Posted By: PennyWise
Jesus Camp film trailer
Posted By: Sebe
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/10/06 22:16
That's a joke. Surely. *ignores it* how sick.
Posted By: JetpackMonkey
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 00:34
Nightmarish. But a tiny and insignificant speck of radicalism just like most fascist micro-subcultures. Brainwashing children like that is endemic to all fascism but its most frightening to see it happening. These people are monsters, but what of whackjob young-earth-creationists who have jesusjacked some of the forums.
Posted By: MathewAllen
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 03:22
Now I'm gonna try and say this as gently as I can....
HOLYDEARHYPOTHETICALOMNIPOTENTBEIGNTHATSINSANEWHATARETHEYDOINGARETHEYTRYINGTOCREATEANARMYOFROBOTICFANATICS?!?!?HOWCANTHISBEALLOWEDTOHAPPENIMNEVERPUTTINGMYKIDSINTOANYKINDOFRELIGIOUSINSTITUTIONESPECIALLYINTHEUSA
HOLYDEARHYPOTHETICALOMNIPOTENTBEIGNTHATSINSANEWHATARETHEYDOINGARETHEYTRYINGTOCREATEANARMYOFROBOTICFANATICS?!?!?HOWCANTHISBEALLOWEDTOHAPPENIMNEVERPUTTINGMYKIDSINTOANYKINDOFRELIGIOUSINSTITUTIONESPECIALLYINTHEUSA
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 10:20
Is this a joke? I hope so.. it makes me want to puke. I bet half those kids end up as drug addicts or in jail.
Posted By: JetpackMonkey
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 11:10
>I bet half those kids end up as drug addicts or in jail.
Yea you nailed it! And line the pockets of a lot of therapists. And now there's a whiny bunch of Christians who claim that there's a "war on christianity" in the USA, that they're being 'oppressed'-- people like katherine harris who do no recognize the separation of church and state.
I don't know which video is scarier, Jesus Camp, or this christian pirate rap video: http://www.ooblick.com/weblog/2006/09/09/perhaps-the-ultimate-pirate-video/
Yea you nailed it! And line the pockets of a lot of therapists. And now there's a whiny bunch of Christians who claim that there's a "war on christianity" in the USA, that they're being 'oppressed'-- people like katherine harris who do no recognize the separation of church and state.
I don't know which video is scarier, Jesus Camp, or this christian pirate rap video: http://www.ooblick.com/weblog/2006/09/09/perhaps-the-ultimate-pirate-video/
Posted By: sPlKe
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 16:25
and those people call ME sick...
Posted By: Irish_Farmer
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/11/06 23:55
That's pretty messed up. Though, if its a real film, the trailer did a good job of intriguing me, and despite not usually liking films like that I'm curious to see what its about.
Posted By: Doug
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/12/06 03:55
It is a real film.
And yes there are people in the US that feel this way.
And yes there are people in the US that feel this way.
Posted By: TripleX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/12/06 07:39
disgussing, embarrassing.. a nice brain wash..
reminds me on muslim kid terroists.
BTW: A Nice edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gTjKQDCXBM&mode=related&search=
reminds me on muslim kid terroists.
BTW: A Nice edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gTjKQDCXBM&mode=related&search=
Posted By: Sebe
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/12/06 08:18
Yay, that's a real nice edit 
Posted By: lostclimate
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/12/06 21:31
omfg, that is disturbing, i personally am a cristian and i am embarressed that they'do something like that, you know its bad whe you can relate it to an al-queada camp, ill rant later gotta go.
Posted By: Irish_Farmer
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/13/06 04:44
I love how the edit makes a mountain out of a holehill. Its a camp...one friggin camp. That isn't fundy christianity, its just insanity.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/14/06 18:02
Uuhm, fundamentalist's christianity IS insanity ... any religious fanatics group is clearly abusing the faith of others for their own purposes, that's not only disturbing, it's also insane. It's not just a camp, if it was, no one would be shocked about it, and I'm definately shocked.
Cheers
Cheers
Posted By: Irish_Farmer
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/14/06 19:25
I consider fundamentalism more along the lines of this: ""Fundamentalist" describes a movement to return to what is considered the defining or founding principles of the religion."
That's not crazy, unless the defining and founding principles of the religion are crazy. In christianity, perhaps the most defining principle might be that Jesus is Savior. Perhaps the idea of that is crazy to some people, but in and of itself, the notion isn't crazy. Its either true or false, though it would be difficult to falsify (you'd have to find Jesus' remains to prove He didn't rise or something like that).
If you can tell me how the fundamentals of christianity compare to this camp, then maybe I'll believe you, but I think at this point you would have to make the case. This movie might make an argument for a general craziness of some christians themselves, but not of christianity. Besides, things like this aren't necessarily indicative of insanity. Many people in the aryian brotherhood probably have no mental illness. Their group is, however, an unfortunate abberation in otherwise normal social behavior. IE, most people don't lack the self esteem that causes them to fall into groups like these. Or where they lack self esteem, they make up for it in morals.
In this case, camps like these are an abberation in otherwise normal religious behavior.
That's not crazy, unless the defining and founding principles of the religion are crazy. In christianity, perhaps the most defining principle might be that Jesus is Savior. Perhaps the idea of that is crazy to some people, but in and of itself, the notion isn't crazy. Its either true or false, though it would be difficult to falsify (you'd have to find Jesus' remains to prove He didn't rise or something like that).
If you can tell me how the fundamentals of christianity compare to this camp, then maybe I'll believe you, but I think at this point you would have to make the case. This movie might make an argument for a general craziness of some christians themselves, but not of christianity. Besides, things like this aren't necessarily indicative of insanity. Many people in the aryian brotherhood probably have no mental illness. Their group is, however, an unfortunate abberation in otherwise normal social behavior. IE, most people don't lack the self esteem that causes them to fall into groups like these. Or where they lack self esteem, they make up for it in morals.
In this case, camps like these are an abberation in otherwise normal religious behavior.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/14/06 20:41
Well put, 'some christians' are not representative for christianity as a whole, but I still tend to disagree with parts of what you've said. Yes, you are right about the definition, however that's more or less a matter of perspective. If the 'fundamentals' of christianity are to control a big mass of people by spreading a religious idea or concept, then yes it can be compared. However I think the basic comparison is more along the lines of general propaganda and indoctrination, instead of some shared religious details. It's crazy nonetheless and based upon religion, abberation or not. It doesn't make religion a bad thing per say, but what they do with religion is disturbing to say the least.
Cheers
Cheers
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/18/06 03:16
Posted By: JetpackMonkey
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/18/06 11:56
Terrifying how they worship a photo of Bush!! Talk about false idols!
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/18/06 12:28
Irish, I agree with your specific definition of fundamentalism, however the term has a wider meaning in America now, which tends to indicate religious extremism, backwardsness, and self-imposed ignorance.
I think most poeple who identify themselves as "fundamentalists" also tend to fit this second definition.
I think most poeple who identify themselves as "fundamentalists" also tend to fit this second definition.
Posted By: lostclimate
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/19/06 06:15
i always wondered how the defenition of fundamental ended up the same as fanatic..... wierd
Posted By: Irish_Farmer
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/19/06 06:23
Quote:
Irish, I agree with your specific definition of fundamentalism, however the term has a wider meaning in America now, which tends to indicate religious extremism, backwardsness, and self-imposed ignorance.
I think that was one of the 'textbook definitions'. In a wider social context, this seems like its starting to be considered the general definition.
I consider myself a fundamentalist, according to one definition of the word. But I don't think I'm extreme, I haven't even been to church (regularly) in many many months. I read the bible most nights before I go to bed, shut off the lights and pray, and usually pray several times during the day. But I've been lazy about finding another church after moving several times. Which, at least to me, doesn't sound very extreme.
Anyway, I don't know if its my perception being changed by media, but it seems like the more negative type of fundamentalism is growing. Which, frankly, doesn't surprise me. Though I think its not so much the growth of this kind of fundamentalism as it is a larger focus on the fundamentalism. After all, there's a general mistrepresentation in the media, news, movies, tv, etc.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/19/06 06:30
two words about that movie: "bible basher"
julz
julz
Posted By: ello
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/19/06 09:49
"This video has been removed due to terms of use violation."
what was it? somewhat mental health station for unstable unsatisfied people who want to help people which dont need help?
what was it? somewhat mental health station for unstable unsatisfied people who want to help people which dont need help?
Posted By: lostclimate
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 09/19/06 14:07
probably too cult-like for youtube
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/20/06 12:41
i think u can still find it on apple trailers
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/20/06 21:42
The video is not at that site and I don't get it man.
Why be wimpy and bash only "Christianity?"
Why not be half-brave and bash "Islam", because lots of fun stuff happens to you if you bash it?
Fun stuff like, beheadings, stonings, assasinations and all that crap...
Just ask Salmon Rushdie... HA-HA!
Why be wimpy and bash only "Christianity?"
Why not be half-brave and bash "Islam", because lots of fun stuff happens to you if you bash it?
Fun stuff like, beheadings, stonings, assasinations and all that crap...
Just ask Salmon Rushdie... HA-HA!
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/20/06 21:59
There are christians who would very much like to kill you too if you say jesus is a fag or something along that line. (It's example nothing more, just in case 
)
There's crazyness on both sides, don't pretend as if Christianity is any better when it comes to the possible existance of extremes.
Cheers
)There's crazyness on both sides, don't pretend as if Christianity is any better when it comes to the possible existance of extremes.
Cheers
Posted By: JetpackMonkey
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/20/06 22:01
Jesus Camp isn't christian bashing. It's about a kids camp that teaches fundamentalist christian kids to emulate the violence of Islamic fundamentalism. That's basically what the woman who runsthe camp says, if you see the trailer. She wants christians to be just as aggressive and to die for their cause as radical islam. If you see the trailer you'll understand. They're trying to start a christian fascist movement, teaching kids to die for jesus and "pray to the christian flag of the united states of america"-- and praying to a picture of gw bush!! sick
Jesus Camp Trailer (on apple)
Jesus Camp Trailer (on apple)
Posted By: Doug
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/21/06 02:31
Quote:
Why be wimpy and bash only "Christianity?"
Because a movie can only be so long.
Why doesn't StarWars talk about the Hobits of Middle Earth? That's unfair to short people!
Posted By: William
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/21/06 06:00
I seen a clip of this on t.v. I feel bad for the kids who have to go through this... afterall, praising the George Bush cutout is probably one of the dumbest things i've ever seen. Next thing you know, they'll be praising a cutout of her. That's when you watch your back for her child soldiers running around with guns.
I was a bit surprised though, first time i've seen a fanatical church like this. Around here most things are formal.
I was a bit surprised though, first time i've seen a fanatical church like this. Around here most things are formal.
Posted By: Towelie
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/21/06 20:56
Yeah, things are the way theyre supposed to be around here.
If I met that lady in person, I'd give her a good old Red Foreman 'swift kick in the ass'
If I met that lady in person, I'd give her a good old Red Foreman 'swift kick in the ass'
Posted By: sinnlos
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 07:38
this weekend i watched a documentary film which belongs to this theme.
it was called "God's next Army" i've found it on video.google, here it is:
video.google.com - God's next Army
(the first minutes of this video is the end of another film and some commercials...it starts after that)
it is difficult to explain what its about, since english is not my mother-tounge. but i'll try:
its about a college that teaches the students to become fanatic religous politicians. it seems that this college has good connections to the white house.
they maybe not as fanatic like those crazy people from jesus-camp but far more intelligent, and that makes it far more frightening.
also frightening is, that they are not only fanatic religous, they are also fanatic nationalists.
when there is an election, the students dont need to go to school but need to help republicans politicians to get their votes.
argh... can't explain it anymore, my english sucks... you better watch the film to understand.
cheers
sinnlos
it was called "God's next Army" i've found it on video.google, here it is:
video.google.com - God's next Army
(the first minutes of this video is the end of another film and some commercials...it starts after that)
it is difficult to explain what its about, since english is not my mother-tounge. but i'll try:
its about a college that teaches the students to become fanatic religous politicians. it seems that this college has good connections to the white house.
they maybe not as fanatic like those crazy people from jesus-camp but far more intelligent, and that makes it far more frightening.
also frightening is, that they are not only fanatic religous, they are also fanatic nationalists.
when there is an election, the students dont need to go to school but need to help republicans politicians to get their votes.
argh... can't explain it anymore, my english sucks... you better watch the film to understand.
cheers
sinnlos
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 11:53
These guys are crazy ... The sad thing is, these people do not seem to have a choice.
That's from about halfway, after a commercial.
And still the guy doesn't seem to notice that he's getting brainwashed bigtime there.
He should listen to himself, rewind that tape, listen to it and THINK about it.
Things like this totally disgust me, regardless of being religious of nature, that's not what disturbs me here, it's the amount of control that's disturbing...
Cheers
Quote:
I finally had give up all my ambitions and .. [started to listen to THEIR advice]
That's from about halfway, after a commercial.
And still the guy doesn't seem to notice that he's getting brainwashed bigtime there.
He should listen to himself, rewind that tape, listen to it and THINK about it.Things like this totally disgust me, regardless of being religious of nature, that's not what disturbs me here, it's the amount of control that's disturbing...
Cheers
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 12:31
Jesus Camp is bible-bashing, which is being too pressing/pushy and imposing Christianity on someone in such a way that they will be put against it.
in terms of Christianity being just as bad as Islam -- when it comes to craziness, i'd like to point out, as i'm completely aware that suicide bombers aren't representatives of the beliefs of every Muslim -- i'd have to say that Christians in general are quite good.
those suicide bomber's aren't extreme Muslims, because that implies that the more Muslim u are the more inclined u are to kill urself as well as as many other people as possible.
i'm sure there is craziness on all sides, but i'd just like to point out that those (at least where they'd kill to make a point) are examples of bad Christians/Muslims/etc.
Julz
in terms of Christianity being just as bad as Islam -- when it comes to craziness, i'd like to point out, as i'm completely aware that suicide bombers aren't representatives of the beliefs of every Muslim -- i'd have to say that Christians in general are quite good.
those suicide bomber's aren't extreme Muslims, because that implies that the more Muslim u are the more inclined u are to kill urself as well as as many other people as possible.
i'm sure there is craziness on all sides, but i'd just like to point out that those (at least where they'd kill to make a point) are examples of bad Christians/Muslims/etc.
Julz
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 15:24
You're obviously not getting my point in the first place. This is not about good or bad christians at all. It's about the way they abuse people's faith in general. This happens on all religious sides, and I think all extremes are just as crazy. Christianity most certainly isn't any better, just look at what the churchs has done in the past, look at a lot of more recent wars too. You might not want to know what get's done 'in name of Christianity', but that doesn't prevent it from happening.
This is ill reasoning. What do you mean a suicide bomber isn't an extreme muslim? Off course he is an extreme muslim! His ultimate goal is not to kill himself afterall, but to do 'good in name of the Islam' and after that go to heaven and get the promised virgins and an eternal afterlife. Extreme Christians are no different in this respect.
Christians might not be tempted as quick to kill themselves as those islamic suicide bombers, but that obviously has a reason.
It's simply because Christians often believe commiting suicide will get you in Hell, not in Heaven.
Oww and in general those bad muslims aren't seen as 'bad muslims' at all, they become martyrs. It's an interesting question to see wether or not for example those Christian 'saints' actually were 'good'.
I haven't done any research, so I probably can't come up with specific examples, but there's always 'the way people were, and the way people want to be remembered'. Apart from that, what we now think off as 'good', might not have been the same in the past either. Probably not actually.
Cheers
Quote:
those suicide bomber's aren't extreme Muslims, because that implies that the more Muslim u are the more inclined u are to kill urself as well as as many other people as possible.
This is ill reasoning. What do you mean a suicide bomber isn't an extreme muslim? Off course he is an extreme muslim! His ultimate goal is not to kill himself afterall, but to do 'good in name of the Islam' and after that go to heaven and get the promised virgins and an eternal afterlife. Extreme Christians are no different in this respect.
Christians might not be tempted as quick to kill themselves as those islamic suicide bombers, but that obviously has a reason.
It's simply because Christians often believe commiting suicide will get you in Hell, not in Heaven.
Oww and in general those bad muslims aren't seen as 'bad muslims' at all, they become martyrs. It's an interesting question to see wether or not for example those Christian 'saints' actually were 'good'.
I haven't done any research, so I probably can't come up with specific examples, but there's always 'the way people were, and the way people want to be remembered'. Apart from that, what we now think off as 'good', might not have been the same in the past either. Probably not actually.
Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 19:31
Quote:
This happens on all religious sides
It helps your cause, however, if your holy book says abominations like below:
Quote:
"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding." (Koran 8:65)
Okay! You read it, so then let's go out and rout and kill all of the unbelievers, YEAH!
Oh I forgot, I'm not a muslim. Eggh, forget it...
Posted By: zwecklos
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 20:22
humans are able to travle to the moon, we can reach other planets with probes and robotronic vehicles.
in the other hand we still believe in fairy tale's and false prophets.
how peacefully could life be if there were no religion. time for us to become arisen.
cheers
in the other hand we still believe in fairy tale's and false prophets.
how peacefully could life be if there were no religion. time for us to become arisen.
cheers
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 20:44
I would agree with you friend, but I think "Cain the Cougar" below has other ideas.
Aye Matie...
Shiver me timbers!!!
Aha! No more walking the plank.
Soon Ran's game will be released!
And it will conquer the ENTIRE world!!!!
It's time for some fun I tell ye!
Woo, Ha, Ha!!!
Aye Matie...
Shiver me timbers!!!
Aha! No more walking the plank.
Soon Ran's game will be released!
And it will conquer the ENTIRE world!!!!
It's time for some fun I tell ye!
Woo, Ha, Ha!!!
Posted By: zwecklos
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 20:57
ROFL
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/23/06 22:14
Quote:
It helps your cause, however, if your holy book says abominations like below:
Christianity never was friendly to nonbelievers either, the past is all the evidence we need to prove that.
Stating there is crazyness on both sides doesn't help my cause. Suicide bombers simply won't last long enough for it to help my cause. *sigh*
Most of the time, one bomb does the job, even if it fails to blow, they'll get a death penalty anyways...Quote:
Okay! You read it, so then let's go out and rout and kill all of the unbelievers, YEAH!
I'll have to look through my koran for this verse, but I'm sure you've ripped it out of it's context one way or the other.
Cheers
Posted By: Sebe
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/24/06 01:44
Quoting "evil" passages from the koran is completely senseless. There are passages in the old testament of the bible that are at least the same cruel and stupid. Both books have a lot of crap, but also good parts in them.
Posted By: William
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/24/06 02:59
People mess up Christianity. Religion, is a byproduct of people. The Old Testament is often misunderstood, or misused by organizations and individuals. It is explained in Romans that the old testemant was the old plan, and is not to be followed. Considering the New Testament is to be followed, Christianity is based on love for the Trinity and for your fellow man, rather than war. The Old Testament serves more as history, and makes for good reading.
This is why I wouldn't consider myself religous, because all to often you will be missing out on the full picture following a particular religion. I am sure everyone has seen some sort of fighting within religous organizations based off of Christianity(The old testament) and personal ambitions; this makes things confusing if you have no understanding of the bible. Unfortuantly, that's what this video shows. I'm not going to comment on the Koran, as I have not read it as a whole, and context is a big thing when your looking into these things.
This is why I wouldn't consider myself religous, because all to often you will be missing out on the full picture following a particular religion. I am sure everyone has seen some sort of fighting within religous organizations based off of Christianity(The old testament) and personal ambitions; this makes things confusing if you have no understanding of the bible. Unfortuantly, that's what this video shows. I'm not going to comment on the Koran, as I have not read it as a whole, and context is a big thing when your looking into these things.
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/24/06 08:25
Quote:
Quote:
This happens on all religious sides
It helps your cause, however, if your holy book says abominations like below:
Quote:
"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding." (Koran 8:65)
Okay! You read it, so then let's go out and rout and kill all of the unbelievers, YEAH!
Oh I forgot, I'm not a muslim. Eggh, forget it...
I think we can all agree Ran Man is mentally ill. Ran, you should go away; everything you say is completely retarded.
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 04:30
Quote:
Stating there is crazyness on both sides doesn't help my cause. Suicide bombers simply won't last long enough for it to help my cause. *sigh*
About the suicide bombers:
Okay, interesting, but where are all the "Christian" suicide bombers? Probably because the bible teaches that we'll go to hell if we murder people?
I don't see any Christian-suicide bombers for some reason.The Koran has many verses that guarantee riches to Jihad followers.
Quote:
everything you say is completely retarded
Why?
Just because I have a different viewpoint ?
Anyways, this new game level I'm making over here has lots of hell preaching and lava all around. HAHA! Funny stuff...
And God says--> TURN! TURN FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS. WHY WILL YOU DIE?!?! Gee, I hope Conitec is okay with a game like this. lol
Enough to scare the murderous jihad right out of anybody.
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 07:55
Quote:whoa whoa! settle down! ur obviously not getting my point in the first place
You're obviously not getting my point in the first place.
im not saying that those muslims aren't being extreme, im saying that they aren't being extreme muslims, meaning they aren't doing what they do because they are super muslims, but because they think they are and are misinterpreting their own doctrines.Quote:another example proving my point. those who have been unfriendly to nonbelievers get no encouragement from the New Testament, and in fact are told not to all over the place. they are just misinterpreting their own doctrines, or missing some key information.
Christianity never was friendly to nonbelievers either, the past is all the evidence we need to prove that.
william explains it beautifully when he says that the Old Testament is not what is meant to be followed by Christians. i hadn't read his post, and was about to type this when i scrolled up for another read through and found that my thoughts echo his: the Old Testament serves as a history; the New Testament does the same, but its teachings also replace the Old Testament teachings.
another point: only bad muslims think those bad muslims are martyrs.
julz
Posted By: William
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 08:08
Aight, Matt buys your game, ye make peace, and we all goto Jesus camp in the pope mobile(which of course, is now rigged with v2 rockets and pipebombs). Who's in?
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 15:24
Quote:
whoa whoa! settle down! ur obviously not getting my point in the first place im not saying that those muslims aren't being extreme, im saying that they aren't being extreme muslims, meaning they aren't doing what they do because they are super muslims, but because they think they are and are misinterpreting their own doctrines.
When do you call someone a Christian? In my humble opinion when they see themselves as being a Christian. Same goes for muslims. Try convincing a muslim extremist he's not a 'real' muslim, it won't work. Infact, it's best not even to try ...
Quote:
only bad muslims think those bad muslims are martyrs.
This really is untrue. Look in the koran, there are lines who support actions in favour of their religion, infact similar lines can be found in the bible too. If you like, I could quote some.
Quote:
those who have been unfriendly to nonbelievers get no encouragement from the New Testament, and in fact are told not to all over the place. they are just misinterpreting their own doctrines, or missing some key information.
I definately agree with your argument here, however it still doesn't make them 'not christian' in any way, because that's what you're trying to prove, right?
The difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is quite strange to bring up too. Yes, the Old Testament may be pretty violent indeed, however I've never heard a Christian judge the content of the Old Testament and saying it's wrong or what it teaches isn't right. Instead, they wave it away as 'history', like you do.
Besides, on the extreme sides, the Old Testament is generally seen as the truth, simply because it's older and more 'authentic'.
Quote:
Probably because the bible teaches that we'll go to hell if we murder people?
Infact, the Koran teaches this too, however there are certain 'exceptions', just like in Christianity. Why else do you think it has been such a big issue in the past wether or not 'native americans' actually had a soul and really were human and stuff like that?
Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 15:42
Quote:
Who's in?
I'm in !
Count me in please!!! @ Phemox
Okay, but don't forget friend that both white man and native american's were racist against each other. The only difference between them was that the white man had the bigger guns and weaponry.
There were many Indian raids that targeting only white people in those days and they killed everyone.
They killed soldiers, women, children, whatever...Racism is just a human industry and keeps going on for centuries.
Posted By: testDummy
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 16:44
Ran Man, if you want to generate more sales, and I tend to think that you might like to do so, perhaps you should refrain from personifying and characterizing 'god' in your 'own image'. Maybe you shouldn't insert your own word choices into dialog spoken by 'god' in software you produce. Some parties might consider such actions to be blasphemous and profane.
If this absolute statement is slightly bumped out of context, it seems to imply that there is only one difference between 'Native Americans' and 'Whitemen'. Because this implication is seemingly absurd, I may assume that a reverse interpretation was intended.
This may read like a pep talk with a smidgeon of "I just learned to multiply and I'm really pleased with myself".
Quote:
The only difference between them was that the white man had the bigger guns and weaponry.
If this absolute statement is slightly bumped out of context, it seems to imply that there is only one difference between 'Native Americans' and 'Whitemen'. Because this implication is seemingly absurd, I may assume that a reverse interpretation was intended.
Quote:
"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding."
This may read like a pep talk with a smidgeon of "I just learned to multiply and I'm really pleased with myself".
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/25/06 17:28
Quote:
There were many Indian raids that targeting only white people in those days and they killed everyone.
But you probably know damn well what caused them to start behaving like that, ran man old pal ...
It has also been because white people, stupid as they were
, couldn't understand that indians never heard of 'own property' in the way the white people understood that concept. The natives their interest in the things the white people brought with them isn't more than logical, everyone would be curious in such a situation. I could go on telling you about why you're view so wrong, but i fear it would be a waste of time. Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 04:33
@ PheMox
Yes, but historically not all the Indians acted the same. The "Cherokee Indians were mostly peaceful and did not act the same as the Apache Indians. I think the Cherokee's were smarter and realized the White people had supperior weaponry maybe?
@ testDummy
Hmnn, yes excellent point. I've been a little worried about that actually. Take for example this level I'm working on below. That jolly roger is animated and talks this below.
God --> HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT A SALVATION? HOW?!
So, God is talking through the "Jolly Roger".
It might freak out some hyper traditionals I think...
Now, Sure this actually is part of a bible verse, but no doubt that "traditional" folks might get mad. Well, I guess at least the atheist will like it maybe?
Yes, but historically not all the Indians acted the same. The "Cherokee Indians were mostly peaceful and did not act the same as the Apache Indians. I think the Cherokee's were smarter and realized the White people had supperior weaponry maybe?
@ testDummy
Quote:
Ran Man, Maybe you shouldn't insert your own word choices into dialog spoken by 'god' in software you produce. Some parties might consider such actions to be blasphemous and profane.
Hmnn, yes excellent point.
I've been a little worried about that actually. Take for example this level I'm working on below. That jolly roger is animated and talks this below.God --> HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT A SALVATION? HOW?!
So, God is talking through the "Jolly Roger".
It might freak out some hyper traditionals I think...
Now, Sure this actually is part of a bible verse, but no doubt that "traditional" folks might get mad. Well, I guess at least the atheist will like it maybe?
Quote:
HEBREWS 2:3
How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
Posted By: William
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 05:32
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Count me in please!!!
Only if you help me mount this BFG I found. I hear it really does a number to them demons.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 09:43
Quote:
Yes, but historically not all the Indians acted the same.
Before or after white men screwed up?
Cheers
Posted By: JibbSmart
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 13:17
oh dear, phemox i kno neither of us wants this to turn into an argument, so im not expecting to make u agree with me here, but just clarifying a few things.
however, i'd like to point out that many Christians do admit to thinking they were Christians once and knowing they weren't really. most Christians would agree there's a big difference between just saying ur a Christian and being one.
secondly, i can almost guarantee that any "Christian" verses promoting violence that u can find are in the Old Testament. it isn't untrue, but it isn't what we Christians believe in doing. all that God wants us to do can be found in the New Testament. if u manage to find any violence promoting verses in the New Testament, read around them for their context. many well known lessons in the New Testament encourage "loving ur enemy", lessons of humility, and even so far as to "turn the other cheek" (tho most people wont actually do this).
also, im not saying that those Christians who misunderstand the Bible and do the wrong things are not Christians. they just aren't being very good Christians. it is through spiritual immaturity that they do these things, and they need to mature by reading and meditating on the Bible more.
must dash. bed time now. not expecting u to completely agree with me, but im sure u see where i am coming from
julz
however, i'd like to point out that many Christians do admit to thinking they were Christians once and knowing they weren't really. most Christians would agree there's a big difference between just saying ur a Christian and being one.
secondly, i can almost guarantee that any "Christian" verses promoting violence that u can find are in the Old Testament. it isn't untrue, but it isn't what we Christians believe in doing. all that God wants us to do can be found in the New Testament. if u manage to find any violence promoting verses in the New Testament, read around them for their context. many well known lessons in the New Testament encourage "loving ur enemy", lessons of humility, and even so far as to "turn the other cheek" (tho most people wont actually do this).
also, im not saying that those Christians who misunderstand the Bible and do the wrong things are not Christians. they just aren't being very good Christians. it is through spiritual immaturity that they do these things, and they need to mature by reading and meditating on the Bible more.
must dash. bed time now. not expecting u to completely agree with me, but im sure u see where i am coming from
julz
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 13:44
Quote:Quote:
Yes, but historically not all the Indians acted the same.
Before or after white men screwed up?
Cheers
Both white man and Indians were racist pigs.
Look at this article below for example:
Quote:
Native American tribes often fought against each other and then when the when the early colonists came, many of the wars became focused on driving the white man out of the land.
http://www.indians.org/articles/arrowheads.html
Those Indians really butchered each other before we got here.
It is documented by Mayan writings that the "Maya" Indians even "blood" sacrificed to death their Indian opponents.
No wonder they were called "Savages?"
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 15:35
Quote:
also, im not saying that those Christians who misunderstand the Bible and do the wrong things are not Christians.
Well, actually that is exactly what you tried to tell me. Sorry if not, but then I've simply misunderstood you.
@Ran_man: Believe what you like, but just because there have been wars between tribes too, doesn't mean you can justify the butchering that happened once the white people came there. If war (crimes) are a sign of savagery, then take a look at the U.S. ... I know it'll make you feel bad, that's why you wish to deny it, but those indians were victims, not enemies...
Quote:
Native American tribes often fought against each other and then when the when the early colonists came, many of the wars became focused on driving the white man out of the land.
They 'often fought against eachother' is a bit exagerated. Yes, there have been some wars between tribes, but not more than we had in that time, probably much less. Chiefs liked to boast about pretty much anything, just look at the numbers in the texts, the amounts mentioned simply aren't possible. The 'historical texts' can't be trusted 100%.
Infact, if you knew a bit more about the Maya and other tribes of that period in time, you would have known that in those times large trading networks existed, pretty much the best sign of a pretty peaceful society. When you are at war, such things are not that easy to maintain.
Blood sacrifice was part of their religion -> I'm not saying it's right, but I do agree with you that religion is a sign of savagery indeed.
Cheers
Posted By: Stansmedia
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 18:28
Bastards. These people are going to end the world by 'corrupting' their youth. I feel sorry for the kids, because I don't think there ever going to know what free choice is like. It drives me nuts because I bet you all a dollar that very VERY FEW of those kids are going to come to there senses when they reach adulthood, and no matter what you could say would not convince them otherwise. Sheep is what they are, the religion tells them all these things that are wrong and THREATEN THEM WITH HELL so they have no choice but to "accept" God.
It's so sick.
It's so sick.
Posted By: Ran Man
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 19:18
Quote:Yes, it certainly can be...
but I do agree with you that religion is a sign of savagery indeed.
Hopefully things will get better soon.
Perhaps I can help?
@ Stansmedia
Nobody denies free choice. Nobody denies free FUN also!
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Jesus Camp film trailer - 10/26/06 20:39
Quote:
Yes, it certainly can be..
It certainly is ..
Quote:
Nobody denies free choice.
Omg ...
Cheers