Ston3D/ShiVa

Dont know if this is the same engine , but the Shiva engine is pretty old , used to compare itself to the unreal 2 engine , but I never saw any game every made with it , or the engien become popular or even get finished for that matter.

shiva is not the engine in this case, it's only the development environment. the engine is ston3d.

ShiVa 1.5.2 is out!

visit their site to check out the new cool features (animation import, movie to texture, hud to texture, ambient occlusion, seamless dazStudio>ston3d workflow and many more) as well as the enhanced interface. the terrain editor is still in the making

It definately is interesting but I didn't like the interface. Maybe I should go and give it another try...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

the new ambient occlusion feature is really cute:

http://88.191.16.238/StoneTrip/VideoTuto/AmbientOcclusion/AmbientOcclusion.html

StoneTrip releases the version 1.5.3 of ShiVa and removes the limit of 500 resources by archive for the version INDIE.
. ShiVa INDIE becomes ShiVa UNLIMITED, ShiVa PRO becomes ShiVa ADVANCED.
. CRISTMAS SPECIAL OFFER... Buy ShiVa UNLIMITED and get ShiVa ADVANCED!

this means you buy a software for €200 and get a value of €1799 (!!)

KLICK HERE TO GET THE FREE PLE VERSION OR PURCHASE IT FROM THEIR ONLINE STORE.

That's a well thought change as that stupid limit was the point where I immediately stopped considering it seriously...

broozar do you have made some experiences with it yet (I'm especially interested in the LUA scripting language's ease of use)?

Enjoy your meal
Toast

i haven't been too much in touch with the scripting system, as stonetrip provides the most essential frameworks (fps, car/driving, showcase), so for the most basicthings it's just drag'n'drop your models into the framework.
if you always worked with c-like languages, it's a change over, sure. if-then-end, ~=, no ";" are unusual at first. plus, it's completely object-oriented that i'm not used to yet.
of course, you're free to start from the very beginning and build your own framework. try it, the PLE version is free and offers everything except for publishing.

wow, thats pretty awfull that they offer this christmas deal now! really... i can only shout out the f-word very loud!

btw, i guess to be under the first 100 would not have been easy, plus its easy to tell that already 100 have bought it...

no, there are still 86 copies left. counter is on http://developer.stonetrip.com/index.php

makes it even worster to those who purchased it not long ago, right? anyway...

yeah, i paid €99 not long ago

ps: nice word "worster"... sounds like wurst

What payment options do they offer btw? I couldn't find any info on that...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

i purchased mine with paypal. i guess they offer credit card as well. i'm not sure about money orders. but paypal is definitely right.

I'm waiting for a demo !

Some people in GameDev or other forum said the engine was slow and good for small things only.

Let's wait for them to make some demos as good and smooth/fast as some of Unity engine.
For shader i don't see real editor or some normal-specular maps on some
animated characters for example !

Well let's wait some real PC demos on full screen not only small web interactives things !

demo: yes, there is currently no doom3-scale test level for shiva. nor is for acknex *cough*office.wmp*cough*.
performance: test the car dem (bloom, motion blur, normal mapping, physics, collision, all together) and judge yourself. but it's no 700-3000-fps-irrlicht.
shaders: there is no real shader editor, that means you cannot write your own fx files currently. but that's not necessary. shiva offers a material module where you can "assemble" your shader including variations of normal mapping, env mapping, true reflection and real refraction, the possibilites of combining em all seem endless. again, see the car demo for shaders.

I saw, by using the right click on the web 3D, that you can switch to full screen or access to the options panel.
In the car Demo you also have true real time reflects (on the floor) that usually get slower the render process (until twice...).

For me this engine sounds very good and for the price, there is no risk even i'm not totally satisfy. i'm waiting my xmas gift to take it.

http://www.sbdc.fr/jouer/1024.html

a small yet funny, clean and well-designed shiva/ston3D game. if you got the ston3D web player, you can play it directly in your browser. enjoy!
ps: you can switch to fullscreen by right clicking the app and selecting "plein écran".

Now that'S cool!

This gametype also was my favorite (and probably the only really good one) on that Wii Play game collection...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

http://www.sbdc.fr

the final version of "Super Bataille 2 Chars" has been released: addicting single player mode with ranking, multiplayer mode, nice and improved graphics, a tutorial mode to learn the game, and many more. i love it. test it! runs in the ShiVa browser Plugin on your Mac/windowsPC/windowsCE and soon iPhone and Linux.

Shiva 1.6 is finally there! http://www.stonetrip.com/

this is the next major point release, shipping with various improvements, bugfixes, and really cool new tools to play with.

Highlights :

New module : TerrainEditor
New Module : AnimClipEditor
High Level Development : Collection of prebuilt AIModels to create interactive contents without having to write any line of script
Wiimote support

New Editor features :

General : include Compiled HTML Help for module and API.

AIModel Editor : Designer view to customise the way the override of variables is presented in the Attributes Editor.

Ambience Editor : Skybox settings.
Ambience Editor : Monochrome post-render effect.
Ambience Editor : New parameters for static lighting : Sub sampling, Quantize geometry, Sky light.

Attributes Editor : Multi selection pane allows setting of general flags on all the selected objects.
Attributes Editor : New settings for reflections and refractions attributes : background color, fog color and density.
Attributes Editor : Occluder objects have been removed. Now visibility occluder is a flag of shape attribute.
Attributes Editor : Dynamic box shape now automatically fits to object.

Data Explorer : Library system to access to re-usable generic resources from any project.
Data Explorer : AIModel duplication now allowed.
Data Explorer : Projet notes.
Data Explorer : Shortcut to the last 10 files used.
Data Explorer : Folder options allow hiding folders in the tree view.
Data Explorer : Texture alpha is now shown in thumbnails.
Data Explorer : Set default settings for Standalone package.
Data Explorer : Texture export options : choose the runtime format and quality of textures between dds, tga, jpg, pvr. (Advanced only)
Data Explorer : Export report : generate a report of stk content after export. (Advanced only)
Data Explorer : Synchronization tool now works over FTP. (Advanced only)

Game Editor : Cache management for current game.

HUD Editor : List component parameters are now also exposed in the HUDEditor (and not only in script).

Material Editor : Open multiple materials at once.
Material Editor : General pane shows a thumbnail of the current material and allowss drag and drop from it.
Material Editor : Batch processing allows the application of modifications to all the opened materials. (Advanced only)

Scene Explorer : Attribute and controller filters are easier to use.

Scene Viewer : Gravity option for translation tools.
Scene Viewer : Objects tags are now displayed in the viewport.
Scene Viewer : Painting Editor is now a tool of Scene Viewer (no longer a module).

Script Editor : Pressing 'F1' over an API symbol opens the corresponding help.

New Engine features :

HUD : Antialiased text
HUD : Antialiased lines
HUD : Slider component
HUD : RenderMap component
HUD : Components can now have a custom origin (center, left, right, top, bottom, top-left, top-right, bottom-left or bottom-right)

AI : object.addAIModel, object.removeAIModel
AI : hashtable API package
AI : microphone API package
AI : string.reverse
AI : shape.setMeshSubsetMaterialEffectMap0AdditionalUVOffset
AI : shape.setMeshSubsetMaterialEffectMap0AdditionalUVScale
AI : shape.setMeshSubsetMaterialEffectMap1AdditionalUVOffset
AI : shape.setMeshSubsetMaterialEffectMap1AdditionalUVScale
AI : sensor.setBoxCenter, sensor.setBoxSize, sensor.setSphereCenter, sensor.setSphereRadius
AI : scene.getFirstSensorWithID
AI : scene.setPaused
AI : scene.getTerrainHeight, scene.getTerrainNormal, scene.getTerrainStatus
AI : scene.setBloomIntensity, scene.getBloomIntensity, scene.setBloomThreshold, scene.getBloomThreshold, scene.setBloomColoring, scene.getBloomColoring
AI : application.kOptionNetworkStreams, application.kOptionTerrainsQuality, application.kOptionShadersQuality
AI : math.log, math.log10, math.atan, math.atan2
AI : hud.getComponentTag et hud.getFocusedComponent
AI : input.setJoypadVibrationsMagnitude, input.getJoypadType, input.enableJoypadMotionSensors, input.enableJoypadIRMotionSensors
AI : onJoypadMove and onJoypadIRMove user handlers
AI : New functions to list the environment variables.

Physics : Added universal joint
Physics : Added script control on all joint types constraints

3D : specific background color an fog parameters for reflections and refractions
3D : built-in Skybox support
3D : Lightmapper now handles translucence
3D : Vertex color compiler now handles shadows
3D : New monochrome post rendering filter, making it possible to do Sepia or Grayscale effects.

Improvements & Bugfixes :

HUD : Fixed tracking and mouse enter/leave behavior
HUD : Fixed components aspect invariant flag behavior when using inside a container
HUD : Fixed Progress component rendering when using RoundRectangle shape
HUD : Fixed an infinite loop when restarting a game after trying to instanciate a HUDTemplate twice with the same name

AI : Fixed two 'scene.getFirstHitSensor' bugs
AI : Fixed the world space point passed to onMouseMove, onMouseButtonDown and onMouseButtonUp : it is now really on the near clip plane as expected

Sound : Fixed sound.getPlaybackProgress
Sound : Fixed a sound playback issue (some sounds not played)
Sound : Fixed a music playback issue (no more sound after some game restarts)

Cache : Fixed a case of a false error in editor mode when loading a model/resource from a cached pack

Import : Fixed shininess coef import

3D : RenderMaps are now using true Render-To-Texture when supported, resulting in better quality and speed improvements
3D : When rendering HUD into RenderMaps, clear color is now transparent by default instead of black
3D : Front light default lighting in the SceneViewer model mode
3D : Fixed sphere mesh generation
3D : More accurate dynamic shadows clipping
3D : More accurate bounding volumes calculation
3D : Corrected a point light attenuation problem when using per vertex static lighting.
3D : Lot of lightmapper improvements
3D : Fixed box sensor edition gizmo rendering when using scale and offset
3D : Removed a black frame when playing a looping movie
3D : Improved textures loading time

Physics : Lot of physics engine optimizations and improvements

Network : Native cookies/sessions support
Network : Multiple simultaneous download streams support


download your free PLE today! yes, you can try it out and develop your games for free! just if you want to publish your game, you have to get a license.

one of the biggest letdowns for ShiVa has been the bad documentation. well, we got a whole new developer website with tons of tutorials, the online documentation, the forum etc.

this is redefining a new standard in user friendlyness. http://developer.stonetrip.com/

don't forget to cgheck out the tech demos (the upper row are the latest ones). there is even a wiimote demo for all your wii-fans http://www.stonetrip.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=52


i truly recommend to check out this release. it's totally mind blowing.

Interesting - I'll have a look at the new documentation and luckily the PLE doesn't cost that much...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

It's always impressive to see such techdemos as an online game, but I am more impressed by unity3d. I got the feeling that ston3d is slower.

*linux fanboy creeps up* gaah... no linux version...

a linux version is coming along and lingering around the corner they promised to focus on the players for iPhone and linux just after the 1.6 release.

the promised linux player is one of the reasons why i became such a fan of this engine. it's not only really easy to work with, offers pretty visuals, fast rendering, nice physics etc and is truly cross-platform without having to customize your code.

How good is the blender import support? It seems not as straight forward as Unity.

My problem with this wonderfull engine is the script-language. When you are in c/c ++, lite-c then it's so hard to learn LUA for stone 3D. It's a totaly different and language.

Yeah for me move from Java/C/lite-C to C# is more make sense.

The scripting language is just a tool. Nothing bad with that. Many professional games have been scripted with LUA and even more of them are currently in production using LUA.

If you really want to make games then you should look at the complete tool-set. C# (or Lite-C) is useless if you have a bad renderer. And a good renderer might be useless if you cannot import your art. The complete tool-chain makes the game at the end.

Today i had a look on shiva again and it's a amazing tool. I think i will learn LUA. I have one question. Is the free version of shiva full functional ? Which limitation i have with the free version ?

version comparison table:
http://www.stonetrip.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=28

it's fully functional. you just cannot publish your games. and the optimization tools are left out, but these won't be available in the "unlimited" edition, too. you'd have to get "advanced" for that.

Gave it another try recently and sadly the interface was a no-go for me again. How can you seriously like that? I mean why would I want to have a webbrowser in my engine toolkit anyway? Maybe it's just like with Blender that it's good once you know it but whenever I play around with it and want to do something the interface fights me and I sort of hate having lots of little windows of different programme aspects everywhere...

Makes me sad because I really like the features it provides...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

xsi has a web browser in its editor, too. but it's not necessary to display it in shiva, simply remove the editor icon from the left bar. or switch to another worklace, there are 4 preconfigurted workspaces, choose the one you like the best, or simply reconfigure one.
i don't think that the interface fights you, it's a bit too stylish for my taste, all this shiny purple and black, but nothing gets in my way, everything is arranged cleanly and has self explaining icons. it takes a little to get used to, give it a chance. and noone forces you to buy anything to play around with it.

You know - that's pretty much it:
Why can I have only 4 workspaces with like 4 windows each? Why can't they just give me 10 workspaces (from 0 to 9) so I can put like 1 tool each in there or maybe two of em on one side and then switch around this way (or even 12 of em so I have one for every F-key)? It's just that I hate having so much small windows everywhere which also makes you scroll around forever if there are longer lists...

I'm not sure right now but can you really alter the window seperation at all despite those 4 layouts? Would have to try it again but iirc you can't even resize the windows to your need (despite having everything to maximize to fullscreen)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

If that is the reason to not make a game then you will find much bigger barriers in the future.

I remember the time where I created a complete episode of 9 levels for doom (yes the first doom) with an old DOS editor, not much feedback and long compiling times. The tutorial was too short and the interface was totally different.
But nobody did complain.

Today it is so easy to get into 3d. Blender is great and commercial tools are even better.

Shiva looks great to me, well thought and understandable. But I also have some doubts when I try to get into it: Many informations are spread in French and I don't understand French.
But I prefer C4 anyway because of the good scene-management there.

Nevertheless I appreciate the hard work and the good result of the Shiva technology and tools. They have a great material editor, good feedback while working and a lot of options and publishing possibilities - far more than many other tools provide.

I didn't mean this a total barrier but as something I really dislike and as recently Lone Wolf hobbyist accessibility is important to me. So being forced to seperate 19 subtools (well 18 without the webbrowser) on four desktops with only five possible layouts and a lack of the option to resize the windows to my needs is a big disadvantage imo...


Well I don't see your argument here. I've also worked with some old tools and know quite a bit of what you're telling here but what has that to do with a modern piece of software. GUIs aren't something new at all and together with the immense increase on possibilities, features and options a good management for all this is crucial imo...

Maybe Shiva has a nice concept for this and maybe you just have to spend some time to realize this (we'll see about that as I haven't given up yet) but the said points about what I don't like about the interface cripple down the workflow imo and well - make it a bit "ugly" to use (and that's imo a rather big issue as fixing this is no huge task)...


Yeah - although I think there's not much difference to the German/English situation you have for 3DGS. I luckily understand quite some french...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

. you can switch each window to full screen mode
. you can alter the 4 window layout to other presets, ranging from 2 to 6 window layouts

@ frank: the new docs are completely in english. the forum is mostly n french, yes, but the shiva developers always answer in english, too.

c4 follows completely different goals, is much more hardware demanding and less scalable. it does not have the modular OSplayer-gamepack-design, no web player etc, and it never wanted to be like this. c4 tries to offer a low-cost alternative/replacement for engines like idtech4 or ut2.5, including the scene management, shader/lighting system, a "real" programming language (cpp) and thus aims a completely different market. shiva's slogan is "development is a game", and it's really fun with their tool. but shiva is nothing less serious because of that, the results are amazing and achieved in a fracture of the time you'd normally need in most other engines.

I know I shouldnt....

But here another comparison:

Architectural Viz done by Stone Trip:


Architectural Viz done by Roxxor Entertainment:


In the end, you do all the modeling by yourself, you have to make the textures all by yourself...
designing user interfaces, scripting, shading and movement/camera scripts...
every single part of such a project, takes a lot of time and zeal.

Does a better tool set makes the over-all process so much more faster?
I mean, I ask my self, does it worthwhile having all those nice tool-sets?

The part that is really time-consuming, is something that couldnt be drag and dropped.
It is something that no engine nor tool-set can create within some single clicks.

All those tool-sets seems to get better an better, I wonder what happens when they become so much powerful that there is no more need, to have freaks like us.

cheers

What are you trying to say? Of course you can display such geometry with baked textures in almost every engine. You even could quite easily do your own OpenGL model viewer in a few days which is able to display such stuff in exactly the same way.

Though I could imagine that a web player would be very advantageous in the visualization business.

It depends on your project. Creating terrains, placing models or even "painting" them on top of your terrain will save you much time.
A good in-game material editor saves you much time. You will see that, when you place models in a level and when they do not fit to the rest of the environment.

Modelling and texturing is always the same. But creating real living worlds is another story. I experienced a lot what a difference it can make if your world editor reflects real-time changes. Level editing goes much faster.

At the other hand you don't need it that much if you make a 2d casual game. But even then a good editor makes a big difference. Look at the TGB editor of Torque Game Builder. You can paint your collision-zones, place all elements, graphics, preview everything in real-time and test particles. You can test and prototype games much faster.

And I agree with Amy that your architecture visualizations could be even more interesting and easy to watch if they simply run in the browser of the client.

ShiVa offers a better workflow esp. for your case, zwecklos:

. you can import lightmaps from 3ds max directly into shiva see the tutorial
. shiva offers you built-in ambient occlusion calculation for more realistic lighting
. setting up the materials is more than 100% easier than in 3dgs
. you can't yet run a7 with AA and PP effects
. ShiVa offers you a preconfigured framework, all you'd have to do is drop in your objects, assign the materials and press "play"

so all in all, i'd say you could create the same demo with nicer PP effects and running much faster (plus cross platform in a browser of your chioce) in literally a fraction of time. and that is what counts. it is, to quote you, all drag and drop for such a simple thing as architecture viz.

look here what you can read in the FAQ from C4:
"For Nvidia hardware, a GeForceFX 5200 or higher is required. For ATI hardware, a Radeon 9500 or higher is required. For Intel hardware, a GMA X3000 or higher is required."

I consider this a quite old system to run a game but not "hardware demanding".



true, but it supports some game consoles:
http://www.terathon.com/c4engine/faq.php#E2

But at the end I agree with you. We can choose whatever fits best to our needs.

you _know_ that you can't run all the shadow and parallax thingies on a FX 5200. but the truth behind that statement is: it requires at least a shader 2.0 card. i'd say you need a GF 6800 to get a decent quality and speed.

shivas rquirements: Intel Pentium II 450Mhz or AMD K6 450Mhz, 512 megabytes (MB) of RAM, 3D Accelerated Graphics Card with 32MB RAM minimum
of course this is too low too, but i tested it on a GF4MX (DX7) card. the engine automatically reduces the rendering quality, shaders fall back or switch off. it really scales. recommended are a dual core 3800+ and a recent 128mb 3d accelerator. pretty much the same what i'd recommend for c4.

i'd really love to see a comparison between a7 and shiva with zwecklos' architectural scene. if you accept that direct comparison and download the free stonTools (dae exporter) for 3ds max, i'd be willing to drop your exported models into shiva, assign the materials, and make an online demo.

"and sadly the interface was a no-go for me again. How can you seriously like that?"
the shiva UI and lots of windows editors workflow is THE HELL in earth!!!
poor documentation and "SHORT" video tutorials that you can´t learn
anything with, "withouth code examples" and "french language" fórum???

just good features are not enough>.<

A7 with aum and unity is a good example of good step by step complete tutorials that you can learn with!

well with the visualisations, if the shadowmaps and ambient ambient occlusion is realtime then you can also let your customers move around the furniture a bit to see what it looks like differently

that's a random rant that may have been true for 1.5, but it definitely isn't for 1.6.x. the new shiva developer zone is truly amazing, several admins (developers) answer your questions in the forum, over 30 video tutorials should give you more than you need (plus many written ones) and the documentation has colored sysntax, explains every function, its variables etc.
purchasing a license offers you the possibility to write emails to the devs directly and get help.
you have a point with the french forum. the editor is awesome if you ask me, quite intuitive, good looking, comes with customizable design and layout, blabla it's only awkward if you are not used to it, but so is every, and i mean every, 3d application. of course it has a learning curve, did you expect to write your games in one afternoon, including learing the tool, its several modules, a whole scripting language etc? if you don't want to get your hands dirty, go and make love with fpsCreator.

Very interestings comments in this thread.

Since a couple of days I am wondering about a new 3D tool for my project.
I thought to work with Shiva, but my first feeling is ambyvalent and I did not like my first experiment with terrain editor. (sorry Broozar )
So, I have downloaded C4 demo, nice looking features but getting jammed in every demo I have tried is irritating.
Then I have downloaded NeoAxis demo. In this demo, graphism is poor but I do like the technical part !
Today, I will try Irrlicht (because I trust Machinery_Frank )

Then comes the price question:
Shiva is free to try, yes, but at the end it will cost at least 199 € and much more if you need LOD !
C4 is at a good price today, 200$ with unlimited updates , but this offer will end soon.
NeoAxis for 99$, with free upgrades to V 1.0 might be a good bet.
Irrlicht ?

I downloaded this a few days ago and I have to say I am very impressed thus far.

I particularly like the option to publish to a web browser. That alone could be the clincher and save me having to use Adobe Director for some projects.

if you can afford c4, a decent modelling tool and know quite some c++, don't need cross platform or in-browser gaming, i guess c4 is the way to go.

shiva is an allround tool, basicly for smaller games, featuring cross platform and inbrowser gaming, neat shaders and decent speed. the language is easier than what you normally get in 3d game packages. but if you don't like the editor, leave it, you won't get happy.

irrlicht is fast, customizable, open source, crossplatform, constantly in decelopment. first choice for cross platform gaming. requires quite some learning and does not come with a usable shadow system out of the box.

gameCore is constantly delaying and nobody knows when it's finally there and how the docs will be.

i cannot comment on torque or ogre-based engines like neoAxis.

bla bla bla...
with unity docs and step by step complete FPS game in 3 parts tutorial I can learn very quick how to use the engine and finish my FPS game!
with unity docs and step by step complete 3D platform turorial I can learn very quick how to use the engine and finish my 3D platform game!
and with shiva? can I do the same? NO
with shiva docs and POOR and QUICK video tutorials you can´t finish any simple game!

or the developer change this or continue with the ghost fórum.

again,just good features is NOT enough.

Then use Unity if you can get along with it better?

I learned the 3DGS basics necessary workflow with the 3DGS introdutory workshops. = 125.000 happy users!
and this with shiva is impossible! = ghost fórum!

regardless of which engine I use and features
everyone here knows how important are good documentation and code examples/tutorials.

the truth is:
the unity site is the BEST example.

the player for linux is almost ready

Is the editor going to be converted too btw?

Enjoy your meal
Toast

i suppose not.

Ich habe ein Forum zum Thema Hobby Spiele Entwicklung eröffnet. Dort ist auch ein Bereich für das Shiva3D Entwicklungstool dabei. Also wer Interesse an diese Engine hat, jedoch das Offizielle Forum meiden möchte, kann ja mal einen Blick riskieren. Werde Gerne Hilfestellung geben. Natürlich sind auch Benutzer des 3D Gamestudio Herzlich Willkommen ( Ist ja nicht ein Shiva Only Forum).

In English:

Hi there, I have made a Forum for German Shiva Users and all the other German Hobby Game Developers. I hope to get many Visitors there. English speaking users are Welcome too, but be warned, the Main language is German!

Here the Link: Forum

A link would be quite something now...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

Oh man, where is my Head ^^. Thank you. Have corrected this. It´s now in my Sig, too.

Good News everyone! ShiVa 1.6.2 has been released!

New Features:
- Create games for iPhone and iPod Touch
- Export packages for Linux and Mac OS X
- Import two UV sets
- Define roads and custom vegetation

WoW!
And I don't mean World of Warcraft either.

This looks fantastico.

How much time do you need to create a game like this with ShiVa?

hard to say, strongly depends on your skills. for me, i'd say 3 to 4 weeks.

Hey Broozar,

I am currently looking into 3DGS & ShiVa, as I have two projects:

1) a space flight sim for my son.

2) a zoo walkthrough for my local zoo (including video).

Are both possible with ShiVa?

Thanks

Shando

yes they are, and i feel i should answer that question in the shiva forums, i already saw your post there.

@broozar, what is the difference between the unlimited and advanced versions if you know. I wonder, because they dont have an table anywhere to describe the differences, all they say is that it is usuable for small studios.

well, of course there is a comparison table,

http://www.stonetrip.com/shiva/comparison.html

in short: ulimited can do everything that advanced can do, but has not collab tools and auto-optimisation. what they don't say on the page that only Advanced gives you a "real" LOD with 4 steps, Unlimited just "fades". but that's about to change i guess.

hmmm, im really getting into the art on shiva, but i am really annoyed by there scripting system, its very inefficient, (having to make multiple variables just to access and compare variables) the fact taht it seems to be based of basic doesnt help either.if i get used to it, i might start my next project on shiva, but if i cant, ill be sticking with my good ol' 3DGS

well, actually the language is LUA based which is way closer to pascal and c than basic, furthermore, i wouldn't call a language that allows me to script a 3rd person camera in 7 lines "inefficient", but you are right when it comes to things like comparison, you have to temporarily store things in variables (objects/handlers, booleans, numbers...). but you do not necessarily have to create the variables in the GUI editor, "local" is the keyword just like c-script's "var". so "local myvar=5" might be a time saver, however, you wouldn't be able to call that var outside this very script (GUI-made vars can be called by this.myvar() inside the whole AI model). maybe that helps you a little.

thanks for the tips

Posting commercial advertisements is not allowed on this forum. Second warning, please keep the rules, this forum is for discussion only. - Greetings, Spirit.