to succeed in his attempts. So one night when boy was playing with his sister divinity pulls him into his domain. Sister is in shock and also no one believes in her story so she decides to get him back herself.
Brother manages to create mind connection with her and instructs her to go to the old ruins close to the edge of the town. There she enters through the ancient well that is portal to the lands of the pagan god.
They both has to conquer the divinity and escape back to the real world.

A bit extreme version:

Dark divinity wants to break/go back into the world of the living. He finds this child that was borne with the soul that he can overtake through some ancient ritual. So one night when boy was playing with his sister divinity pulls boy's soul out of his body living him to be an empty flesh-shell. Sister is in shock and also no one believes in her story so she decides to get him back herself.
Brothers soul manages to create mind connection with her and instructs her to go to the old ruins close to the edge of the town. There she needs to kill herself in order to follow her brother, so she drinks the vial of poison near the ancient well that is portal to the lands of the pagan god.
They both has to conquer the divinity in order to regain their souls and resurface back to the real world.

As Firoball suggested it is a nice way to implement the gravity change as a double jump.

There is one big decision that we have to make (as soon as possible):

1) The game focuses on puzzle oriented gameplay.
2) The game is primary a jump'n'run (maybe with adventure elements) with puzzles.

If we went for 1), in my opinion we should follow the concept of brother-sister and their special and different (!) abilities.
"There she needs to kill herself in order to follow her brother" haha that is a bit extreme? That is somehow too sad I think, not a bad idea though.
I think that the robot is not the best choice for the main character, I fear then it would be hard to create an (emotional) connection to the real player. Limiting the gravity ability to special spots (metal/ magnetic/ ...) may reduce the possibilites and the fun in using this feature.
We could implement nice puzzles and riddles with two characters, but it could be that this concept turns out to be kind of slow.

2) If we chose the second variation the game could become fast and thrilling with the alternative period of time where the player gets haunted (have a look at my 3rd last post including this one). The calm age could be filled with puzzles and the like. There should be some friendly NPCs or imagine the player could control several instances of himself for a short time to solve riddles!
I took the time and created a new prototype of 2), watch it here:

New Video

The gravity change ability is limited to standing on the ground and the time travel part is realized by portals.

Furthermore we could take into consideration to invent (!) new creatures that don't look like human beings/ animals - without question the drawings above are nice!
For example the well known chinese dragon as a source of inspiration:



What do you guys think, 1) or 2) ?
I would prefer 2) (not just because it was my idea but I would prefer that type of gameplay, especially when you consider long-term fun and motivation).

I think that a jump'n'run will limit our target audience; I like the way Superku has played the level in his video, but I'm sure I'd need quite a bit of time in order to do the same thing. Some people will get discouraged because they'll keep dyeing over and over. On top of that, games like Super Mario Forever (PC) are free and will probably do a better job than our game.

Maybe a good thing would be to test both ideas and see which one works better. I still think that a Mario-like game where the player beats the enemies by solving puzzles is fresh and might take us somewhere, but I won't try to impose it if the majority of the team thinks differently.

Vote for Puzzle. I don't mind if there's sections where the player needs to run (who suggested the level-collapsing-behind-the-player idea?) but I would like it if there's parts also where the player needs to think, not only act quickly...

There should be puzzle elements, but no focus on puzzles alone.
So the player should be able to move around freely like in a jump'n run - but give him to think a bit here and then.

I have setup an Etherpad which allows as to edit things simultaneously.
It is supposed to be some sort of brainstorming list.
I have copied a lot from this thread here and the next step is to throw out all we don't need. The other parts we should work out finer.

Everyone can edit it. By clicking on the disk button a snapshot will be created. So if someone after you edits this list, it is not lost.

http://etherpad.com/rXhFZCN70j (requires cookies!)

If you don't want to use it, that's okay too. It's just a try because it's not easy to sort out all the things written in this thread.

Thank you a lot, Firo!

I don't know if I should put this here or should I use EtherPad?
...it's just that I found the game called Lucidity on Steam. You should check it out since it seems very similar(maybe even too similar ) to what we have been discussing here.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/32410

I saw the gameplay at youtube and even if it is a small girl in a dream world it is just a basic platformer. No puzzles to solve, no gravity change and no time switches.
All you have to do is to walk from left to right and try to find the post box which. I like the mood and style of this game, also the level change sequences are well done and don't draw your attention from the story.

But I don't think our concept is close enough to be considered as a Lucidity clone.

i dont think its anything like whats being planned here

Hi friends,

I like brother/sister idea more than robots and divinities. They are nearer from peoples heart. there is just explained.

I like Tim Burtons' characters kind. They emphasize on coarseness and fragility of human conditions, but plenty of happyness and fullcolored. Strange characters with a near taste. Stainboy. Some time ago i played Psychonauts. I loved its' visuals (high contrast) and storyline.

Lucidity screens seemed similar to few options that were discussed here concerning the main player being a little girl, levels being set in a dream/nightmare environment and the highly stylized art concept, but now that I have seen gameplay on youtube it really has nothing to do with game mechanics planed for this project.
I never seen Stainboy cartoon before- it's great

Ganderoleg, I like your sketches of the dark divinity and think that they keep closest to the design docs' intentions. I personally think there should be one hero character. I came up with some additional abilities that I think would add to the fun in destroying enemies and solving puzzles. I think each ability should be obtained after defeating a boss, and each ability will help the player gain access to previously unexplored areas of the game (similar to Metroid). The abilities are:
I think that the controls should be as follows:


Please let me know what you think. I've started making some levels and am thinking of creating a web page so I can share them with everyone.

The controls should be predefined, sure. But we need a configuration panel to let the player change these settings.

The configuration menu would allow to have control over sounds effects, music, particle + shader effects, mouse, joystick,...
And an in-game help would be required, too.

Am I missing something - besides the game itself?

I'm currently writing a lite-c unit for custom controls. Basically it works, but needs some polishing for nice on screen display.

After reading through the Etherpad entry, A couple things.

About the robot character and it being “hard to create an (emotional) connection to the real player”. If the robot character was a robot boy with a human heart a cyborg of sorts, he could have an emotional impact without to much work. His quest could be in part to regain his humanity. No not Pinocchio.

Or he could simply be a astronaut-boy or robot-boy.

I think the robot character may not be the best story line but it would probably be the easiest.

I didn’t really like the darker bother and sister Idea at first but its growing on me as long as it doesn’t get to dark. I think that would have a negative impact on overall sales, for lack of a better word.

I hope we can pin down some things soon. The gravity change thing seems the only real thing left from the design doc.? sad.

I wouldn't go for a very dark / horror / scary theme either; we can lose lots of potential customers this way. On a side note, I'm posting the final team member list in a few minutes.