Esenthel Engine

Posted By: sivan

Esenthel Engine - 05/05/12 14:27

hi

I mentioned this game engine earlier, and did some little tests. looks fine, performance is not superb (better than Neoaxis, worse than Unity), and definitely has some good features (cross platform, unlimited streaming terrain system, free and indie version, simplified C++ and own script too, Recast navmesh pathfinding without crowd):
http://www.esenthel.com/?id=overview

it seems to be developed for mainly MMO games by one person, and you can access source codes - apparently licensing mainly differs only in source code access. there are some online videos, a free example game, and how to start tutorials, but no reference manual (!), only a well commented header browser of engine header files.

not the best, not the worst engine, can be good for some tasks, mainly if you do not want to pay a lot of money for a game engine (indie license is 150usd but only for one product). I think 3DGS Commercial is better.
Posted By: 3run

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/05/12 15:53

Just wanted to post some demo videos:
Esenthel Engine - Spaceship Hangar
Esenthel Engine - Sci-Fi Benchmark
Esenthel Engine - Rendering Quality
Esenthel RPG 2
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/05/12 19:13

I like A8, but you can say A8 is better;
Esenthel have lot of power for outdoor environments, i'm not sure why Unity would do better ?
I don't have seen some big PC mmo or RPG with Unity in the market ? There are some Mmo with Unity like Galactica or others but they are not incredibble !

Juts watch the video to see some good complex 3d Outdoor with town :
Esenthel mmo

I doubt A8 would run same environment, graphic effects, Hud etc ... at same rate.

I have been on some french forum where some guys easily adde some cloth simulation for cloth for a character.
The code is not so hard and it has automatic navigation caculation for AI, so no need to worry about monster to have to find your charcater laugh

And for power you can see a mobile running a very good 3D scene with characters :
Multi platform demo

So i don't agree, it's not really under Unity and Esenthel already have DX11 support, like tesselation also.
And not all engines have streaming also !

Im' sure someone would create big things with it laugh

Why i don't buy Esenthel :
- I don't like C++ or similar script/code , even if Esenthel runs Visual C++ on background !
- A8 script is perfect in easyness , and fast to understand and code
- With A8 you can produce games such as Supercan if you have 3D Art skills
- You can make your own super tools (Supercan editor)
- Communty and tutorials, magazine is the best you can find with a 3D Engine (even is Unity is not that bad in some areas)
- For zone based games , casual, platform , or any little game genre A8 is simply perfect laugh


---------

Now what A8 really need :
- Complete terrain editor
- Vegetation management
- why not someone porting raycast to it
- Visual shader library like Unity, one click to apply a shader and a panel to choose textures
- UI editor
- Complete particle editor and optimised particle system
- Decal tool (you choose the texture and place the decal where you want in the level : trees precalculated shadows, any decals on walls or floor or anywhere to make some variation )
- Some as good materials base to start a game as Esenthel or Unity :







Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/05/12 20:02

I target casual and cartoon style so i really don't need big engine features, A8 fits perfectly for me and projects i have in mind laugh

In fact like i said a lot, target some game , begin it, than choose the engine depênding on tools and features you really need !
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/07/12 15:03

I said performance of Unity is better because an Esenthel user, a former Unity user did engine comparisons with exactly the same level designs in this year. But in spite of the slower fps he moved to Esenthel, because had a lot of trouble with Unity (unsolved engine bugs etc.)

And Esenthel seems to be faster than Neoaxis due to my experiences - but did not make exact measurements...

For making lot of small (commercial) projects 3DGS A8 is much better because in Lite-C scripting can be done very effectively.

But Esenthel offers a lot of good things: no limited graphics features if you use free or cheaper editions (only no access to some source codes what you maybe don't need at all), the all-in-one editor, and its good terrain handling, which is important for me. By the way I don't really need an editor because I'm having my own one laugh but no time to complete it...

So I'm testing it beside using 3DGS as a possible alternative tool, but its usage is really different of 3dgs.
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/07/12 15:07

...and one more thing: there are the same building models in Esenthel demos what I use in my editor, from turbosquid laugh
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/07/12 18:26

Cool !
Do you have used your own animated models or some baught in some site to use with Esenthel ?

What i really like is the all in one editor laugh :



(A8 should really take example sometimes)
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 08:16

I'm mainly just playing with tutorials, and world editor (height-map import etc.).

But the modelling workflow seems to be fine too:
-support bvh motion capture skeletal animations directly! (lot of such a files are freely available, via Fragmotion they can be used in MED too)
-support dae, fbx, ms3d and x for animated characters directly!

as a proof, one minute ago I drag&drop a milkshape model with skeletal animation (converted from Medieval Total War 2, so not a simple one), and works perfectly. (The same I use in 3dgs for testing.) Vertical bones appears wrongly, but works fine (the developer said in the forum in similar cases that it can happen but always must work.)
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 09:13

This morning i came back to A8 engine : deception on workflow !
Well i just wanted to have a model with normal map on a model.
I had to read and loose ten minutes searching for the right piece of code on the manual and forum to simply apply a shader.Even by chossing the materail normal map shader on Wed Menu didn't work ??

Esenthel is lot more ahead with it's model editor where you can just choose your shader (normal map, specular, glow etc ...) and apply it to a model without coding !
And at any time you can switch the world editor laugh
A8 is broken in that side.

So i'll go for a test on Esenthel now for that special game i plan now; less arcade, more old RPG style !

Playing with terrain editor :


What is great is that you can paint multitextures directly and also paint colors or lightmap above them, this is great to make lot more variations on terrain.
Decals on terrain are great also.

The bad point is that i tried to import some FBX model on Esenthem, opened world editor than used the mesh panel but no way, i didn't understood how to do ?
It is really possible to import our own models ?

Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 12:15

in world editor you must be in object mode. maybe the world editor supports directly only .dae? but if you import it first to model editor it saves automatically in own format .mesh
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 13:11

I had to watch some youtube tutorials ot understand the workflow and what menus and steps to do :
-Drag and drop Blender or Obj file in the Model editor panel of esenthel
-Assign a material
- Choose a physic body or use the mesh as collision etc ...
- Auto make the normal map
- Choose a shader and adjust parameters for the material
- Import in the world editor with the Object menu and use "Insert" key to insert it

But Once you do it one or two times, that's really logic and simple workflow to follow ; and no coding required at all laugh

Here is my imported model on the scene :


Next test : Custom animated model import !
this is the final step that will tell me if i can really use Essenthel with my own custom 3D art or not ?

----------

License :
Until you don't sell anything, it's really free to use, you don't have to pay.
Once you pay the "Personal license" for 150$ , you can sell a title and publish on Android and Apple !
that's really a big great deal i find specially with all advanced stuff in it laugh

I 'm really thinking of using it to make some small turn based RPG game to test all i can do and what i can't do with it for the style of game i have in mind !

Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 13:40

animated models are stored as separate mesh, skeleton, animation (using the same skeleton), texture, and material files, plus a physics body needed to be created, but there are easy video tutorials.
but all of these were generated automatically for me when I imported an animated ms3d model (except physics body which is one click).
really simple, and the only feature limitations is that no custom shaders can be created. and for 150 USD you get 2 complete game source code with MMO client/server codes.
and definitely good for a couple of purposes
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 14:04

For shaders it has already lot lot of good and standard for most game without needing to write your own !
(and i never programmed shaders and don't want to do it , so it's ok)

Some indie mmo using kinect made with esenthel :
indie mmo
It shows, multiplayer or coop games can be done with it, and it can handle good complex scenes without frame rate problems.

--------------------------------

Ok for FBX, i just loaded in BLender 2.62 , a animated model i made under Blender 2.49 , then exported to FBX , than i dragged it on Esenthel editor and i could see the animation on the animation panel laugh

I edited the textures, materials, added a capsule collider and adjusted it in some clikcs, preview the animations with the cursor on lower time bar.
All is perfect.

But when i went on code : all is on predefined default animations.It's lot of code, and no tutorial on how easily control an animated character ?
Im' not sure it can be done or done easily as some other 3D engines using simple functions calls frown ?


Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 15:55

the coding is not so straightforward like Lite-C, it is practical to check the C++ tutorials, and meanwhile look into the header browser too, what belongs to which class... because there is no reference list of functions or similar. but it has a certain logic.
there is also a built in script editor using an own format, what I have not really checked.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 16:15

Yes , animation don't seem trivial by code at all !
Why don't the author make some hight level calls like :
character.animate("walk", 10,20,100) for example ?

-----------

Coming to 3DGS one example of something that makes me very unhappy and makes me loose all my time laugh



Working with Esenthel editor is too much better indeed in all areas aven to simply choose and apply shaders or apply and adjust a capsule physic for some character etc ... etc ...

But each engine has it own weak points, and with Esenthel i just can't look at all that page of code to just code some
basic character animations frown

Posted By: painkiller

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 19:24

@ratchet, it should be my.material=mtl_bump; not fx_bump wink
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/08/12 20:55

@Painkiller :
Thanks , in fact i tried your version , the only thing is that the include was not in the good file laugh
It compiles and launch , bu i don't see the normal effect, even dynamic light only affects don't show any normal map effect.

I have an old example where i succeeded with normal map, i'll have to try to find it , it is hidden somewhere in some folder ?
I really need this normal map/specular working with 3DGS also.
I hope 3DGS to really quickly improve the workflow for shaders, it should be priority 1 for any one to use models with normal maps ,specular, glow, reflective , at least these very basic ones quickly from a menu instead of coding !
(Add the header for shaders and add material code)
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/09/12 15:14

I've just tried importing terrain from L3DT to Esenthel, and it is really simple (import a heightmap image just like in MED). Covering it with tiled textures is also fine (materials should be made first from texture images if new ones are to be used), but have to be careful not to set, but blend them onto existing texture. Blending is based on L3DT texture alpha images (similarly to 3DGS terraintex.fx ffe). Blending strength can be fine tuned. Final tweakings and modifications are much easier than in MED/WED/GED/SED.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/09/12 22:48

Blending strength can be fine tuned. Final tweakings and modifications are much easier than in MED/WED/GED/SED.

Indeed, you can't compare the workflow or the terrain features !

But if i want to use some other engine for a terrain base game, Unity come first, simply because character animation is too much complicatd to program in Esenthel without hight level stuff frown
Unity keep the scripting very easy for animations, and it seems lot more easy indeed than Esenthel C++ !

You should test the character animation part and make your own character and animations controller laugh
Than we'll talk about it !
But perhaps you don't plan a game using characters with Esenthel ? (Portal, Monkey ball and other ball platform game style, space ship game ) ??
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/10/12 07:26

I know and like the features of Unitiy, but its pricing is not okay for me. I would need the full version, but I cannot buy that, similarly to 3DGS Pro. Esenthel offers a cheaper solution with full graphics feature set. I love Lite-C, and I like Unity-Script too (both are easy and logic for me), I should learn a lot to use Esenthel with its C++ scripting environment.
I need character animation for sure, so I make some trials. If it is too messy, I will not use Esenthel. Then I will simply upgrade to 3DGS Commercial instead of buying Esenthel Indie (approx. the same price, and I'm more or less familiar with 3DGS workflow).
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/10/12 12:24

after checking some tutorial codes, mainly in "Animation.cpp", character animation is not too complicated as I see, but 2 separate function loops are used:

- one for skeleton manipulation called "Update()" that defines the position of the corresponding mesh:
Code:
cskel.clear();     // clear controlled skeleton animation
cskel.animate(L"../data/anim/walk.anim", Time.time()); // animate with "walk" animation and current time position
cskel.updateMatrix    (MatrixIdentity); // update controlled skeleton animation matrixes
cskel.move( Vec(0,0,Sin(Time.time()) ) );  // move skeleton due to vector - here smoothly between +/-1 meter forward-backward
cskel.updateVelocities(              ); // update controlled skeleton bone velocities (this is needed for Motion Blur effect)


- and another "Render()" for mesh representation, and mesh is assigned here to the above described controlled skeleton:
Code:
Meshes("../data/obj/chr/skeleton/0.mesh")->draw(cskel); // get mesh from cache and render it with controlled skeleton matrixes


Of course it is much more complicated than in Lite-C, where you can use ent_animate() and c_move() within entity action loop.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/10/12 18:53

And the other problem is the references :
cskel.animate(L"../data/anim/walk.anim", Time.time());
...
Meshes("../data/obj/chr/skeleton/0.mesh")->draw(cskel);

This is where you need a reference to objects :
This is different from some script of some engines where you just call some : My.animate("walk", 100,200,20)
Where you don't care about the entity name , animation name.
You just glue code ot the entitie to control it.

Well, perhaps i'll do a try on C ++ code , but it's not what i wanted in terms of easy and quick gameplay programming !
Posted By: Wjbender

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/10/12 19:44

All this is ,is just a bit lower level coding than a higher language like gs
basicly you take those lower level functions and combine them together
to form logic what you want and put in a function which forms a bit higher level
coding ones you use that function/s you wrote... At the end all your functions
together forms a higher level language like you use in gs so the obvious
aim of this is to have more controll over the final product by providing more lower
level functions therefore it has its positive side and negative .the negative being
time and ability to understand / code higher functions from the lower ,and of course
dont forget bugs becouse if you dont understand it fully andd know how to use it
all correctly it will result in wasted time/money/effort. Using something like this
has its ups for any experienced c++ coder but maby not enough for someone looking
for a framework already put together at a higher level of coding like gs
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/11/12 06:30

yes, it needs more time to learn, and requires deeper knowledge of C++, but there are also some higher level functions to be used for certain purposes e.g. character control, like in Unity, and those can be modified or expanded. so after creating your own system it could be more flexible.
at the moment lite-c is perfect for me, I have my editor what I control in 100%, so don't want to give up my developments without finishing them. but in future Esenthel can be a good option for me because it features a lot of things I need or I will need. of course, it depends on what 3DGS engine development provides in future.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/11/12 20:22

Yes, Lite-C scripting is lot more easy and friendly , lot more hight level for my purposes laugh
Esenthel have a good bunch of great features:
- advanced visual effects (DX11, tessellation), movement with some distortion effect,
- Level Streaming
- advanced multi texturing (and it's great tools)
- pathfinding system around level meshes
- easy player collision capsule setup
etc ...

Perhaps someone will make some lot more hight level framework on top of it for common things ; who knows ?
But i'll won't wait years, this is something i learned from old days of A6 beginnings wink
I know that you can't wait about features, the time is now, if you really need some things for a project you have in mind, then you have to decide to take the better engine that suits your goals today.

For me actually, and what i target A8 do the job, so i stay with it (even if i use some other 3D engine from times to times) !
Posted By: 3run

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/12/12 00:14

If UDK had a Lite-C, I would switch without any doubts grin
Posted By: Wjbender

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/12/12 19:45

Or how bout cryengine for fps
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/13/12 22:21

UDK have some scripting system !
If you target FPS it's perhaps the way to go ?
But they'll take royalties on your game if you success enought !
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/14/12 08:08

..and UDK has much higher system requirements. but it depends on your pc, and on what you expect from your potential users... and as I heard UDK is not an easy to use system.

what I think about fps games:
- an ordinary fps game is basically an easy and boring thing to script, but if it can be played online against human players it becomes real fun, but that requires good marketing (=money investment) to achieve high enough number of players, and a nice server background...
- the other good case if the game environment is unique, like that 3DGS project with strange gravity features (I don't remember the name). In this case 3DGS is really the best choice due to its fast scripting language (and in this case gameplay is more important than shiny graphics).
- the 3rd case if it has a popular story like Star Wars, but usually they are badly not royalty free... in this case graphics has to satisfy the highest expectations, to approximate the original story environment.

for making online games Esenthel has some ready set of MMO scripts, both for client and server side (what I have not tested yet), and has also a server support for licensed users. building up game levels and making nice graphics can be done faster than in 3DGS without licence limitations. I think in this case it is a good choice. but when you need to make a lot of own scripting, you have to be a skilled programmer to expand Esenthel's functionalities.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/14/12 19:09

but when you need to make a lot of own scripting, you have to be a skilled programmer to expand Esenthel's functionalities.
Yes, but you have to do it in some language more complicated than a simple scripting system.
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/15/12 08:20

yes, this is the main drawback of Esenthel for me. maybe c++ programmers like it.
as a consequence: I'm upgrading my 3DGS from extra to commercial in this month laugh

and another important thing: Esenthel does not have at the moment instancing and no shader supported bone animation, what you can get by buying 3DGS Pro (only sprite instancing, as I read model instancing was implemented and tested but won't be released because the complexity and low performance boost).
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/15/12 19:05

Even wihtout these features Esenthel runs really great already, just test the demos of mmo with lot of animated models.

Good point for A8 commercial.
Yes 3DGS Pro nowadays seems a too much hight price indeed, specially when you can nearly have Unity Pro for that price !
But this price can be good for someone making some real business and money with 3DGS , in that case if the money income is great, no problem !
But for all lonewolf and little projects, i doubt we'll spend such money when you are not sure to sell a product made with it.

Well it was a Esenthel thread ... laugh
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/16/12 07:42

earlier I thought of making an engine comparison thread but that would be too messy laugh but maybe I will make it for fun grin
if we are observing an engine it is not avoidable to speak about of its competitors.

I felt worthy to make this thread because Esenthel is a really promising engine, especially if we take into account its pricing together with its great features. I think it is a good choice also for hobbyists and indie developers, if they are advanced C++ programmers.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 05/16/12 18:11

For advanced programmers, yes perhaps !
For more 3D artist oriented people, this is lot more hard engine to use.

No need to compare engine; each engine have good and bad points.
Even someone using UT3 , abandoned some game project, due to complicated stuff to make some custom vehicle thing.

Well, yes Esenthel is great, i just regret that it don't have not enought higt level language !
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 09/27/12 08:43

a new Esenthel editor is in progress, but available for purchase.
I think it is worthy to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xACb-0tl5I&feature=plcp
cool for teams as members can work online, and get project updates immediately.
asset import and management also much better than in the current editor.
some scripting features also integrated.

3DGS could also be improved in the same tempo as Esenthel...
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/13/12 10:56

I'm experiencing again with Esenthel:
controlling 100 characters with physx and navmesh pathfinding having really cool PSSM shadows,
by 215 lines and really little editor works
(imported my textures, a skycube, an L3DT terrain heightmap and texture blendmaps, and a .ms3d bone animated model I'm also using in 3DGS, plus some default buildings and palm trees):

Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/13/12 22:01

How many time did you put to do that ?

Are you able to code your characters motion ? like playing animations by code ?

25 FPS , You need optimisation lile :
LOD on characters and their shaders , disable their shadows at distance , distant palm trees also.

I let down Esenthel caus of complicatde character code to animate them like we need (too much maths and non easy to understand code).
It was the only thing, that made me say : ok too much programmer style in some way for me.

Otherwie , fro the price, this is a very advanced 3D engine great features like Navmesh and other great tools and visual features with good frame rate.
And mobile support is just great also.
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/14/12 11:18

finally I collected the info from the tutorials, which is a bit time consuming (I spent a few weeks with it around May-June), but now I could do it within a day.

my laptop is new but not a high end one, 3DGS also similarly slow with pssm shadows beside optimized models. but this pssm is using 6 stages with improved smoothing settings, and I used 1366x768 resolution, so it could be faster.

yes, the characters are not optimized at all, got from Medieval Total War 2, using own bone animations from separate files (it is also possible to use the default skeleton using built in animations). and what is the most time consuming, in every frame I call a pathfinder for each character - one is the leader dealing full path, the others only keepeing their position relatively to it. the physX collisions also eats up FPS, because no collision avoidance integrated into Esenthel - and propably will never be done. so this part is only good for a quick testing.

trees are having LOD - it is easy to make LOD models in its model editor, or externally created LOD models can be used.

player and AI character coding is simple, it has a ready character class developed for MMORPG, with PhysX and Navmesh pathfinding, which can be extended - this is what I did, overrided skeleton and animation due to created mesh, added some new group properties for keeping the formation, and extended the update loop (creation and update is nearly similar to Unity awake and update system).

one minor thing which is not too handy, if runtime created objects are used, they should have own rendering and shadow calls in render update loop - yes there is a separate draw/render loop to draw the world, the gui, and created models.

the engine is free with full features, ony when you sell something you have to buy one license per product. android support is available only after having a licence.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/14/12 22:41

this is what I did, overrided skeleton and animation due to created mesh

Ok so four your own skeleton and animations , you have recoded these parts ?
Have you some code to show on this character coding parts ?
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/15/12 09:18

yes I put this code to Esenthel forum here in July: http://www.esenthel.com/community/showthread.php?tid=5233 showing the bad performance of my previous laptop unsupporting SM 3.0 that is required for pssm.

but the main things are:

extending base character class and call it as Player:
Code:
STRUCT(Player , Game::Chr) // extend character class by defining a player class based on the character
//{
	virtual void create(Game::ObjParams &obj); // override default creation method to setup custom default animations after character creation
	virtual Bool update(); // here we'll update the player (please note that this is a virtual method)

	// formation data
	int row;
	int column;
	int arraynum;
};


assigning custom animation to the mesh on creation (the super::create line is calling the built in character initialization, the others are my extension codes):
Code:
void Player::create(Game::ObjParams &obj)
{
   super::create(obj); // call default creation
    
   sac.stand = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/idle.anim");
   sac.run = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/walk.anim");
   sac.walk = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/walk.anim");

   speed = 3;
   anim.speed = 1;
}


in the main update loop (Bool Update()) dealing with pathfinding in each frame (should be optimized):
Code:
if(Kb.bp(KB_ESC))return false;
   Physics.startSimulation().stopSimulation();
   int i;
   //------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   // move leader of player group
   if(Ms.bp(0)) // on LMB pressed
   {
      Vec     pos, dir; ScreenToPosDir(Ms.pos(), pos, dir); // convert screen mouse position to world position and direction
      PhysHit phys_hit;
      if(Physics.ray(pos, dir*D.viewRange(), &phys_hit)) // if ray-test hit something
      {
          player[0].actionMoveTo(Vec(phys_hit.plane.pos.x, phys_hit.plane.pos.y, phys_hit.plane.pos.z)); // order character to

move to that location      
      }
   }
   //------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   // player group movement
   Vec leaderpos = player[0].pos();
   for(i=1;i<100;i++)    
      player[i].actionMoveTo(Vec(leaderpos.x+player[i].column*2,leaderpos.y,leaderpos.z-player[i].row*2));
   for(i=0;i<100;i++)
      player[i].update();


and finally the render and draw cycles:
Code:
void Render()
{
	// world.cpp
	Game::World.draw(); // draw world (this is done outside of 'switch(Renderer())' because world automatically detects active rendering mode)
	//-------------------------------------
    int i;
	switch(Renderer())
    {
      case RM_PREPARE:
		  {         
			 for(i=0;i<100;i++)
				player[i].drawPrepare();
		  }break;
	  case RM_SHADOW:
		  {
			  for(i=0;i<100;i++)
				player[i].drawShadow();
		  }break;
    }
}
void Draw()
{
   Renderer(Render);

   D.text(0, 0.9f, S+"Fps "+Time.fps());
}


and everything works smoothly, not like in 3DGS, where as I progress further and further I find more and more bugs... I reported about 10 bugs within a year, most of them very disturbing and "it should work" category.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/15/12 22:03

Yes Esenthel is an engine a level above and more professionnal (just see the mmos made with it).
But 3DGS is perfect for documentation, new beginners to 3D , and easy learning script and programming.

-----------------

I stick with 3DGS for my Zelda style game.
I'll have to switch only if i succeed making it and wanting ot make an Android mobile version.


sac.stand = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/idle.anim");
sac.run = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/walk.anim");
sac.walk = &cskel.getSkelAnim("obj/chr/sergeant/walk.anim");


From what program did you exported your animated character ?
BLender files ? Blender to FBX ?
Can you have any animated character with any skeleton, import it, than just call animations ?

Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/15/12 22:39

the character is from the game Medieval Total War II and uses its skeleton and some corresponding animations, converted to Milkshape format ms3d. it can be imported to Esenthel, but previously I modified the animations in Fragmotion to be game engine compatible (mocap animations have moving pelvis, in game engines it should stay around origo).
the game model packs can be unpacked by an official tool, and they also released all animations for the modding community some years ago. I use them as placeholders. but their previous game Rome Total War is also moddable, there are a lot of tools for it. I collect many experience from game modding! earlier I used for my tests a vertex animated model converted from Age of Mythology, which is also moddable.

there is a default skeleton in Esenthel, if you apply it for your human character model after importing, you can use the default animations. I did not tested it but there is a tutorial video as I remember showing how to assign vertices to bones and how to set their weighting...

and yes Esenthel requires good C++ programming knowledge, so I stay with 3DGS to finish my developments and make my first real game, beside getting experience in Esenthel too, which has some benefits in some categories.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/15/12 23:15

Well it's not pure C++ vaus their code editor runs on top of Visual C++ studio. And yes their C++ is not always easy.
The day you'll take on another engine, there are interesting little ones specially this promising one that have simple C++ commands to call :
LE3
So yes for now , i stay with very easy script and 3DGS.

Esenthel if i find the features i need not too much complicated i could go for it later for anotehr game why not ?
3DGS in comparaison lacks a lot in some areas like , Esenthel have lot of advanced big features , could it be terrain advanced terrain system and tools, graphics, powerfull engine , navmesh system, great network code etc ...

And there is some Version 3 coming that said to be lot more fast and easy to use ?





Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/16/12 09:23

yes, its coding is much easier than pure C++, contains a lot of macros, helper functions, and other special things like memory containers for objects, that results in much easier programming. it also has its own coding environment integrated into the editor.
there is one free example game, an outdoor shooter with zombies; and there are some others for a few tens of dollars, which can worth the money to get a basic but working MMORPG or a Minecraft styled or a RTS game for Android...
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/18/12 17:30

...earlier I got 20-25 FPS with DX9 compilation, now I checked, the same thing runs on 35-40 FPS with DX10 compilation. it is much better!
I don't know whether DX10 is planned for 3DGS once or not...
Posted By: Wjbender

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/18/12 20:17

downloaded esenthel today ,"i like it" havent gotten into coding yet just played
around in editor and reading help ,its very cool
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/18/12 23:39

I don't know anything abouit 3DGS future ???
For example Unity 4 already has DX11 features, and some great other planned ones ... For Esenthel that's cool they have DX10.

For the coding , i really do'nt find it easy at all compared to script.
But well ... perhaps i'll have to give it another try one day ?

---------------

For animated models, can we import in the engine models from Blender ? or FBX ? without exporting on very old formats like MD2 or MD3 ?
Posted By: Wjbender

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/19/12 06:38

What i have seen so far is fbx collada and panda (microsoft x) perhaps sivan could
share what formats there are are to import because I
have not seen a list of them yet and would like to know
also..
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/19/12 08:11

I used .x and .ms3d until now, both works perfectly!
info from documentation:

Esenthel Engine supports importing of following mesh formats:

3DS - 3D Studio (mesh, materials, no vertex normals)
ASE - Ascii Scene Export (mesh, materials)
B3D - BlitzMax (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton, animation)
BVH - Biovision Motion Capture (skeleton, animation)
DAE - Collada (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton, animation) - Most Recommended
FBX - Autodesk FilmBox (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton, animations)
MS3D - MilkShape3D (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton, animation)
OBJ - Wavefront OBJ (mesh, materials)
PSK - Unreal Engine Model (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton)
PSA - Unreal Engine Animation (skeleton, animations)
WRL - VRML97 (mesh)
X - DirectX (mesh, materials, skin, skeleton, animations)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Blender
Exporting model without skeleton and animation from Blender:

The best way is to use native OBJ exporter.

Exporting model with skeleton and animation from Blender:

For Blender >= 2.50 the best way is to use built-in FBX Exporter.

For Blender < 2.50 the best way is to use Gandaldf's B3D Exporter ( exporter1 , exporter2 ).
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/19/12 19:23

that's cool for fbx !
For collisions can you use simple shapes or capsule for characters ?
How it is done : by pogram you code the collision , or it is some Visual Gizmo for that purpose ? (a la Unity 3D caspule editor ?)

I'm not sure to make some terrain based game for now ...
And the code is more complicated than simple scripts ... it seems i seen some memory management (something non programmers want to avoid , we're not in the old days ...)
Posted By: Wjbender

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/19/12 21:00

Its editor has build in physics editor .can use capsules etc ...
after looking further into the examples i have to say
its very cool and i will use it for sure ! Oh and yes can
be created by code aswell , actualy alot more can be
done with coding ,theres alot of advanced effects and
stuff i like about it . The c++ coding suites me fine ,
Though a scripter would be cool ,well theres always
lua and python for those wanting and knowing how to
impliment it
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/19/12 21:47

Well the code is not easy at all :

----------------

if(Players.elms())
{
Player &plr=Players[0];
if(View==VIEW_TPP)
{
Cam.setSpherical(plr.ctrl_center+Vec(0,1,0), plr.angle.x, plr.angle.y, 0, Cam.dist*ScaleFactor(Ms.wheel()*-0.2));
}else
if(View==VIEW_ISO)
{
if(Ms.bp(0) && (!Gui.ms() || Gui.ms()==Gui.desktop())) // move to
{
Vec pos, dir; ScreenToPosDir(Ms.pos(), pos, dir);
PhysHit phys_hit; if(Physics.ray(pos, dir*D.viewRange(), &phys_hit, ~IndexToFlag(AG_CONTROLLER)))
{
plr.actionMoveTo(phys_hit.plane.pos);
}
}
if(Ms.b(1) || Ms.b(2) || Ms.b(4))
{
Cam.yaw -=Ms.d().x;
Cam.pitch+=Ms.d().y;
Ms.freeze();
}
Cam.setSpherical(plr.ctrl_center+Vec(0,0.5,0), Cam.yaw, Cam.pitch, 0, Cam.dist*ScaleFactor(Ms.wheel()*-0.2));
}else
{
if(OrientP *head_point=plr.cskel.findPoint(8"Head"))
{
OrientP head =*head_point;
Vec up =!PointOnPlane(Vec(0,1,0), head.dir);
Flt blend=Sat((1-Abs(head.dir.y))/0.25)*0.5;
head.perp=Lerp(head.perp, up, blend); // move 'up' towards Vec(0,1,0) to reduce head rolling
head.fixPerp();
Cam.setPosDir(head.pos, head.dir, head.perp);
}else
{
Cam.setAngle(plr.ctrl_center, plr.angle.x, plr.angle.y);
}



----------------------

It's lot more maths and things i don't know.
For me it's low level programming.

To gain time, some of us prefer hight level functions , like
pan, tilt roll etc ... instead of maths and complicated functions.

Even other indie engines , programmed in C# or C++ give hight level functions you can call.

For me Esenthel is less complicated than C4 engine, but this is too low level much programming stuff.
I could learn, but , i prefer to program fast with easy functions and gain time.
The counterpart, is that Esenthel offers BIG POWER, special effects, rendering etc ... with great FPS.

But well , i really think i'll avoid Esenthel for now.
Posted By: sivan

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/20/12 08:19

yes it's better for small groups where there are 3d artists and programmers too. imo it suits artist's requirements by easy importing from a lot of modelling softwares, easy setting of custom physical shapes of objects etc.

you need to go through some C++ tutorials before you can really understand it, so did I. and also needs patience to go through all the tutorials, and check always the header browser to understand all lines of the tutorials, because there are no step by step tutorials, only some videos but they are mainly editor related ones. for me it was a good inspiration to start with C++ tutorials. its scripting style is somewhere between C++ and C# solutions, so much easier than C++.

3DGS is much easier to understand and easy to script simple games, but e.g. in my case, making an RTS game system it has some limitations, which can be handled by Lite-C (I nearly solved all my AI problems), but much easier in an object oriented environment. and the rendering system is more up-to-date than 3DGS.
Posted By: ratchet

Re: Esenthel Engine - 11/20/12 20:52

because there are no step by step tutorials
Yes ,they maek you pay, the price is not big, but well ...
this not makes the engine friendly user at all.
They suppose, it is easy to understand and work with it !

its scripting style is somewhere between C++ and C# solutions, so much easier than C++.
Are GUI programming , interaction collisions, particles system, file handler easy to program ???
What i like is that behind it generates C++ code that will be compiled throught Visaul Studio, so more power ...



and the rendering system is more up-to-date than 3DGS.

Indeed, Esenthel is among the up to date and powerfull indie engines. Mobile support si great, and when you see the price, that's a big deal for a team with a good programmer.
There is LE3 engine coming soon also and for similar price, advanced engine, great and fast workflow also for a small price also.

Esenthel 2 is coming, i'm waiting to see the real prices and features after the Beta !

big indie Engines
© 2024 lite-C Forums