Trading Z3 with Ally Invest

Posted By: cwford

Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 03/20/20 16:07

Zorro newbie here. I live in the U.S. and wish to trade Z3 with an Ally Invest account. I have:

1. Obtained an Ally Invent account
2. Deposited funds into my Ally account
3. Downloaded and installed the Ally Invest plug-in (thanks to AndrewAMD)
4. Downloaded historical data
5. Run a TEST of Zorro/Z3 on my local machine. It works!
6. Created a VM in Azure
7. Installed Zorro with historical data on the VM
8. Run a TEST of Zorro/Z3 on the Azure VM. It works!

Now, I would actually like to start live trading from my Azure VM. I would like to trade EUR/USD but I am confused about the following:

1. What should my Z/.ini file look like? Do I need to make any modifications? Does anyone have a sample .ini file I could see?
2. What should my asset list file look like? Do I need to make any modifications? Does anyone have a sample .csv asset file I could see?
3. Just to test out Z3 trading, can I start with a capital allocation of $1000.00, or is that too little?

Thank you in advance for the courtesy of reading this post, and for any answers.

Clyde W. Ford
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 03/20/20 16:23

Ally only trades stocks, ETFs, and stock options. The Z3 system was designed to trade forex and CFD's - Ally has neither of these. You would need an all-original asset list with all-original historical data.

Also, it is not legal for USA residents to trade CFD's.
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 03/20/20 16:30

One more thing - when I wrote the plugin, it was originally for TradeKing's API. Then Ally bought TradeKing and kept the API open, but then Ally took on an anti-algorithmic-trader stance. They want to charge you $200+ per month for using their live market data per the demands of their data vendor, even if you're an indie trader.

If they didn't tell you up front, they will eventually inform you months later (as was my case), so I moved my funds elsewhere.

My advice: Either use IB for stocks/etfs/options/futures or Oanda for forex.
Posted By: cwford

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 03/20/20 16:58

Thanks.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 08/19/20 06:21

Hi @AndrewAMD,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but wondering if Ally would be OK for strategies like Z8 & Z9 that don't need live market data?

Or is the plugin outdated now & no longer maintained?

Thanks.
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 08/19/20 12:46

It is not possible to use the Ally plugin without acquiring market data from Ally.

I have personally abandoned Ally due to the $200/mo fee that they wanted to impose on me. They don't even have this fee documented on their website, which is ridiculous!

It's actually cheaper to use IB with an IB Pro account because of this fee.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/02/20 00:02

Hi @AndrewAMD,

I have pursued this a little further with Ally (why let a good plugin go to waste?!).

Ally says the only fee close to this is a real-time data fee (currently $120-$130/mo) the exchange charges when this data is given to "professional" customers - those who use the data for business, are Securities Professionals, etc.

Could this be what happened to you?

Thanks.
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/02/20 13:24

No. Non-professional vs professional is not the issue. The question is - are you an algorithmic trader?

I just pulled up the emails, and it's much worse than I remembered!

In October 2017, I received the below email from Ally:
Quote
Dear Valued Client,

Thank you for being an Ally Invest API user. Part of our responsibility of providing an API with Real-time data, is reviewing how the market data is being used. To help us do that we ask that you please take a moment to complete the attached questionnaire. Once complete, you can email the questionnaire to apiquestionnaire@invest.ally.com. If you have more than one application please complete a separate questionnaire for each application.

Please return the completed questionnaire by 10/16/2017, to avoid any disruption to your application. If we do not receive your completed questionnaire by 10/16/2017, then your API access will be restricted.

We appreciate your attention to this request,

The Ally Invest API Team.
Attached is the questionnaire. I filled it out, and obviously, I checked all of the boxes at the bottom.

They replied:
Quote
Thank you for your questionnaire! Unfortunately, based on your questionnaire, we are not able to allow you API access. This is due to your use of data in a non-displayed fashion:

Non-Display use of real-time market data is defined by the Exchanges as accessing, processing, or consuming market data for a purpose other than in support of the data recipient’s display. The Exchanges have recently begun to enforce this rule in terms of monthly fees to the user and fines to data vendors that offer data and are not monitoring how that data is consumed.

As a data vendor, Ally Invest must respect and enforce the rules provided by the Exchanges. After reviewing your responses to the questionnaire, it appears you are using market data in a non-displayed manner. Consequently, we may no longer be able to provide real-time market data to your application, which means we might need to terminate your API access. We are working on a solution that would provide 15-minute delayed data via the API, which the Exchanges would not charge for. Until that time, you will need to work with our API Business Development team to see what options are available to you. That team will reach out to you shortly. Please be responsive to discussing your situation with them so that we can attempt to prevent turning off your access.
The email then went on to describe all the monthly fees, which are thousands of dollars per exchange! I attached that pricing info as well in the zip file.

Attached File
Posted By: Morris

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/02/20 20:13

Thanks for sharing this, Andrew. That does sound rather grotesque. Ally appears to do everything in their power to drive good customers to competitors.

> My advice: Either use IB for stocks/etfs/options/futures or Oanda for forex

That's a good rule of thumb. Do you (or anyone else) have experience with IG? How do they fit in?
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/02/20 20:28

I cannot comment on IG, I've never used them.
Posted By: DdlV

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/02/20 20:40

Hi @AndrewAMD. I spent a bunch of time today on Ally chat with "Stephen". With his permission, the relevant parts of the chat are ("our team" is the API team):

Code
Thank you for your patience. I spoke with our team and confirmed that the data would be free now. There used to be charges with MBTrading for market data services, but these are no longer charged unless you are a professional user.
Stephen
- 8:11 PM
what's "MBTrading"?

- 8:12 PM
That is a trading platform that we were partnered with, but it merged with us around the beginning of the year.
Stephen
- 8:13 PM
ok. please let me recap to be sure i have the facts correct:
a) in 2017 market data came via mbtrading who charged for it and these charges were passed on to all users
b) in early 2020 ally merged mbtrading in and these charges no longer apply
c) unless the user is a professional
all correct?

- 8:15 PM
It is a bit more complicated regarding a), as MBTrading was a separate platform linked with us but, but correct, these charges are no longer applicable unless you are a professional user.
Stephen
- 8:17 PM
so as a non-professional user, i can trade via any mechanism, including api via 3rd party software, without incurring any data charges, correct?

- 8:18 PM
Correct. The 3rd party may charge a fee for this but we would not.
Stephen
- 8:19 PM


Does "MBTrading" ring any bells? If all of this is true and complete, Ally would seem to be a usable broker again... "usable" meaning no worse than the rest...

At least I have something in writing from them if they decide to try and charge me later...
Posted By: AndrewAMD

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/03/20 13:17

You are referring to market data fees. I was talking about Non-Display Use fees. Please reread my post and its attachments in their entirety.

I sent Ally another email yesterday:
Quote
Good evening, Richard,

Back in 2017, you sent me this email in response to the attached questionnaire, upon which, I immediately revoked my own API credentials.

I just wanted to follow up to see if the Non-Display Use fees are still applicable to the Questionnaire's scenario. (Non-professional.)

Thanks,
Andrew

Their response:
Quote
Thank you for the email! Yes, these rules are still in place. An API user cannot use the real time market data to initiate any calculations. Nor do we allow automated trading algos to use our API environment, the order is required to be placed manually.
Attached are the emails.

I strongly recommend against algorithmic trading with a broker that explicitly states that they do not allow automated trading algos.

Attached File
ally - q & a.zip  (59 downloads)
Posted By: DdlV

Re: Trading Z3 with Ally Invest - 09/25/20 05:49

Thanks AndrewAMD. Sorry about the reply delay. Appreciate your follow-through!

That's pretty cut & dry. So much for Ally.

Perhaps jcl should drop them from the manual? Or is there some reason to keep them around?

Thanks.
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