Action RPG

Posted By: Van_Railey

Action RPG - 12/28/05 06:04

*If you don't care to read all of this just the important parts just read the parts with "#" next to it.


First off before I talk about the game I would like to give my apologies to the lead producer of Romac Studios. I was a 3D modeler for the game Action Bird a long time ago, but I eventually quit do to a hobby of creating a 3D Modeler, which I know it can be quite irritating for team members to quit on the project, which if you have a request for any models, I will gladly help you, plus my modeling skills have improved since then. So far I just helped a guy called Pierre to develop a 3D Modeler called PPModeler which I currently use for modeling. I also apologize to the screen name of "Creature" for not responding to your private messages. It's just that I haven't been to this website in a long time, its best to email me.

O.K. now to information about the game.

# The game is named Ultraus Of Domination, which will be an off-line Action RPG in hopes to someday being an MMO-Action-RPG. I wanted this project to initially be a massive multiplayer online game, but I have no experience in making this type of game, maybe if there was someone that could help me with this to make it possible, but I'm still set on making the game off-line first, so the game can have off-line and online capabilities. After the game is made and published everyone will receive an even pay on their contribution to the project. And after the MMOARPG is made everyone who contributed and contributes to the project will receive an even pay.

# The team I need for the game is at least:

1) Producer- A person with a Pro. Edition of A5 or A6 Engine to assemble the game so you will need general knowledge of making a simple game by yourself, such as in the 3DGS studio tutorial.

1) Menu Programer- A person who can program the game menus and user interface.

3) AI Programer- If you can program the smart movement of enemies on land along with in the sky.

2) Action Programer-
If you can program player actions along with a level up system.

1) Event Programer-
If you can program event entities to trigger certain action such as cut screens or other functions relating to this matter which will be detailed later.

1) Particle Programer- Program various particles for magic attacks and machinery.

1) Sprite Designer/Animator-
If you can make a sprite along with animation to go with it.

2) Concept Artist-
Drawing skills with fantasy environment, and or characters, color will not be needed.

2) Texturer-
If you have experience with making and applying textures in MED.

2) 3D Modeler-
Being able to make models from concept art and (not necessary) make up models from scratch.

2) Level Designer- This game will have a big world, so if you have the skills to make fantasy colossal land scrapes with textures along with fantasy buildings with textures.

2) 3D Animator-
If you can animate characters and other objects for MED, along with frame names.

3) CGI Animator-
You don't need to have to have knowledge of MED but you do need know how to make movie animations and render them to an AVI output, which some sequences will involve war scenes. These animations will involve complex animations, so team work of this field will be of essence. I would advise a free animator (such as anim8or) so this job field team can work together easier while one renders the scene.

1) Sound Effect-
If you are able to make sound effects of various noises into WAV format.

2) Musician-
If you have a band or if you can make a few songs with at least a Yamaha piano with an Acid Music Mixer software or nice sounding music with a music match type software. (All of these are just examples the point is if you can make nice music and put them in a WAV format.)

1) Website Designer-
If you can make a website to upload certain types of data and game information.

Total of 27 Members.

# All members will be required to download AIM so the team can associate with each other and work as a team. I tried to separate the jobs into small fields of concentration or shall I say a smaller field of concentration so no one is pounded with multiple jobs. So mainly all you have to do is concentrate on mainly one aspect of the game, but if you have any suggestions about certain aspects of the game then we can discuss it as a team. In order to be in part of making a game I guaranty that each one of us played a game before and know some ideas of how the game can be made better.

# If you want to join the game development team just send me an email with the subject being the job field that you want to join at Elijahray@AOL.Com and maybe some of your previous work if possible or at least what you are experienced at and what you believe you can do.

Just to say if you are a "newbie" at the game development field but you are good at what you do, then I'll help you fit in, because I believe I lot of people underestimate newbies new at making a game. If you are at least experienced at you job field but never created a game, you're in!

# When I receive your email I send you information about the game such as game features, story line, and a test level with a screen shot. I don't like to just propose a game and not have any data are information backing it up so I made a simple test level with one character model I made and one enemy I made without any textures or animation and put them in a simple made boxed-in level while also having a screen shot of the level. I made this level in just less than an hour, so I can just imagine with a large team, what could be done in just a month's time.

My strongest profession is 3D Modeling (you can view my models at PPModeler.Com in the "Work" forum under OmegaUltraus). I know how to texture, animate, design levels and have a little bit of knowledge of programing. Literally, I have enough knowledge to make a game on my own, but I know some say its very difficult to make a good game by yourself, let me be the first at least one of the few to say that if you have a game just as 3D Game Studio and you know all of the aspects of making a game and know how to do them well you can make a good/great/or absolutely terrific game, but it would be vvvvvveeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy time consuming. Which by the time you get finished with the project 3DGS would have already made an A9 engine. This is why I truly encourage team work and encourage the members to get AIM to easily work with each other.

I found out in my programing class when I was programing in Java, that my team would be one of the first ones to finished when we worked together by piecing our codes of program together instead of doing what everyone else did at first. Worked on one computer and tried to make the whole program and analyze all of the errors of the whole page compared to me and my teammates just fixing the errors on a part of the program then combined our codes when finished. I did a similar method in my animation class with lightwave and finished earlier than others almost all the time.

# So if you see a job field with 2 or more people required for the position than you all will be working together (most of the time, depending on the field) on one thing at a time. Believe me when I say it will go a lot smoother this way. In some cases you may feel like you're doing nothing, but in the end game result you will see how much you've truly helped to due.

# I will start accepting portfolios as of today but the game development will start on January 1st.

PS
Sorry for the length of this message.
Posted By: FoxHound

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 08:42

Let me get this straight. You can't finish a project yet you plan to lead 27 people on a project you have little understanding of all in the idea that they will be paid when the job is done.

Next time LocoWeed passes something your way, just keep on passing it ok?
Posted By: Ambassador

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 10:35

Man... if you are going to lead a 4 man team you are going to have problems, if you are going to lead a 7 man team you will have more than just problems, if you are going to lead a 10 man team it is going to break apart pefore you have even gatherd all of the members... if you are going to lead a 27 man team you are not going to get even 4 people working on it...
Posted By: FoxHound

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 15:46

So no problems then!
Posted By: Ambassador

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 17:22

optimist... XD
Posted By: Bilbo

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 17:25

in order to work properly people need motivation and as the great F.W. Taylor said (see the principles of scientific management) mans main motivator is money. im sorry but you willl not get a team of 27 people together especially if you have very little influence on these forums. the majority of us do not know you even if you have been a part of these forums for 3 years you only have 12 posts which shows how little interest there has been from you in the comunity until now :/
Posted By: Van_Railey

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 21:20

FoxHound Said: Let me get this straight. You can't finish a project yet you plan to lead 27 people on a project you have little understanding of all in the idea that they will be paid when the job is done.

*I don't know what you mean by wanting to lead 27 people and haven't finished a project. I was helping to develop a 3D Modeler called PPModeler for some time now. I announced that I would be doing this before leaving the forum.

Bilbo Said: in order to work properly people need motivation and as the great F.W. Taylor said (see the principles of scientific management) mans main motivator is money. im sorry but you willl not get a team of 27 people together especially if you have very little influence on these forums. the majority of us do not know you even if you have been a part of these forums for 3 years you only have 12 posts which shows how little interest there has been from you in the comunity until now :/

*Just to say, I bought 3D Game Studio 3 years ago, but my main focus was to do 3D Modeling for a game. I really never made post on this forum because I would just email the developer if I wanted to join. I mean if you can do something right then you can do it right. I really don't believe that a person should be posted judged on the amount of post they made. I think it should be judged on their talent. I mean just because a person have a thousand post doesn't mean they can really do anything, because I know a lot of the post that are made are mainly comments.

I've been helping to develop a 3D Modeler (PPModeler) for about 2 years. While making 3D Models for a game for about a year worth. Took a class for programing applications (which also involved making a few 2D games with programing).

I have to addmit, after being away from this forum for about 2 years, I've seen that the community here has taken some what of a negative turn. I've seen more posts be made to flame at people trying to start a game. Not to say that criticizism is bad, but to some it may be down-setting. I would at least try to incourage them on, maybe more project would get done that way with some positive motivation.
I will continue working on this project even if I have to do it alone (not to say I want it that way...LOL). I do feel that it will be a little difficult with a 27 man/woman group at first, but one thing people are good at rather they know it or not is adaption. It may be difficult at first since no one will know what to do, what to work, and how to cooperate. Eventually it will gradualy become easier once everything is situated.

I'm not trying to "Flame" at anyone, just make a settle point. (Which of course naturally their will be disaggreements.)
Posted By: TheExpert

Re: Action RPG - 12/28/05 22:30

It's not negative turn

some of us have lived some experiences , so we can give you some advices.

I've worked with 4 little teams ( 4 to 6 people max) to try to make games,
i had never finished one or seen one finished or a good beta with these teams :
why :

cau we do it for fun and during free time : it's not a real work ,
we don't work all day in it.
And in a team the members hav a real life , and sometimes they must leave
the project and yiou can't continue without some essential people ,
or the game will progress very slowly : it will take a year and not two , or more ...

That's not easy at all ,and finishing a real , complete game with good
graphics,animations,menus, gameplay , levels etc ...
believe me it takes lot lot lot of work , and you're not sure to finish it !

So 27 people , that's not realistic , you don't have a prototype or some
models and level to show, it's the beginning , so if you find some 4
people interested that work all weeks with you , it will be an
incredible start


just to compare (and laught a little )
Another people here wanted to make a game as good as GTA with 3DGS
the real GAT on PC is 100 and more people working 2 years to make it ,and working all the days fully 24 hours ,
so don't dream making it with 4 or 27 people in one year and working in it
soem hours per week
you'll need 4 years and in 4 years GTA San Andreas will be available for 5 Euros
on PC.

For MMORPG : anyone can have great free ones, that you and your team
will not achieve same quality or complete game :

http://www.gamengame.com/en/gametour/game_guide.php?game_no=1&game_genre=01

i've played it ; and graphics are professionnals; the game iis free
why would a play your 3DGS MMORPG , not as good and powerfull ??

some others :
http://www.gamengame.com/en/gametour/game_guide.php?game_no=14&game_genre=01
http://www.gamengame.com/en/gametour/game_guide.php?game_no=10&game_genre=01

Be original , see what will make people to play your game instead
of others, and be realistic 27 people ...
Posted By: OptimuS

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 01:15

he is right it is a negative turn ... I can even say I'm a little afraid to post in Showcase I because of those posts before 1 year I posted some screens of a level , a bar. I dont think there were people that didnt liked it but when I saw a post for a project that I recently started helping with ... those people almost were banned
and , to say about the number of posts and reputations & other things that makes everybody important here...I think only 3 people from this forum know me all of you may have seen my nickname somewhere but , have you seen something made by me ? Nope (you will :P soon) but that doesnt meen that I'm a newbie or I cant do anything. I have 300 posts and those were only from asking questions and expanding my knowledge.
Van Railey , I wish you luck with the team , will be hard to get 27 team members even when you are not gonna pay them , and , know that 3DGS is a powerful tool and can manage a simple Action RPG with a good graphics (simple for 3DGS :P not for the team that will make it )
and BTW , about :
Quote:

Be original , see what will make people to play your game instead
of others


graphics isnt everything game-play is !
Posted By: AlexGFX

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 02:01

Quote:

he is right it is a negative turn ... I can even say I'm a little afraid to post in Showcase I because of those posts before 1 year I posted some screens of a level , a bar. I dont think there were people that didnt liked it but when I saw a post for a project that I recently started helping with ... those people almost were banned
and , to say about the number of posts and reputations & other things that makes everybody important here...I think only 3 people from this forum know me all of you may have seen my nickname somewhere but , have you seen something made by me ? Nope (you will :P soon) but that doesnt meen that I'm a newbie or I cant do anything. I have 300 posts and those were only from asking questions and expanding my knowledge.
Van Railey , I wish you luck with the team , will be hard to get 27 team members even when you are not gonna pay them , and , know that 3DGS is a powerful tool and can manage a simple Action RPG with a good graphics (simple for 3DGS :P not for the team that will make it )
and BTW , about :
Quote:

Be original , see what will make people to play your game instead
of others


graphics isnt everything game-play is !



I have to say, while some of this is true, most is not. The times when people get flamed are usally the threads like this, with people wanting to make the greatest game ever, and not mentioning pay.... You'll never make a good game unless you're willing to take risks, and that risk is called money, no professional is gonna work for you on the hope that you might finish a game, no matter how good the concept or the story may be.

Personally no matter what i have posted in SC i've always got constructive and honest feedback, If i post something that totally sucks, I want the guys here to tell me, otherwise I'm never gonna push myself to make better levels, models, scripts, whatever the content may be. Yes, I will admit there are some user's that take it overboard, like the ones that say OMGZ THAT SUX! which i haven't seen for a very long time i might add.

Regardless, you can find constructive critism in everything, the people that posted here, were trying to keep him from making a mistake, and you have to admit wanting 27 people to work on a game that is you're dream for free is simply not going happen.

Try not to take things so personal, when people post stuff like this there intent is to try and help you, even while it may sound rude.

-Alex
Posted By: Van_Railey

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 09:40

HOLY CRAP!!! I've goten 19 emails relating to job fields, and 10 of them are programers. I was expecting more modelers, level designers, and animators, but not more programers. I thought I would have to crack the whip and do most of the programing....lol. All I need is a website designer and CGI Animators. I have 3D Animators, but no one wants to take the CGI Animator job. So if there is anyone who wants to take this job, please send me an email. Also, if it just so happens that anymore programers want to send in an application....well.. I guess I will accept you because I just want to see who really knows their stuff when it comes to programing. So far only 4 of them had 2D game demos or some other stuff to show off their programing skill. Also, someone said they could help with the management and had experience in the business field (I'll have to see about that), but he can also do 3D Animation.
I also had the liberty to have a mini team chat with some of the members which went exceptionally fast and successful Which is why it's very important to have the same instant messager amoung the team. Things are looking very swell at the moment. Well, January 1st is coming up, so things are about to get started. I was hoping that out of the thousands of people that own 3D Game Studio I could at LEAST get 27 of them. Thanks for the support.
Posted By: Ambassador

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 09:51

Well man keep us updated on this project . If you realy succeed in making it trough the first month this project could be fairly interesting...
Posted By: mk_1

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 17:46

Just some things that have been gathered in the past:

Quote:

MMORPG threads

You want to create the ultimate MMORPG which won't be like any other the world has ever seen? Well then, I'll give you some facts:

a) Acknex is an allround engine designed to fulfill the needs of every 3d game as well as possible thus being extremely flexible. It also means that there're several restrictions to level design and of course programming. Acknex (yet) uses an easy to use scipt language that was created mainly for single player games and therefor isn't really capable of handling a large amount of clients if you aren't a very good programmer.

b) There're different engine versions: Only the commercial and professional edition contain the multiplayer feature, commercial only up to four players and only the pro edition can use a dedicated server. If you don't own a professional edition you have to buy it and it's not that cheap.

c) A MMORPG costs a lot of money. You need a lot of pc's to test your game, servers on which you can run the game and of course a lot of people. The game itself needs moderators and of course a game of that size needs a lot of manpower. Most guys here have a full time job and use Acknex for fun. Don't expect to find someone that sacrifices four or more years for a project that might be canceled due to financial problems or a small team that just has no progress. Work has to be paid.

d) Multiplayer programming requires a lot of skills. The programming architecture is a lot different to single player games. It's not more difficult but different and the loss of time to optimize your code is very high. Only a few on the forums know the insights of multiplayer programming and they're working on their on projects. Again you'll only find someone if you pay him.

e) If you still believe you can afford the money, the time, the stress that'll come with development one last thing: Do you really think you've planned your game enough to finish it? Do you have a design document that contains a detailed description of the game including story line, gameplay and the like? Do you think that this game will be really worth the money you put in it?

However I wish you luck with your project.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At all: Please save this text on your hard drive and post it whenever there's need of it.


Posted By: OptimuS

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 18:21

dont be so pessimistic , wish him luck and try to help him if you can instead if you dont agree with me , what exactly are you doing in this forum? (because it is what it is...for learning , helping & get help :P mainly...)
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Action RPG - 12/29/05 18:28

..Another announced project that will not be finished,
probably not even started in a right way.

How about you plan to make a more simple Singlyplayergame,
like a Diablo style or such?
Get a little working demo together that demanstrates the gameplay
and then search for 1 or 2 others with the same interest.
And look up that risk-management thread in general-topics.
Posted By: Van_Railey

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 00:08

Things are going to get started soon. So you all will eventually see how things go. I'll post updates of what happens and what doesn't happen. Time will eventually show how this story unfolds.
Posted By: light_mystic

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 00:35

Hello,

I can start your project off to a great start! But good things don't come cheap! If you want professional Level Design seek no further! Check out my signature! Got money? We can make your project look very nice!

-Paul
Posted By: DarkShadow

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 08:04

Hello All,

Firstly, Light_Mystic - Your team does awesome work, i've checked out your site, and i'm sure that when someone with no skills and plenty of money comes along, you will get some business, but please stop plugging your services in every Jobs offered thread. Some advice though, have your teams take a little time, explore some other tools, and when they're ready, start advertising your services on a more widespread level across the web. I also advise advertising a wider variety of services than just game related, that may bring plenty more business aswell.
Now, to business...looks like i'm going to be the producer of this game. I'd like to say that as a legitamate producer/project manager for the military, you guys are right, it often is difficult to keep your teams motivated, especially when you yourself need motivation, the best way to keep yourself and your team motivated is to keep things organized on all levels so that you can see when progress is being made, rather than looking at a great big jumblef**k. If you do well with this organization you can show your team that progress is being made and give them good words and encouragement, there's a saying that a happy worker is a good worker, if you do your job right as a leader, putting a good feeling into someone will do bigger wonders than just throwing money at them. This is particularly true in the case of quality of work, you can throw all the money you have at someone, but if they don't feel good for whatever reason, they're not going to put much care into the project at hand. Another way to keep people happy and motivated when you're on a budget is give small incentives, such as gift certificates or something free, it doesnt have to be much, just a way of saying thanks for the work you're putting in, do it randomly so your workers wonder when or who will get them, and take care not to FAVOR ANY WORKERS OVER OTHERS, this will cause the ones that never get rewarded to feel neglected and want to quit or put out bad work. Maybe these are things that noone has tried here before, but coming from someone trained and experienced in these matters, believe me these techniques work better than you may think. Ok, At this point, some of you are probably wondering who the h*ll i am. My name is James, i'm 24 and i'm in the united states military, i work as a Communications and Computer Systems Project Planner, which basically means i manage defense communications projects. I've managed the completion of two projects totalling over 1 Million USD and am currently managing 3 other projects, USD amounts undisclosed. I have a 100% success rate on all managed projects thus far. As far as game development, i've been studying all aspects of game development since the age of 16, i'm most proficient with photoshop however i am skilled in level editing aswell(and no, 3DGS is NOT the only engine i've worked with). I once was strictly a programmer, however it's been several years since i've writting anything worthwhile, but i still consider myself competant, at least. I've been involved with two teams, I led one of them, Creatures of Habit, started by someone who gave me a chance when i was a newbie and inspired me to get where i am now, he turned leadership over when he realized he didnt have what it took to lead, we produced some impressive content, however he didnt realize his impact on the team and when he left due to devotion to his college studies, the team fell apart slowly. Now, I'd like to tell you all why i've decided to join this project. Firstly, i read his post and determined that his words seemed intelligent enough that he is probably not some retarted 12 year old with a warez version of 3DGS. So then i did some research on him and found that he has been registed here since 2002, which tells me he's probably been laying low on the forums for some time, at this point i decided to believe his story about working on ppModeller. So then i e-mailed him and recieved some information about the game, i read through it and decided that even though i hate RPG games, this one seems to be very good and unique in many aspects. One thing that i base my opinion of a story on is whether it is closed to new ideas or if it's open to have new ideas plugged into it, and i see alot of room for expansion that can make this story even more unique. After considering all of these things, i can to the conclusion that this may be the project for me, so i joined. I remember back when it used to be relativly easy to find a team, now it seems people skim through threads and when they don't see $$$, they move on to the next one without even finding out what it's all about, it's a shame. That's all i have to say, i'm open for flaming so go ahead and get it over with.




James
Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 09:18

Quote:

Total of 27 Members.



Lol, this one is a classic. Good luck buddy!!
Posted By: mqws

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 09:19

when you make full this game to download ???
Posted By: mqws

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 09:20

maybe it is good game...
Posted By: mqws

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 09:20

do you full demo maked ???
Posted By: mqws

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 09:21

bye
Posted By: Ayrus

Re: Action RPG - 12/30/05 20:30

Please use the edit function as it makes it easier to track and read through a thread.

Regards,
Ayrus
Posted By: Van_Railey

Re: Action RPG - 12/31/05 09:00

Well I have a person to make a website so things are about to put to where others can view it, while at the time I'm busting my knuckles to the start from scratch, programing the basis for the game. I sent the other team members just a simple little test level with a character and enemy that I modeled and put them in a simple level with the character having inhanced movement ability. It was mainly to show that I know something about putting a game together in 3D Game Studio. Since right now I'm getting the information prepared for January 1st, development should move along faster afterward, but like I said before you will all be updated with the information of progress (whether it's going well or not). Hopefully that information could help other game project leaders with a little bit of information on what to expect.
Also, no thanks light_mystic. You have talent, and I believe you would do an excellent job but the others have aggreed with the terms. While it truly wouldn't be that fair (in my oppinion) to give special treatmen to a selected member. I plan to do a lot of the work for developing this game, because making a game is as fun as playing one to me. While I would like the help of others (up to 27 positions) I don't want this to feel like a full time job to other based on the aggreement. So, I'll ask for just enough to help move the project along faster. So I'm off because I have some work to do.
Posted By: laethyn

Re: Action RPG - 01/20/06 17:26

January 1st Start date. It's now January 20th. Has anything begun? an update? There been any forward movement?
Posted By: DarkShadow

Re: Action RPG - 01/25/06 02:51

Currently the team is working material for the design phase, for a project of this size, this phase may well last quite some time. MY main goal as the producer is to complete all or most of the design work and set our sites on a one level/zone demo, this being to showcase our work and gain critisism before we move too far into the project and also to give the team a sense of accomplishment that progress is being made and motivating them to continue pushing forward. Indeed, there are people who are curious to see whether this project will succeed, i cannot predict the future, but i will continue my job as an organizer,mentor and motivator and i will keep you informed, however it may be some time before we have anything to physically show you all, theres alot of designing yet to do. Thanks for the inquiry, keep any questions you all may have coming, and if anyone is interested in joining the project send me a word or two and i'll talk to our leader to see if we have room for you.


Thanks,

James
Posted By: fastlane69

Re: Action RPG - 01/25/06 06:33

Quote:

Indeed, there are people who are curious to see whether this project will succeed,i cannot predict the future



Sadly, I can.

If there is one piece of advice that comes up time and time again on every single game development forum it's this: Start Small.

If there is a second piece of advice that comes up on every game dev forum it's this: Design the document and then hire the team

By virtue of the original post and the gross violation of these principles, I can tell with about 98% accuracy exactly where this project will end up if you don't scope down right away.
Posted By: DarkShadow

Re: Action RPG - 01/25/06 15:49

Well fastlane,

i've been around this forum and others long enough to know that what you say is true, however as a member of the team and as a leadership role for the team i have to hold the mentality that we will succeed, while instilling the same mentality in the rest of the team. As far as design goes, the creator did have a large chunk of the design document completed, what we are doing now is going through the process of drawing concept skeches, deciding how we're going to structure the actual code, Deciding on styles of music, etc. Our leader seems to have the basic idea of how to design a game, i'm here to organize, mentor, motivate and keep the team working togethor. i'm also the one who will be compiling the teams efforts into the actual product, adding and tweaking what i feel is needed. As sort of a jack of all trades, I'll also be assisting the team in production of assets if they get overwhelmed. Case in point, i agree with what you see, but my role in the team is to maintain confidence, so i will continue my efforts and keep this forum informed.


James
Posted By: fastlane69

Re: Action RPG - 01/25/06 16:24

I'm not trying to flame your project, but merely impress upon you that you have way too much Risk to realistically succeed at this project the way it's being handled right now.

If you are taking the role of the Producer and you believe that my words are true, then I urge you to use your powers and follow my advice:

1) A big chunk of the GDD is not a complete design. You should have every section of a GDD complete, even if in outline form, before you hire even one person on the team. Worrying about how the code is going to be laid out is an Implementation routing, not part of the Analysis and Design phase that you are under and betrays how unprepared or un-organized you are from day one.

2) There is no sense hiring 27 people at the beginning, especially without a fully fleshed out design. Start with a few core people doing programming and artwork and then build up from there. This idea of mass-hiring of people have sunk many a game dev studio with actual budgets. As this is a pay-after-publish project, you'll have even larger problems.

3) Managing a remote team is worlds different than managing a military project. People that sign up for the military have a natural team mentality...someone leads, I follow. People that do game development have a natural rebellious mentality...someone leads, but why should I follow? Keep this in mind for while you have had success in the military, this can acuatually be detrimental to managing a game dev team.

4) Read "The Game Producers Handbook" by Dan Irish to get a feel for what is expected of you in a game development Producers role.

5) Follow established Software Engineering practice. I recommend following the Cascade non-iterative approach for now which means you do Requirements, Analysis, Design, Implementation, and Testing in that order. Do this for the demo (NOT the full game) to get a feel for what you are up against and to give you team members experience in working together and the confidence you so desire.
Posted By: DarkShadow

Re: Action RPG - 01/26/06 15:21

Fastlane, I realize you are not trying to flame this project, i have a tendency to seem cold or serious all the time, which can be taken different ways by different people, it's just my way. I wanted to make some comments regarding your last post.


1. True, no comments

2. There arent 27 people, at least not on my list, we have 9 i believe.

3. You'd be surprised how mistaken you are on this point, military project managment can be more brutal than civilian project management, exception is that we don't directly control the budget of a project, but we can affect it. In my office there is constant bickering just between the project managers. It get's really nasty when you start trying to work with the other workcenters in our unit. Let me give you an example, I'm an E3(Airman First Class), one of the lowest ranks in the military, sometimes i'm required to task other people or units to do things for my projects, these people might be E7's(master sergeant), O3's(Captain) even all the way up to O6(Colonel). Usually these people don't like that fact that they are being told what to do by someone extremely junior in grade to them, therefore they rebel and do everything they can to not do what i ask even though they know that they are supposed to because of the aurthority granted by my title. The job requires you to learn how to sweet talk people into thinking they want to do what you want them to, as opposed to telling them they have to do it.

4. I ordered the book, thanks for the recommendation.

5. In my job i'm VERY familiar with this approach as this is how we work ALL of our projects, however i'm not really sure how to apply it to game dev as this is my first time playing the producer role for a game, but i'm sure the book will help explain this, so thanks again for the recommendation.

Anyway, at this point in time i cannot see telling the team "sorry guys, go find another project, this one's not ready for development", nor can i see telling them "sit tight for a couple of months until we get this design document completed". What i can see is getting all team members involved and working as a team to complete the design document and all necessary parts of it. This may require quite a number of online conferences, but it would allow us to weed out those who arent even willing to put forth the effort to talk in a chatroom. Plus it would allow everyone to gain a thororgh understanding of the project prior to developing it. Most importantly, they wouldnt feel like they are working on someone else game because they're putting thier own ideas into it aswell, this is actually the way many large companies do thier design, not necessarilly everyone working the design, but everyone inputs into the brainstorming. Well, i thought i had more to say, but i seem to be drawing a blank now, if i think of anything else i'll let you know.



James
Posted By: laethyn

Re: Action RPG - 01/26/06 15:29

In the meantime, I've found on past management projects that if everyone truely is losing interest during this critical point, have the modelers start working on some generic stuff (ie cats, dogs, cows, birds, etc.) Have the scripters start throwing together some mini-scripts (dynamic flames/lights, little particle effects, etc)

Stuff that can be done at any time, yet is standalone enough to be able to plug in to the overall code. Keeps people feeling like they really ARE moving forward.
Posted By: DarkShadow

Re: Action RPG - 01/26/06 16:08

Well, currently i've got my modellers working on concepts, which it is pretty convenient that both modellers draw thier own concepts. My programmers are working on generic scripts such as blood, particles, etc. Level designers are working concepts for the environments, and the music guy is creating samples to determine what types of music we think will fit with the project, aswell as misc sound effects. Really that's not the issue, the problem really is that without a solid design for the overall project, it will never get farther than creating small misc stuff like this, the project will collapse and the team will be looking for a new, more organized project to join. This is what Fastlane is warning us of, unfortunatly i'm not sure how easy it will be to convince our leader that what we have for a design document is insufficient, if this doesnt go well, we may well be looking for a new project, hopefully not.


James
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