The A8 last shot package

I purpose we create a score of small games and release them to Steam in one package. Using a launcher so each project can be standalone. I do not think we should step away from large project development or even release our full small games.Users with current greenlight can include a single playable level of their projects. Users with small games can release a part like a demo. Users withlarge games can also release a part demo or single play through. Other user are welcome to create one off's.

A package like this could help breath on the development fire for the engine. It could help get the media's talking about the engine. It sure can help add publicity to greenlite projects and up and coming projects.

In the end ... It's the last and all we can do for this engine.

Of course I've suggested this before. I believe several years in a roll now.

Take Care --

Not a bad idea, but I would leave out demo's and just put in ~3-10 quality mini games. An advantage would be that you could have the advantages of working in a team without the disadvantages; by letting each teammember be responsible for their own game but between share in all the testing, knowledge, bug checking and maybe even assets etc. I would be interested in such a form.

(atm personally I think I haven't released anything notable yet, but I am working on something more promising that I could show later as portfolio work, not to sound to serious though )

ps: demo's could ofcourse be added a bonus / sneak peak like in some old games (= free marketing for the makers of it).

I think it's a good idea but there's still one thing missing.. games. (and people willing to participate in this project)

Also, improving the image of this engine doesn't automatically make it a better engine. In my opinion
A8 has still a number of flaws and it isn't very attractive to most developers.

Not trying to drag anyone down, though. I believe that you can make some pretty good games with this engine.
I just wish it had better flexibility / customization and frequent updates.

, yeah I think this idea is more interesting for us as a community than for the engine.

btw...
I have a nice mini Comicstyle (bloody funny sidescroller) game demo ready to upload. After the next contest, it can be freely used for such stuff of course.
Resources made by me. Music from Realspawn.

edit:
And 3dgs never dies...its undead guys.

@Kartoffel You didn't bring us down.. You are correct. We cannot help the engine with produces at this point. We can do a nice community package like --Reconnoiter says. Just something to say this is who we are and leave a mark. I could not honestly ask new people to invest time in learn this engine. It's just better they start one of the others.


Oh well K

Take Care --

Some Screens of the Project, its real fun to play:


U can Play Players like Egon, Batman and some others





edit:
Two or three shaders from an old package used, made by Slin, just wanted to mention here.
editend

Not that bad isnt it?
Of course it looks much better in motion ^^

Howdy!

Our first partaker of the Humble Acknex Bundle.

I would post Videos ( looks much cooler in motion ) and stuff right now, even a playable demo. But please understand me people, i want to join the next contest with this little project. A lot of love went into it until now ( already too much for a "side-project" of mine ).

And yes, a first little funny "game" for the bundle then.

edit:
Some project gameplay details:
U kill enemys ( with a lot of blood and stuff ). U get money / karmapoints. With money u can buy new weapons in the gunshop. More karma means cheaper prices in the shop. U can save your game in a savehouses ( shown in the shot above ). And u try to reach the level goal. Sometimes, u help people to walk somewhere etc.

Got a complete gameplay finished FPS here, just lacking some maps, already got a launcher and website ready, hope I get to release it soon.
I was about to stop working on it but I wanna upload atleast one working version people can play (even though the code is even more messy then my selfmade OS lol)

Great man!

Same here with messed up code. Startet coding it some time ago ( but already in a8 ). And cause i worked on it from time to time it stayed messy ( from a todays point of view )

My project is nearly 4 years old, what a shame I didnt work even 50% of the time on it.
It uses a bit too much cpu though, I wish I'd knew why.. its like a combination of c_moves and some other stuff

Also I should have coded it in c++ rather then lite-c, without classes big projects usually become a mess xD

i found out ent_animate often causes such performance problems. But this is a bit too off topic to talk about in here. ^^

Right ^^ ...iam lazy as hell too ^^

@Ch40zzC0d3r, sounds good as long as its playable and feels finished (indie standards ).

I have a (half-finished) 3d tower defense game where you can place soldiers instead of towers that can move around a bit and you can control 1 at a time in 3rd person mode. And rank them up, equip them a bit etc. The maps are semi-random generated and possible the waves too. I am thinking of a trail of e.g. 10-20 of such random maps that can be replayed (maybe a simple xp system with a few global upgrades like you see in some tower defense game). The enemies are currently some dummy tanks, dont have the models currently for them.
Anyway, what do you guys think of that?

Hey I would love to participate!

The video is (already) 4 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2kUdu4d_k
I changed alot of stuff, but I would say gameplay feels like a good quality game (except for lag on bad pcs)

Nice!
Except of the blending to ragdoll it looks pretty solid. I remember the video btw ^^

edit:
Those two people giving thumbs down dont know what making games means.

Haha xD
Well after I wrote my exams I will make a thread on how to fix lag issues with execution of the scripts and then I may feel encouraged to work on the new map so I can release it
I wont include my anticheat, it detected kinda too much stuff which was just the antivirus hooking some functions and the like xD

I really hope acknex will get a bigger update which finally fixes some stuff regarding speed and maximum allocatable RAM for big maps and models.

Yeah Antivirusmakers those days are very lazy. Example: UPX header found = 99% must be a virus. Comon...and then they call it "Perfect Heur Detection". aha.
edit:
Maybe somebody should tell em, that those runtime "cryption" tricks are out for years now

Great!

I think all the material is great.

I would think what can "we do as group to support each part, while keeping each person their own driver"? Of the simple things I can think, is having comm users rewrite in optimizations for the pro version, and then asking those with the pro version to be willing to do a pro build. This would give everyone access to simple needed things like the file packer, bone shader and particle instancing, auto LOD- if needed. And for those that would benefit the BPS level builder. This simple step lets all creators make their own project and over come the limits of versions. (Of course this is a suggestion for this package only and this group of known and friendly users).

So what do you think? And are there pro users' willing to do the builds and compiles?

I don't think of all my start and stops I have anything that can be placed in the package.

I know we all would love more access to art content creation and level talent. I can offer my attempts but I'm not train in this. I can also try fishing in from the autodesk communities or the 3D schools.

In the end it's not a idea of what we can create as a team, but what do we have we can touch, and get ready for a pack. Also this community and you each know what you'd like to do, I'm not directing here. I'm just offering ideas and asking what can I do?

Take Care --

Well I have been meaning to buy Pro for some time now. If I do get it I would love to help out however I could. We would need to write up some form of contractual agreement that whoever builds the game has no rights to use any of the provided content outside of the intended purpose.

^--- Yeah yes I forgot about this issue... Hummm Contracts would only work with-in regions. I.e. USA build for USA, Germany for Germany , ect.. otherwise the process becomes very difficult and expensive to set-up and enforce. In the USA a simple 2 party agree is ease enough, and enforcing it is not overly hard or expensive. However, if I(USA) had to set up and try to court enforce and agreement in Germany it would be to difficult and expensive.

It's a good topic for this main thread and we'll have to figure it out.

I have pro license and would be able to do most of those things Malice (havent tried everything yet so you could be I need a tip here and there for the more advanced things). And auto lod for each model could take alot of work if there are many models I think.

, thanks!

edit: for the contracts, wouldn't it work if atleast 1 Europe has a pro license (e.g. me) and 1 in North-America has 1? Or are there any users here who live in other continents and want to participate?

I also have Pro and can provide one minigame (local splitscreen/maybe also online multiplayer)

By my count that's 5 people with projects willing to join the bundle. Knowing that the option to include a part/demo/or trail of any project, I wonder if more will join.

There are some basic thing to figure out here. like
Sales goal - Are we releasing for money,attention or glory. Do we aim to sell the bundle, use it to call attention to acknex or as stated before for personal community recognition - leave our mark?

Time line - How long do we want to give the project from start till release? Having a deadline can help, and hamper. Giving time for people to find there projects, do added or touch-up work, while not bogging down with any one person. Providing time so people do not have to but full attention on this one goal or feel overly pressured to work on this.

Organization structure - We will need to devise a solo organization type to umbrella it all with-in. For Steam release or other's we will need to create a distribution entity(legal/corporate/organization) that can act, represent and make decisions on behalf of the bundle and it's developers. - I can begin exploring and posting organization architectures that will work for this goal.

Developer rights - As stated above and by me from the beginning, we want each creator to fully own and hold all rights to their work. Very much like the Humble Bundle example above, where the games are bundled and each development member has fully and solo proprietorship of their work. Outside of the build issues above - I do not think this will be that complex, as the package/bundle entity is only excepting final builds and grouping them for release in a unified launching package. With the entity holding no owner ship and only distributions rights. So I believe from the USA to EU a simple legal statement to this effect is 100% working solution.

Build issues and rights - Umm this my take some thinking and time. A EU/USA solution may work but it's very hard for me to learn and cover the ins and out of the EU law system. This may be better left to the developer and their chosen 'build agent' .

Please post more that needs to be addressed.

Thank you all for participating and the inclusion of games and your time and resources.

EDIT- Can the members please post there engine versions and if there are Comm users that believe they need access to pro level feature, could they please indicate so. As I try to figure out the 'build rights' issues and if this is even needed.

Also I'm available by PM for those that wish to use the service.

EDIT2 - I'm available for QaD modeling and texture work for anyone needing placeholder art or starting point art. And Yes, I am not good at either.

, glory and attention won't work I think. To many games for that. I think it would mostly some money and experience. And ofcourse fun along the way (when not debugging that is ).

, having a deadline is crucial I think. It may sound to serious, but otherwise it will just be delayed to often. Couple of months (6 months?) perhaps to mostly finish your project? Ofcourse after we are sure how the contract and organisation will be done ofcourse. (taking into account some reserve incase bugs etc. popup)

, I personally think that it isn't a good plan to add all kinds of demo's etc. to it, atleast to me it makes a bit sound like a cheap/lame pack. I know its cliche but I think it does make sense here; less is more. No unnecessary stuff that no one will be playing anyway. It also will become messy when trying to figure out how to divide profits (in contrary to each just having 1 main project or a clear supporting role to other projects).

edit: also maybe a bit to early to bring up but also important to prevent misunderstandings; what kind of price are we thinking of to sell the package, with e.g. 5 (mini or semi-mini)games?

Perhaps a theme based package? Like how they do the "Retro bundle", or a "Puzzle bundle". Some sort of unifying theme or genre maybe?

This is of course for the you all to decide, however at least one current project could not be sold as it's deep in copy right issues.


Yes this is my point as well. And 6 months seems a good window. But again it is y'alls choice.

Woo yes early. I wouldn't price it to high or get dreams of gold. And again for the group to decide. I'd personally table this for a big discussion at around the 3 month window.


If the dev's want to pump out a fresh set of games or do the mods to fit a theme I don't think it would be a bad idea at all. I'd hope it's a group choice and doesn't overwork one member in favor of making things easier for a member that's almost already to go in the theme space.

, I dont understand, what project?

, I understand its early. But there will be a moment (happens to almost all game dev groups on the internet) where one or more will lose interest and motivation. Its not about dreams of gold, its about that you need some form to keep people motivated. Unless people have already (almost-)finished projects ofcourse that they wouldn't sell anywise. Besides, I am not going put effort into something for 3 months when we have no idea what to expect of it.

, it would be good to have a theme. I think genre would be difficult (we know have ~4 different genres I believe), but maybe a unifying theme indeed (same world background? or same enemies? or interface?).

Honestly why not just make this the Official 3DGS game jam? Six months, one unifying theme, one community driven team. Idunno, maybe a bit too ambitious but I would personally love the challenge and to be able to work with you guys. Maybe even make it the next contest? Just throwing around ideas.

, why not both? The game jam is great for new games/ideas, a pack is great for touching up semi-finished games. I mean why not, what is stopping us? Unity's CEO?

@Reconnoiter

rayp's entry on page one of the thread hold way to many copyright characters. To see on Steam would could not use this. Or we would get kicked off and have to project shutdown by someone lawyers. On top the lawyer could make a suit to take all the money you earn from the package.

I still don't have a project in this, so it's still the dev's choices. Steam will want 15% off top to sell the package(I'll ask SuperKu for the exact number), our legal entity will need a percent to run - collect and pay out - website if needed - making posting hosting videos -ect, someone has to do this job and while theyt don't need a profit-share they need a work budget capital.
$10 a unit is a smart start target at this point that can be adjusted as we reach the end and see what we have as a whole package to sell.
I do not see any beginners or lazies in this group. So I do not think any of the dev's is going to do a cheap job. Therefore I would recommend 5 creators div the profit 5 ways at 20% each.
Now without a publisher to front money and spend on maintenance and other aspects. We get a package that sort of "as is" in legal terms. The person who buys it may end up with bugs or there may be a complete failure in one project. If the dev isn't fixing it. The project can and will die on Steam.
We could try and get a Publisher, however you will lose more 'off the top' up to another 60%, make 75% with Steams cut. Leaving 25%/5 people at equal 20% shares. Plus you'll all still need to fund the legal entity to do it's job.

the only thing that can stop or slow y'all is your effort and attitude to the idea's and each other.

@exile

I wouldn't try to make this a contest that way. I would say let people for teams, let them pay an entry fee. Winning team take the pot. Votes for outside the forum. In the end I would not team up in a AUM contest then fight over who gets the one pro key....

-alibaba
-rayp
-and
-Ch40zzC0d3r

Are a bit silent at the moment. But all y'all dev need to talk with each other. Decide if you like the path this is taking and if you still want to work within it. It's a dev's run package and team project, I'm just casting my two-cent as the idea sponsor of the thread.


-- Of course I can jump out of this if y'all wish , because it's a dev's project and y'all make the choices.

I'd just go with what you say. If this is really happening, then I'd just provide my final game and you could do whatever you want with it.

My apology is iam very lazy

Nearly slept from friday till now still beeing tired.
And iam working on a test for a new arcade project, using stuff from my other projects ^^ ...just testing and playing around.

greets

Well I cant sell my stuff because of copyrights.
Not sure if Im allowed to so we better dont do that

The game will be free to play, but Im sure we can include the launcher for it in the bundle somehow. (And maybe some bnus weapons)

Well LOL

That's all 5 dev's positions on the topics. I guess you guy's can discuss at each other and decide the next course.
We've copyright issues, that means project have to drop or be reworked. We have submissions on the original idea,' a non-unified collection wrapped in a single launcher.' We have push for both sales and free release for personal glory. There is a suggestion to start as a new idea and have all the dev's work as a team on a single theme project - 5 bakers, so to say, and no frostiers (Coders without the other parts of the team models/music/art).

- Here is where I metaphorically say "Fight and let the victor prevail."

I've been around long enough to knew how this mud hole goes. So I don't have to succeed at anything. But I'm got to little life left for rutting around and not getting anywhere.

I'll go on.. Y'all just keep on with the 15 years of acknex I've known..


Peace love and all that fun
I am Malice.

I think there needs to be one coordinator in order for this to work. Otherwise this will fail.
Malice is a potential leader I think. I haven't read the whole thread though.

Wall of Text incoming alert

, your right, didn't think of that.

@Rayp, would yournew arcade project be possible? Or your horror project perhaps?

, yeah a coordinator would be good, Malice would be good I think. But concerning leader(s), we should all be active enough to make decisions. If there will be a disagreement on something than we just have a vote and is also helps alot to make some guidelines and agreements beforehand (read deadline we already discussed a bit, what will be or selling price or will it be free?, simple division of roles etc.). Again it may seem to serious but it will help bigtime lateron when we have had agreed to some things beforehand (no confusion, less chance to miss important things, less chance for a possible disagreement).
Also it can all be very short e.g. bullet style and only some key points (wont take long).

@Malice,
, see above, would you agree with a coordinator + support role? (in the case this project really happens)

, I thought it was a bit more than 15%, but hopefully I am wrong. The website and video hosting etc. we can all do. But this is also why making some agreements beforehand like role division is important. (not saying you disagree with that though)

, sounds good, could be 10 a unit is a bit to much but we will work that out.

, I personally think we should do independant, I think a publisher will give alot of hassle and remove freedom to operate. Could be wrong ofcourse. I think Steam Greenlight would be good idea.

, free bonus content could be possible, I dont know if this can be worked out in the contract (I think there will have to be a paragraph that excludes this free content from the price or something like that). Isn't it possible to replace the copyright content with some other assets?

, yes this will be interesting.

Edit: I think the main thing we have to decide on whether this pack will be free or not free (/commercial). Personally for me free is a no go (time reasons), so I will than leave the project but that is ok if others prefer free content.

I guess not, my whole game is "stolen together" because Im just a coder and not a modeler, desginer, whatsoever xD
All weapons and weap sounds were taken from gamebanana and manually converted to 3DGS format. All footsteps sounds were taken from Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. Theres alot of other stuff.
I could PM every guy on gamebanana and ask for permission but that would take ages because I dont remember which exact mdoels, textures, sounds I took.

Iam happy i bought all the content iam using
Thats why i need a resource compiler soon for playable demo. All licenses say must be compiled in projects. I need pro or molebox

I can still unpack all 3DGS resource files so you better write your own protection layer.

No problem, since normal users cant't extract it and it's just technically protected.
If someone still cracks it, then he is the one breaking the law. You are just responsible for providing a protection.

Righty right!

, alternative could be trying to buy a all-in pack at e.g. Ateria3d (maybe they still have that sale for ~25 euro's). Though I dont think they have any fps models, but maybe you can get those cheap elsewhere. I bought the Ateria3d pack too, quality isn't superb and some downloads dont work, but it has alot of different things (including sounds and music).

Also please vote if you want the pack to be free, paid or dont care. I will start:
free: 0
paid: 1
dont care: 0

I want my game to be F2P but the pack itself should be a 4.99€ pack or the like
If I dont sell my game I can continue using the models and sounds xD

That's not how copyright laws work at all, in no jurisdiction.

Anyhow, I'd like to chime in and just say that you guys have a noble idea here, but you need to get the management under control. One of you has to manage the whole thing on some scale, and preferable outside of a forum since that doesn't have the right format. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Carry on.

, "drill sergeant!"

So I quess this project bites the dust?

I actually want this project to be realized. But all I can provide is a game. Management is something, someone else has to do.

I will be in holidays in about 2 days, I can help coding if you need something.
We really need some sort of project manager though

Ok let's see what can be done with this idea.

@Ch40zzC0d3r - Can you find us a free or closely free agile project management platform that we all can work with? It has to be simple enough for all users to get up and run quick. I ask because there are many that are open sourced and mod-able and if extension are going to need to made, you with the heavy C++ background will most likely be asked to write them. So I my logic this would place you the best choice to pick the platform. Management and organization, and communication has to move out of this forum for the most part.

@alibaba once we have a platform to coordinate with can we get some video or looks at what you are submitting. We can then further understand the whole package. I'd say ask all Dev's to do some show and tell on the PM platform, be it pics, video, doc of design summaries , or even play demos.

@Reconnoiter again on a new closed platform - I'd ask that you prepare and share your current view on the on sales, marketing and distribution of the package. A short sheet document should do, before we can begin to up and down the parts of the big picture we needed to start to build a clear view of the big picture.

@rayp again on a close PM platform can we get a view and idea of your new submission for the package?

@exile - Are you still in the mix? Can you review the suggestions to the other dev's and prepare for a bit of show and tell on the closed PM platform?

@ALL Are all member dev's willing and wanting of me with no real experience or justifiable skill to attempt to be the unified organizer of this project? Not knowing everyone real work background I can only assume there is one better equipped for the role. Sure Sid is, however I have no idea if he wants to take on the role. All we can do is try our best, and great news is if it all fails the Dev's can reasonable count the failure to poor management!!

collabtive - An extremelly simple web based project manager with multiple projects support, user rights, milestones, user tasks, communication system and files manager. Easy use.

Yeah now were talking, lets bring some life in this bad boy.

, can do

, fine by me. A sort of organizer/support role would be a good addition.

@txesmi - Awesome thank you!

Unless @Ch40zzC0d3r would like to move with another platform then I'll start setting up a group in this one. Either way if another choice is made, we can migrate the project.

Ok cool. Any objectors please let me know.
I'm a damn fool Bull that's got trouble just letting go...So

Breath...Damn it... Breath... Don't you give up on me... Breath damn it FIGHT!

Well lets use collabtive then, I never used any software like that yet anyways.
Lets see how this turns out

-- collabtive brings our first team issue.

It must be hosted on a server. I of course have no server. So if we use this we will need to rent the host. This is the first project cost. As covered before in the 'cost for running the legal entity'(Which we still haven't set up). This would then fallow as my fault in bad management skills. However we need to host this, either with them or elsewhere. It will take a bit of time before I can start to pay their hosting fee, days-to-weeks. but we need now decide how this and other project cost will be divided.

Edit - Perhaps if I had experience I'd have thought about this before hand. So I stumble, because I ran before I walked... It's kind of my way lol

I can ask a friend of mine, he has a server so we might just use his server.
No need to waste money from the beginning

EDIT: We've got a server and working Collabtive thanks to my buddy
Gonna post the IP tomorrow, have to sleep now cya

Well then, aside from any objections to all this,we can pick up again tomorrow.

Thanks to Ch40zzC0d3r and friend for the setup.

, great!

I think what still can be annoying thing to figure out is how to setup the international contract and probably some kind of needed organisation for it (to receive steam profits if any and than to distribute to the team members). Perhaps best to make this top-priority to see how this will be possible (in Collabtive ofcourse).

Login is here:
http://94.23.145.66/index.php

I made Malice admin so if you need an account please message him or me.

Ok Up an running and in over my ever loving head... lol

PM for an account name and password (I'm guessing)

I'm only adding the current active members into the PMS group. I know we have some that have taken a step back, to focus on other things.

As for this thread... I'll leave it as a share for what we are learning about our attempt at the "Game Business".

Any other people looking to join the package, please PM me.


<--- (Wipes sweat from head - Deep Breath)

-- Many big thanks to Ch40zzC0d3r and his kind friend!
If we continue this effort of identifying and quickly addressing issues we might keep ahead trouble.

Can someone give me a short summary of what's happening in this thread?

Sure we are trying to organize and put together a package of smaller games wrapped in one launcher with the goal of public release.
Or that's what I'm doing in this thread.

@alibaba - Your over your PM limit, but I sent a message in the group work space that is a clone of the one PM'd to all other members about how this project can and can not work at the moment. Basically about the over complexity and cost of trying to bind the USA and EU and even none regional group elements under a legal and business safe structure.

Hopeful you get a copy.

Got the message and replied

^-- Replied and moving to there for our talking...
<--- Heavy lack of sleeping