Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)?
Posted By: XNASorcerer
Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 06:46
They had a great start, but now... There are lots of complains, there is no update for almost one year, there are lots of bugs, they are not answering on the foruns anymore, and they are even deleting the threads where the users complains about it.
Posted By: Wicht
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 06:57
Yes, you are right. Unfortunately i had the same problems.
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 08:23
Are you talking about advanced features or even the "core" features of any usable game engine , are buggy ?
I mean
- Import of most popular static and animated file formats
- Entities handling ( movement , rotation, animation etc )
- Lughting engine
- Collision engine
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 09:31
Well , at least this demonstrates the good of
open source engines like Ogre3D or Irrlicht,
always improving , (even if they don't have
all tools other 3D engines have and are C++ only with some possibilities in script).
I pass my time modeling, texturing when i have free time.
I don't had time to play with engines for a long time.
so this news , is really bad
I 've checked their site from time to time ,waiting some shader editor, and that's right , no new update , we should inform all BV users.
They could at least have a good spirit and put it in open source ,
if they plan to let the engine down and all users
that have paid for it.
Another possibility , they are creating a game instead and don't have time to make the docs , and plugin problems , do support ,
and only use Lightwave as they started
... but i don't have seen any of one of their supposed game anywhere
selling (we should have seen posts on their forums) ?
The last possibility , they had problems with shaders , that's what they had to bring , nad perhaps it has been too difficult caus the engine is not shader centric ?
AND THEY SHOULD STOP LYING AND INFORM THAT THEY ARE
STOPPING BV SUPPORT !
Posted By: BigDaz
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 15:48
The new version is taking longer than originally forcasted. And that's basically it.
They've confirmed repeatedly that BV is still in full swing and are on the verge of releasing a major update. They asked the community for models etc so as to squash any bugs before release and have advertised for more staff.
The developers feel they've been forced into a position of silence now which is a shame but understandable given the uncivilised nature of the complaints.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 16:58
"there are lots of bugs, they are not answering on the foruns anymore, and they are even deleting the threads where the users complains about it"
So if this is right , i find that a little strong to calm down BV users.
Well only future will tell us , what BV will become ?
(i hope good things caus it has lot lot of potential and already very good tools : world editor , terrain editor etc ... )
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 17:37
I do hope myself...
Well, never used B.V. but I am favourably impressed by its tool as well as by its game architecture
B.V. looks like a real flexible multi purpose and modern game engine
I have also got the impression that some B.V. members are a little bit exagerating about bugs but this might be due to the definity non acceptable attitude of the developers
Read the B.V. chief designer's answers on the forum and you understand what I mean
Apart from emotional consideration
Is it really so buggy
Can you rely at least on the basic functions ?
Importing an animated skinned character and moving it around avoiding obstacles ?
Posted By: XNASorcerer
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 18:16
Quote:
Can you rely at least on the basic functions ?
Importing an animated skinned character and moving it around avoiding obstacles ?
No, there a few bugs with animations of the models and sometimes the players can pass throught geometry. And racing games, just forget about it!!!
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 21:37
Thanks
That's reinforce my opinion about game engine reviews
How many times we have read :
" A new engine , fantastic !!!!!!!! look at the shadow , over there, you see...in the right corner "
I have never read, never, something like
" I have been testing the new engine for 6 monthes, well it is reasonably stable, well documented, user friendly..."
I use Bitz3d and 3DGS
I think I will stick to them for a long time
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 21:45
Quote:
I have never read, never, something like
" I have been testing the new engine for 6 monthes, well it is reasonably stable, well documented, user friendly..."
I have. I know a few teams changed to another tool-set and still developing their games without complaining about their decisions.
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 22:13
You would agree that quit often reviews are focused on bells and whistles rather than concrete stuff
If B.V. and other new engines have disappointed people well these kind of reviews should also be blamed, in my opinion
They push the designers to build a skyscraper without solid foundations
What's the point to implement a " road system ", a nice feature by the way ,if player can pass through geometry ?
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 22:16
Quote:
The new version is taking longer than originally forcasted. And that's basically it.
This kind of reminds me of when there was that long gap between A6 versions (over a year). Lots of people were complaining, Conitec was remaining eerily silent, and I was chiming in every once in a while saying I bet there's a good reason for it (and I recall giving potential examples). Not long ago, Doug posted regarding that delay, and it turns out there was a good reason. Between that old A6 version and the one that eventually came out, we basically got a brand new engine, and it turns out that most users didn't or still don't even realize it. Not only were they overhauling the collision engine for the 2nd time (c_instructions take 2), but they were rewriting (according to Doug) everything or at least a huge amount of it.
I told ya so.
Anyway, for all of the BV users, keep the faith. Unless the developers post that it's dead in the water then keep the faith.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/02/07 23:32
Quote:
Anyway, for all of the BV users, keep the faith. Unless the developers post that it's dead in the water then keep the faith.
Very well said.
Without meaning to stab at anyone personally, it also doesn't quite surprise me that the same people complain in such events.
I think BV will eventually come out stronger than before, it really has plenty of potential. It just sux for the people using it at the moment who can't even use the most basic of features because of some bugs, if this is the case. I really understand your frustrations, one of the reasons why I stopped using certain engines in the past.
But as long as the developers don't throw it down the garbage can (which would be stupid to do btw) I don't see that engine disappear really quick,
Cheers
Posted By: hankenb01
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/03/07 00:18
I like BV and am positive Gamecore will be great (just as A7 will be). Some disgruntled users just try to ruin it for everyone else. Misery loves company.
Posted By: D3D
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/03/07 01:21
Well i'm glad I didn't waste my money on the silver license. Maybe in 2009 it's finshed with documentation and better atitude from the developers!?
Posted By: nuclear_winter
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/03/07 09:28
a quote from Katsumi Yokota / art director & lead artist (United Game Artists UGA)
Quote:
Rejection never moves anything forward. Endless approval is what moves things forward. Approving is far more harder than denying something. It was an endless year and a half of getting lost and believing that we will find the correct road again and again.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/03/07 16:18
Very true, by the way you should have quoted what he said before that too.
I was able to reconfirm to myself that it is always a real hard job to create something for someone. It's almost a miracle when anything is actually finished. Creating something that everyone loves is so unbelievably difficult, that if you just look away for a moment, something slips away from you. -Katsumi Yokota
Cheers
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/04/07 19:50
Well , this show that with an easy to program engine (TV3D,Irrlicht,
Ogre3D etc ....)
if you have a team and some dedicaced programmer for tools ,
that's the best way, no wait.
I've seen on ogre 3D forums some pople showing great games or
complete world/terrain editors for their games.
That way , or pay more for a more complete/powerfull engine.
By using Ogre3D i can say it really have next gen power and graphics ,
it' totally free, lot of frequent updates/bug fixes ...
who could dreamm better : ) ?
bad sie : it's only a graphic engine and you need
a team with some programmers.
Another point loy of people forgot a lot :
the 3D art you make is really the more important , even on PS2
that is not Next Gen : play the game God Of War 2
It's so beautifull architecture , effects, animations , models that is as
beautifull as some today next gen games.
It's not a terrain based game , so lot of engines supporting lightmaps
could produce such results.
But not a lot here in the forums have a talentued charcater artist
and level designer with them : that's the WEAK point !
Otherwise, we would see too many good looking games that would make jaleous
onther engines like always
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/05/07 02:32
Quote:
Well , this show that with an easy to program engine (TV3D,Irrlicht,
Ogre3D etc ....)
The problem with these is that they require much more hands-on and experienced programmer knowledge. For example, I couldn't do anything with them, because I lack C++ or C# or whatever knowledge. I understand the concepts and things, but I have no experience programming. However, I can do A LOT with c-script (and Lite-C appears pretty simple at first glance...I have had a lot of non-OOP programming classes in college, so it's not foreign to me), and I don't have to worry about integrating these rendering engines into my own engine. That's the beauty of 3DGS, BV, and other similar engines. You don't need to be a super programmer to create something from the technical side.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/05/07 19:28
Well Orange Brat , that's the difference from some good games here and here and
some bigger , more commercial games made with a real team :
some strong programmers, 3D artists.
But 3D ready to go packages are very helpfull , even big big companyes prefer to buy Unreal Engine 3 that is a proven , next gen one than loosing years on
making a 3D engine.
Fortunatly in indie market and big commercial one, some will always make their own engine :
Crytek for example !
Well ... yes we have 3DGS and some others, for fun and pleasure of game making
Posted By: Doug
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/05/07 20:25
The short answer: for minimum risk, only buy a development environment that will do everything you need right now.
Never buy software on promises and "upcoming features".
Now the real trick is know what features your upcoming game will need (this is where design is key) and what features an development environment actually has.
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/06/07 00:22
Quote:
Well Orange Brat , that's the difference from some good games here and here and
some bigger , more commercial games made with a real team :
some strong programmers, 3D artists.
Maybe, but I don't consider the games or teams that use 3DGS to be "un-real." They're every bit as real and determined as the developers using something like Unreal3.
Posted By: XNASorcerer
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/06/07 01:46
Quote:
The short answer: for minimum risk, only buy a development environment that will do everything you need right now.
Never buy software on promises and "upcoming features".
Now the real trick is know what features your upcoming game will need (this is where design is key) and what features an development environment actually has.
The problem is that when you buy a development environment that are suppost to do something (it already have that features that you need implemented), but then it doesn't do it. Those features doesn't work right!
Posted By: Doug
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/06/07 16:44
Quote:
The problem is that when you buy a development environment that are suppost to do something (it already have that features that you need implemented), but then it doesn't do it. Those features doesn't work right!
Correct. That is where testing is key. If you can't get a key feature you need to work in the demo (or they don't have a demo), then you should probably look else ware.
Posted By: Nems
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/06/07 18:43
Yep, fully agree as that seems to be the only way I can ever find what I'm looking for, Demo, test, reject or keep - no demo, no interest for me.
..and then again..its really good if the business stays in business too (was really dissapointed when GameBench sunk without a trace).
Having said all that, what the heck is wrong with GStudio, the first to offer a complete dev environment (now someone else is claiming the honour of that spiel)and more than capable of delivering what we are after...if only we knew how to leverage it to our own advantage (youknow..scripting, programming scripting,,,did I say scripting again?)
After 5 years of looking, nothing yet has come even close to GStudio for an average user bloke like me.
Posted By: Ghost
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/06/07 19:16
Hi Doug,
I totally agree with you about being able to test things before you buy, accordingly I'm currently wondering how I can test the new skeletal animation features in A7 i.e. is there a demo with these features enabled available?
Posted By: Doug
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/07/07 21:04
No demo that I know of.
Which skeletal animation features are you talking about? Are they not included in the trial edition?
Posted By: Ghost
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/07/07 21:55
I was refering to FBX animation import and playback with 4 bones per vertex weighting. As far as I can see this has become a Pro only feature so would not be in the normal trial version, unless you can tell me otherwise?
Posted By: Doug
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 01:34
You're right. Unless JCL surprises me, that will not be in the trial version.
Posted By: D3D
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 02:32
4 bones per vertex weighting. Has become a Pro only feature? On the beta page it says:
Quote:
V6.60.2b
MEDB can now import FBX files with an arbitrary number of bones per vertex. Multiple bones animation can only be imported, but not edited in MED. The number of bones per vertex is visible under Model Properties. The engine now supports up to 4 bones per vertex. The number of bones per vertex can be restricted by setting the max_bones variable.
The trial version on the download page is 6.40 so you can't try these new features. Don't think it will become a Pro only feature? Hope not!
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 07:49
It is pro only. In the Share-it thread there's a link to the A7 features chart. 4 per vertex is pro only. All others are only 1. Both render to texture and multi-item physics have trickled down to Commercial, but BSP was the sacrifice; however looking back at some posting history, it's going to be a new, cool version of BSP that will eliminate the concave block error (eventually...I interpreted it as eventually eliminating this). ABT is the scene management for the other versions. Pro also gets the nifty sounding Distribution Manager and of course your normal resource packer and more advance MP.
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 07:53
D3D: There is no need for speculations and hopes: Here you can see the A7 features and you can realize that you need Pro to have 4 bones per vertex:
http://www.3dgamestudio.com/order7.htmPS: I still wonder what "Zone/MMORPG" means
Posted By: fastlane69
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 18:53
Quote:
Zone/MMORPG"
session_connect() most likely...
Posted By: D3D
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/09/07 21:58
Thanks Orange/Frank seems i've missed the new chart. And it really @#$%^ to make 4 bones per vertex a A7 Pro feature. Lucky I don't have Extra edition, then I would have no bones at all. I'd started learning to use for animation and now. Just like buy the pro otherwise we give you a handycap. So now I can make a pirate with one leg (so to speak) I mean his legs wont bend so good with the skin right?
In the past i've taken the big step and purchased Gamestudio Pro. Then became very disapointed with among other things the MP functions, for which i've paid the high amount. So i'm not going to take that road again, as I just do this for fun and not with commercial intentions.
Well anyways this topic was about BV alias GameCore. Hope they fix their problems near 2008 and not have these kind of limitations.
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/10/07 01:22
Quote:
So i'm not going to take that road again, as I just do this for fun and not with commercial intentions.
Well, you can always make a commercial game without MP. Games don't HAVE to have MP in them and most successful games don't have MP period. 
Maybe, explore the casual game market. Check out the Indiegamers forums for lots of casual info:
http://forums.indiegamer.com/
http://www.gameproducer.net/
Posted By: Andreas C
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/10/07 08:31
To get back to the original question ...
Yes, I remember BV ... still own a silver license and will wait to see what a.) the interim version 1.5 and b.) the GameCore version will bring before making a definite decision.
I've upgraded to A7Pro partially because of the experiences with BV. It's not a bad engine, just some bugs and bad communication up to this point. But, what A7 offers beyond some updated technical stuff, is a very active community. Whether it's the AUM (thanks George !!!), the 3DGS Magazine, the web resources or the plethora of helpful hints here in the forum, 3DGS offers a lot more than some other engines. You get more forum-posts here in a day than on other forums in three months !!
I also own a Lawmaker license and found out after I purchased the weekend warrior license that I can NOT make a standalone EXE with that version. This means I'd have to take my PC to someone's house if I wanted to show them my creation. Also LM has a rather unusual setup. So that was money burned (in my case! - your mileage may vary).
Torque has a lot of support and is a very capable engine (even though it's a few years old by now
) But a lot of stuff has to be taken into consideration when developing anything for it. Partially cryptic, and generally always client-server oriented. Still a good engine.
So, in conclusion (IMHO): BV has some potential. If you believe gekido's speel about the future of GameCore, then be patient and wait. If not, find another engine that fits your needs now.
Just remember that the grass is always greener on the other side.
And don't discount 3DGS ... it has a lot going for it !
Cheers,
Andreas
Posted By: eyebird
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/10/07 17:36
Yes Andreas C is right.
I own Torque 1.5 to, Realm Crafter and i have tested the bronze license of BV, and its has a lot of future (if they can go throught the bugs), Torque is really weird with models their format is really strange.
I have left Gstudio and back to him a lot of times, and now I see is becoming more powerful if only could have a better rendering results it could beat Torque, BV and C4, even could break into the users of Ogre3d for being an easiest Engine.
Truevision 3d I think will be the rival of GStudio and not Bv.
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/10/07 22:30
Given the simplicity of 3DGS's scripting language, it doesn't really have a rival (and if the stats I know about that someone told me about a few years ago are still true today, this is one of the reasons why 3DGS is the #1 selling game engine by a wide margin). Anything that requires you to know C++, C#, or "regular" language to use the engine is automatically disqualified. I and others like me couldn't use them, but we can use c-script, and Lite-C is close enough to c-script that it's still the simplest of all the scripting languages available in any engine.
Posted By: William
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/11/07 01:30
Once the FBX importer is properly implemented for importing a scene, with the option to flag certain objects as models, many of the restrictions for most users will disappear. I've been using 3dgs since A5 was released, and have been using it with Max(which has an exporter in Max2GS-Max2mdl duo). So the art import restrictions were not as bad I guess, but most of the 3dgs users don't have a modeler which can use these tools to import entire scenes of models into WED. I think that the FBX importer will solve this, eventually. Between this, Lite-C, and the new engine, 3dgs is really taking steps in the right direction.
I sometimes think back and laugh at how archaic A5 was compared to A7. It didn't have many essential features, probably the biggest being no per-poly collision.
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/22/07 20:23
Quote:
this is one of the reasons why 3DGS is the #1 selling game engine by a wide margin.
Are actual sales statistics available or is it just your impression ?
According to DevMaster , Torque should be #1 , Truevision #2 and 3DGS #3
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/22/07 22:45
DevMaster info is based on votes and shouldn't be considered as the truth. It's easy enough to stack the deck. There are no sales stats online. This was a while back, and I didn't get any actual numbers, but I just heard about another companies independent research when they were in the R&D phase of developing a product and figuring out which exporters to include. At the time, 3DGS was #1 in sales and by a lot. I guess this was early on in the A6 cycle. None of this is public, this was a private conversation I had with someone whom I trust.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/23/07 10:49
ahahhahha Engine Wars
Well don't forget 3DGS have been also sleeping for more than two years with nothing , no updates.
And not surprising others engines do the same !
If you plan making something for casual market were there are lot for great games... commercial license is OK (no need for 4 Vertex per bones etc ...)
The Pro is indeed the best to buy but not cheap !
-TV3D 6.5 has been announced from more than 3 years ... always on beta
still not officialy delivered ....
You won't have world,terrain editors ... and they don't have real audio/network management for the moment if i remember well
-BV have been very reacting and very fast for new additions / updates the fisrt months, let's wait for future ... it has some bad bugs with import FBX models
etc ...
- Torque is going fast : Torque constructor ,Torque advanced engine(shaders etc..),Torque XNA all delivered in the last months , solid prooved network,
if your project is MMO , i think is the best to choose, it has already all
network functions.
They can publish , sell the game for you if you have a good one !
The trick is for you to look at actual state of the engines, and pick up
the one that match the best what you need :
- easy to program ?
- workflow tools ?
- 3D format ?
- shaders and light management ?
Don't forget open source engines , that are always updated !!
For example Irrlicht is great and it has an official 3D editor supporting lightmapping for models.
And some commercial successfull games have been made with Ogre 3D :
but you'll need some C++ programmer to your side.
And to lot of people i would say target lot more casual game market with original ideas, don't target Crysis or Far Cry
well to resume , don't be waiting all your life
just pick up the one that match the best what you need , and DO YOUR GAME NOW.
later you'll be able t oswithc to another engine to improve your game why not ?
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/23/07 12:41
This is a good objective posting TheExpert. Thanks for that
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/23/07 16:53
In fact my reply is not perhaps the pure truth and facts , it's some resume to say to all people that are not doing their game and waiting for future things :
Take the 3D engine in its actual state that have the most part of what you need
AND DO YOUR GAME NOW , don't WAIT YOUR LIFE for new features !
Friendly_Frank :
thanks, always a great pleasure to have some great person like you on the boards
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/24/07 18:36
Quote:
Well don't forget 3DGS have been also sleeping for more than two years with nothing , no updates.
Actually, no it wasn't asleep. They were rewriting most of the engine in that 12+ month sleep.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/24/07 21:31
Indeed Orange Brat !
I would say in fact :
Nowadays , any companys knows that sleeping is very bad for business
3D game making packs , must be up to date : it's the job of their
creators.
If they are lazy and don't bring regular upadtes, that's not normal , or they don't work full time on their 3D solution ???
Well like Beyond Virtual and others ,they know very well , they must
bring regular updates or users will look at others ones also very good 3D solutoin !
TV3D engine creators have published some months ago now that 6.5 would be released very soon , juts to calm things , down , but their
people is waiting from more than 3 years the 6.5
And they are still waiting
Garage games : have pushed the XLR8OR
lot of new products, enhancements etc ...
All companies know that they are good money to make and satisfaied users
will alos buy major upgrades if theyr are happy with delays , enhancements !
Well ...
But like i said to all 3D game makers :
Just take NOW the engines that suits best your requirements in it's actual state, and DO YOUR GAME now , DON't WAIT (WASTE
) MORE TIME !
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/24/07 21:58
Quote:
Nowadays , any companys knows that sleeping is very bad for business
3D game making packs , must be up to date
True, and now that that very long sleeping period is over, the 3DGS updates have gone back to their normal interval of one every 2-3 months or so, plus the addition of a new engine version (and antialias is finally a reality ).
Posted By: Ghost
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/24/07 22:08
Have to agree with you Orange brat I think the updates in the last 8 months or so have been regular and impressive. A7 is looking really great!
PS
Can you you tell me where and when did anti-aliasing get added? Seems updates are so fast now I can't keep up with them
Posted By: Frederick_Lim
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/25/07 07:47
I think they are not sleeping, but silence. They spend the time to create ABT and lite-C. Other rivals release new engine and update fast, it seems 3DGS is not moving ahead because of silence making the rivals look more promising.
Now the situation reverse, 3DGS is step ahead, lets see how rivals catch up.
I am one of the BV licensee, but I just upgrade my old A5 Pro recently.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/25/07 18:09
Frederick_Lim :
"They spend the time to create ABT and lite-C"
Perhaps in the last times , but it has been a big perdiod about two / three
years were me and others people we have been wiating and nothing has been done !
It can't take two years working full time to bring little features !
But Garage gaems have also put some two years and more (not 3 perhaps ??)
to release the Torque Advanced shader engine (is it complete today ?) !
TV3D users are also waiting for more than 3 years : i'm one of them
And 6.5 it's still not delivered to public !
The have put a announcement , but the months are passing
And nowadays , like game industry or industry in general :
all people know that silence is bad for business :
rumors , advertisments, little snapshots are very essential
Well to resume , DO YOUR GAME NOW
, take the package that suits the best
you want to do : DON'T WAIT ANYMORE
!
A part from that 3DGS seems to turn really really well ,
the best and fun easy to use indeed ,
i can only say that's great what are doing the Conitec team
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/26/07 19:08
Quote:
Perhaps in the last times , but it has been a big perdiod about two / three
years were me and others people we have been wiating and nothing has been done !
It can't take two years working full time to bring little features !
It was nowhere near two years, and they weren't working on little features. It takes time, and per Doug's post a few weeks ago, they rewrote the entire engine (or almost the entire engine), so most people were not or are still not aware that it's an entirely new engine. This wasn't announced, and we wouldn't even know it today if not for that post. This rewrite includes Lite-C, ABT, getting A7-ready, as well as rewriting the collision (which is the only major feature we knew was being worked on in that 12-14 month time). And, since when are things like a new language and ABT little features?
Anyway, it doesn't matter, now. Everything is back to normal.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/27/07 17:59
"It was nowhere near two years"
ahahahaha
you wasn't here when me and others was crying of no updates ,
after the first shader feature release nothing have been done during two years (and i'm gentle caus it was lot more than two years) ,
nothing , no update.
Were was you
?????
And the update after this long period was only minor things and A7 wasn't real at all , development was far from beginning , A7 is really recent !
I'm one mind open in 3D engines, not fanatic , so i don't forget more than two years of no updates !!
But like i said , nowadays , any company that sleeps won't go very far and will
loose it's customers !
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/28/07 00:02
Quote:
you wasn't here when me and others was crying of no updates ,
after the first shader feature release nothing have been done during two years (and i'm gentle caus it was lot more than two years) ,
nothing , no update.
Were was you ?????
I was right here and have been since late 1999 or early 2000. It wasn't two years. In the past 18 months there have been approximately five public releases ranging from version 6.40 to 6.60 and all the variants in between (6.40.5, 6.50, etc). I can't remember but was the delay between 6.31 and 6.40? If so, then it was about 15 months (give or take). Of course, if you're talking about the time between "official" releases then maybe it was over two years, but I count public betas as official releases and that's what I'm using for my time line.
A7 isn't really recent, either. The first "official" mention of it on the news page was 6 months ago, and Conitec has been talking about it in often vague terms for months before this.
Why are we arguing about the history of Conitec releases?
Posted By: Doug
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/28/07 00:03
Quote:
after the first shader feature release nothing have been done during two years
Nothing may have been released to the public for more than a year, but I can assure you lots got done (and very little sleep was had).
New core engine, Atari, Lite-C, non-BSP collision, etc. This didn't all get done in a couple of weeks after a long nap.
It's okay to criticize us for not releasing more frequent updates. But please don't pretend like you know what is going on on our side.
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/28/07 17:27
Doug :
Don't worry , other 3D engines have also put lot of time , even TV3D
users are waiting for more than 3 years for an official 6.5 version
And some engines have never tooked off like BlitzMax 3D that will never exist
and announced from some years on Blitz3D forums !
Or the cool Cypher engine that is no more maintained by it's author,
and no source / nothing for the users that have been using it from the beginning !
For 3DGS some things like shader editor announced from more one two year easily
etc ... if you would put the date of the announcement of a feature in the forecast page , everyone
would be surprised about the delay to deliver some things !
I recognize, things are going in the good direction and 3DGS future
is looking really bright indeed
(the most easy to use engine compared to others ,
improved workflow/tools and more power now)
Let's wait for A7 ready to buy (hope before christmas
) !!
I'm an engine collector , even if i had flamed 3DGS sometimes for
the just caus , i think i'll upgrade my version indeed
Posted By: broozar
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 06/29/07 11:00
@expert: the cipher source is still available (for those who bought it in time), but this engine is so poorly documented in comparison with 3dgs that it's really hard to get anything to work, besides it requires MSVC++ 6/7 and MAX 6, if you don't have them, you have the double way to go.
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/06/07 21:03
Did anyone try the new GameCore ?
Price has been doubled , have bugs been halved ?
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/06/07 21:30
There is no new update announcement !
OR should we log directly into the download page for licensed people ?
For price , it is one year BV exist ,the price is doubled , i think to be equal to others indie engines prices.
But without new official update , all bugs problems , no screenshots progress ...
we don't know what is going on ??
Are they doing fake communication to make people continue to buy it and let the engine down later ? like cypher engine bad history ?
I think they pass lot more time on their game creation and things and only give some spare time for BV engine.
If i have an update to do , i'll do it for A7
A7 updates are now coming, new products like C-Lite have been done ,
well 3DGS is doing in the good bright direction
I don't like obscure and non communication from BV , it can hide something ?
(like letting the engine down at final
)
BE aware BV people , don't buy / update too quickly (just my advice) !
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/09/07 16:39
With all this engine-hopping of some ppl, don't forget to make games ...
Quote:
BE aware BV people , don't buy / update too quickly (just my advice) !
Why are you saying this? They're probably very very busy with their next update. Otherwise I'd expect an announcement really soon, also it doesn't make sense if they change the price when they're going to let BV rot in a corner. As far as I know they have enough customers to keep going...
Patience is a virtue TheExpert,
Cheers
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/09/07 19:41
Ok you are perhaps right Phemox
I hope !!
Enought customers is not enought , any company goal
is grow the number of customers and keep the old ones buying an update !
I won't buy any updates until problems exporters resolved and shaders
present. anyway it's like 3DGS a fantastic easy engine.
I just hate the complicated matrix functions
why they don't have done like 3DGS simple easy to understand functions like :
pan , tilt , etc ... instead of awfull matrix functions i hate
Let's wait future things , i use 3DGS A6.60 commercial that i own and like a lot for the moment
A7 is not achieved enought , tools shaders etc ... not completed ,
not enought new things done , ready to use for me to update for now.
Posted By: Orange Brat
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/10/07 00:09
Whatever you say.
Posted By: AlbertoT
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/13/07 18:54
I have read somewhere that it would not be the first time that B.V. team let an engine down
I cant remember exactly where,unfortunatly, so please take this information with caution ,I dont want to be unfair with them
However ,in this case, Expert's advice is right
Moreover in my opinion it is definitly not correct to change logo and increase price before fixing the bugs of the existing product
I like B.V. engine structure , matrices included , being extremely flexible but still user friendly but there is something strange with this team , just my feeling
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/13/07 22:01
"I have read somewhere that it would not be the first time that B.V. team let an engine down" Well i've also seen another engine were some people baught and the author
abandonned it !
Let's see in some two months , but without mails about BV team , it can be
bad.
For my part i won't update i think , and i'm among the firsts who have baught this engine, that's sad one year later things going down on
updates,communications
For people supporting/using using this very good engine/toolset
from the beginning that's sad
Like Blitz3D people , if you need Next Gen things move to another engine ,
STOP WAITING !
Posted By: JetpackMonkey
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/13/07 22:42
Quote:
New core engine, ATARI, Lite-C, non-BSP collision, etc. This didn't all get done in a couple of weeks after a long nap.
Arrraaah cmon when can we get the scoop on the deal with Atari ?
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 07/17/07 19:58
I haven't checked BV forums , but any news about what is going on ?
or some Gekido news ?
Posted By: stevenp
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/03/07 04:07
BV's web site appears be gone (at this time, anyways). Have they closed shop?
Posted By: Felixsg
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/03/07 10:18
Quote:
BV's web site appears be gone (at this time, anyways). Have they closed shop?
I check the domain and is registered to 2011 by gekido group
probably him have a hacker attack or a maintenance of the server
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 10:23
Guess who's baaack :
www.beyondvirtual.com/2007/ 
Cheers
Posted By: bstudio
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:02
lol, awefull site design XD
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:10
BStudio: Phemox just made a short comment that is too short to understand it correctly.
He probably wanted to tell you that there is a new alpha version of BV available:
http://www.beyondvirtual.com/smf/index.php/board,8.0.html
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:17
No, I just wanted to let people know the site is back up again and BV still "lives".
Posted By: XNASorcerer
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:26
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:43
Quote:
No, I just wanted to let people know the site is back up again and BV still "lives".
I visited it weekly. It has been online all the time.
The really news is the new alpha version. But I still did not found out what the new features and improvements are.
Posted By: nuclear_winter
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 11:48
i cant open it now... Gekido mentioned something about hosting problems, lets hope its up again soon.
Is there something interesting in the new release?
thanks
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 12:02
ok, I found some release notes after installing the alpha version (happy to see cg shader support and optimizations):
Version: v1.5 - Aug 20, 2007
- new dedicated AI library
- new script classes provide steering & other low-level behaviors
- Cg support
- much optimizations
- terrain / road performance improvements
- fixes for road lighting (road pieces are broken into multiple sub-objects now
instead of being a single mesh)
- many, many other bug fixes
- object depth fading for LOD
Posted By: nuclear_winter
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 12:26
sounds great!
Thanks Frank
Posted By: bstudio
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 12:57
Quote:
BStudio: Phemox just made a short comment that is too short to understand it correctly.
He probably wanted to tell you that there is a new alpha version of BV available:
http://www.beyondvirtual.com/smf/index.php/board,8.0.html
Yeah I knew that, I was just making a comment about their site but maybe that was a bad idea
Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/21/07 14:45
I agree with you bstudio. Their site is not the best one. The design does not fit to the engine and they did choose the worst screenshots for the mainpage.
But nevertheless I am interested how good the new cg-shader implementation works.
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/22/07 23:03
Quote:
I visited it weekly. It has been online all the time.
If you say so, but I haven't been able to visit it in days... it's no wonder people here started to think the engine was dead because of that...
Cheers
Posted By: TheExpert
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/23/07 00:10
When Sorcerer saying S2 engine is lot more easy to use ,
it only shows that some simplifications could be done in it to make it more easy ?
Is still using matrix functions for vector manipulations and maths
caus it's hard , far away from simple high level functions like
Turn_Vec_To_Vec2 or others ...
Well the problem , i think has been a non communication from BV team during
some months , it can be very bad selling point for a 3D engine
Even if you don't have time , you can always post one or two replys on one
week of 7 days
???
Look at Dar Basic Pro , slow engine , i don't like it's language , but some
people have done some cool commercial little titles.
And for communications they are the best
A newsletter , even is a little useless , but it contains good advertisement to sell their additionnal packages to all newbbies
Torque Game Engine is also a king to advertise it's products , even if some are not easy to tune yourself (i really like a lot their XNA solution in bundle
with Game Builder).
Well so good news for BV
Iy has some great features ,like a complete terrain editor incorporated in world editor , a road editor etc ...
Does it have now , the thing that any today engine MUST HAVE , ESSENTIAL :
water shader doing real mirror , or that we can tweak to have a good effect
with less performanace impact like OPtions in AAA games?
Posted By: PHeMoX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 08/23/07 23:16
Quote:
Does it have now , the thing that any today engine MUST HAVE , ESSENTIAL :
water shader doing real mirror , or that we can tweak to have a good effect
with less performanace impact like OPtions in AAA games?
Lol, I couldn't disagree more... a single (water) shader doesn't suddenly make your game on par with AAA game quality.. If there's one thing that more or less does, it's the lighting engine/shader/part of the engine... off course, you'll need high quality art, models, level design and coding as well, but those are terribly obvious,
Cheers
Posted By: AndyGFX
Re: Do you remember Beyond Virtual (BV)? - 09/21/07 19:29
BV 1.5 Alpha release 2 will by next week ...
maybe ... as a lot of time before