Experiment 3DGS
Posted By: Locoweed
Experiment 3DGS - 08/21/05 22:50
I am looking for 3 newbies. One modeler, one level designer, and one programmer for an experimental very simple project with 3DGS. Let me know if you are interested and why you should be on team (post here or PM me). It will be a great learning experience for you guaranteed. The three will get together and make a simple game of the team's choosing with minor guidance from some crusty old timers. The game will be up to the team, but it will be very simple in nature, which means, the crusty old timers will decide depending on the team if the team possibly could finish the game plan within the time limit, since the old timers have yet to meet a deadline that they thought they would.
You have one week from today to apply. The project, once started, has to be completed in three months.
This possibly could have been under Contest, but I think it belongs here. If you are new to 3DGS and want to get involved, this project might be a great opportunity to meet others at your level and actually create and finish something within a deadline, with some input from others who have been around a while.
That is the reason for this experiment, I am hoping that the participants will be the next generation of 3DGS gurus, faster than struggling through it all themselves and learning how to work together as a team. Possibly, after the experiment, staying together and actually making a more complex game.
There is no pay. Basically it's an experience, but the completed game belongs to the team that created it with no stipulations from me or others who gave advise to the team.
Loco
Posted By: Spider_Man
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/22/05 00:58
I don't know how fastyou wish to work on this , or what kind of models you wish to make , but you can take me ..i'd like to go with the team.
regards
Posted By: Zubera
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/22/05 07:10
The idea sounds realy good. I like to be the scripter in the team.
Posted By: Gesus_K_ICY
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/22/05 17:55
i could level design
, would u prefer it in a drawing or a 3dgs file (this way would take longer for me to uplaod it to u (no one know i have the internet and i gota use my uncles pc))
Posted By: Towelie
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/22/05 18:00
I wish someone did this when I was a newbie
Wait, I still am, can I join
heehee... just messin. Good idea Loco, cant wait to see the results.
Posted By: bupaje
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/22/05 21:24
This sounds interesting Locoweed. I am tempted to jump in with both feet but am starting school full time + full time work. However if you are going to guide the product along with fellow crusties then it seems too good to pass up. I'd be interested in something like a 'level designer junior' - a sort of understudy- or some similar if it turns out that others have similar time limits. If a list of structures or plans for a level are drawn up then as time allows I could do some grunt work and build some houses or make terrains etc. I just don't want to be the 'main guy' in any category and not be able to deliver.
Otherwise I'll look forward to the next experiment as this sounds promising.
Posted By: scary_man
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/23/05 18:14
@Towilie: me too
what type of game are you expecting to make?
-Jeroen
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/23/05 22:21
Thanks for the response all.
To those interested that have PM's me or posted I will be getting back with you shortly after the time limit for applying is up, or earlier if I have any questions for you.
@ scary_man, it will be up to the team to decide what kind of game they are going to make as long as it can be completed in a 3 month period. I put the 3 month time period for a quite a few reasons, the main one being, I would like to see the team start a project that they can actually accomplish as beginners with 3DGS.
What will happen here is, that every member of the team will be matched up with someone (or possibly a few people) who have experience in their department (modelling, level design, or programming) that will help them along with one-on-one help, as well as, pointing the team members to the correct tutorials/examples that will best help the team accomplish their game objective.
I don't want the team to think they won't have to do the work, because they will be the ones who create the game. They will just have access to advise and knowledge of the supporting cast of experts or intermediate users in their specialty and they will learn quite a lot about team dynamics too, which may be the most important lesson of them all.
Loco
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/24/05 02:27
Ok, I am having to consider a few things here as manager of the team.
I actually have some people who have been out of 3DGS for a while, but want to get back in the grove that want to be involved in this project. If I decide that is a good idea there would be the intermediate level members of the team. In any case, whether the intermediate level is in or not, I think there may be 2 people per position. 2 modelers, 2 level designers, and 2 scripters. Hmmm... I need to think on that more. The team does need to be as small as possible for this project.
@ Spider_Man, after reviewing the consistancy of your post on 3dgs and the interest you have, you are probably definately in as a modeler for the team, if that is the position you are interested in. PM me sometime.
I have a pretty good idea of the first positions as level designer and scripter to from the pm's and post here too.
I am probably going to have to apologize for using the term "newbie" so lightly. I do want new 3dgs members to be involved, but as the team manager I have to have something to go by to determine your actual interest in 3DGS. To determine the best combination of people to make up the team, I need to see what questions and data you have been trying to gather to improve yourself in your specialty. So unfornately, that will probably rule out those with only a few post.
Loco
Posted By: Ambassador
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/24/05 18:01
Hmm... sounds cool... if you guys actually complete the game I could TRY to find some time to make music for it... if you need music...
Posted By: Ayrus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/24/05 19:01
Sent you a pm Loco, this definitly seems interesting.
Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Towelie
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/24/05 20:30
Ayrus is a newbie?
now I've seen everything!!
Posted By: Ayrus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/24/05 21:20
lol, i pmed with respects to this quote.. :P
Quote:
If I decide that is a good idea there would be the intermediate level members of the team. In any case, whether the intermediate level is in or not, I think there may be 2 people per position. 2 modelers, 2 level designers, and 2 scripters. Hmmm... I need to think on that more.
Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Excessus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/25/05 07:57
Interesting idea, who will be the 'crusty old timers'?
Posted By: Juppp
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/25/05 19:52
Locoweed's projects are very serious, i'm glad he offers this !!!
Posted By: Towelie
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/26/05 17:21
So has the team been put together? If so, can you release names?
Posted By: sebbo
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/29/05 11:10
Blub
whats going on ?
cu Sebbo
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/29/05 17:02
I am going to PM the applicants tonight.
Posted By: Nadester
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/30/05 06:12
Quote:
I wish someone did this when I was a newbie Wait, I still am, can I join heehee... just messin. Good idea Loco, cant wait to see the results.
We're all newbies to some extent. You know where to find me if you need anything
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/30/05 23:50
Ok, heres the team as of now.
Newbies:
Spider_Man - Modeler / Iraq
Sebbo - Modeler / ?
naturephoenix - Programmer / Deutschland
nunofontoura - ? / Brazil
Intermediate:
Bupaje - Level design, Textures / USA
Ayrus - Level design / Canada
Juppp - Programmer / Germany
Ambassador - Music , FX / Finland
Fuxer - Modeler / Albania
Locoweed - Programmer / USA
Nadester - Whatever else we need to know / USA
Nunofontoura, I need to know what you specialize in.
Sebbo, I need to know what country you live in.
There may still be some positions open here on the newbie side. I will let you know after I gather all the information from the newbie applicants.
It looks like we may still have some newbie positions open in level design.
If you are a newer user to 3DGS, there is still a chance to get on this team, but please respond quickly with what your speciality is or what what you want your specialty to be.
Loco
Posted By: nunofontoura
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 08/31/05 15:06
Hi, Loco.
Happy to see my name here. I'v sent you a pm.
Thanks,
Nunofontoura.
Posted By: sebbo
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/01/05 07:13
Hi Loco.
THX !!!!!! i send you a pm.
cu Sebbo
ps. THX
Posted By: Zubera
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/01/05 11:50
I send you a pm
Posted By: Ambassador
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/01/05 17:38
Whaaaaa I'm a intermediate?!? I'm a pro man! XD lol j/k...
thanks for adding me loco
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/02/05 02:53
We will be setting up a Message Board for the team this weekend and I will start getting everyone together after that. It will probably be Sunday before I can get everything setup because I am harvesting.
Once I get the message board up, I will PM all the team members and then you can get started.
First up will be what kind of game do you want to make, so you can think about that until then.
Loco
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/04/05 06:47
The 3DGS Experiment Forum should be up and PM's sent to members with the link. Have fun team.
Loco
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/20/05 21:28
We still have room for a "newbie" scripter. If you are interested PM me please.
We are about ready to get busy, we are closing in on the basic game theme.
Loco
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 09/21/05 21:37
Scripter position has now been filled.
Thanks
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 01:16
Well, I tried what some others before me have tried and had the same results. Unfornately this project failed. It might have suceeded if I didn't give the team any options of what the game was to be about, but none the less, strike this down as a failure. I really thought the newbs I choose would make it happen, but I was very mistaken, as some others before have found out too. I really wanted it to work out, but it didn't. Not to say, that I didn't meet some very talented and dedicated people, but overall, most all new members flaked out, for various reasons. But I did find a new friend out of it all, so it's not a total loss. Although, a few of my old friends probably aren't so happy with the time they spent.
So I will go now and hide in the bat cave for a while. It's always a bad sign when you have 10 topics and your user-name is the last post in each.
I tried once, but I failed like those before me,
Loco
Posted By: Nadester
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 01:33
It kind of is a shame. I'm really sorry, I probably should have been paying more attention to it than I was. But with something like 5 managers, and 3 unmotivated developers, I didn't have too much motivation myself. (My eyes were bigger than my stomach too, I'm afraid I didn't have as much time to offer as I would have liked too). But nonetheless, thanks for trying, and I hope maybe we can work together on something more successful in the future.
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 01:37
Hey Nadester, it had nothing to do with you. It was all about new people wanting to learn about 3dgs, in the end, there was only one that really had the hunger, and I will continue to work with him.
Anyway, it's as much my fault as anyones. I wasn't expecting to manage the project and I didn't. So, really, it's as much my fault the project failed as anyones. The project could still actually suceed, but with the progress and interest like it is, we could all better spend our time.
Loco
Posted By: Nems
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 03:39
Happened to me too Locoweed, all best intentions and great crew but no staying power or willingnes to committ except for one I found.
Then I got horribly ill and had to withdraw.
Posted By: A.Russell
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 05:10
It's a full time job just organising that many people. I think if you had a solid design plan before you started you would have more chance of success, but even if you are paying people they don't always come through.
JCL has said that the teams that are most productive with 3DGS are usually two members. The vast majority of people here don't have enough power, mangement + leadership skill or money to manage and motivate even a small team for the duration of a project. I'm very impressed any time an indie team working for free or the promise of payment at the end actually produce a finished product. In those cases you invariably find one or two members with the personality, vision and drive to keep the others going.
You and Fuxers have been working well together. Hurry up and finish The Kid!
Posted By: Juppp
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 14:37
nothing you can do about when you have 10 members and over the half doesn't show interest. It's really hard nowadays to find new dedicated developers.
Well i had fun as a scripter while it lastet, but lost the fun to it once i figured nothing else was being done. The Scripting department was set, we would have had zero troubles there.
I'm really not much impressed by thoose people who joined and kept dragging down the motivation of the people who actually were working on it.
Next time i'm going to join a team i will make sure to have no slackers arround me.
However, it's not Loco's fault, how can you know that beforehand anyways ?
Thanks Locoweed though, even if it failed, i learned atleast something about the steps in a Project and of course new tricks in Scripting.
Posted By: Joozey
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 15:36
I don't know who had it in it's signature long time ago, but it was a wise sentence:
"the main reason most gameprojects fail is due to the lack of leadership".
I find coörperation very difficult. Me and my cousin have tried making games together several times, but even with direct contact using "skype" we haven't finished just one pesky little game, probably due to the lack of leadership
. I mainly try to be good at everything, modelling, skinning, scripting, level design, etc., like my cousin. And I think that's where it goes wrong. We often want to work at the same thing, but that doesn't work
.
I guess it's nobodies fault when a project fails, because there is simply a project-leader neccesary, and not everyone is good at that, like me
.
It's never bad to try though.
Good luck with whatever you are planning to do,
Jostie
Posted By: Ithicus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 21:34
Teams are good fun...if you have time. Unfortuantely, I got paired up with the most lazy assed losers on these foumrs - Bilbo and Tachys! LOL JK! I think 3 people is most productive, but thats just me. We havent gotten much done becuase theres so little time, and me having a job now just makes that worse.
We will find a way. And wow, you will have your breath taken away when our game hits the X360! LOL
McLaren
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 21:34
Well, we tried. Anyway the source can be found at my 3DGS site under the miscelleneous link, 3d Sidescroller. Basically it's just the movement. WASD or cursor keys to move. Shift to run. Space to jump. You can also point and click where you want to go with pathfinding. So atleast some more example script came out of it.
Loco
Posted By: bupaje
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 22:21
Well, not sure if it is of any use but you could put the storyline and my meager 'design' contributions -as lame as they are- out there as well.
Would have liked to have done more but such is life. Thanks Locoweed, Juppp and others for whatever was learned.
Posted By: Ithicus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 10/31/05 22:50
HOLY [censored] thats exactly what my team is doing! That script will definatly come in handy! Credit will be given as well.
Thanks alot!
McLaren
Least you had a go
Posted By: Bilbo
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 00:59
mclaren u filthy thief :P i caaught u stealing others work
trying to slack off are u
damn programmers just cant get the staff these days :P *whistles while downloading*
Posted By: Ayrus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 01:17
well Loco, you gave it a good shot and I wish I could have gotten more level work done (I didn't accomplish nearly as much as I would have liked)..
Either way, I still have all the scripts and such.. and I may still hack away at it here and there.. just to see what I come up with (If I come up with something cool, I'll send you a few screenshots). Either way, as the saying goes, "Nothing Ventured means Nothing Gained"... and I would like to think that everyone involved with this hopefully walked away with at the very least a better understanding of what it takes to put together even just a small demo (Time, effort and planning, and dedication). I know it was kind of hard put from the get go with people leaving early on because they couldn't become masters of 3dgs overnight, or else because something in their lives came up...
It would have been nice if we could have seen this through though... and maybe one day, there will be a starting level
Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Guardian
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 03:21
If you had started with a finished game maybe you could have made progress. I mean I finish "game templates" all the time.
If you started with the basic outline of a game a "template" of sorts then any addition to it might be considered a success. And if the project is carried on an ongoing basis like a wiki maybe eventually something good could come from it.
I’m not sure I have been to clear here but basically, starting extremely small, and using better communication channels, and small goals maybe good work might trickle in? Maybe such a game could be cut into sections and completed one small section at a time. Using forums, wikis, better online communictions and tools, and view it more as a resource site.
Just my thoughts I was hopeful for this project and nearly joined myself, though I haven’t had good experience with team projects either.
I hope this was helpful I'm a little tired right now.
Guardian
Posted By: Jamie_Lynn
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 03:32
Guardian, I think I know what you mean. Maybe everyone could contribute some ideas of how to make something like this more successful as I think many in the community was hopeful about this project.
I think it is worth a post mortem and another kick at the can.
Posted By: Ayrus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 05:59
well, I havn't necessarily givin up for the simple fact that something like this would be an excellent learning tool for anyone looking to go in on a project and really see what it is like to see it through to the finish.
Either way, I can state right off 2 big things that killed this project (IMO); Impatience, Communication.
Impatience is up there because everybody wanted to do everything all at once so to speak. Some people wanted to just dive right in without taking the time to plan it out and flash it out a bit. Level designers wanted to build levels, programmers wanted to program, modellers wanted to model, etc... (I think you get the idea), but nobody wanted to sit down and take the time to build the full premise/storyline, decide on the weapons/powerups/items, decide on anything really or really set a basic set of guidelines. Because of this, people got too impatient to start building the world and lost interest, leaving the project.
Now, something that was not a failing, but did hurt us was the fact that a few people had to back out because they simply could not find the time to work on this and maintain their lives as well. Now, this did hurt us, but was, in its own way a good thing because these people realised that they couldn't do it, and let us know so that we wouldn't think we could expect any input from them.
Now, communication was also a big factor. At this time, all we used was icq/msn/aim and the forum, when it probably would have been smarter to go ahead and use a solution such as Skype or netmeeting. We also were unable to effectively have a meeting of any real kind because we could not set a specific time when all of us could be online (Different timezones). Now, we did try our best... but our lines of communication were very spotty and unreliable at best.
Now, of the things that went right, the first thing was that we tried to keep it as simple as possible, but with our own little innovations to make it "ours". We went with a basic shoot-em-up type sidescroller that would not be too hard for the level designers to build, the artists to texture, or the programmers to program. We didn't have to worry about the game concept becoming too complex for us because of the limitations of the sidescroller genre.
We Also made sure to have a means of making the files accessable to everyone on the team via ftp, which is always good because it allows for anyone to work on/with any aspect that they needed to do their Job (In my situation it was getting the main scripts from the programmers to design the level around the limitations of the camera, things like that.). This was also nice because we could work something out, then post a demo for all to download and evaluate and effectively input on.
Thats my current thoughts on the project, Loco, and the other might have different views and opinions, and it would be good to see those as well.
Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Jamie_Lynn
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 06:31
Quote:
Impatience is up there because everybody wanted to do everything all at once so to speak. Some people wanted to just dive right in without taking the time to plan it out and flash it out a bit. Level designers wanted to build levels, programmers wanted to program, modellers wanted to model, etc... (I think you get the idea), but nobody wanted to sit down and take the time to build the full premise/storyline, decide on the weapons/powerups/items, decide on anything really or really set a basic set of guidelines. Because of this, people got too impatient to start building the world and lost interest, leaving the project.
So then this goes back to what ARussell said - it might have worked better if you started with a design. That way all these eager beavers could have jumped in ... but into something defined.
I think a staged plan might have helped then. Start first with a design team and only after the design is finished, start to add on other team members.
Quote:
Now, something that was not a failing, but did hurt us was the fact that a few people had to back out because they simply could not find the time to work on this and maintain their lives as well. Now, this did hurt us, but was, in its own way a good thing because these people realised that they couldn't do it, and let us know so that we wouldn't think we could expect any input from them.
I don't know how to do this .. but I hear you.
There must be committment to the project. Perhaps if we set some expectations upfront on how many hours we expect people to dedicate - say 20 hours a week or whatever - then they know up front.
Quote:
Now, communication was also a big factor. At this time, all we used was icq/msn/aim and the forum, when it probably would have been smarter to go ahead and use a solution such as Skype or netmeeting. We also were unable to effectively have a meeting of any real kind because we could not set a specific time when all of us could be online (Different timezones). Now, we did try our best... but our lines of communication were very spotty and unreliable at best.
This will always be a problem. I would suggest that you just choose the best time and make it a regular meetimg time. Example Friday 9:00 am EST. If it is a regular meeting - people who can't actually make it, can still email their comments to the meeting moderator before the meeting and check the minutes of the meeting afterwards to see what the discussion was.
Quote:
Now, of the things that went right, the first thing was that we tried to keep it as simple as possible, but with our own little innovations to make it "ours". We went with a basic shoot-em-up type sidescroller that would not be too hard for the level designers to build, the artists to texture, or the programmers to program. We didn't have to worry about the game concept becoming too complex for us because of the limitations of the sidescroller genre.
We Also made sure to have a means of making the files accessable to everyone on the team via ftp, which is always good because it allows for anyone to work on/with any aspect that they needed to do their Job (In my situation it was getting the main scripts from the programmers to design the level around the limitations of the camera, things like that.). This was also nice because we could work something out, then post a demo for all to download and evaluate and effectively input on.
So these things sound like keepers.
Posted By: Juppp
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 09:03
Quote:
HOLY [censored] thats exactly what my team is doing! That script will definatly come in handy! Credit will be given as well.
Thanks alot!
McLaren
i think i need to cry :/ jk
Have fun with it !
if you give credit, remove "Leonardo" on top of each script, cause he hasn't done anything at all there, forgot to remove his name there.
Posted By: Ithicus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/01/05 16:56
hahaha!
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 01:49
Jamie_Lynn quote
Quote:
So then this goes back to what ARussell said - it might have worked better if you started with a design. That way all these eager beavers could have jumped in ... but into something defined.
Yup.
My original plan, was to give the experiment a dose of reality. I realized that many members were from different time zones and all of that. I think in retrospect I should have made the project much easier with less reality. Going through all the planning stages and all was probably not a good idea. If everyone had something to jump into from the beginning, it would have probably kept everyone's interest up. But how it worked out, it got to the point where basically a few old timers were doing everything, which totally defeated what the project was all about in the first place.
Anyway, like I said before, it is as much my fault as anyone's. I was expecting too much from the new members like I am used to with people I usually work with. I should have put the project together differently so evrything was up and running from the get-go.
Posted By: Jamie_Lynn
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 02:01
Quote:
I wasn't expecting to manage the project and I didn't.
I hope that you, or some of the other seniors that voluteered some of their time, will consider trying this again in the future. It would do the community some good, I think to see a project like this happen. (But I think whoever voluteers will have to have the time to manage the project for it to succeed and maybe that is asking for too much.)
Posted By: A.Russell
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 02:12
From what you've said: it got to the point where basically a few old timers were doing everything, which totally defeated what the project was all about in the first place
It sounds like you cold have bennefited from designating responsibility to newbie team members in relevant fields to the old timers.
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 02:22
Well, it's not that we didn't have lengthy discussions on management and all of that. Things just never came together. I just had to make the decision that not enough progress was being made and there was really only one active newbie. And it's not that I didn't manage things some. The interest just never seemed to be there to make it happen in a timely manner. It was supposed to be a fun learning project, but towards the end, it just didn't turn out that way.
Posted By: Locoweed
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 02:30
@ A.Russell
I had an intermediate or expert team member matched with each each newer member in each field. One expert Level Designer, one new level designer, etc.
I really think the project stalled because I had the team go through the process of deciding the game game type, style, etc. I should have had it all laid out so everything was ready to go. By the time the team had decided on the game type, and began the story line, etc, the newer members seemed to loose interest or didn't like what was choosen. Looking back at it now, I should have had the game choosen, concept art done, documentation ready, etc, then I think it would have gpne much differently. That way, the members would have known exactly what they were getting into and could have started immediately. As it turned out, the story line, which is pretty good actually, is still coming together, concept art is still in limbo, and all the newbies haven't been heard from in weeks, except for one, lol.
Anyway, I am not going to beat a dead horse here. Things just didn't work out.
Posted By: Juppp
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/02/05 09:38
oh well Loco
i always say.... "s... happens and the life goes on"
Posted By: Ithicus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/07/05 01:56
Same here Loco, becuase of time restraints. Maybe some other time me, Bilbo, and Tachys can try again. And this time, I will have everything lais out.
McLaren
Posted By: testDummy
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/08/05 05:52
@Locoweed
I wonder why you didn't simply drop the weak, newbie "slackers", gather "new blood" to replace them, and keep on truckin. After rinsing and repeating a few times, the "lazy", "half-arsed" newbies would have been weeded out, and you would been left with your small group of dedicated, dependable newbies. There's probably a little taint in every experiment. Just wash out the beakers.
You couldn't have really expected every volunteer to "stick". Some people will join anything at a drop of a hat.
Is it really fair to the newbies that invested their time, stuck with it and got their hands dirty, to let the unmotivated "bad apples" bring the project down. When necessary, a "leader" cuts and removes the cancer from the good healthy tissue, so that the group as a whole prospers. If the project had been spawned by a company, the "weak" members might have been quickly fired and replaced. A project's success as a whole can easily be more important than any of its members.
Teachers are leaders too. In class, when teaching a lesson, do good teachers let a few "bad apples" terminate the lesson completely, or are these few "bad apples" merely "left behind" or "removed" as a disturbance. You had stated that the project was an "experiment", but that implies that its purpose was to "prove" something. It might have proved that some do not want to learn or invest a significant time in that project. It also might have proved something about the "character" of the project's leader. I would rather have thought that the purpose of the project was to teach...to teach those that want to learn and to prove that when those that want to learn, do learn, and work hard together, they can succeed.
Code:
tryToTeachAgain:
try {
teach();
} catch (UnMotivatedStudentException _umse) {
drop(_umse.getStudent());
goto tryToTeachAgain;
}
Posted By: Ambassador
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/08/05 06:27
Code:
tryToTeachAgain:
try {
teach();
} catch (UnMotivatedStudentException _umse) {
drop(_umse);
goto tryToTeachAgain;
}
NEVER use goto if possible... That is what I learned from a C++ coding book XD.
i agree with testdummy 100% i would of even joined this experiment team if i had the chance
Posted By: nunofontoura
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/10/05 22:03
@Silent_Assassin: No, you wouldn't. Unless you would love have no oppinion at all (except for the minor things), have a ditactor as a "manager" who complains all the time and point no directions at all, stay stopped for 2 weeks waiting one people works in its "original" story (which, btw, was already filmed, and it was named "mad max"), then you'll love to join the "experiment".
Well, you would love to join the experiment, too, If you want just to wait for the game script - after all, nobody could help our writer (pulitzer prize winner), or point some problems with the story. You would love search the forum threads and think: "oh my god, they didn't move one step forward with this?". But, maybe you would prefer to chat with the godfather in the msn and read from his: "the story is fine, the game story is almost ready, we are not stuck on this, everything is just perfect".
But I think I know what you would love the most: see, when the project finishes, some irresponsible messages, point the "damn newbies" as the real responsible for the failure of the experiment. Kennedy was shot; let's blame the driver.
This is ridiculous.
I know what I did right and wrong in this project. One thing I didn't do: I didn't put my mistakes on other people's shoulders.
I swear to god I will not write in this thread again. If you - no just you, Silent_Assassin, but everybody who belived in godfather's words without listening the both sides of the story -, if you, I repeat, want to belive in this, fine to me.
But, one advice. Always be aware of someone who talk bad things from other people behind their back. Just because he has 120 000 posts is he right? This is a fallacy. Argumentum ad verecundiam.
Posted By: fastlane69
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/10/05 22:47
Asssuming that nunofontoura was part of the experiment, he has conclusively proven that:
"No good deed goes unpunished".
"Damned if you do; Damned if you don't".
"Between a rock and a hard place".
And all those other cliches that basically point to an ungrateful population of newbies who
"Want their cake and eat it too".
I had nothing to say about this until now. Loco tried and failed; he said that his major mistake which was to let the crowd control the project and not having more prepared work done up front. This is him owning up to a failure in leadership BUT NOT him saying that it was the newbies faults. And it makes perfect sense. You NEED a dictator in charge of a project...you can't have 10 diffrent people with 10 diffrent opinions about how to make ONE game....that's why most project have ONE Game Designer.
So who do I believe? Loco of course. Why? Because nowhere did he blame the newbies like you allege for one and your post is a truely pathetic display of lack of class and gratitude.
In the past, Loco has tried and succeeded; his MP tutorial is still the defacto introduciton to 3DGS MP. Here, he tried and failed. Which is more than I can say for all the rest of the whiners on this board.
And this is the gratitude he gets? I truly hope that you speak only for yourself, nunofontoura...I don't want to believe that the rest of the Experiment were as ungrateful as you!
Posted By: bupaje
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/11/05 00:20
Well, I just cruised by and it is not in my nature to get into public disputes (unless it pushes one of my 9 my hot buttons
) -this really doesn't but I'll say this ...
1 - nunofontoura -and everyone else- speaks only for themselves.
2 - Loco gets nothing but thumbs up from me
3 - Mad Max? Not unless there was a version 3 that included aliens. People tossed around suggestions like post apolyptic world, wasteland, protectorate and I did my best to throw them in the stew and spit out a basic but original concept -while also taking into consideration the scrolling platforms and what the modelers and programmers would have to do - to the best of my ability and limited time. I am wholly responsible for any innane ideas, grammatical mistakes and meandering thoughts -so don't even think of giving Mel Gibson the credit!
As for the rest -peace, love and happiness! I am always amazed when people are ready to go to battle for little things! Loco had a good idea, he tried, some others tried to differing degrees, it didn't work but no noobs or veterans were killed in the process -so what's the big deal? I also learned a few things from the experiment so let's focus our energies on more productive things.
I'm back to my homework now. Be good and play nice.
Posted By: fastlane69
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/11/05 01:04
It's just frustrating to have "kiddie" forum members treat solid contributing memebers like that and its a big reason why 3DGS gets the "kiddie" reputation it does and why people are leaving in droves.
Like you Bupaje, I had left this thread be until that one post just broke me. I figured he spoke for himself and I just wanted Loco to know (although I"m sure he hears it enough) that his efforts are appreciated and whether they succeed or fail, we all learn something in the process.
Posted By: bupaje
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/11/05 03:10
I hear you. I love this forum and guys and gals that so freely give of thier time and talent. Loco is certainly one of them.
Posted By: Spider_Man
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/11/05 16:59
yes , Loco speaks straight and honestly always .. he is a very dedicated person and you can feel it when you work with him really.
Posted By: Juppp
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/14/05 12:27
Quote:
@Silent_Assassin: No, you wouldn't. Unless you would love have no oppinion at all (except for the minor things), have a ditactor as a "manager" who complains all the time and point no directions at all, stay stopped for 2 weeks waiting one people works in its "original" story (which, btw, was already filmed, and it was named "mad max"), then you'll love to join the "experiment".
Well, you would love to join the experiment, too, If you want just to wait for the game script - after all, nobody could help our writer (pulitzer prize winner), or point some problems with the story. You would love search the forum threads and think: "oh my god, they didn't move one step forward with this?". But, maybe you would prefer to chat with the godfather in the msn and read from his: "the story is fine, the game story is almost ready, we are not stuck on this, everything is just perfect".
But I think I know what you would love the most: see, when the project finishes, some irresponsible messages, point the "damn newbies" as the real responsible for the failure of the experiment. Kennedy was shot; let's blame the driver.
This is ridiculous.
I know what I did right and wrong in this project. One thing I didn't do: I didn't put my mistakes on other people's shoulders.
I swear to god I will not write in this thread again. If you - no just you, Silent_Assassin, but everybody who belived in godfather's words without listening the both sides of the story -, if you, I repeat, want to belive in this, fine to me.
But, one advice. Always be aware of someone who talk bad things from other people behind their back. Just because he has 120 000 posts is he right? This is a fallacy. Argumentum ad verecundiam.
funny stuff...
well, I have to agree with fastlane 100%, i enjoyed it as a programmer, i learned alot new things in that short time, even if it failed. Expecially the script, i liked it alot :P Was fun to improve it every day, and i think it's already a good small example for newcomers to use.
Working together with Locoweed is always a pleasure. Doesn't matter to me at all that this project failed. I know he is decent :P
Posted By: Ayrus
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/14/05 15:34
I agree with Jupp and Fastlane 100%. Even though it failed, I learnt something from it as well.
Quote:
No, you wouldn't. Unless you would love have no oppinion at all (except for the minor things)
And that, that is just plain funny, we had a poll that we ALL voted on to choose the game genre, Burt and myself were throwing out storyline ideas and trying to get input/ideas.... there really was no "dictator" per say and because of this, I think that there was too much freedom, causing things to lag behind and slowly falter.
Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Wiz
Re: Experiment 3DGS - 11/15/05 21:24
There is a very good reason why no professional studio assembles a team before the complete game design is finished. A single person must first have an idea, and then share it with other(for example on a forum). Then shape the idea into something producable. Only when this work is done you can see what team is needed and on what timescale it is possible to make it.
People should also be willing to sacrifice a lot of spare time before applying for a project like this. Maybe we could get a discussion going on what type of game the community wants and then assemble a team when we have clearly shaped the idea.
If you make another go at this I would be most delighted to participate.