Shadows on none surfaces...

Sorry about the length of these posts....I'm articulate...I know it can be annoying....sorry...

You're right, but the problem with showcasing only WIP screens is you don't get the full picture (no pun intended..actually it was). The visuals I've discussed in this thread are what I've been wanting all along. What has been shown in screens is mainly my talent at achieving good to semi-good results with 3DGS implementation of lightmaps and some creative ways to USE old school blocks and BSP limitations to establish a visually appealing style. I know I could setup some fantastic stuff with per pixel lighting and projectors, but I don't want to fool around with worrying about compatibility with older machines (because a lot of my target still has them).

A lot of you probably think I hate shaders and change. I don't. I just have to worry about my target, and I have to find ways to do what I want without them. I think Matt's Sphere Engine is a great tool, and if you want standard shaders in your game then go spend the $40 and get it (this is an endorsement ). However, as much as I'd love to implement it, I can't given the genre I chose. I could be a jerk and REQUIRE that anyone who wants to play my game has to upgrade their equipment, but I'm old school, and I live by the mantra that it's the developer that serves the customer and not the other way around. I work with what my target has at this moment and won't play the jackass.

You mentioned compromise. I don't do that, so if this feature never sees the light of day, I'll have to abandon this particularly visual trick and rely solely on detailed blocks and/or models and proper skins/textures.

You also mentioned feedback. I don't get a lot of feedback. Most of my comments are from the same few users. I get A LOT of hits on my main game thread, but I get very few remarks, good or bad. This is somewhat disheartening at times, but I'm a big boy, so it doesn't get under my skin like it would if I were much younger or more "needy."

Regarding lightmaps....this implementation could be a lot better. I'm suggesting to beef them up to give them all the features and capabilities they're capable of that other programs have provided for years. Don't abandon them because AAA games still use them, and they still look better than the best per pixel light shader you can find. Let's be frank....we have a really crappy lightmapper when compared with other applications; thus our collective screams over the years to beef them up. I mean, can't we get a damn static spotlight finally? A real one? Not something I have to fake using invisible blocks? There are other wants, but those are found in any number of other request threads, including two or three of my own over the years. The pending release of A7 is the PERFECT opportunity to introduce a new lightmapper complete with ALL of the features and tweaks that it's capable of. Don't worry about performance (i.e. build times)....let US the user worry about that. But, for Satan's sake give us the luxury of a full featured lightmapper so those of us who prefer this can use 3DGS to make knockout lighting. As is, it's all right, but as you can find all over this forum, it could be much better.

I wasn't being harsh towards you, Pappenheimer. I was just ranting and trying to explain (overexplain) myself for the general audience. It's funny, I said I never compromise, but if you look at my latest post in my game thread, I use the word and in fact compromised on something.

I brought up shaders and lightmapping on my own. I was just going off on a tangent. I got a bit cranky (but not at you) writing that las post.

Anyway, I agree that this at least sounds like it should be easy to implement, but I don't know one way or the other. I guess we'll know when and if it pops up on a future beta list.

Those three flags can already be set through a shader. (I know, you're trying to avoid shaders), but this technically wouldn't be a shader, as it goes into the technique of the shader for compiling. Simly add these thre lines: example

Code:

---

technique whatever
{
    pass p1
    {
        AlphaBlendEnable = true;
        srcBlend = zero;
        destBlend = one;
        VertexShader = compile 1_1 VS();
        PixelShader = compile 2_0 PS();
    }
}

---

As I said before, I'm gone for 2 weeks (back 25th), so I can't test this, but this is exactly what he said to do. However, by looking at it, I don't think it'll work. Wouldn't it also be possible (though slower) to simply use a shader to draw the model with alpha=0;? Would the model not recieve the shadow even though its alpha is 0?

I don't know if it'll work or not. I'm sure the Wintermute's implementation of stencil shadows is going to vary from 3DGS; however those three lines are the key to getting this feature to work. I know we can add an effect of our own and getting that effect correct is one of two possible answers to this request.

The 2nd answer is having it hardcoded into the engine and available as a flag inside WED. Here's a real world example complete with unattractive behind-the-scenes pictures of a level that needs a lot of work :



Pretend that background is the background of the game level and everywhere you see green there is hidden geometry that closely matches the shape of the visible image. In fact the green is the hidden hull and pretend like there's a textured version that can be seen over this. Also, the green parts on that building are the possible locations for the player's shadow to appear; thus the reason why the hidden geometry has to match. The complexity of the hidden hull above this area doesn't really matter.

In WED, I would like to have a new flag and for every green surface, I'd like to be able to check that flag ON. Those green surfaces will be invisible, will not cast any dynamic shadows (if within the sphere of influence of a dynamic light..remember this is ultimately going to be pre-rendered or hand drawn, so any shadows will already be present); however the stencil shadow of any shadow casting models will render onto those areas if the lighting is setup properly for the shadow to cast in the direction of the green section.

I don't think this requires anything shader related or VS1_1 or PS2_0 type stuff.

The code below does exactly as those other three lines, and WITHOUT a shader. This is simply a material setup, not a shader. I simply added the two shader compiler lines above to show placement.

Code:

---

material mat_none
{
    effect = "
        technique whatever
        {
            pass p1
            {
                AlphaBlendEnable = true;
                srcBlend = zero;
                destBlend = one;
            }
        }
    ";
}

---

This is what he sid to do, so try it! If not then.... IDK. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he didn't give you enough info, maybe 3DGS is just different...

As much as I love to build with blocks (trust me, I hate building levels from models), in this scenario, I'm going to have to use models. The route I plan on taking will require me to use a different shader on the level, which is too slow with blocks.

I don't remember the exact method of applying this to blocks, but here's an idea:

Save thses lines into an FX file, ex: none.fx
Code:

---

technique whatever
{
    pass p1
    {
        AlphaBlendEnable = true;
        srcBlend = zero;
        destBlend = one;
    }
}

---

then, run this line of code in your main function:
Code:

---

Function Main()
{
    effect_load(mat_flat, "none.fx");
    ...
}

---

Without the manual, I'm not sure if my syntax/keywords are correct. I they are though, then this will apply the "invisible" material to all blocks with flat shading...