R.I.P... A6 memorial day (20th May 2007)

Dear devs, noobs, wanabies, devoted, ex-and present A6 freaks...

Still depressed about the death of c-script and about the inspireing detours and tricks one had to use in order to get the desired rersults with A6, I'd like to memorize this sad day in history.

Today one whole year has passed since A6 left us. On a rainy day, Vlad dug out the grave...he diden't like the dirty work but JCL forced him to do it, because at that time, only those dealing with the mdl-format could do concave shapes. On the late afternoon, JCL himself burried A6 into the depth of eternity...without hope of temporary resurection in future (no updates/bugfixes ever!). Doug, George, Vlad, Marco and some others assisted the whole funeral...their eyes slightly wet. Not far away from the open grave, half hidden behind an huge octree...ehh oak-tree, a stranger watched the ceremony. He was wearing a long black rain-coat with a tiny but visible ATARI logo on it.

A6...R.I.P

goodbye beloved (for so many years now) friend, i will never forget, as you are forever in my heart...

*continues in A7 and lite-c*

Goodbye RIP c-script

I poured some of my 40 out in honor of my fallen homey...

My friends, in memorial for this day, i must not only, pay tribute to our dear departed c-script, just when a few of us, myself included, just began courting her. i would like to remind the faithfuls, newbies, and legends of c-script, who know that how many new versions A7, A8, A1,000,000,000, will come to pass, but for all certainty, A6 will never die! The combined contributions of forum members, and various plug-ins, shaders, models, templates, etc. A6 lives forever! As a tribute to us faithful A6 users, JCL and the crew should release the adventure templates and other templates that were planned for A6 before A7 was born! Even the great tools like intense x kicked our beloved to the curb. A6 gave us amateur game developers, either hobbyist or serious users, a chance to live out our dreams, and now A7 told us we werent good enough....i say nay! A6 lives on....forever.....IMPERIUS SIX!!!!!!!

Hey...what's happening? I'm struggling to get out of elementary school on C-Script and now I have to put on the black armband before I even get to Arrays 1.01!

The Klutz Koding Akademy will be out of business.

The heartbreak of starting over! I may put it off for a while.

i feel your pain Rod, i will not be walking down the A7 road anytime soon.

it's already been a year? woah that was fast.

yeah, thats crazy that its been that long....

Lite-C is crap

it's free...

LOL! Here, you can have this booger, I picked ya a winner! It's free too!

I got an idea. Lets take a car and put 4 different sized wheels on it, cut it in half and weld the front half to the back bumper inverted and backwards, wrap it in a deep dish Chicago style pizza, then deep fry it until it is golden brown.

Next, convince everyone that this new car is better than every other car out there.

Also, we can give them away free and tell everyone to send us post cards of where they went in their new car. Then we take all of the post cards sent to us by owners of the OLD version of the car and and put them our web page to use as an advertisement for the NEW version of the car.

No seriously, I'm talking about cars...

hahahahaa I love your kind of humor, just here to tell that to you, nothing else :P

No. That wasn't funny. Look around the site, tell me what ya think of the gallery section! ::snicker::

I like c-script and I am determined to produce a game with it.

I did know to c-scrip in 1999, I have done 4 games (urbashi, elnotas, elnotas 2, and racebull).

my relationship has been a continuing love/hate(the same hate love what a gamestudio/conitec/jcl/manual) But now I remenber all as nice days.

rest in peace...

i did not know that the scripting language was responsible for the style and graphics of a game.

is a little known function of c-script

I didn't know c-script was responsible for the gallery section have a lot of pics of good looking top notch games made with A6 being used to advertise a buggy half finished A7.

gallery has a7 games too? the c4 game? it's a good one.

I'm sure that it does. I loved A6, I was initially angry when they just sort of dumped off on it and made a new version. It seemed that every release of A6 fixed like a dozen problems.

From the late A4 c-script till the final A6 c-script, dear, you have let me down many many times. But you have given back much more. You have been my foundation into programming. You have teached me my first while and if statement, you got me into programming and code-modelling, and this I will never forget.

Now your offspring, lite-c, takes me to the next level, and I'm gratefull for that. The first steps to forget you were hard, but it all turned out as you wanted it to go. Lite-c treats me very well, and we are building great things together.

Thanx for everything c-script, you will always be a part of my history, and you live on deep inside lite-c.
You shall not be forgotten.

i just hope you don't want to make a complex game with too many models with skins over 512, some particle effects, and good looking terrains and altogether get a good framerate...

just think about that boxed and fried chicago-style car...

actually you could pull off a decent casual game, but hear me when i say this, Don't Do A Shooter! Chances of you pulling off a nice looking shooter without Doom3 sized levels is very low. Granted the price of 3DGS is right, and it's a very nice tool, but i recommend only casual games.

@c-script: And i just learned alot of it too.....i was still learning. Ah well, i'll keep my A6 license, not planning on moving to A7, but i am moving to TGEA

to boldly go where so many experienced users have gone to recently.

Dear grandpa.
It was a nice time with you. When you still were a child, not even knowing what arrays are, and needing RULEs and SETs.
Then slowly coming into puberty, finding out what Vectors are so you're able to work with real 3D worlds.
After that you bcame settles, cleaned up your mess and through a lot of useless stuff away, like MOVE_VIEW. However some of those old relics I really liked, though.
Meanwhile, you got really old. Nothing new from your anymore, and with time new requirements rose up. It's time to move on. You've had a great time.

Give your children a chance, and be ensured that we, the community, have prepared a nice and cosy grave for you.

Now REST IN PEACE and don't bug us anymore!

Hmm.. truthfully I wasn't suprised, for the lite c for the A7 it's easy once you get the hang it, thought I hope that the Matt's Sphere will work, I'll most likly buy the A7 with in a year or so .

I also have no plans to move to A7. I like A6, I just wished (like someone else said in this thread) that they would have finished it. Also what is TGEA?

torque game engine advanced, the shader branch of the torque engine. http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgea/

TGEA TGEA I think this is what your talking about, I'm only guessing.

That engine looks nice, but it highly lacks Acknex's affordability when it comes to a commercial game.

Then again, you get what you pay for.

EDIT: Do not post offensive, unrelated messages.


Edited by ?
Edit Reason: Offensive Post

You know what, after thinking about it, I do feel stabbed in the back since A6 was never truly worked out. Seriously, I buy your product A6 when it first came out and over the years its had quite a few bugs, you almost get it perfected, then you drop it off and I now have to buy the latest A7 which has even more bugs! Who's to say you won't do this to me again?

My trust in Conitec is broken.

I'm gona read up on this TGEA, the vids were damned impressive. If the company has a better reputation I'll probably jump ship too.

logic fault?
If you feel stabbed in the back and your trust in Conitec is broken, what does the reputation of another company have to do with it?

bad interpretation:
1. Thug A breaks your trust, mugs you and stabs you in the back.
2. Thug B mugs you and stabs you in the back or would obviously do so.
3. "I'll hang with Thug A."

Wait, that's probably unintentionally offensive.
If so, maybe that's another censored post and / or a ban.
(The same for what follows.)

FoxZero plays TGEA vs. 3D GameStudio pollution card?
Regardless, now taking bets on time of closing for this thread.

By the way, welcome back, FoxZero (and also goodbye, perhaps).

"Those with more sense may have already jumped ship."
"Perhaps, in order, the sharper the rat, the sooner it leaves, but vultures always seem to arrive in chaotic sequence."

hail thee tD_Datura_v, uncrowned king of psychoanalysis and shining game engine expert.

If you know what your posting is offensive, don't post it. The way the company treats their products is very important! Do they wait and perfect their current product, or do they like to focus on the next one? Do they have excellent customer service, frequent updates, a successful past. All these things are important to a shopper.
I feel betrayed by Conitec because I gave them my money and I feel like I didn't get a finished product.

Your post offensive and pointless. How about you get off my back pal?

I can buy/use any game game engine I want. I have explained myself fully to everyone and my point is valid.

Aye, bard and jester, honor to sarcastic muse and not, with and without regard to bite, that is a fair and delightful arrangement of words.


Others feel that way.
If fact, I may or might have also.
It will be sorted or it won't.


It might be impossible to explain yourself fully to everyone, and I think you shouldn't need to do so.


Others feel that way, but the reputation of one other ~producer is not always relevant for other cases.


In a sense, to a point, it's all pointless and senseless anyway.
However, in that case, I did not wish to express something that would be perceived as offensive from your perspective, nor did I plan to scale backs.


It is good to have access to such a pool of wealth and knowledge, so that much can be dispensed and disposed of in that way.

The trap is sprung.
Now, so deserving am I of punishment, when others are not, the ban should follow, and others should escape with the reins of ruin they already possess.

Hey here's an idea! How about you go troll somewhere else? I think the Report button is broken.

This nice thread has been steered off topic. Let me get it back.

So I picked up my copy of A6 back in April 2003. When was A6 released? At the time it seemed really new. I think for about a year and a half all I did my play with WED and make little template shooters. It wasn't till I joined the board that I considered anything serious.

I had a ton of fun and frustration with A6. At least I can say that I threw together a game from complete scratch. It won't be missed! It's still on my hard drive! I still have all my old template shooters that are kinda fun kinda boring, I should load them up and have some flash backs. Has anybody else done that?

All the other prospective bridges smell like sewage.

You should be happy with how things are handled now.
I remember times where you had to pay for EVERY update, and addisitonally royalties for your commercial projects.

Well I'm not. The time you have mentioned I probably wouldn't be involved in independent game development as I don't have much money. I understand things were definately worse in the past, in most cases they are. However in this market independent game engines are competitively priced now, which is great because I have so much more options for my money. If I'm not completely satisfied, it should be only natural that I at least consider other engines.

I agree there should be both free updates and ones you have to pay for to keep development going. However when I finally pay the previous version better be done and perfected and the next version should be moving along and relatively bug free or it should stay in its beta stage. That's just my opinion.

I like the concept behind A7, but I don't feel as though it has really evolved enough from A6 that I want to buy it again. And I personally fear that the next version will be released before A7 is what it truly should.
That's just how I feel. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything.

people have always felt this way. i remember when the engine went from a5 to a6, adding the new collision system, using a z- instead of a w-buffer, changing the lighting system to dx, and so on, few people were really excited about it.

however i agree with you that a6 has never reached its true potential. i'm going to skip a7 for sure, let's see what a8 brings, meanwhile, let's open our minds and search for alternatives. i found mine in ShiVa/the ston3d engine by Stonetrip.

When working on hobby projects it's possible to skip Engine gernerations, unless you need to use the latest stuff.

I skipepd A6 and directly went from A5 to A7. I don't regret the money I paid, because A7 is a LOT more advanced than A5 - but keep in mind that it's quite hard to learn all the stuff which changed between the engine generations.

In fact I was impressed how many changes there were.

A7 has some features I want but unlike A6 it's current state is too unfinished. The aim is to complete and release a project that is stable. A7 has even yet released working templates that are on the 'do list' whereas they are working in A6. Once these are released and bug free I think A7 would be a practical switch but until I see working templates and a working engine without half complete promised features (RPG template as an example) it makes no sense to me to switch.
Everything that's holding up the release Intense X is holding up my switch as well. I don't want to be 'on hold' for months waiting with baited breath for a 'workable' release. I need that now. A6 has that. A7 doesn't.

Templates are tempaltes and show nothing about the completeness of the engine.
The engine itself is never complete, meaning there are regularly coming updates, but it's absolutely useable.

A6 stuff can be used in A7 by doing minor changes, so this shouldn't be a problem. And IntenseX is 3rd party.

Yes, you only had your "completeness" when Conitec would not publish any updates. Well I'm glad Conitec is ignoring such "completeness" ideas.

Oh I understand and expect the engine to evolve- when I say 'complete' I'm refering to advertised features. Not some far planned feature only listed far in a beta document but rather those listed on the front page.
Intense X may be 3rd party but that doesn't qualify it as an example to throw out. It's waiting for a basic standard set for panels and so on- not some new shader implimentation.

This is basic game setup stuff we're talking about. Stuff that really should be established and in place before the engine is even presented.

All basic stuff is already there.
Some more default panels that's template stuff - NOT engine stuff.

And no - it would be annoying if they waited with the engine release just for the templates. I don't even see wher they advertise for panels and RPG templates on their page. There's just a text about templates - those are there and very usable, but they are still being extended.

The release of IntenseX is not really hold up. To make it perfect some plugin development stuff in WED is missing, but as far as I've understood Larry's posts, they're not a real showstopper. Development just needed the time.
You know that IntenseX already is in BETA test?

The way it stands now, all features for every IntenseX edition are done, and compatible with A7. I'm almost done on the documentation, but what keeps me from releasing is the customizable panels (since you own IntenseX Basic, you know how valuable those are.. Pretty much the heart of IntenseX). I was going to do all panels the way i did the old ones and release, but later I've heard A7 will ditch that panel system and use an improved one, so now i'm working with Doug so IntenseX will use the A7 panels

There you have it. Itense X is done. There's no 'development time' as you claim- he's just waiting on the panel system (an advertised feature) to be finished. Basic stuff. Yes it's template based- templates are a part of A7 and advertised as such.

Ive checked out the A7 templates since their release but have nowhere seen or heard of a "new panel system (an advertised feature)" nor do I see a new panel system anywhere advertised or in the forecast, so what are you talking about?

He claims the documentation is ALMOST done. For a complete product, there has to be a complete documentation - so obviously it's not done, after all.

I don't know which panel system is meant either. I've never read about some sort of panel system.
As far as I know there is some simple edit panels at runtime feature, which always was "experimental".
Conitec always says: Don't plan your game with features that are listed on the forecast page. The panel stuff is not even listed there!!


That's neither a new panel system, nor are this features which prevent you from making a game. You can't say the engine is incomplete because of such really nice improvements missing.


After reading again your quote I think Larry is talking about the way the templates handle panels - that's not an engine feature. If this is right he could as well write his own panel code, but it makes sense to stick with Conitec and cooperate here.

Ive checked out the A7 templates since their release but have nowhere seen or heard of a "new panel system (an advertised feature)" nor do I see a new panel system anywhere advertised or in the forecast, so what are you talking about?

You must not be looking very close. If larry is working with doug to get them working in intense X then they are on the way. His other posts even indicate next release-which means they are in beta.

That's neither a new panel system, nor are this features which prevent you from making a game. You can't say the engine is incomplete because of such really nice improvements missing.

Ease of setup is an advertised feature. One may not use all the templates - but most use some default ones. Save/load, screen res options and so on. If your throwing out this ease of use as part of the package then hell one might as well use a free open source engine- afterall they run and are 'done' under such narrow terms.

That's just to me a dishonest way of saying the engine is usable. In fact A7 is a package deal and to dismiss just about all of them other than the acknex engine isn't saying it's done at all.

A87 is no package. A7 is the engine - and only the engine.
The all in one package is called Gamestudio.

You referred to A7 in all your posts above, so I assumed you were talking about the engine.
The engine and the tools are very well usable, so are the tempaltes. It's just not compelte yet - and you should be happy that it isn't.

A complete package means: it's dead. Simply as that.

Hey Firo and Ghost,

To clear things up a little, that quote you got of me was about a year ago, while I made the transition between the old WED panels that templates6 used to my very own panel system by using the all new wed sdk. These panels have nothing to do with the in-game panel engine of A7, but the windows that you get when using the templates or Intense X in WED:


A6 WED panels (used for templates6)


A7 WED panels (used for T7)


Intense X WED panels


As far as if A7 is a complete engine or not, i think it's as complete as A6 or A5 was in the past. Of course it has its share of bugs and area of improvement, but not any more than any of its predecessors did. However, I did feel like the graphic improvements from A5 to A6 were better than from A6 to A7.. To me the A7 engine felt a lot like its immediate previous version A6.6.. The reason for this is probably that Conitec spent a lot of time working on other features, such as Lite-C, making the engine a dll, etc, so I wouldn't complain and I was one of the first to buy the new A7 when it was out.

Regarding the new T7, now that Doug is gone, conitec will need to find someone to pick up the baton in order to provide a finished template system for A7, but until then I think you could still use template6 with A7 as well


Cheers,
Aris