Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion

Posted By: phil3d

Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/20/07 14:07

I just saw the movie at

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

and i wonder if it's true what is said there.

i just refer to the first part of the film not the 911 part after the religion part. the whole movie is not very objectiv so i wonder what you can believe of it
what do you think?

Posted By: Blattsalat

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/21/07 01:23

short resume mabye?!

Posted By: phil3d

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/21/07 07:13

it says that the bible is an astrological book and jesus never existet. they refer that jesus is similar to the agyptan god horus who also was born by a virgin was resurrrectet after 3 days and many other similarities.
Also it says that at december 25 the sun who stands for horus or jesus in that way is in one line with three bright stars which was in the past known as the three kings. the bible says they follow a star in the east which is true the three stars follow the bright star sirius until they stand in this constalation. So if you see Jesus as being the sun it makes all sense december 22-24 december are the days where the sun stands at its lowest point so it "dies" than december 25 it goes up again (resurection) and stands in line with the three kings.
jesus 12 followers are representing the months or star signs of a year. There are many other astrological similarities with the bible which are mentioned in the movie.

Posted By: sPlKe

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/22/07 19:41

christian religion is a patchwork religion. made out of any available stuff back then...

i still wodner why people dont know this? do you have no idea? you can see this stuff everywhere...

go wikipedia...

Posted By: Doug

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/23/07 09:24

I'm not sure if I would trust a movie who's point (AFAIK) is to convince you that 911 was a hoax by the banks so they can track you by implanted RFID tags (or something like that, I couldn't watch it all). But it is true that Christianity borrows a lot from several "pagan" religions.

Posted By: phil3d

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/24/07 08:30

i still wodner why people dont know this? do you have no idea? you can see this stuff everywhere...

go wikipedia...

oh come on wikipedia is no scientific website. when we refer to wikipedia in an exam or something at university we get a F (ungen�gend) for sure. you can fast look up things in wikipedia but since it's written by users it's not really believeable.

Posted By: Doug

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/24/07 23:29

Quote:

oh come on wikipedia is no scientific website. when we refer to wikipedia in an exam or something at university we get a F (ungen�gend) for sure. you can fast look up things in wikipedia but since it's written by users it's not really believeable.

Very good point, and one I think most people miss.

Anybody with access to the internet can put whatever they like up on Wikipedia. The only thing that makes it better than random web gossip, is that it can be reviewed by people.

Wikipedia is great for basic knowledge but, if you really want to find the truth, you'll have to do some digging on your own.

Posted By: Nems

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 01:02

Over some 30 odd years (I'm 50 now) I have read a lot of material which compares many religious, mythics and old wives tales to ask similar questions and each one has been as facinating as the next but the fact is no one can go back there at the moment so no one can say what actually happened.

All that can be stated as holding some validity is what we already know thanks to the works of the scholars who investigated or reported details and yet, speculation is imaginations best friend.

One of thoses stories was that the Crucifiction was a hoax and that the Lord Jesus Christ travelled to Asia with his family at that time (Wife and kids too no doubt) where a picture was painted of him and where he reportedly died.

Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 03:47

another opportunity to bang on the "christians" again.

hooray!

But, why don't they ever get brave and bang on islam? lol

Dumb cowards.

Posted By: exile

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 07:32

That is a good point Ran Man. I always see/hear about Christians getting the short end of the stick. Like when I was in high school. There were these group of Christian kids who would stand in front of the flag outside and pray every morning. Nobody bothered them or was offended. Almost everyone accepted it. Then the principal/administration made them stop doing it threatening them with detention and suspension and such. Nobody was outraged and everyone assumed that they banned ALL religious practices from school "Like it should be". Soon after, there were these groups of Muslim kids who would get on their knees and pray to Allah at like, 1:00pm every day in the corner of the classroom (or whatever room they were in). Nobody said anything or made them stop and when the issue was brought up, the admin replied "It is their constitutional right. We can't make them stop practicing their religion" WTF???? I am in no way bias, I like to see things from both sides of the fence. But I have noticed that Christians do often get the short end of the stick. In my grandmothers neighborhood, a group of Muslims made the local church take down their cross. Their was a cross on top of the building (Like most churches), and they were "Offended" bu the image. But now, Michigan State University is building mosks (spelling) to accommodate Muslim students. I am in no way a prophecy believer, but the Christian prophecy claims that countless religions will try to "destroy" the word of god. The only big Christian countries are the U.S.A and Israel. And we are BOTH on everyone "Hit list". I don't know guys, sometimes I wonder. I think that there are two things that are going on.

1). US citizens pity the Muslim's and try to accomidate their every need with bias. There have been multiple times that I have seen a Muslim (or Middle eastern) man/woman being given things that others don't. It is this pity that is going to weaken us as U.S citizens. I always stop to think, "If we were attacked right now what would I do?" The answer is tough because I don't want to have a genocide, but I don't want to stand and do nothing. it really is a hard question.

2). US citizens are scared of Middle eastern people. That is a fact. Before Sep-11th, we didn't have this problem. But since that tragedy there has been this fear lingering around peoples minds. You can smell the fear when a Middle eastern man walks into the room. It is sad, because we shouldn't generalize and show ignorant racism. But that is just the times we are living in. Some people say the world will end 2012. By the way it looks now, they could be right.

Posted By: A.Russell

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 10:27

Quote:

One of thoses stories was that the Crucifiction was a hoax and that the Lord Jesus Christ travelled to Asia with his family at that time (Wife and kids too no doubt) where a picture was painted of him and where he reportedly died.

Yes, he came to Japan: http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/herai_en.html

Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 14:45

@exile
Good points, there are similar things going on around where I live also

As for this thing about Jesus walking around to Asia and places, I have heard a few different versions of it, some say that he was walking around Asia before he started his ministry, and thats where He got all of his "peace" teachings. Some claim that the crucifixtion was a hoax and he got married and went to Asia afterwards. Some say he was a homosexual, some say that he had relations with Mary Magdalene.

There are far too many different ideas about Jesus, and the things that He did, but so far I havent seen any of these ideas line up with the record given in the first four gospels of the New Testament.

Of course, proponents of such stories do not attempt to line up with the gospels in any way, they are just presenting new ideas I suppose. However I believe the gospels because they are the longest lasting record of His life and deeds, there are no manuscripts which can trace their origins before the gospels in regards to His life, and most of this crap is just the ramblings of revisionist historians with a chip on their shoulder agsinst Christianity.

I dont think anyone places any stock at all in these stories because:

1)True Christians will just discard them as soon as they are presented
2)Non-Christians will always want to believe something contrary to the gospels because...well...they are non_Christians.

So what difference does it make really? Nobody cares. You can make up any story you want about Christ, it doesnt change what the true believers think anyway, otherwise...they wouldnt be...well...true believers.

Once again though, this dichotomy was predicted by the writings of Jesus Himself, who said:

Quote:

Luk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Notice that there isnt any provision made for a third group, perhaps a neutral or a grey area group, He only classified everyone as either with Him or against Him, there is no in between. In regards to Jesus and true-Christianity you are either on the boat, or you missed the boat, either one.

You can make up a thousand stories about Christ, but unless they line up with what He actually taught, you are basically "against Christ" in His own words.

Quote:

Yes, he came to Japan: http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/herai_en.html

It is also fascinating to believe the daVinci code or this Japanese story about Christ traveling and having children and therefore some people like to think they are His decendants, or to find His real grave somewhere or a peice of His cross. But anyone who knows Jesus at all would know that there will never be definitive physical traces of Him found anywhere, it was against His philosophy to given physical signs to people, that also why the ark of the covenant or the holy grail will never be found, it is also the reason why elaborate ornate churches and temples are not impressive to the true-Christian faith. Jesus Himself hated "signs" and "evidences" and repeatedly urged His followers to believe without seeing. The attempts of media to give Him a wife or children are just attempts to humanize Him.

Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 19:12

Quote:

I believe the gospels because they are the longest lasting record of His life and deeds

There are no evident contradictions in the four Gospels, that's true.
However I wonder why no latin writers have ever mentioned Jesus Christ even though Phalestine was a roman domain at the time
Apart from your faith how can you explain this fact ?

Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 19:31

Well I think the Romans thought he was more of a small nuisance and certainly never expected Him to be the founder of the largest religion ever known. The Romans crucified many criminals and probably didnt think much of one more crucifixtion. That would be my opinion, I really dont know. I am not very aware of early AD latin writers, I assume that they did also not write about many events which we would consider important. Josephus the historian wrote about Jesus, I dont know if he was latin.

Quote:

Apart from your faith how can you explain this fact ?

But I accept the testimony of the gospels as eyewitnesses of His life and ministry. There are four different detailed accounts of His life, and I believe them.

The early Christians had no reason to lie, especially since they were executed for their beliefs. nobody allows themselves to be executed for a story they make up.

The writers of the gospels also had no political advantage to create by making up lies about the existance of Jesus. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were not as important as some other early church leaders.

Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 19:48

Quote:

The Romans crucified many criminals and probably didnt think much of one more crucifixtion.

Well ok, but I dont think they were used to people turning water into wine , walking on the water or multiplying fishes and breads
The roman authorities should have been aware of the existence of a supposed Messiah for the jews
No historical document at all ?

Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 20:22

Quote:

The roman authorities should have been aware of the existence of a supposed Messiah for the jews

Oh yes your right, Pilate and Herod were made aware of Jesus and the fact that some called Him the king of the Jews.

Pilate (the Roman official who reluctantly ordered the execution) was certainly not aware of Jesus untill the Jews delivered Him. Pilate was not the least concerned with the "King of the Jews", as a matter of fact he thought it was a big joke, it was Pilate who ordered that the sign "King of the Jews" was placed above His head during His crucifixtion.

That is why Jesus was given a purple robe and a crown of thorns, like a royal robe and royal crown, because Pilate thought it was a big joke. They never thought Jesus was a threat to Roman military might. The Jews would have been squashed very quickly had there been an actual uprising.

Any important Roman official thought nothing Jesus of Nazareth, and that He was only a joke, they certainly did not take Him seriously or see Him as a threat. You should also remember that Jesus was born in a stable and was a carpenter's son, nobody thought He would amount to anything. He made friends with prostitutes, fishermen, tax collectors, lepers, and poor people. Why would anyone care about such a man? His followers were some of the most depraved in all of society. The Bible says that he was not even a particularly good looking guy, who really didnt think much of traditional Jewish religion. He had nothing to measure him high on society's scales.

Quote:

but I dont think they were used to people turning water into wine , walking on the water or multiplying fishes and breads

Herod, another Roman official, had heard about the miracles, and when he had Jesus in custody mocked Him and demanded that He do "a miracle". Jesus of course said nothing to him, and was not going to use the power of God to entertain Herod so Herod laughed at him and kicked him out.

There are miracles occuring today yet they are ignored and laughed at by the masses, historians, and leaders, why would you think that miracles in the time of Christ would be treated any different?

So you see the Roman officials in that small part of the Roman Empire had heard of Jesus, but he was just a joke to them, with a relatively small following. The Romans only cared about stability, and making sure their empire was stable. If the Jews presented no problems, then they were ignored mainly and allowed to do what they wanted.

You also must remember that the Roman Empire was huge, therefore what was happening in Palestine was of no major consequence. Historians of the time were more concerned with wars and Ceasar..much like they are today...

Posted By: Ran Man

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 20:46

Quote:

No historical document at all ?

Click on the link below to read about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

Quote:

Josephus offers information about individuals, groups, customs and geographical places. His writings provide a significant, extra-biblical account of the post-exilic period of the Maccabees, the Hasmonean dynasty and the rise of Herod the Great. He makes references to the Sadducees, Jewish High Priests of the time, Pharisees and Essenes, the Herodian Temple, Quirinius' census and the Zealots, and to such figures as Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Agrippa I and Agrippa II, John the Baptist, James the brother of Jesus, and a disputed reference to Jesus. He is an important source for studies of immediate post-Temple Judaism (and, thus, the context of early Christianity).

It's all there. Josephus is not even a christian, but writes about actual history...

Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/27/07 23:09

Quote:

The Bible says that he was not even a particularly good looking ...

A small detail just a matter of curiosity
Can you quote the Bible about this claim ?

I remember that a Cardinal scolded an artist who rappresented Jesus as a non particulary good looking person
"I dont like it, Jesus was an handsome man " The Cardinal said

Maybe you are right Catholics even at high level do not read the Bible

Posted By: NITRO777

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 04:15

Sure, it was one of the prophecies, Isaiah writes this hundreds of years before Christ appears, and yet accurately predicts the beating Christ would get under the Roman lash. "By His stripes we were healed"

Quote:

For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Posted By: exile

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 06:58

I have found something fascinating. I see all of these documentaries on TV about how the bible is a lie and how Jesus was a fake. Here is the question, Why haven't i seen such documentaries on other religions? I have never heard of "Contradictories of the Koran" or "Was Buddha a lie?". NEVER. But here are all of these people who always want to bag on Christianity and Jesus. But as soon as someone says something bad about their religion, all hell breaks loose.

I think i know the answer. It is because no matter how much of a non believer you are, there is still that fear (no matter how small) that keeps nagging at you every time Christianity comes into play. It annoys people when Christians pray but it doesn't annoy people when a Muslim prays? C'mon people! You can deny it all you want, flame me all you want, even send death PM's to me if you want. But don't deny that there isn't that little voice in your head that says "But what if....?" I even will admit that I have that voice. So what if people say "Religion isn't logical". What in this world is logical? Hell, is life logical? Hell to the no! But you don't see the world getting up in arms because of it.

Besides, my grandpa always said "It's logic that is going to kill us all". And it is true! In 1998, he died because he was given a heart bypass when he REALLY needed a blood transfusion. I know I am going to sound like an after school special saying this, but I think we should believe not what our eyes show us but what our heart tells us. Whew! My rant is over.

Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 07:57

Quote:

Why haven't i seen such documentaries on other religions? I have never heard of "Contradictories of the Koran" or "Was Buddha

I suppose it is natural that western world is more interested in Jesus Christ than in other religion
Apart from that there is a key difference
Mohamed and Buddah never claimed to be Gods
They never made miracles

Posted By: exile

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 08:11

True, but people worship them as gods. They pray to them for miracles. And they all claim to grant a miracle of "Divinity" ie: The Rapture. Or the promise of 100 virgins. Things like these make them, no matter what people say, gods. They never deny or state to NOT pray to them as a god. They usually say to follow only them and by doing so, you will be given something for it.

And it's not just the western world. I see other countries bag on Christianity as well. I visit Japan every year and I see shows like this. Even when my mom went to Spain, she saw shows like these.

Posted By: AlbertoT

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 15:43

Quote:

They never deny or state to NOT pray to them as a god.

Buddah laughed at his followers who thought it was immortal

Posted By: exile

Re: Christian Religion = Agyptian Religion - 07/28/07 15:58

And yet people still pray to him. You see where I am going with this? Even though he even told them, "Look, dude, stop it guys. I am NOT a god" paople still look at him as a god.