More News about Torque

I have removed the "News about Torque" thread because according to the forum rules:

"Forum members may discuss any theme on this forum, including competitor products"

but

"Do not post advertisements or solicitation for products or services not related to GameStudio"

Because Frank has placed a huge advertisement poster of Torque at the beginning of the thread, this is clearly over the border between discussing and advertising. So, sorry, thread removed. You may talk, but not advertise. Frank if you have a problem with this and want to discuss this with me, I'm here.

i fully agree to this. i find it extremely brazen if users like wicht and frank only come here to spread negativity and post advertisments for competitor products.

and i'm sure frank or wicht would be tempted to reply to that and justify themselves, as that comment wasn't necessary and would probably come across as provocative.

they're allowed to discuss torque here. i understand spirit's reasons for closing this thread of course, but i advise against discussing other users in a negative manner.

julz

This forum section is also about competitive products. If you don't like this then ask Conitec to change the forum rules for this section of the forums.

Maybe some other users are interested in other tools.

At Dexsoft we work with Gamestudio to finish a game and it might be we even make a second part of our game with Gamestudio. But we also check competition from time to time to be up to date.

There is nothing evil about it. This is business.

Edit: Thanks Julz for being objective!

Frank, it is my job to enforce the forum rules. If you don't like my enforcing you're free to complain to Conitec, and if you don't like the rules Im sure you'll get a warm good-bye when you move to another forum.

@Spirit:
Wouldn't it been enough to just edit Frank's post and delete that "big poster"?
Furthermore you could have PMed Frank and asked him to remove it as it seems to be against the rules.

I'm no mod, in fact I'm quite a nobody here but maybe you should not overhast such decisions.
Just my 2 cents.

edit:
Feel free to punish me with the power of your mod force for going off-topic
(no offense intended)

You're probably right Xarthor, I could have just deleted that image or sent a PM. I have not a lot of experience as Mod yet. But I think removing a thread is a more harsh measurement and is better for preventing Frank from advertising this openly the next time. So harsh acts can contribute to a more peaceful forum.

Well, sorry to Wicht, who notified me, but I agree with Spirit, the huge Torque Logo didn't contribute to the Thread in any way, so it was advertisement. Perhaps, the measure was a little bit too hard, but I leave this to every moderator's sole discretion what measures to take.

A little too hard? Just a little?

Take a look at this comment : "and if you don't like the rules Im sure you'll get a warm good-bye when you move to another forum. "

Is that something a Moderator should say to someone?

But hey, this says at all: "I have not a lot of experience as Mod yet."

And this: "But I think removing a thread is a more harsh measurement and is better for preventing Frank from advertising this openly the next time. So harsh acts can contribute to a more peaceful forum. "

Well, the first job of a Moderator is to moderate! Not to act as a forum "nazy".

And, if everyone starts to think like you Spirit, lets apply you the biggest punishment to prevent you to make a mistake again. Lets remove your rights to be a Moderator!

Come on! Think about it!

@XNASorcerer: I agree with you. It's the reason i notified Spirit.



This is a must !!!

Agree with XNASorcerer aswell

I joint XNASorcerer and the others
In my opinion Frank has been too negative vs 3dgs in several occasions but he is a competent and cooperative member
If conitec does not like critics then remove this "tool" thread but the 3dgs comunity does nor need an other Torque or TrueVision3D or B.V. like forum

no, it´s not but be a bit self reflective and look at your post history. you seem to be obsessed about it and many posts carry the undertone "everyone who still uses gamestudio is an idiot". this forum isn´t a nice place to hang around. so goodbye! no need to ban me if anyone finds this offensive. like many people already said it really is like a kindergarden here.

I 100% agree to Spirit, Checkbutton and Iuselitec. I think it is good that we have this tools forum. Discussing competitor products widens the horizon and even gives Conitec hints in which way to improve their tools. But this also can be bad when this freedom is misused by people who only post for advertising competitors and for triggering quarrels.

No company would tolerate the open posting of competitor advertisements on their own forum. It would be very naive to assume that Frank would get away with this. He can be glad that he was not banned. He would be on most other forums when he really posted a Torque advertisement.

In my opinion the biggest disadvantage of advertising competitors is the lengthy discussions and arguments that are always triggered. They are just huge a waste of time for all participants.

There is no doubt that placing huge advertisements is against the forum rules. But for me there is no doubt either that the reaction of Spirit was to harsh as there are other proper methods of solving such problems.

edit:
Just for the record:
I'm no Torque fanboy or whatsoever, I even don't use Torque, but I like objective conversations about different products as it always offers useful information about upcoming software and workflows.
By "objective conversations" I certainly don't mean the "yes"-"no" engine bashing which is going on lately.

You must have misunderstood that. Just think about it! I am using Gamestudio myself. I will not call myself an idiot.
I just mentioned problems in the map compiler. You can see that I was right if you visit the wed/med forum, where still an active discussion exists about that topic.



Yes. It is. I tell you why: I respected Spirits decision. I don't agree and think he overreacted but I respect it and already made a new TGEA thread without such a poster. I begged there for not starting personal discussions or flame-wars.
But in this thread you contributed just like some other users to make it "kindergarden"!

Maybe Spirit should remove this again. It does not belong to the tools section.

Tobias: If Conitec does not want such engine discussions then they had changed the forum rule. Talk to them if you don't like those rules but don't blame the forum users for it!

I think the removal of the ad with a warning regarding breaking forum rules would have been a better punishment. However what is done is now done and it would be better if we all moved on from this with a few lessons learnt.

I am sure Frank will post within the forum rules and the mods will consider any future actions against rule breakers with a little less haste.

Frank

even though I definitly disagee with such methods (see my previuos post) I must say that , in many occasions, I had the impression that you have a grunge vs Conitec
Some examples ;

B.V. \ Game core

In your opinion the only problem with this engine is the lack of documentation
You simply ignored all the bugs which prevent you from finishing even a simple game

LawMaker

A fantastic engine in your review
At the time documenataion was almost non existent
Not to mention the bugs

C4

You complained that Lite C use pointers , a source of errors ( true )
Afterward you wrote an excellent review about C4
Did you notice how many line of codes you nust write to have a bouncing ball on the screen ?

The true story is tha 3dgs is the msot balaned game engine around

This could be but hey Frank what´s your problem against 3dgs/A7??
A7 Is a really good Engine, and the most of here love it so pls don´t be so hard against A7 / Conitec or what ever.

TGEA is a really good Engine too, and it has many good features.
So you just must think A7 is just on the start^^ of its developing.
Every feature you want could be added if it´s possible so far.

Frank is an artist, so he works more with editors. Editors are more convincing for him(and must be). Lack of editors makes him to see bugs more than he see on the other engines. Good editors(im not saying current GS editors is bad) is a big + for game development olutions.

I agree with AlbrtoT. GS is a really balanced product on scripting side, but its a fact that some other engines has better editors.

This is why most forum users are programmers, artists prefer other engines.

I think that maybe it's the time for revisions and make-up on editors[i still like editors and ok with them but some people not.]

Yes. Alberto and Quadraxas are right. A7 is balanced and easy to learn. I know that and mentioned it a dozen times. And I am excited about easy to use tools and good workflow. So Alberto made a good summary:
- Lawmaker has a very fast level-editor plus fast shadow-mapping
- GC has fantastic support of lots of models and shaders right from the start
- C4 has fantastic real-time material-editor with best shader support of indie engines, good level editor and fast scene management

This is the story from the view of an artist.

But as a programmer (actually I am only a hobby artist but a professional programmer) I know that C4 needs more lines of C++ code for a simple game. Irrlicht and Ogre need only little code to start something. Lawmaker did not have best documentation for programming and was told to be unfinished at that time.

I know and talked about both sides of the story. I am not a fanboy of a single software. I just like to mention good things in the world out there (I am male and like modern technology ). It can open your mind, you can find new solutions or just get ideas.
If somebody takes this personal then he/she took me wrong.

I think this is a good point to end the thread, also due to a request of a forum member.