Christian Life, are you saved?

Posted By: Kinji_2007

Christian Life, are you saved? - 04/30/07 01:21

Christian to Christian. I am learning and of course I study the Word trying to find answers. I am convinced that I know what most people in the world think about us. I know what atheists think about us. Now I would like to know what you think about "us". Better than passing judgment on a brother I would rather you explain yourself. When you talk about Christians today it is much easier to point your finger at yourself and start explaiing there. So a few simple questions that may help me understand things better. Please involve yourself in this topic if you claim Christianity. I want to know how we work as a whole.

1) Are you saved?

2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?

3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?

I am searching for truth beyond my current knowledge and perhaps beyond yours. If you clai to be a Christian then you of course are required to help a brother in need. I need your answers.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 04/30/07 02:06

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1) Are you saved?



YES.
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2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?

Because I believe the scripture which says: "Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

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3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?

Do you mean the laws_of_the_Bible? Of course I live them to the best of my ability, but everyone is in a different place. Its very easy for me to not lie,steal and kill, but it is not so easy for me to not judge or be angry. Some sins are easier for me to avoid than others. And just because someone else is having an easier time than me doesnt me that they are better or holier than me. We all get judged not on our own merit, but on Jesus' blood.

However, the laws of the Bible are a very small part of it. I am generally more interested in the help I need for daily strength which I get from reading the promises and prayer. Sometimes I fast, but generally for a short day or two. And I usually fast for health reasons rather than spiritual, but there are some spiritual benefits from it.

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I am searching for truth beyond my current knowledge and perhaps beyond yours. If you clai to be a Christian then you of course are required to help a brother in need. I need your answers.

We all need answers, but the Bible is easy to understand, even a child can understand it, I thought the number one kinji rule was K.I.S.S(keep it simple stupid)

We all need answers, but be careful what you might do to get the answers, because sometimes the pursuit of them can bring you to places that you never wanted to go. You can easily find yourself lost, with no way home

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Jon 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Make sure that you are pure in your intentions and that your heart is right and God will show you whatever you want.
Posted By: Kinji_2007

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 04/30/07 02:44

As always I appreciate your comments. :-)

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We all need answers, but the Bible is easy to understand, even a child can understand it, I thought the number one kinji rule was K.I.S.S(keep it simple stupid)



Simple is the way to go. I knock heads with people who stray from this rule. I do find myself wrapped in God in such a way that I think the simple things have been forsaken by most of us. Read it as it is, teach it as it is and live it as is is. Spiritual problems to some of us are far worse than those of real life. Agree? We realize that our soul and God is at stake. I push harder when I come to a border. The border in this case is the life I see and the God I know. We as a whole are in trouble if we do not look beyond what we have been taught. Even more important in my case, look beyond your own interpretation of the Word and just see it simply as it is. Not gonna comment to much now because I admit I know nothing. If you would have ask me 6 months ago I would have most likely listed 5 scriptures to denounce anything you have bad to say about Jesus. I am in ignorance now and simply seek the truth.
Posted By: xXxGuitar511

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 04/30/07 03:30

I'm just gonna stay out of this one...
Posted By: Joozey

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/01/07 14:08

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I'm just gonna stay out of this one...


Too late...
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/02/07 03:33

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1) Are you saved?



Yes, I think so, but I'll tell you for sure, once I make it there.
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2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?


Yes, well there used to be ANIMAL blood sacrifices, but the bible below tells us that we are saved by GODS sacrifice alone.
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Hebrews 9:13-14
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!



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3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?


Yes, I've been "programming" all my life.

I started learning C-Script from the "Master Kinji" back in 2002.

I'm trying to use that programming ability every day and work on games, to make things that glorify God. Is that living? Yeah, I think so?

Or maybe I'm just dieing at my keyboard?

AAGGHHH, I HAVE TO FINISH IT!!!
Posted By: Kinji_2007

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/08/07 02:19

@RanMan
Sorry for such harsh questions. Those are the ones I ask myself. I simply wish to learn more from your answers. ;-)

@Guitar
We are going somewhere. Dont trust anyone as your source. (anyone living) Faith and a small amount of resourch will lead you to the path if you actually wish to find it.
This path may not go along with that dubbed "Christianity" but I search for it and hope you will also.

Just to make clear the statement above.. I believe the Word is all we have that we can hold true. Mans interpretation is not trust worthy. Read it, live it and youll be ok. In this day.. who is willing to live it?
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/08/07 13:26

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Just to make clear the statement above.. I believe the Word is all we have that we can hold true. Mans interpretation is not trust worthy. Read it, live it and youll be ok. In this day.. who is willing to live it?



Isn't the Word an "interpretation" of man too because it was written down? It was written down by man in man's language and not by God. Can we write down God's thoughts? If not, the Bible, if you believe in it, doesn't even come close to the real truth.

As for 'willing to live it', perhaps you're talking about something different, but I think a lot of religious people are not willing to. Instead, they're searching for an escape, a happy end and really seem to be more involved with their after-life than with their current lives.

I can understand that religious people think it's important, since they believe their after-life will be eternal, but when it comes to living, religious people seem to have a radically different view about what's truly important and thus are not willing to live it, instead they seem to be waiting for their time to come. Do you guys ever reach spiritual peace?

Cheers
Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/08/07 15:49

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1) Are you saved?


Yep

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2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?


Rom 10:9 covers it pretty well. I believe that Jesus Christ died for me, is the Son of God, and I accept him as my Saviour.

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3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?


This is a double-edged question, really. Do I feel I do? Definitely not. Do I try? Yes. And this is where I'll elaborate

Generally, in relation to the Christian community as a whole, I tend to disagree with some common schools of thought on controversial subjects. A lot of Christians would say I'm a terrible representation of Christianity: I curse, I am pessimistic, I'm not uplifting to others, I don't go witnessing to people, I don't even go to church much these days. And honestly, I agree wholeheartedly- I'm terrible. But I would also point the finger right back; there is no Christian in this world that is "good," nor are they a shining example of Christianity. We all are fallen people and we all screw up.

The fact of the matter is that it isn't about pointing the finger. It isn't about comparing yourself to other Christians in your "walk with Christ" to tell if you are a "good Christian." It's about your relationship with Christ- and that's between just you and Him, not anyone else.

The priest at the church I've attended on and off for the last few months has become a good friend of my Fiancee and I, and over lunch we were talking about this very subject. He put it different than I had heard before, but it struck home. He explained how much time we could put into "following the rules." Not swearing, uplifting others, going to Church, reading your Bible regularly, etc. Not that these aren't things you should work on, but when it becomes the focus of Christian life, there is a disconnect. He continued on, saying that instead of trying to achieve these things, decide what is moral, that he thought it was better to first try to do the best you can with what you're given. If I swear, so what? That's God's place to judge, and if it isn't hurting anyone, so be it; forget about it unless it becomes a problem and instead focus on helping the poor, being there for your friend who needs someone to talk to, and other things that are focused on others rather than yourself.


Another person that had a great number of things to say was one of my favorite authors, Donald Miller. I saw him last fall for a talk he gave, followed by a book signing; he talked about how "free market economy" had been infiltrating everything in society. Sounds a like an odd way to start talking about God. Then he asked the question,"How many of you have heard that Jesus would fix all your problems?" Everyone raised their hands. Then he asked, "Is there anyone here that doesn't have any problems?" Noone raised their hand. Even Christianity is being marketed, "Jesus will fix your problems, Jesus will make you happy" just like a new car will make your happy, or a new cleaning solution for your kitchen will fix all your family's problems and everyone will walk around with smiles on their faces (you know you've seen the commercials). That's advertising, sell people things saying they will fix all kinds of problems that aren't even related to the product. The he made his point "Jesus is one shitty product." Silence. "Face it, he isn't a cure-all, he isn't a magic product that fixes all of life's problems. In fact, he said that the road would be hard. He never said it was a cake walk." Jesus can't be marketed, he can't be sold. He isn't a product. He's the solution to a gap man created between themselves and God, not a genie. This doesn't mean Jesus won't fix those problems, that he won't help you overcome obstacles put in front of you, but that isn't his first concern. His first concern is loving you, you loving Him, and Him taking you to a life of eternity with Him. Christianity isn't a utopia, it's more like the front-line of a war. You may be persecuted, you will be misunderstood, you'll be ridiculed, and so on.

We're saved because we believe, not because we do good works, or because we follow the Law. It's because we believe.


Disclaimer: I know a lot of Christians will disagree with some of what I said, I've heard the arguments before- just know that this is only a small tidbit of the whole picture.. and is probably firstly difficult to fully understand, and also still probably contrary to you what you believe.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/08/07 15:57

Quote:


Another person that had a great number of things to say was one of my favorite authors, Donald Miller. I saw him last fall for a talk he gave, followed by a book signing; he talked about how "free market economy" had been infiltrating everything in society. Sounds a like an odd way to start talking about God. Then he asked the question,"How many of you have heard that Jesus would fix all your problems?" Everyone raised their hands. Then he asked, "Is there anyone here that doesn't have any problems?" Noone raised their hand. Even Christianity is being marketed, "Jesus will fix your problems, Jesus will make you happy" just like a new car will make your happy, or a new cleaning solution for your kitchen will fix all your family's problems and everyone will walk around with smiles on their faces (you know you've seen the commercials). That's advertising, sell people things saying they will fix all kinds of problems that aren't even related to the product. The he made his point "Jesus is one shitty product." Silence. "Face it, he isn't a cure-all, he isn't a magic product that fixes all of life's problems. In fact, he said that the road would be hard. He never said it was a cake walk." Jesus can't be marketed, he can't be sold. He isn't a product. He's the solution to a gap man created between themselves and God, not a genie. This doesn't mean Jesus won't fix those problems, that he won't help you overcome obstacles put in front of you, but that isn't his first concern. His first concern is loving you, you loving Him, and Him taking you to a life of eternity with Him. Christianity isn't a utopia, it's more like the front-line of a war. You may be persecuted, you will be misunderstood, you'll be ridiculed, and so on.



Yeah, that's mainly why I don't like organized religion, or at least why I don't like churches. What's that famous quote again? I think it was:

"How much money does Jesus need anyways, I thought he was in the saving business?"

Pretty much enough said, I agree that it's about what you believe in, not what you do. Some are physically limited in what they can do, so it would be unfair in respect to this equal love. Or does Jesus love some more than others?

Cheers
Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 02:41

I killed the thread... lol
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 13:40

I hope not, I'd like to know what other Christians think about your view on this,

Cheers
Posted By: lostclimate

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 15:42

I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?
Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 16:15

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I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?



Thanks . I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this similar viewpoint. I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know. If they flat out said that that was their focus, I'd probably refute it, but only if I knew them on a personal level. Someone they don't know refuting their line of thought would come across the opposite that it was intended. In the end, unless I know the person and we are mutually accountable to eachother, I don't say much about what they believe- it's God's place to judge.


This criticism and opinion is directed towards a generalized Christian audience...
Another thing that I see in the world is Christians trying to condemn the actions of an unbeliever. This is a rare exception to the rule of not addressing it with someone I don't know very well. I cannot think of a single place in the Bible where Jesus condemns a non-believer. In fact, Paul says (can't remember where, Corinthians I think) that it is foolish to think that someone who does not believe will understand the things of God (and his morals). Because they don't believe in God, they don't have a concrete or familiar basis for a moral code, which means they can't understand why one thing is wrong and another isn't as you would try to explain. (Not saying there wouldn't be any agreement, there would be, but where there is disagreement, using the Bible is useless since they don't believe it anyway) It's futile to yell at the world for it's sins, since it doesn't understand it is sinful, or that it should be concerned about it. Someone first has to realize they are fallen before they can get up. While we Christians attack the "hot issues" floating above today, the world is taking pot-shots at our foundation. We're trying to shoot down arrows, while they are cutting our legs away.

-Rhuarc
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 17:06

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This is a double-edged question, really. Do I feel I do? Definitely not. Do I try? Yes.



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I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know



You contradict yourself, in one post you say you try, in the next you say have to would not condemn those who "try".


Christians who sin without remorse are walking contradictions, clearly seen and mocked by this world, and put Christ to an open shame. They think the world loves them and embraces their "tolerance", but mostly the world despises them for their compromises. Of these Peter speaks about in the following verse:

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While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


And the writer of Hebrews sums it up nicely.

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For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Of course, everyone must judge where they are with God. I have no idea about the status of others' soul, and I hate to admit it, but generally I dont care. If someone's going to hell purposely, and they have already heard the gospel and believed, personally I wouldnt waste much time on them. Why should I? They already have the facts to make a decision, and they are old enough to do so.
Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 17:45

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Quote:

This is a double-edged question, really. Do I feel I do? Definitely not. Do I try? Yes.



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I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know



You contradict yourself, in one post you say you try, in the next you say have to would not condemn those who "try".



I never said I try to be the "best Christian" (in the context of a competition is how I meant that). I try to do the best with what I am given.

My point is this: Yes, I sin. So do you. It's there. It isn't that I don't work on these things, it's that I choose to focus firstly on the relationship I have with Christ, secondly with working on those things which bring others down, and lastly on my own inner struggles. What I said above is where I am at. I'm not perfect, but I'm working towards being the best I can. My opinion is, so what? I sin. I can be honest about it. I don't try to hide it or cover it up. Everyone knows that noone can be perfect, and trying to pretend like you aren't an imperfect human being to someone you are trying to "convert" or whatever is trying to sell something more than what you really are. You're trying to sell perfection, when you yourself are not perfect. If I witness to someone, I start by telling them that I'm the same as them- I screw up, I am far from perfect myself. Then I listen and hear where they are coming from. I'm not going to condemn them for it because it doesn't matter if they change their ways, it only matters if they give their life to Christ in the end. That isn't my decision to make, all I can do is present it. If they don't accept, fine. It's their decision, the blood is off of my hands. BUT- that doesn't mean I'm going to abandon them. I will still be there as a friend to be there to listen when they need it, regardless of their decision- and I may never even bring the subject up again.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:20

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I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?



Interesting. It's exactly how some (Dutch) Christians in my neighborhood are behaving. As if it's "cool" to be a Christian. Well, I'm sure it is cool and all, no offense to anyone, but being part of the 'in crowd' shouldn't be the number one goal when it comes to belief. I bet quite a few don't even honestly believe at all, but just want to be part of something.

Unfortunately, in the Netherlands religious people are becoming more fanatical, Christians too, because there are less and less of them, but instead of focusing on things that really matter, it becomes more and more important to let people see that it's cool to be part of the 'in crowd', as if it's a secret society which involves magic and God knows what... it's aimed at convincing people to join so bad they loose sight of the real important things. Lol, and I'm not even a Christian,

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:23

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never said I try to be the "best Christian" (in the context of a competition is how I meant that). I try to do the best with what I am given.



oh ok, I understand now, it just sounds weird to me that kinji and lostclimate, yourself and some others here seem to bash all the other Christians for a)either being too legalistic or competitive b)not being legalistic enough and when I try to find the truth between the two viewpoints the only thing that matters to me is thus:

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that I choose to focus firstly on the relationship I have with Christ

Which I agree with 100%. However, if you say you care about Jesus, how can you hate other Christians? Especially since Jesus is supposed to be living in the hearts of those who believe? Im not saying your a hater, Im not saying anyone is, but if you more concerned whether someone in the world is gonna get their toes stepped on because you live a good life, are you going to change your ways just to make them happy? If Im trying to let people know the love of Christ is for those who have abortions should I have my wife have an abortion just so that I can show them that I can relate? Or should I all of a sudden say that abortion is ok because I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings? I dont believe so, I believe abortion is murder, I will never stop beliveing that, I would always call a spade a spade. I think homosexuality is perverse, I think sex before marriage is profane, I think alcohol is a killer, I think some swearing is blasphemous, and the list goes on. Do I hate you if you do something which is a sim against the Bible? No. But I will never say that these things are ok just because "I dont want to judge" , if I did that it would be a compromise and one thing the world does not need to see is more Christians make compromises, thats my two cents.

Just yesterday my neighbor got hauled away in a police car for beating his wife, of which his six year old testified to the police officer. The guy drank lots of alcohol which caused him to hurt her. Do I hate the guy? No.(but its a close one) But I do hate violence like that, and I hate what divorce and alcoholism does to families. (Dont get me started on divorce Ill never stop)
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:37

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I think sex before marriage is profane



I think of it as exercise and preview, because to be honest I'd hate divorce probably as much as you do.

On the more serious side though, sex should be something special between lovers, so ideally no one-night stands, still nobody's perfect I guess,

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:40

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Interesting. It's exactly how some (Dutch) Christians in my neighborhood are behaving. As if it's "cool" to be a Christian. Well, I'm sure it is cool and all, no offense to anyone, but being part of the 'in crowd' shouldn't be the number one goal when it comes to belief. I bet quite a few don't even honestly believe at all, but just want to be part of something.

Unfortunately, in the Netherlands religious people are becoming more fanatical, Christians too, because there are less and less of them, but instead of focusing on things that really matter, it becomes more and more important to let people see that it's cool to be part of the 'in crowd', as if it's a secret society which involves magic and God knows what... it's aimed at convincing people to join so bad they loose sight of the real important things. Lol, and I'm not even a Christian,

Well it is certainly not cool to be a Christian on this forum.

Its a good point Phemox. And one of the coolest things you can do as a man or woman is to take a stand for what you believe in regardless of what your friends, teachers, preachers, spouses or even you parents think, and it is in this theme which I believe is the reason Jesus wrote:

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If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.




Jesus wasnt telling people that they should immediately go out and hate their mother and father, what he was saying is that if you are not ready to reject other people's beliefs for Jesus' teachings no matter who they are, then you cannot truly follow him.

Its a sober warning that we all need to follow, me included, because it is easy for me also to make choices based upon what other people think, especially people that are close to me. But we cant make choices based on what others may think, we must make choices based upon our own honest core beliefs.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:51

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I think sex before marriage is profane


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think of it as exercise and preview, because to be honest I'd hate divorce probably as much as you do.

On the more serious side though, sex should be something special between lovers, so ideally no one-night stands, still nobody's perfect I guess,

Right, well the reason I think its profane is because I think that sex is literally getting to know someone the best you can ever possibly know someone on earth(except possibly being contained in someones womb). When you have sex with someone, you are seeing them closer, seeing them more intimately than any other way. So you are actually going into their "sacred" areas(if you will allow me to use the word "sacred" to apply to humans). So to see, know and feel someone that close, and then to walk away from them without the lasting committment of lifelong marriage to me is to committ a tresspassing on "sacred" ground. Thats why I consider it profane if it is outside the confines of marriage.

Before I was a Christian I had sex before marriage, but I regret it because they take a peice of me with them wherever they go, and I take a "piece" of them. I think sex is to "become one" with another, then when you walk away from that person you are tearing the bond apart. It is profane.

Even if you "think" you are in love. However people dont realize that true love will stay and committ, it is not only when you have "nice feelings" about someone. True lovers committ to each other and will stay together even when things become very difficult.

I am glad I have been married for 13 years, and I am happier every year.

As I said I wouldnt hate someone because they have sex before marriage, but I think it is destructive. And I think that you could find yourself in a situation where you no longer even know what love is, which is a tragic situation.
Posted By: Rhuarc

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 18:53

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Which I agree with 100%. However, if you say you care about Jesus, how can you hate other Christians? Especially since Jesus is supposed to be living in the hearts of those who believe? Im not saying your a hater, Im not saying anyone is, but if you more concerned whether someone in the world is gonna get their toes stepped on because you live a good life, are you going to change your ways just to make them happy? If Im trying to let people know the love of Christ is for those who have abortions should I have my wife have an abortion just so that I can show them that I can relate? Or should I all of a sudden say that abortion is ok because I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings? I dont believe so, I believe abortion is murder, I will never stop beliveing that, I would always call a spade a spade. I think homosexuality is perverse, I think sex before marriage is profane, I think alcohol is a killer, I think some swearing is blasphemous, and the list goes on. Do I hate you if you do something which is a sim against the Bible? No. But I will never say that these things are ok just because "I dont want to judge" , if I did that it would be a compromise and one thing the world does not need to see is more Christians make compromises, thats my two cents.



I don't disagree with much of anything here. I don't think anyone should sin for the sake of being able to relate; and I don't do so. However, I've been through a lot of crap in life, and I can either choose to forget about it, or I can use it to help me understand others and be there for them when they need someone to talk to.

Here's an example on what I mean about some of these things: Take swearing. It's a collection of words that are considered "curses" in our language. But they also have other meanings. You can use the words without sin, but you can also use them sinfully. As a metaphor, think about a chair (as language). I can use it how it was intended, and sit on it. Or I can stand on it to use it for a stool even, not it's original design intent, but I don't sin by doing either. Now, I can take the chair and hit you with it- that is sin. Likewise, I can say that I am sitting on my ass being a forumrat for a while today. Not sinning. But if I go and say you're an ass hole, I am sinning (no worries, I don't think anything of the sort of you.. for metaphorical purposes only ). I chose not to elaborate on this to avoid having to elaborate my post into several pages . Some people are offended by just the word, so I try to not use those words at all around them or people I'm unsure about. But around those I know are not bothered by it, and I know their consciences aren't defiled or weakened by it (see Paul's "meat offered to sacrafices" writing, can't remember where), I don't hold my tongue. I look at things in morality by finding where the real problem is, it's the curse, not the word. A curse is not a word, it is an ill-meant utterance, but the English language has made the two very synonymous.

I never said I hated Christians, I said I disagreed with some of what they commonly believe and do. There is a difference between "judging" and "discerning." Judging is making a conclusion about someone by their actions- discerning is being able to recognize that the action itself is right or wrong. I'm not going to call out a person for doing something wrong if it isn't hurting anyone, because it is only going to cause resentment, it will not be received as it is intended. If they are hurting another person through their action, I will likely call it out in attempt to stop it, not in attempt to save them from their own action. I can't save them from their own action, much less convince them it is wrong unless they believe in morality on an equal footing. If I can argue it without the bible, I may attempt to convince them, but if it requires belief in an absolute moral system- it's a waste of time to try. For example, there is no way to convince someone that sex before marriage is wrong without using the
Bible. You can say it is unfair to potential future people they may share sex with, but then they can refute and say what it is days before a wedding with thier betrothed? The commitment of marriage is more certain than the possibility of divorce throwing it back into the same problem- another future partner. You're left without a concrete defense without the morals set forth in the Bible. Even in the Bible, there are many ways to argue exceptions and more depending on how your interpret things- but if the other person also has a footing in the Bible, there is a way to convince them that it is wrong.
EDIT: in addition to the sex before marriage after your last post.. you say "sacred" and that illustrates my point. What if the person doesn't believe it is "sacred" or that you "become one" with the other person? If they don't believe that, how do you convince them when you are looking at it from two completely different worldviews? You can't.

This is just me elaborating on some things you mentioned showing you what I mean further behind my words.

EDIT: also realize that a lot of what I say above is in response, although if standalone I would probably put things differently (or not bother at all... lol). Trying not to open a whole new can of worms
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 19:53

Quote:

I'm not going to call out a person for doing something wrong if it isn't hurting anyone, because it is only going to cause resentment, it will not be received as it is intended. If they are hurting another person through their action, I will likely call it out in attempt to stop it, not in attempt to save them from their own action. I can't save them from their own action, much less convince them it is wrong unless they believe in morality on an equal footing. If I can argue it without the bible, I may attempt to convince them, but if it requires belief in an absolute moral system- it's a waste of time to try. For example, there is no way to convince someone that sex before marriage is wrong without using the
Bible

I understand your point. You cant really convince anyone of anything, and I dont try, Im not talking about just going up to people and preaching at them. It never happens that way. For me I keep quiet untill someone insists on talking about it. They have some kind of leftist liberal political opinion or some opinion about Christians and they start blabbing it out at work or school or something. Well since last time I checked I was in America I think I have just as much a right to offer my humble opinion as they do.

So yeah, I understand what you mean that Christians shouldnt just go around approaching people telling them that they are going to hell, but in all my years I have rarely EVER seen a Christian that behaves so badly. The vast majority of this usually occurs when some one brings up the subject at work or on_a_forum, then guess what? There is such thing as free speech, and all Im saying is that Christians can say what they want, and they dont have to water down their beliefs or refuse to say them just because they think the world might dissapprove.

But Im really happy about what your saying and I agree with you probably 98% of it. You have to remeber that I have seen you personally progress from a tight fisted conservative Christian to a liberal rebellious Christian and now you seem to be finding some middle ground, which I think is great. And of course we all have a lot of respect for you intelligence and programming skills. So I was a little worried about the possibility that you might have hung around NArdulus too long. LOL.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/10/07 19:53

Quote:

As I said I wouldnt hate someone because they have sex before marriage, but I think it is destructive. And I think that you could find yourself in a situation where you no longer even know what love is, which is a tragic situation.



Very true. When I'm honest, just like you more or less said, it's really really hard to determine whether or not it's actually real love and what you said is correct, true love will last 'forever'.
Still even if a marriage isn't even in sight, I think people can have such strong feelings that sex is somehow justified. I do see where you're coming from though and I do agree,

Cheers
Posted By: lostclimate

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/11/07 04:12

Quote:


So yeah, I understand what you mean that Christians shouldnt just go around approaching people telling them that they are going to hell, but in all my years I have rarely EVER seen a Christian that behaves so badly. The vast majority of this usually occurs when some one brings up the subject at work or on_a_forum, then guess what? There is such thing as free speech, and all Im saying is that Christians can say what they want, and they dont have to water down their beliefs or refuse to say them just because they think the world might dissapprove.




You'd be surprised how much of the Christian population is like this tho. I have left congregations not because I didnt want to go to church, but because some of the ways that the majority of some of the members acted, the problem with typical christians is they dont use any critical thinking skills, such as for the swearing thing... most people are taught by thier parents that swearing is bad... but they never stop and ask why, its only offensive because what?... because we decided as a society that [censored] is worse than the word crap? but because our traditionalist mentality in the christian churchs deems it blasphemy if you disagree with a pastor, most people just march like puppets following this "tradition"
Posted By: Blattsalat

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/11/07 06:37

I think that sex before marriage is a must. and the funny thing is, because of the exact reasons posted above.
To be able to share a happy marriage you will have to "know" the person as good as you can.
and since sex is the most intimate situation you can get in with another person (or more ) you will have to take the step first to be able to judge right. anything else would be just guessing, if you are honest.

i also disagree with the statement that sex before marriage make you leave and lose some of yourself every time.

Imagine meeting a stranger and having a good conversation. something as personal as sex for example can be.
this, like sex, can enchance your life dramaticly if you allow it. it doesnt take away somthing from you but adds lots to your life.

you can decide not to have sex, drink or eat lemons before your marriage. if this is what you want nobody should have anything against it or say anything against it.

but it also wont make your marriage better because of that or more honest or true.

how many good or best friends did you have in your life. due to our lifestyle and speed they come and go. And just because i cant spend more time with my best friend from highschool aynmore his friendship was not wrong, nor took it away something, nor do i want to miss those times.

as the people you never wanted to meet, also those who you had more intimate relationships with, will form your life.
they help you become the person you are. but this requires you to accept it.

have sex!
cheers
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/11/07 11:42

Quote:

I think that sex before marriage is a must. and the funny thing is, because of the exact reasons posted above.
To be able to share a happy marriage you will have to "know" the person as good as you can.
and since sex is the most intimate situation you can get in with another person (or more ) you will have to take the step first to be able to judge right. anything else would be just guessing, if you are honest.



You've got a point I guess.

Quote:

i also disagree with the statement that sex before marriage make you leave and lose some of yourself every time.

Imagine meeting a stranger and having a good conversation. something as personal as sex for example can be.
this, like sex, can enchance your life dramaticly if you allow it. it doesnt take away somthing from you but adds lots to your life.



Okey, but a conversation with a stranger doesn't quite cover it, perhaps unless you'll have sex right after just meeting your new girlfriend off course ... I don't know, but I normally get to know my girlfriends first, lol. By the way, you've got to admit you more or less get 'exposed' when having sex, so you do 'lose' something I think.

Quote:

you can decide not to have sex, drink or eat lemons before your marriage. if this is what you want nobody should have anything against it or say anything against it.

but it also wont make your marriage better because of that or more honest or true.



Very true, but it's about feelings, the emotional side. Off course it doesn't make a marriage better or more honest that way, true. However if you've found 'the one' so to speak, and it seems Nitro might have , you'd wish you had not give anyone other but her the full view into your life so to speak, so basically I understand where he's coming from and agree actually.

I don't see any reason to not have sex before marriage per say, however it should happen with someone you really love, even if it turns out to be one-sided love or no love at all, the only way to find out, is to try I guess,

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/11/07 13:52

Quote:

You'd be surprised how much of the Christian population is like this tho. I have left congregations not because I didnt want to go to church, but because some of the ways that the majority of some of the members acted, the problem with typical christians is they dont use any critical thinking skills, such as for the swearing thing... most people are taught by thier parents that swearing is bad... but they never stop and ask why, its only offensive because what?... because we decided as a society that [censored] is worse than the word crap? but because our traditionalist mentality in the christian churchs deems it blasphemy if you disagree with a pastor, most people just march like puppets following this "tradition"

I agree with you 100%, yet your talking about a church dynamic as opposed to a Christian out in the world dynamic. I definitely see some unrealistic expectations from church pastors towards the church members, but thats different from how Christians portray things in the world. And I think thats a reason for a lot of confusion, I lay the blame mostly on the pastors and preachers.

Quote:

To be able to share a happy marriage you will have to "know" the person as good as you can.
and since sex is the most intimate situation you can get in with another person (or more ) you will have to take the step first to be able to judge right. anything else would be just guessing, if you are honest.



Your assuming that sex would help you determine if you loved someone, yet sex does in no way determine if someone is "loveable". Sex is an act that occurs with someone that you have already loved. If you can only determine that you loved someone based upon how happy you are when your having sex with them, then you are a shallow person indeed.

You talk about sex eliminating the guesswork. Yet sex is sex, if I see a girl that is very hot looking, I really dont need to have sex with her to know if the sex will be good, sex is definitely good with whatever girl your attracted to. Sex is universal not individual, sex will physically feel good with whatever girl you do it with.

And I also can tell you from experience that sex with someone you truly love is much more satisfying than with women that you dont love, and in some cases with women that you dont even particularly like.

So the whole idea of needing to know a girl sexually before you can determine if you love them is a lie, and it is the same lie which has been used by men to get women into bed for decades.

Sex is going to be good with whatever girl you are attracted to, whether she can hang off the ceiling fan during intercourse or whatever skill she has is no basis for a relationship, and is certainly no basis for love.

According to that mentality a guy would have to sexually sample as much of the female population as possible because "there can always be someone better"

Quote:

Very true, but it's about feelings, the emotional side. Off course it doesn't make a marriage better or more honest that way, true. However if you've found 'the one' so to speak, and it seems Nitro might have , you'd wish you had not give anyone other but her the full view into your life so to speak, so basically I understand where he's coming from and agree actually.

Ya, and you would be surprised how many people ask me how we managed to have such a happy marriage when their lives are so complicated and messed up. I have talked to many girls in their late 20's who now are wishing they had children or someone like me who would love them and committ, but now they are finding that guys simply dont want them as much because they are getting older and they have so much "experience". No guy wants to committ to them because they are all too busy having these tenuous relationships. Trust me, your early 20's dont last long at all.

edit:after all, noone wants to be stuck alone listening to old air supply songs, noone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lE6Htee0sA
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/11/07 20:25

Quote:

and I dont try, Im not talking about just going up to people and preaching at them. It never happens that way.


Why not?

Just make a game that does it for you?

NOAH 2 SOUNDCLIPS

TURN! TURN FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS!

and

THE LAKE OF FIRE!


But, if you present it like I did, then they might laugh their little tails off, but oh well.


Hey, but nice thread going here guys. Too bad I have no time to participate. I'm trying to program MULTIPLAYER right now and do a level and graphics and are just dieing. Sheesh. <too much work>
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 02:10

Quote:

and I dont try, Im not talking about just going up to people and preaching at them. It never happens that way.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why not?

Oh I preach at them, just not the way they might expect.

Multiplayer. Wow, your really creating a new thing, I havent heard of too many mul;tiplayer kids games, I pray your game gets blessed.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 17:19

Quote:

Yet sex is sex, if I see a girl that is very hot looking, I really dont need to have sex with her to know if the sex will be good, sex is definitely good with whatever girl your attracted to. Sex is universal not individual, sex will physically feel good with whatever girl you do it with.



I tend to disagree to some extent, for some relationships sex is a real killer actually. There has to be sóme good sex and looks isn't everything when it comes to sex (not quite saying you said it is though).

Cheers
Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 17:30

I must say in this case I tend to agree with Nitro

" Your assuming that sex would help you determine if you loved someone, yet sex does in no way determine if someone is "loveable". "
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 17:37

Well, to some extent it does actually, to some extent it definitely doesn't.

Married people who see other people do so because of their sexual needs, not because they do not really love someone. Sure, if you really love someone you'd expect the person to live with it and accept the fact that their sexual relationship is bad or perhaps even none-existent for whatever reason, but it doesn't work that way. Perhaps it's just our animal side, but it definitely matters,

Cheers
Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 18:00

I dont mean sex is not important for a relationship but I suppose that Nitro meant :

Males wish to make love with any nice looking females even though they dont love them

If so, I agree at least it is my case

It seems that female's psycology is different
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 19:50

Quote:

Males wish to make love with any nice looking females even though they dont love them



I might be missing a point here either way, sorry.

Pretty girls don't automatically mean great sex, so when it's purely for sex, it must be based on our animalistic bias towards 'beautiful'. Can this bias make us feel as if 'in love'? I don't think so. It can however cloud a men's judgment and let you do stupid things, but that's a totally different story.

From a more rational perspective amazingly hot girls are cool to date with, but you usually don't date them alone. Besides, jealousy's a bitch too, whether on the right side or wrong side doesn't matter.

All that aside though, I personally think we are made to believe that we select girls based upon their pretty faces, but in reality even men look at more than that. Sure, I think we can agree that most "wouldn't mind" to share a bed with a pretty woman, however there's more to it when it comes to real relationships and love.

It's complex, especially if you want it to last long, you can't buy her new shoes every week, so there needs to be a real connection,

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/12/07 20:35

It is very complex when you get into different psychologies, especially female psychology, but basically I would ask every man to look inward to the realsitic effects of his actions when he is having a sexual relationship with a woman. What you can go to sleep with a pure conscience might be much different than me. However, you have already heard my opinion of sex before marriage, and I believe that it also is the general opinion of born again, fundamentalist Christians. As I said, I would not hate a person for doing it, because I did it myself, but I honestly believe it is destructive, and it ruins a lot of people's lives.
Posted By: testDummy

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/14/07 02:13

Quoting NITRO777...closet sadist?
Quote:

Yet sex is sex, if I see a girl that is very hot looking, I really don't need to have sex with her to know if the sex will be good, sex is definitely good with whatever girl your attracted to.


At a glance, for many, this is a 'safe' generalization, and yes, it is probably necessary to accept the risk of being labeled 'devil's advocate' when attempting to offer a conflicting specification.
Personal definitions of 'sex' may vary. Certain types prefer, and expect to inflict and / or receive 'significant' amounts of pain during 'sex'. Depending on your definition of 'sex', some can easily state, that such variations are not variations of 'sex', ...that such acts should be defined as something else entirely. Also many may state that it is easily obvious after a short period time that certain individuals define 'sex' 'differently'.

Quoting PHeMox...has experience 'dancing' with 'Christians'?
Quote:

I don't know, but I normally get to know my girlfriends first,


Maybe commonsense can claim this one.

Quote:

By the way, you've got to admit you more or less get 'exposed' when having sex,


Under certain circumstances, sex can appear to inflict future misery and even seemingly, significantly shorten your life. (<<No kidding.) Also, often clothing might be removed. (<<No goats.) So yes, I agree.

Quote:

so you do 'lose' something I think.


I agree. Amounts of matter may be moved from one place to another.

Quote:

Married people who see other people do so because of their sexual needs, not because they do not really love someone.


People break 'commitments' for varying reasons. Some break 'commitments' because a different more desirable feeling might be found elsewhere or because they are generally somewhat unhappy where they are. I think some just like the new item smell, ...new book, new car, new mistress...

On a side note, and linked for no particular reason, while slightly amusing, 'NOAH' doesn't 'get me off' as much as I would have liked. I'm looking forward to 'NOAH 2'. Maybe some of the new animal dynamics will 'do it for me'.

(I should lose the unnecessary ... 'quoting additives'.)

I don't expect or desire responses to obvious statements.
I'm going to try to resurrect my 'better judgement'. I'll attempt to stand clear of this thread and similar ones in the future.
Posted By: Blattsalat

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/14/07 05:56

to keep it short:

you can not tell if a joke is funny if you havent heared the end of it. (same with sex and love)
everything else is a lie

cheers
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/14/07 14:27

Quote:

Quoting PHeMox...has experience 'dancing' with 'Christians'?



Lol ...

Quote:


you can not tell if a joke is funny if you havent heared the end of it. (same with sex and love)
everything else is a lie



Good point basically.

Cheers
Posted By: Kinji_2007

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/15/07 02:04

Quote:

oh ok, I understand now, it just sounds weird to me that kinji and lostclimate, yourself and some others here seem to bash all the other Christians


As always I respect you but I do disagree with your reply. I do not bash all other Christians. I simply look at "us" and compare to what the Bible teaches. I find that we do not live up to the standards of holiness. Is that bad to say? To follow Christ is to follow Him. Remember the rich guy that followed the commandments but could not give up the other things he owned? There is simply a reality check for me and you and those who claim to be Christians.

Those people who claim to be Christians that do not follow simple things such as the commandments, prayer daily, fasting, those who are filled with pride, those who believe sin is ok after the Holy Ghost as entered them, those that take pride in tongues and other spiritual gifts yet they do not at all remember the letter from Paul to the Corinthinans. This is the type of Christians that I am talking about. We make the excuse.. "we all sin". We are commanded to go and sin not. I just dont get it. How can we as so called Christians except a life where sin is ok and dubbed as a mistake on a daily basis? I am speaking of you and I so there is no thoughts of me bashing others without first looking into my own heart.

Sorry if I come off rude or as a bashing type. I was raised in a tongue talking church that believed in spiritual gifts.. holiness was the utmost goal. We grew up in long sleeve shirts, long pants, no shorts, no television, no worldly music and so on. Close study of the Bible now shows me that even that may not be enough. Love God? I did. Try to do good. Of course I tried. Growing up in a life such as that.. talking in the unknown tongue, loving God.. it was not enough. A Christian is commanded to live a holy life without the love of the world. Most of us spend more time doing things that the flesh likes.. watching tv, programming, sports, the internet and so on. You think the golden calf was a temptation? Look around and see who bows to what. I dare any Christian here to do the math on a 24 hour period. What do you do during a day? Does God take up most of that time? I am guilty as are you. The difference is that I am searching for Truth not assuming that what I have found is Truth. God Bless you and I hope you find the way. Pray for eye-salve.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/15/07 17:20

I really dont disagree with you much kinji, I too strive to live a holy life, even to the point of selling all and seeking God's face in prayer. However, if you really know God, you know that He doesnt just want this kind of constant 1 on 1 fellowship. It would be wonderful indeed if one could spend all of our time in His presence, however, this is clearly not what God wants except in certain circumstances and during certain times.

Jesus said that all of the law and prophets hung on two:
1)love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength
2)love thy neighbor as thyself

It sounds to me that you are indeed consecrating yourself to God, seperating yourself to do His will. However you must always remember the second commandment.

Paul said if you have not love, then your faith and works are vanity.

As much zeal as you have to do God's will, it is non-effectual without people. The world, and the church are not perfect, they never will be, you must settle this forever or else your expectations towards everyone around you will be unreasonable and much too high. You will always be dissappointed with others and with yourself if you hold to this belief.

Im not asking you to cease doing works, Im just saying that you should lighten up, because people are never going to receive that message.

Quote:

I find that we do not live up to the standards of holiness

If you are not walking in love to your neighbor, and especially to your Christian brothers, then you are far from the standards of His holiness.

However I dont want you to stop praying and studying the Bible, I do it myself, for hours on end, because those things are going to help you tremendously. Everyday you should be ready to surrender all, I firmly believe that we should be ready to drop all of it for the Kingdom, especially since Christ gave His life for us. But I think that you might find that sometimes, as a matter of fact most times, God would say that time spent with people really listening and caring is much more precious than Bible study or other outward observances because when you live your life for others you are truly walking in obedience.

You might already know these things, but when someone talks about obedience being not wearing shorts or watching tv I get some real red flags thrown up. I hope you know what Im saying here, Im not against you or your church, but I might be agaisnt some of your ideas.
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/15/07 19:42

Quote:

I find that we do not live up to the standards of holiness. Is that bad to say?


Kinji?

Let me say something.
There ain't NOBODY living in true holiness, okay?
We only think there are some. lol

The POPE, nor Martin Luther, nor mother Teresa. Nope, nobody is.

The best thing we can do, is to live with a pure heart and try very hard to be holy, but guess what? You can't do it. That is why YOU and I and EVERYONE needs Jesus Christ, who is the sacrifice.

I'm gonna say something and some might be offended. Sorry.

But, we humans are just like the dumb animals!

I mean we all constantly sin just like they do and pay the price for it. Why are WE so stupid man?

I told my cat, 2 weeks ago, to stay around the house. BUT, DID HE STAY? NO! Instead, he sought action around the neighborhood and most likely is dead now! Geez...

My dogs, I constantly tell them DON'T FIGHT EACH OTHER!
But guess what? They still fight each other. WHY? Aggh, you know it's just their nature.

You see, they are evil sinners, just like we are.

I'm tell you guys, HUMANS ARE JUST DUMB CREATURES, just like the animals. Sure, we may be a little smarter than they are, but by Gods standards, it ain't by very much.

The only true holy and good one is God. Everything else is just freakin stupidity. Oh well, that is my opinion.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/15/07 23:58

Quote:

I told my cat, 2 weeks ago, to stay around the house. BUT, DID HE STAY? NO! Instead, he sought action around the neighborhood and most likely is dead now! Geez...

My dogs, I constantly tell them DON'T FIGHT EACH OTHER!
But guess what? They still fight each other. WHY? Aggh, you know it's just their nature.



*deep sigh*
Right, we're all cats 'n dogs man, cats 'n dogs...

Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 01:38

I tell my dogs, "DON'T FIGHT!", but they do it anyways.

God tells us, "DON'T SIN!", but we do it anyways.

Does this not sound similiar?
Perhaps we think we are so smart, but are sooo dumb?
Posted By: JibbSmart

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 11:50

1) Are you saved?
definitely

2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?
john 3:16 goes something like: "for God so loved the world, he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"

3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?
sorta-tricky question -- i do the best that i can but i constantly improve over time, though i never will reach perfection in this life.

um...

not much of a contribution to the conversation, but u asked so i answered

julz
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 12:29

Personally I do not quite see how this links up to a predestined we-will-sin-whether-we-like-it-or-not though and hey if it does, we can simply blame God, after all he's the one that made us in his image, right?

Quote:

Perhaps we think we are so smart, but are sooo dumb?



Some people think they are so smart indeed, but in reality aren't very smart at all, they just have their huge egos, perhaps read some books and quote what they've read as if they had thought of it themselves.

Anyways, I think intelligence is almost irrelevant when it comes to being able to live your life in a good way though. Are 'sinners' always the dumbest persons? No, there's a whole variety of people doing bad things, both smart and dumb,

Quote:

"for God so loved the world, he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"



Small question, in who should we believe? In God or Jesus?

Cheers
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 13:53

News Flash: Jerry Falwell just died. Now all we need is James Dobson and Pat Robertson to die and we are getting somewhere...
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 14:20

Yeah, indeed, I think even Christians have to agree there.

Just like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 17:39

Quote:

News Flash: Jerry Falwell just died. Now all we need is James Dobson and Pat Robertson to die and we are getting somewhere...

I dont agree, Falwell was a good man, the founder of the moral majority and the voice of thousands of Christians. I never once heard him talking about how wonderful it was that someone died like you just did. Why? Oh yeah, he had integrity, he had morals. He built a university. He built superchurches. Even though he had a hard upbringing he accomplished a lot. He had a lot of people who cared about him to because he was their voice.A lot of people will be at his funeral, he had a lot of close friends, he had thousands of people who were grateful for things he did, I wonder how many will be there when you die Matt? I'd really like to know the answer to that question.

Quote:

Yeah, indeed, I think even Christians have to agree there.


Well if your talking about agreeing with Matt's statement then you better think again, because if your saying that we would agree with Matt's statement then you dont know anything about American Christians. Think about it: He was a leader of the moral majority, politically speaking, he represented mainstream American Christian thought. Falwell's ideas were not invented by him, they were the reflection of American Christian thought. So basically when you would slander him, you would slander all of us, but Im sure you dont care about that, because you think that Christians don't count. That would be a mistake.

He was nothing like the guy on that you tube you posted. I don't know where you have come up with such nonsense.
Posted By: EX Citer

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 19:40

1) Are you saved?

What? I don´t understand your question. Saved from what? I would like better if you simply would say what you want to say, instead of talking in riddles...

2) Why are you saved? Do you have a scripture to back up your thought?

A scripture to backup my thought? I better like to trust myself as anyone else.

3) Do you feel like you live according to the Bible to the best of your ability?

I never read the bible, because I wouldn´t understand it. All I know about the bible makes me feel like it´s a world very far away of mine, and very very very different.
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 19:50

Quote:

Are you saved?


I think he means " ARE YOU GOING TO HEAVEN?"
Because, if you're not saved, then no you are not.

Yes, Falwell was a good man.
He was "despised" and ridiculed because he was a good man.

That is what we animals do to good men. We despise, ridicule and kill them down here.
Posted By: EX Citer

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 20:26

Ohhh... Alright! This guy has very much the same thoughts as me about afterlife. He made a good and funny movie about his thoughts

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/72146
Posted By: Robotronic

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:21

Quote:

Oh yeah, he had integrity, he had morals.



Let the man speak for himself:

Quote:


"The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Saviour."
"I think Muhammad was a terrorist."
"I do question the sincerity and non-violent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Mr James Farmer, and others, who are known to have leftwing associations."
"I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehaviour does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status."
"It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening."
On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."
On Desmond Tutu: "I think he's a phoney, period, as far as representing the black people of South Africa."
On Tinky-Winky: "He is purple - the gay-pride colour; and his antenna is shaped like a triangle - the gay-pride symbol."




Farewell Falwell

Quote:


Think about it: He was a leader of the moral majority, politically speaking, he represented mainstream American Christian thought.




It´s a tragedy.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:36

Quote:

He was nothing like the guy on that you tube you posted. I don't know where you have come up with such nonsense.



Just because he wasn't in the healing fraud business doesn't quite clear the man from similarities actually, so it's not total nonsense. It's just difficult to see that they really are more similar than you would think.

As Robotronic indicated, in what that man tried to propagate to thousands if not millions of christians, he literally wished a lot of people to be dead actually, funny that you missed that while watching, but we'll just let his rethorics speak for themselves.

Quote:

On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."



Especially the quotes like these made him look idiotic and showed his real face.

I do agree with Matt, but I never wish people to die or be dead, especially not religious people.

Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:39

I don't disagree with any of those quotes.

The Jews are indeed spiritually blind and muhamaad was a terrorist. That is fact.

Anyone who disagree's is ignorant.

In USA politics, the ACLU are just a bunch of leftist loons.

Desmond Tutu was a phony bishop, but not sure about Tinky Winky? Don't know Tinky, so can't say. lol

Jerry Falwell told the truth and just got critisized by ignorants for it. Just a bunch of animals, but some on the left is MORE animal and dumb than some other of us.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:45

Quote:

Let the man speak for himself:


Right. Big deal. The guy had opinions. None of which has anything to do with morality. What the left thinks is moral, the right sees as immoral. I don't see Falwell condeming anyone to death, or exalting in the death of others. That was what I meant by integrity.

Quote:

It´s a tragedy.

Whats a tragedy? Do you think all US fundamentalist Christians should die also? Are you also happy like Matt that a Christian leader has died? Is this your form of morality?
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:47

Quote:

I don't disagree with any of those quotes.

I dont either.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 22:55

Quote:

As Robotronic indicated, in what that man tried to propagate to thousands if not millions of christians, he literally wished a lot of people to be dead actually, funny that you missed that while watching, but we'll just let his rethorics speak for themselves.


You have no right to assume what he wished death upon anyone. Why? Because you cant read minds. he certainly never said anything of the kind.

As I said, Falwell didn't propagate anything. The Christian beliefs already existed, Falwell only took them out to the media. He did not create US Christian fundamentalism, Jesus did. If your looking for the original source of fundamental Christian propagation you have to trace it to Jesus. And by the way, too late, He was already blamed, falsely tried, and crucified and proved that wishing death and even killing Christians is not the way to stop Christianity. As a matter of fact history would attest that Christian persecution only makes the Christian numbers multiply.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 23:07

Quote:

You have no right to assume what he wished death upon anyone.



I'm not assuming anything and I don't think he was unclear about the opinions he propagated in any of those quotes either. Somehow I think you're defending him, because, like you've said so yourself, you simply do not disagree with his quotes. You've got the right to (dis)agree, but so do we.

Quote:

The Christian beliefs already existed, Falwell only took them out to the media.



Yes, so? That doesn't change anything at all when it comes to the content of this belief. Like all churches, there's a lot he said that you won't find inside the bible actually. I think the quotes posted here already also prove that ..

Quote:

He was already blamed, falsely tried, and crucified and proved that wishing death and even killing Christians is not the way to stop Christianity. As a matter of fact history would attest that Christian persecution only makes the Christian numbers multiply.



I don't want Christians to die, although I would like to see them change their minds on certain subjects. Mostly the things that science has already proven to be wrong, like the age of earth and way more things. (Science doesn't exclude God and according to some doesn't exclude Jesus either.)

I don't think Christian numbers ever multiplied, it's more that when persecuted and hunted people will go underground, if things are more save later on they'll become publicly visible again. This way certain movements have survived throughout time and some might always survive.

(I've visited a church that was situated inside a cave deep underground two weeks ago, quite extraordinary actually and pretty interesting. I can send you some pictures if you like or post them here later this week.)

Cheers
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/16/07 23:51

Quote:

Somehow I think you're defending him, because, like you've said so yourself, you simply do not disagree with his quotes.

No, Im defending him because I thought he was a good guy. I have no idea if tinky-winky was gay And quite frankly I dont care My kids still watched the tele-tubbies, even I watched tele-tubbies with them sometimes.Sure Falwell was extreme, and political, I dont even believe Christians should be political most of the time. But the fact was that he was a voice to thousands of heartland Christian Americans, which are my people, they are where I come from. So a lot of people appreciated the man, even if he was far from perfect.

Quote:

(I've visited a church that was situated inside a cave deep underground two weeks ago, quite extraordinary actually and pretty interesting. I can send you some pictures if you like or post them here later this week.)


You should put them on your website or here or wherever with descriptions they would be interesting enough for everyone to see I would think. I have been meaning to get back to some of my early Christian history studies anyway, this would be good to see.


Quote:

I don't want Christians to die,


I dont know why a nice guy like you get mixed up with agreeing with some foolish statement by Aufderheide, but somehow you managed to get caught. I am sorry if I came across a little to crazy but believe me it was mostly aimed at Matt's ignorant hatemongering; as a rule I know that you are a pacifist in most cases.
Posted By: Robotronic

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 00:33

Quote:


Whats a tragedy? Do you think all US fundamentalist Christians should die also? Are you also happy like Matt that a Christian leader has died? Is this your form of morality?




You seem to be upset about my comment and now you mix things, that I did not say.

For me it is a tragedy, that mainstream Christians in the US are misled by people like him, because apparently he was preaching racism, division and hatred.

The message of Jesus Christ was very different and I can´ t see, that Mr Falwell was guided by the Holy Spirit in any way.

Maybe one should be silent about this out of respect, but every day dozens, sometimess hundreds of innocent people die in needless wars because of such people who preach hatred and ignorance.
I understand, that you defend him, because he´s from your "team".

But for me this is a matter of principle and therefore it is a tragedy.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 01:49

Quote:

because apparently he was preaching racism, division and hatred.


Apparent to who? I see division perhaps, but no hatred and racism. You think Christians are racists? There is nothing in what he said that could be interpreted as racism, either that or you dont know what racism is. I think you are misunderstanding his statements. Nobody ever convicted Falwell of racism, no black leaders indicted him. Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America. There no group of liberals who want to say that he was racist for their own political purposes, show me any sort of organized opinion about Falwell's racism and hatred...

As I said before, if you think that his statements are racist, then obviously you think that thousands of Christians are racists because there are many many Christians which agree with those statements.

If he were a racist there would have been books written about it, testimony spread by someone,proof somewhere but there was nothing of the kind.

The man was not a racist, he simply said that homosexuals shouldnt be given minority status because they werent God-ordained minorities, meaning that they werent born gay. Like a black, hispanic or woman is born that way, in that way they are God-ordained, because you cant help what God made you. I assuming this is your alleged racist statement, however it is a gross misinterpretation of the man's words, and to say that he was racist because of it is slanderous.

You might get away with such statements on an internet forum, but in Washington, in American courts, and in the eyes of most Americans, you cant just twist someone's words around and then hope everyone expects that it will be taken as a racist statement.

Quote:

On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."


This also is not racist, but has universal import, lesbians, pagans, etc, can be of any race, Falwell was condemning groups that have ruined our society, not based upon their God ordained race, but upon the personal choices gthey have made in their lives.

Let me help you understand what racism is, since you cannot seem to understand it. Racism is hatred directed at another based upon something they are from birth, not based upon the choices they make. You are German right? So if someone hates you just because you are German, THAT is racism, THAT is hatred. You cant help it, you were born that way, and people hate you for that reason alone is not fair.

Now I dont think that hate is good for any reason, even if the people have made moral choices, and I dont think Falwell propagated hatred, and while you can speculate and make false assumptions based upon his words, those are only biased speculation. You are morally wrong to make statements and assumptions about other people without understanding their own intentions.

Quote:

that mainstream Christians in the US are misled by people like him,

you dont listen very good do you. I just got finished TWICE saying that he didnt lead Christians, he only represented them. We never needed Falwell to tell us what was right and wrong, Falwell only echoed what we believed. Now either you believe what Im saying is true or your calling me a liar. Falwell propagated not much of anything, he was just a figure head,...a poster boy if you will. He took the blame for fundy Christians in general.
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 02:32

Quote:

Jerry Falwell just died. Now all we need is James Dobson and Pat Robertson to die


It's a rogue comment at best.
Well gee, I hate to break the news to ya, but guess what?

YOU ARE GONNA DIE ALSO! WHAT THEN?


The defintion of ROGUE is:

Quote:

1. a dishonest, knavish person; scoundrel.
2. a playfully mischievous person; scamp: The youngest boys are little rogues.
3. a tramp or vagabond.
4. a rogue elephant or other animal of similar disposition.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rogue

Hey, but nice talking with you all. lol
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 03:14

blah blah blah..

I'm pretty most people with a brain felt a certain jolt of happiness when hearing this news..Falwell was an evil man and the world is better off without him.
Posted By: Robotronic

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 13:26

Quote:


Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America.




I could imagine, that black people and Hispanics would not like to be described as "God-ordained minorities".
Maybe they would like to be regarded not as some form of divine punishment for the white people, but as EQUAL human beings. And as far as I know this is what defined the struggle of Dr. Martin Luther King.

In the end there is no great difference between racism and religious intolerance, because both forms ultimately have similar goals, and lead to death and misery.

For me there is no moral difference if someone attacks other people because of their religion or because of their race. There are people who would say: "Jews are evil", and if you call them racists, they would say: "oh, how can you say this, no, no of course I´m not a racist, I just don´t apreciate their religion."

This is, why for example the Anti-Defamation League - despite being sympathetic to his pro-Zionism attitude - has condemned remarks of Falwell:

Quote:


New York, NY, October 4, 2002 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) strongly condemned Rev. Jerry Falwell’s statement that the Prophet Mohammed “was a terrorist” and called on him to apologize to the followers of Islam.

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:
The Rev. Jerry Falwell has once again demonstrated his intolerance by his outrageous charge about the Prophet Mohammed. He owes an apology to the millions of good people who follow the Muslim faith. As a man of the cloth, he should be working toward bringing faith communities closer together, not driving wedges through them.

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.



wikipedia

Quote:


As I said before, if you think that his statements are racist, then obviously you think that thousands of Christians are racists because there are many many Christians which agree with those statements.




What is a Christian? Is a Christian in these days someone, who just buys into everything, just because someone - who claims to be a Christian - tells it in a megachurch or on television?!
I´m not a preacher, but for me there is not the shadow of a doubt, that the true Christian message should be a message of truth, love and justice.

And if I have to read things like this ...

Quote:


In a radio interview on March 4, 2002, Falwell said of former President Jimmy Carter, "His message of peace and reconciliation under almost all circumstances is simply incompatible with Christian teachings as I interpret them. This 'turn the other cheek' business is all well and good but it's not what Jesus fought and died for. What we need to do is take the battle to the Muslim heathens and do unto them before they do unto us."



wikipedia

... I can only repeat: It is a tragedy, that American Christians follow such divisive and unholy preachers.

Okay, you say: "... he didnt lead Christians. Falwell only echoed what we believed."

I guess you are right here. I think he was a clever guy who did some market research, who found out, that most liberals had said goodbye to Christianity a long time ago. Then he found out, that "This 'turn the other cheek' business" wouldn´t sell very good in a nation, that loves guns and violence. He also realized, that human beings - as Sigmund Freud and human history confirms - just love to hate and kill each other.

Unfortunately that´s not, what serious religion is all about.

The word, religion, is derived from Latin, "religare", meaning "to bind together".

Sure, Mr Falwell has bound white American conservatives by simply telling them, what they liked to hear. But of course he has reinforced such views and there are so many, who run around in the www and repeat his message of hatred.

Unfortunately the truth is sometimes something, that we do not like to hear. There was a reason, why people threw stones at their prophets.
For some people it´s more holy to bash gay´s or muslims, then to make an attempt to understand this:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets.

Some people apparently see Christianity just like another worldly group, like a nation or clan, that has to fight other religions and all those, that are not members of this club. So welcome to the unholy crusaders of the 21st century.
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 15:32

Quote:

Is a Christian in these days someone, who just buys into everything?


Yes, we buy into everything.
Everything that is of TRUTH.

Some others, choose to believe like Neville Chamberlin.

Peace in our time. lol

The ADL sometimes, knows not who the enemy is and is just another political organization.

Mr Falwell was a truth-teller, and that is something that people despise nowadays.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 15:42

Quote:

Yes, we buy into everything.
Everything that is of TRUTH.



You buy into everything that's on TV and is labeled "Christian", it has nothing to do with truth. Take a look at the ridiculous claim about 9/11 and some of his other quotes. That's not truth at all.

Quote:

Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America.



So basically what you're saying is that as long as the person in question is a Christian it doesn't matter if he's a racist or not? Excuuuuuse me, but it seems a lot of Christians missed some history lessons then.

When I take a quick random glance at Iran a do a comparison it's no wonder there is still so much hatred in this world. It's actively being fed by both sides really...

Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 18:30

Quote:

Take a look at the ridiculous claim about 9/11 and some of his other quotes. That's not truth at all.



Quote:

On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."



Hmmmn, well he was saying that God was judging us for their actions. I don't know if that is true or not. If I were God, then I would know.

But, one thing to understand is that right now there is a CULTURE WAR going on over here. Some people are against Christian values over here and some are for them. Some are encouraging christian values for our government and people and some are discouraging these values from happening.

The ACLU, the feminst, the gays, they are all AGAINST biblical values and are trying to change our culture over here. They have organizations of parades, marches and tons of donation money.

Guys like me and Falwell are trying to "REVERSE COURSE" of these actions. He spoke from the pulpit and I make games about God. We, in effect, are very similiar.

Falwell, Robertson and these types are my mentors. They inspire me to make games "for God" and thus try to affect culture as best as possible.

It's a "Culture WAR" man. Who's side is everybody on?
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 18:52

Quote:

They inspire me to make games "for God" and thus try to affect culture as best as possible.



Yes, as I more or less indicated it's pure propaganda. I'm on neither side, because I'm against spreading propaganda like this. In fact, I'm against 'culture wars' for that matter, I guess it's too difficult for some to be neutral instead of part of the in-crowd. If you look at some of the Falwell speeches closely and analyze them, it's also seems to be full of suggestions which in my opinion sometimes comes very close to you know, the usual subliminal crap.

Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 20:03

What propaganda? It's not CRAP, but since you mention it, there are lots of CROW POOP and FARTS raining down on the players in one of my games race levels. LOL HAHA! <eeoowww, it's crow poop>

Maybe you can be neutral, but I CANNOT be.

I used to see and talk to real demons. They tormented me. How can I be neutral? It's not possible to be neutral.

Some people have different experiences. Maybe Falwell had some too?

The ongoing culture war IS spirital. Falwell knew it is true and spiritual and God knows it's true too.

Do you see the islamic culture growing, due to it's continued intimidation of the masses? That IS a spiritual event.
Make no mistake and listen --> THE DEVIL IS AN INTIMIDATOR!
And I know from firsthand experience! I know them and what they love to do!
THEY - INTIMIDATE YOU!!! <They love this as entertainment>

Do you see the christian culture getting smashed so hard now? That IS also a spiritual event.

Everybody needs to do their part to affect culture.
What are you guys doing?

Are you guys making games for God or just being neutral?

No offense, but being neutral is a big fat zero in heaven. It's a big goose-egg up there, because neutral is neutral and helps nobody down here. Neutral means nothing in God's book of life.

Oh well, back to work.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 20:19

Aaah, the good old scare-tactics campaign... you sure do sound intimidating to me btw .. lol

Somehow I can't take the talk to demons thing seriously, although I'm sure you've had those problems.

Neutrality is probably better than choosing to support either side actively, heaven or no heaven, God or no God, I couldn't care less actually since it's irrelevant in this world, off course mostly because I do not think such a place can even exist where-ever it may be,

Quote:

Do you see the christian culture getting smashed so hard now? That IS also a spiritual event.



I guess you believe Armageddon is at hand, right? Come on, it's not a spiritual event at all, it's pure logic in action. People more and more get access to information about things they would otherwise have explained with supernatural causes. Only the very stubborn or caught in their own beliefs will keep holding on to their faith no matter what. It's because those people will get into a mental crisis otherwise. Like you've said ran_man, either believe or it's back to the demons.. no pun intended

Cheers
Posted By: lostclimate

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 21:59

ran man, were in the bible does it say to kill all the ones who are disbelievers? so why is it that you treat other religions like [censored]?, were, as far as the femenist movement, that whole thing is not wrong by the bibles standards at all, the language at the time of the king james called for "man" to be used for the word humanity, just like the 10 commandments says, children respect your parents and you shall have longevity, it also says fathers do not exasperate your children, it is the same way with wives and husbands, it says for wives to respect there husbands but it also says for husbands to be respectful to there wives. The way people like you make it, women should basically be slaves, what seperates you from the people in the muslim culture than?
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 22:03

Quote:

No offense, but being neutral is a big fat zero in heaven. It's a big goose-egg up there, because neutral is neutral and helps nobody down here. Neutral means nothing in God's book of life.


There is also no_such_thing_as_neutral. Its all or nothing for me. Thats who I am.

Quote:

I'm pretty most people with a brain felt a certain jolt of happiness when hearing this news

But most people with a heart cared when they heard the news. And you haven't convinced me that you are so much smarter than me or any other Christian around here anyways.
Posted By: Robotronic

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 22:19

Quote:


Who's side is everybody on?




I like your last post.

My 1st answer is a little worldly puzzle :

On the stock market, there are two groups of people, the "bulls" and the "bears".

The bulls are deeply convinced, that the stock market will rise and buy stocks.
The bears know very well, that the stock market will fall and sell stocks.

But then there´s a 3rd group. But it´s not so easy to describe them.
They try to know as much as possible. About the history of the stock market, about the psychology ...
Sometimes they sell stocks, sometimes they buy.

Which group is most likely to make a lot of money?

My 2nd answer:

I´m on the side of God. But is God also on my side? Can I be sure about this?

Sigmund Freud, who was not a stupid fool like me, was opposed to religion:

Quote:


Freud describes religion as an illusion, wishes that are the "fulfillments of the oldest, strongest, and most urgent wishes of mankind" (Ch. 6 pg. 30). To differentiate between an illusion and an error, he lists scientific beliefs such as "Aristotle's belief that vermin are developed out of dung" as errors, but "the assertion made by certain nationalists that the Indo-Germanic race is the only one capable of civilization" is an illusion, simply because of the wishing involved. Put forth more explicitly, "what is characteristic of illusions is that they are derived from human wishes."



The Future of an Illusion

The problem is: I agree with him. That´s what religion really means for most people, but for me: the opposite.
I found God, when a certain number of more or less complex puzzles were solved, just as much as to give me an original initial idea, that behind all the worldly stuff, there is something like a second spiritual track. The strange thing about this: one can find God by being sceptical, by being ambivalent.
About the truth, the law, the prophets, who´s right, who´s wrong - you need to find the Holy Spirit, but take care and be reasonable, because:

12:31 For this reason I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

That´s from the gospel of Matthew.

In the gospel of John this spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth. And truth means truth, not my truth vs your truth. It means the absolute truth, which is difficult to find.
If you are in doubt: there is only one God and he wants us all to be spiritually united ...
From time to time he sends his prophets.
The last big revelation was maybe in the 19th century. The message of Bahá´ulláh (the founder of the Baha´i) comes very close to what I consider to be absolute (for the moment) and it is just a logical extension of the teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ...
But it´s no problem if we don´t listen to His messengers, that´s normal, people never listened to the true prophets.
There´s nevertheless progress but with these ugly interruptions, that are called "crash" on the stock market and "war" or "revolution" in human history.
We can also learn from mistake. That´s what people usually prefer, because, who would believe a prophet these days.
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 22:50

Quote:

Somehow I can't take the talk to demons thing seriously, although I'm sure you've had those problems.

At first, I assumed I was hallucinating, so I started TESTING them and found that others around me were seeing and hearing the same things, so they were real.

Quote:

Neutrality is probably better than choosing to support either side actively, heaven or no heaven, God or no God, I couldn't care less actually since it's irrelevant in this world,

No, neutral is dangerous, because most people down here are listening to the bad ones right now. They are listening to the GOD OF THIS WORLD.
Quote:

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.



So, don't follow what everyone else is doing and be neutral, because then you are BLIND, and are following another god.

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ran man, were in the bible does it say to kill all the ones who are disbelievers? so why is it that you treat other religions like [censored]?, were, as far as the femenist movement, that whole thing is not wrong by the bibles standards at all


Who says to KILL them? Personally, I tolerate all religions, but the bible does not. If they are going to hell, then we have to tell them, but personally, I hold no bad feelings towards anyone. God does what He wants to, don't blame me. Whatever He does in the afterlife is good.

Btw, the feminist are "feminizing" our culture. We need to get away from that.

Quote:

Freud describes religion as an illusion, wishes that are the "fulfillments of the oldest, strongest, and most urgent wishes of mankind

is an illusion, simply because of the wishing involved.


Hey, Wait a minute!
GOD is not a product of your thoughts or illusions or anybody elses.
God is His own person with ideas and personality.

To base the idea of GOD on a illusion of a human, really demotes God to a very small entity. lol

HE IS THE ALMIGHTY PEOPLE! AND WE MUST FOLLOW HIM!
WOO, HA, HA!

Btw, sorry Kinji and Nitro...
take over brothers. lol
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 23:05

Quote:

Btw, sorry Kinji and Nitro...
take over brothers. lol

Heh heh. No don't be sorry, you are doing a great job! I like what you say! And I agree. Im just not jumping very heavily in because I think they have enough of my opinion to think about for now. Plus Im busy working on a model.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/17/07 23:35

Quote:

There is also no_such_thing_as_neutral.



As a relativist I believe there is, but apparently not in your book so to say, that's okey. In this case I would say 'neutral' is the side that either benefits from both sides or doesn't get 'involved' with either side's view. And yes, that's as contradicting as it sounded.
I'm not sure if I'm still all that neutral by the way, because I'm starting to dislike religion more and more, the more I get to know about it, especially the more popular organized religions.
I think some spiritual aspects of religion in general are good and I like certain Asian things like yoga, but there are definitely some things which I will never believe, simply because they are not or can not be true... once something's integrity is compromised, what real value will be left?
I don't trust what can't be trusted.

Quote:

At first, I assumed I was hallucinating, so I started TESTING them and found that others around me were seeing and hearing the same things, so they were real.;)



Real demons, with teeth and horns?

Cheers
Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/18/07 00:32

Quote:

simply because they are not or can not be true...

Why? If God made the earth, then why can He not do certain things? There are no limits buddy.

Quote:

Real demons, with teeth and horns?


At the end, I did see one of them in their REAL form and face to face. I was scared stiff at that moment, but called to Jesus and that was the end of it. I know what they look like. The Koran is accurate on this matter too.

I have not seen anything since then and that was 1982.

Previously though, I did see them in different forms. I seen them in the form of SHADOWS, A DEAD PERSON, and A WHITE MOVING ROTATING BALL. So, they can be whatever they wanna be actually or whatever their subjects are expecting I figure.

Abominable snowmen, big foot, flying saucers, aliens from mars, dead people, or whatever. It's all true man. But, they need Gods permissions to appear and do stuff and that's not automatic.

They can go INSIDE humans and take over their vocals and make them do stupid stuff, yeah I seen that too.

They'be been here screwing around with us humans for centuries. They are very entertained by our stupidy.
When you get an idea, for example, do you think it really was from YOU? Maybe, but who knows man?

Have you ever seen a dumb animal and get entertained and made fun of it? HA HA HA! Stupid kitty, we might say. yeah, go ahead and laugh.

It's just the same thing. Only we are their subjects. We are the entertainers and the show in the great colliseum of EARTH.

WOO, HA, HA! I think I will dance and make them laugh now. lol

Quote:

certain Asian things like yoga


Oh, but why Yoga?

If there is NO ALMIGHTY in it, then it's bad.
You are just calling on powers that are around and end up getting the bad ones. That IS dangerous indeed.

They are all over. In your homes, offices, all over.
There is no escape. You will follow one or the other. There is no escape from it.
Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/18/07 00:52

Quote:

As a relativist I believe there is, but apparently not in your book so to say, that's okey.

Well in the statement above I was just talking about for me personally there is no such thing as neutral, I just am an all or nothing type of guy.

But for an example you already dont believe in Christianity, that kind of makes you un-neutral on the issue. I know that you admit the possibility of a God if one could be proved, yet Christianity does not need the proof, so therefore you are against Christian belief. Does that make sense?

In other words in your "waiting for evidence" you are already un-neutral with regards to the literal Christian faith because the Christian faith does not wait for evidence. If you cant understand that, I dont know if I personally will be able to get it through to you.

I have an idea for you, and for others who seem a little agnostic or materialistic. Why dont you try to take inventory on what you DO know.

1)You dont know if God exists(though you believe the evidence is against it)
2)You dont know if Christianity is correct(though you do know that you are disliking it)

What DO you know? And by "know", I am talking about what you "know" as an absolute, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

1) You know that you exist.
2) You know that I exist.

OK. Now we are getting somewhere, we have found a common ground to agree upon. What else do we both know?

1)We know that I am a Christian.

What useful knowledge is this? This is useful knowledge because it lets you forget about history, about religion, about Christianity, about Jerry Falwell, about America or about George Bush.

Now it is only me. I believe all of those horrible Christian ideals, yet I dont hate you, I dont want you to go to hell, I dont hate you because you are from the Netherlands, Im not a racist, I dont want to take your oil or your land or your freedom, I dont want to wage war on you.

So what does this exersize do? It humanizes these dynamic political and religious forces around you. It makes them smaller. It makes the problems more real. Why? Because all of this stuff, all of these topics, and all of these debates boil to down to nothing but you and the people you are surrounded by at that moment. Not all the peoples of earth throughout history, but only you and those that are with you at the moment,.. right now.

So thats what you have to ask yourself, if you hate Christianity, you hate me. Dont look at what you hear about the world. You should only look at what YOU KNOW, because everything else...just about everything else is based upon opinion and most opinion has two sides to it, and a lot of lies. A LOT of lies, but the truth only exists in what you know, and what you know as an absolute.

So I wouldnt get frustrated with religion, and I wouldnt hope people die, or wish that religion was gone. All of those forces are beyond our control, we can only affect our little world.

As children Christians are taught to "let their light shine" in a dark world. And it is true for adults also. If Christianity has disillusioned you you must take it up with me, and take it up with the Christians you know and it is our job to represent it correctly. A job which most of us take very seriously.

I am Christianity to you the same way that you represent your beliefs to me. I judge your beliefs based upon you, right now, and that is all I can do because we all are the products of our beliefs.

Quote:

Real demons, with teeth and horns?

Its not any harder to believe than an invisible God.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/18/07 02:26

I don't hate Christianity, I simply dislike organized religion, there's a subtle difference. Anyways, I understand your point since you're part of something I dislike.

Quote:

A LOT of lies, but the truth only exists in what you know, and what you know as an absolute.



I agree, there's an abundance of lies everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV4MV86fmxA&NR=1
and another one. Slightly different, but similar in a way;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knKUT586nQ&mode=related&search=

Don't you think the fact that they use the bible and your Christianity to justify their ways is despicable at least?

Anyways, I don't think there's such a thing as 'absolute', eventhough some/many might argue that's simply my opinion, there are good arguments to assume everything is relative, since knowledge is relative.

Quote:

Its not any harder to believe than an invisible God.



This was the answer I was expecting actually, but off course this is one of the main reasons why I do not believe at all. Aliens , vampires, UFOs are fiction (or natural phenomena), real demons with teeth and horns are fiction too, God is also just fiction. If God would be real and exist it would actually matter to pray to him, his actions or interference in this world would be visible to us and and and ... basically whether or not he exists as far as the current state of the world totally doesn't matter, if he exists he is not active or we can't see he's active.

When it comes to 'stick to what you know';
Something that is invisible, can not be communicated with or otherwise interacted with and has absolutely no visible influence on this world whatsoever simply doesn't exist, and even if it would really exist it would be completely irrelevant.

Really, what's the point of believing in such a thing (invisible, 'does' nothing, might as well be nonexistent). There's no reason to assume he does exist, just wishful thinking, there's also no reason to assume heaven or all those things are real and there's no evidence that supports any of the other religious claims.

Cheers
Posted By: Kinji_2007

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/24/07 01:41

Quote:

HE IS THE ALMIGHTY PEOPLE! AND WE MUST FOLLOW HIM!
WOO, HA, HA!

Btw, sorry Kinji and Nitro...
take over brothers. lol




Sorry for not posting much lately. It seems almost pointless. We have a point to prove and so do they obviously. Ours is based on faith and certain facts. Theirs is based on a lack of faith and assumuptions. What can you possibly say to convince anyone here to believe in God? They have all the resources that you do. They have the Word.

I can imagine how it was when Paul walked the earth. He and others preached and taught a NEW lesson.. a new life. Even Jesus did not tolerate those who rejected Him for long. What was Jesus' message to the scribes as well as others who continued to reject the Truth? The majority of the people here will never come to the Truth. Why should I continue to try if they will not hear it? I have only one thing to say to them, "Read the Word.". They will be in fear on the day of judgment if they fail to take the Word as Truth. My concern now is Christians who think that salvation is free and without demands. We are commanded to live a holy life.. sin free. A life of giving, a life of love. We have commandments to follow even as the NT states. I just dont see many that follow the Word as a whole and it troubles me. I judge me and I find myself far below the standards that Jesus set. I see others and compare their lives to the Word and I feel a sense of regret for them also. I say we should fix the problem within this thing called Christianity and then focus on others. God bless you.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Christian Life, are you saved? - 05/24/07 02:56

Quote:

We have a point to prove and so do they obviously. Ours is based on faith and certain facts.



Lol, "and certain facts", like what facts?

It's funny that you say we are basing things on assumptions,

Quote:

Why? If God made the earth, then why can He not do certain things? There are no limits buddy.



Don't get carried away and mix up your limitless imagination with our limited reality, because that's where it goes wrong sometimes. I do believe anything is possible to some extent, but not to thát extent. There are simply physical laws and other logical problems that make certain aspects of (most) religion(s) ridiculous. (Parting seas, creating the earth in a few days, Jesus with supernatural powers and and and... I can bend a spoon with my mind by the way, but there's a trick involved. Do you have any idea how long it took before Uri Geller got exposed doing the same trick over and over claiming to be a psychic??? That news spread around the globe too.)

Anyways, the quote above is a perfect example of assumptions you people make and the whole bunch of other assumptions you hang onto those kind of believes. After all the definition of God is not a given, instead it's 100% artificial and also 100% impossible to determine from where we are standing now.

Points to prove? Well, yes and no, because I don't really want to force anyone to be convinced, solely out of respect that is.

Quote:

We are commanded to live a holy life.. sin free.



Technically you're not even that far off here, except it's not divine.

Cheers
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