No startup window upgrade?

Having the startup window come up before your program even after you payed 200$ for the engine is kind of annoying. There should be an little upgrade you can purchase just to remove the screen.

You can remove it. If you have pro then you can use the -nwnd command line argument to prevent the start-up screen from appearing.

that little upgrade is called pro version.

main real diffrence between comm and pro is the startup screen and wrs packing.

I don't call 749$ a little upgrade especially when for that price you could just go out and buy torque or unity for 200$ and enjoy no start up screen.

torque is now 1000$

unity indie also has splash screen, doesnt have rtt and pp effects
http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses

You get what you pay.
If you think you don't get enough, search an alternative.

You can still use -nwnd durring the stage in which you are making the game, but
once you compile it the stat up screen will be back.

Haha, you can use it in Pro only.

ok..

first..
There´s a Info table on the Shop Site.. With all Editions..
There he could see wich version has a Startup Screen..

WHY.. was he buying the Edition with Startup.. if he wants no Startup?

No money? Why not waiting a bit longer to get some more money..


Sure it would be better to have a (example) 50$/€ Update to delete the startup for Commercial Edition users..

But.. if you thought about that before you buyed.. you don´t got the problem...

Won't happen. This owuld kill the selling rates of Pro version I guess. And Conitec has to make money with something so the easiest way is to put a limitation not only based on features. Most people here can live with the feature set provided by Commercial Edition.

i can live with it too..

i studied the info-table and chose the commercial edition. Later.. when i finish my games.. i will buy the upgrade to the Pro version, and compile it without any commercial limitations.

Like me. I'm making my COMMERCIAL game and I'm living with those limits.
When i earn enough money from it, i simply upgrade to Pro.

EDIT: Esper was faster.

actually, only reason for me to upgrade to pro would be the startup screen. i am happy with commercial edition.

Maybe you can bypass the starter window even in commercial.

Imagine making an exe in visual studio with winAPI which runs the game.exe from the path and then it creates a window without any titlebar, just an image of the game drawn on top of it and placed at the top list of active windows.. After the game runs, you could send a message to that window with SendMessage function from lite-c to terminate it in the window procedure of that exe made in visual studio.

It would be similar to the way some games show a picture of their own game in the desktop before it goes into fullscreen.

This might work, have not tried but I will do it now.

but, it is against the license agreement.

Oh, fail. Thought it would be listed as "clever usage of game mechanics" as Blizzard usually says about exploits in WoW

EDIT: Maybe it's not, maybe showing a lite-c logo is enough. Dunno, have to ask JCL about it

I will Upgrade to pro Version Ehen i want to compile the finished Game.
1st because of the startup window
2nd because of loading screens

the Rest of the pro Features are Not Important for me.

That’s weird. I have A7 7.80 commercial edition and when I type
-nwnd in SED's preferences the screen gets almost completely token away. It is still their but it reduces the startup screen time to maybe halve a second, and once I build the game the start up screen returns.

Fakely removed the startup window with commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMtgK2xanII

JCL, my question now is, is this legal? I've put the logo of both A7 and Lite-c, the company name and the info, also the homepage link.

It looks easier to read imo and looks more attracting. The method was just creating another window in WindowsForms, making it stay on top and making it uninteractable. Then send custom messages to engine with the HWND of the custom startup window. Once the engine could take these messages I just terminate the application in lite-c with WINAPI functions since I got the HWND by sending it.

Wouldn't that be considered a type of reveres engineering?

It is most likly illegal to do that or at least against the license terms, but I dont know if it would be if you got permission to do it first thoe.

There is no "type" of reverse engineering involved lol not even CLOSE, look up the term before you use it

It's basicly just a window that is always active untill the engine is launched, when the engine launches it retrieves the handle of the startup window I created and terminates it in the engine window procedure overwritten with on_message.

Basicly a while loop which keeps calling sendMessage(blabalblaa) to the engine window, and inside on_message, when it catches it once, it terminates the visible window. So no I don't see anything illegal here, it's the same as launching an internet explorer when you launch the game and the internet explorer window hides the engine startup window, and when the engine launches, you could terminate the internet explorer window with FindWindow function from WINAPI

Oh, ok sorry.

But I’m pretty shore that the licenses terms say something about that the original start up screen has to stay visible.

PS: I saw you video on you start up start it looks really cool. If it turns out that you can use it you have to tell me how you did it in better detail.

The original window is still virtually visible just not at the top list of active windows >_^ theoretically this is 100% legal if the license term is the way I remember, haven't checked it for a while.

the only bad thing at that window.. is that bad style..

shitty white with black letters and that logo at the upper right..

BAD


But.. shit happens.. the Engine functions are important.

indeed if that works this way, it seems legal, crious for JCL's input.

Yes..
If jlc gives his GO, it would be nice if someone can Code such a little window.

Esper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMtgK2xanII

guess he meant, if someone shares it as a cont. and that someone would be you i guess, if that gets allowed of course.

Yes, As a contribution...

Something like:

you compile your main.c/.wdl and put a Logo image and the window-Thing in that Folder. If you Start that windowthing, it uses the Logo and Starts the Game.

That's possible Esper. But very limited, you would also need a .ini file for the path of the game. Because the startup.exe would not know where the game is and what the name is, because all the startup.exe does is run a file by a given path and then retrieve the HWND of it, send messages to that HWND in a loop with the HWND of the startup.exe, as soon as the lite-c application catches it I can terminate the startup.exe cause it just retrieved the HWND of the startup.exe.

What if you wanted to have a button, or two. What if you wanted to have an animation of a logo. Or something moveing around in the window, custom cursor, music for background, sounds for the buttons. All these are possible in WinForms with .NET in visual studio 2008.

sample project could be useful in that case.(and code-snippet to use on lite-c side,if there is any)

Yeah, I'll wait for JCLs input first =]

Stealing my method Enduriel!!! LOL, joking... Its not actually that complicated to do this, and a contribution would be good.

This is how I figured out how to embed the engine into C#, and it works pretty well. But if all you want is a start-up window then its just a few WIN32 calls, and only a few custom messages.

I'm guessing this is legal, but JCL will probably say no anway, lol.

I wouldn't need this - but it would be cool if we could change the Startup Window - still a Lite-C or Gstudio pic, but one that matches better to one's game

As to the qestion if we tolerate applications that cover the logo with a window: Yes, when you either have the Pro Edition, or when the covering window also shows the logo. It needs not show the text.

hey that's great...

i generally also show a splash screen(Proud user of GameStudio ), so putting a logo is no problem. As long as we have a better looking, startup screen that fits the game more, logo and links is no problem i guess.

Great News
thanks jcl


Hmm
i don't think we Need Buttons, Links... Etc in a contribution window. I think a Simple Picture instead of a White plane window with loading Text, would Be helpful for beginners.
And Yes. Nothing to say against the A7, Conitec and Atari Logos above the Background picture.

That's what I asked a short time ago! It would be very nice if we could simply change this picture, it would be great - for sure a A7(lite-c)/atari logo!

Usually logos are kind of trademark and should not be changed (even not just some pixels).

it could be useful if Conitec/JCL could provide us with the various logo images.(larger than those on this page and the wiki)(A7 atari whichever needs to be shown on startup.)

I agree ... maybe as psd, so it could be better resized without quality loss.

Maybe they can provide a standard set of window definition files

*push*

Any new informations about that?? Because it´s still relevant for me.

You can download a set of logos here:

http://server.conitec.net/down/a7_logos.zip

uhm.. it´s not the logo...

i meant that bad( ugly ) looking white loading window at startup. Wnated to ask if someone is doing such a thing like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMtgK2xanII

you can do it as long as you include the logo and the url on the startup window, JCL said.

So yes, you can do what you see in the video.

if someone != me o.O

Don't see why people want to remove the logo (have seen this complaint for many engines). I plan to get the commercial edition soon but I am ok with the logo being there.

If anyone has played games using Unreal engine, ever noticed how those million dollar games using Unreal 3 are still showing the U3 logo at startup?

Yeah, promote Gamestudio if you can, at least in Commercial edition without any shame. You can later on upgrade to Pro and remove the logo.


The only question to JCL is, can we change few colors here and there for Gamestudio splash to make it "theme friendly"?

yeah that is the thing. We dont want to remove the logo logo can stay there and i would be actually proud to show that logo, but the startup screen is UGLY.

also it is allowed that you can change the screen if you keep the logo and web adress somewhere on the startup screen.

It´s not the logo. We want that logo to stay there. I always will show the logo in my own startup, when i own PRO Edition.
BUT..
That ugly white/Black/red is.. aweful..
And there´s no way to change the colors.. or to add an image as background. It´s just.. ugly!

That's a Pro only feature.

No offense, but putting such a simple but useful function like this in Pro only is just.... diabolical.
We don't want to remove the logo/homepage link, we just want to customize (changing the colors) the window.

(Just like what everyone said in the past posts)

agreed but tha fact that we want it that much, also shows y its a proe featurem they have to keep stuff to motivate us to get pro and they did that quite ok lol

You can actually do that with some additional programming:
see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMtgK2xanII
you can do this even with free version.

legality: JCL stated as long as you keep a clearly readable logo and web adress on the startup screen you can do that.

to legally remove the logo and/or startup screen completely you need a PRO version license.(and it is easier to do it natively )

Yes.. i asked many times if someone can do such a window for me.. but seems like no one knows how to do that. -.-

I'm still sending PMs to Enduriel but he still don't reply.

(Should I bump the PM again? )

yes...

See post #295569 here:


So, we wanna let the Logo stay where it is, even in the covering window. So he agreed ^^

I don't know how much Enduriel will be around, because he told me that he'll never come back to gamestudio. He's in love with XNA now. I got him hooked on C#, hehe.

Enduriel actually asked me how to embed forms and such in a PM, because he saw my easy scripter, so I sent him the code. It wouldn't be that hard for me to come up with a 'start-up screen hider', so if anyone wants it i'll have a go when I have some time later on today.

well.. we all want it problem with that is, not all members will follow the rules of keeping the logo on there, maybe warez users? idk.. just thinking here

actually endureil explained me in detail, how to do that, but first i have to ask him if he wants me to share it.

Well I can make it so the logo is always shown, you can position it anywhere you like, but it will always be there. How bout that?

Good!

And a predefined Background image, wich has to Be in the Game Folder ( so the window image changes if you edit that Picture )

The logo really isn't that bad, in fact I do like it. It's like a bragging rights, you get to tell anyone who plays your game you’re a proud user of Gamestudio. In the commercial version (I don't know about the others) you can still suppress the logo screen in development stage only with the -nwnd command. The logo screen is still there it just goes on then off practically, but once you compile your game or whatever your making the startup screen will be back to its original speed.
I also agree that the current screen isn't pretty at all.
It would be really cool if the engine developers added a feature where you can change it around with scripting.

Well, the situation is this. Changing the window with scripting is a Pro feature - I am just not allowed to put this in the lower editions. Only thing I can do is implementing a different look of the window for all users.

So I'm open for suggestions how to make the start window look more pretty while still displaying the logo and the startup text in it.

How about 'BMAP* window_bg' and 'VECTOR* logo_pos'.

Set window_bg to a bitmap definition to display it at startup. If it's NULL then use the default window. logo_pos can be a vector where a built-in logo is displayed at the specified position, else it's (0,0).

Not even that, I'm afraid. Unless you want me dead. The Conitec Marketing Departement would kill me if I'd put this in the editions below Pro.

Hmm well how about just replacing the default white window with a nice looking one. Personally I think some of the logos in the a7logos.zip look pretty good, so how about using ome of those instead.

Maybe something like this...



...Of course you would probably want more info on it, but i think it is much more appealing.

Maybe you could create a 'start-up window' contest.

I would also love to see a better looking startup screen. It's totally clear to me why you can't remove the startup window below Pro, but it would be great if it would look a bit better.

Only if I know the font's name:

yes.. something like that..
perhaps a background ( cause that grey-white makes me feel depressive )..

How about a few themed ones for different genres ?
And add a function to define the genre ?

Just a random idea i thought to throw in


Thanks,
Blade

I think JCL should just add the logo as a PNG (a large scaled logo in a PSD without any background, for better quality of course) basically like the one on the forum..



This way, users can change the background color to anything without modifying the actual A7 logo (which will become a problem for JCL).

I think this is what everyone wants. They don't actually want to change the colors of the A7 cube (which would be illegal).

Conitec already provide different A7 Logos, different themes, and different colours (which are legal to use)
If ya don't like em... buy PRO! Simples

Mr. Simples, I think you are replying to the wrong person (or just don't have a clue about what I posted).

why that? his reply made perfectly sense. also your post was not too long so that you could misunderstand anything. even though you definitely want something, flaming others is not the right way to achieve it.

if i was conitec i would maybe change the default screen, but letting everyone change the startup screen is giving away pro features for free.

Now, seriously, what's the font name?

Learn to scroll up and read other posts by users then. Also, learn the definition of "flaming".

My post was about changing the background color (which isn't the part of the logo). Really that hard to understand?

I'm pretty sure calling Mr Guest "Mr Simples" is insulting and thus is flaming. Although, that can easily be seen as a misunderstanding if you thought Mr Guest was concluding his post with his own nickname when he said "Simples".

All your post asked for was a bunch of logos, and then you implied that users already had the ability to change the background colour -- which they can, with Pro.

I think it is clear from Mr Guest's post that he thought your post was regarding showing a logo at the start of the game, as opposed to the built-in startup screen.

I can certainly understand everyone's desire for a different startup screen -- it isn't attractive. However, even before I had Pro the startup screen was the least of my worries by far.

As it is, it's pretty neutral.

Jibb

a) he was talking about color, too.
b) you were flaming him.
c) we all read posts. maybe you don't.

now I'll stop, because you shouldn't feed trolls, but that's really pathetic of you, ortucis.

Since JCL agreed on adding a different default startup screen, my suggestion would be a startup screen contest. That's always fun. What do you think?

I think flaming is pretty much what Joey is busy doing, he still has no idea what I was talking about (unlike you) and is still busy trolling and flaming me (Joey, scroll up and read comment #307650 please.. where I DID say something about purchasing pro).

Either way, I am not interested in flame wars here and have no issue with default A7 logo, so, good luck with that. Moving on..

Hiya



While I have no problems with it, my suggestion would be to make a specific program in, say, MED, that allows you to change text, background color, window shape (to pre-defined sizes), text location (left, center, right), etc. So, for example, if you are doing a "black-and-white film noir" style game, you could have the window have no 'boarder', make the background almost-white, the text black, the font Garamond and on the left, and the size to resemble the dimensions of a piece of paper. For a futuristic racing game, perhaps a wide and thin black window with gold boarder, light blue text color, centered, with some futuristic'ish looking text, and the text size a bit bigger and in italics. For the Pro folks, allow them to add a background image to the window, perhaps a drop-shadow, and transparency?

Anyway, the point would be to be able to change the general look via the engine. It would still be there, but at least having a very "programmer b/w look" opening to your historical medieval simulation could be remedied.

i like the idea of a startUp-Window-Contest. And i would make one for suh a contest ^^

Oh what fun it is to ride in a one horse open sleigh!

After using this, and many other forums, I still don't know why people get so defensive and read everything in the worst possible way it could be written...

I like it, simple, stupid, to the point! call it what you want, just not sympathetic... you won't get that off of me (maybe the smile will help) (2 to be sure)

referring to the Logo,

If you want unlimited players on a server, buy PRO!
If you want a distributable level editor, but PRO!
If you want automatic LODding, (yep you guessed it) buy PRO!

If you want to use shaders... buy >commercial
If you want particle effects... buy >commercial

But without going on too much, why not give the designer the option/ability to design his own StartUp Window, same as what was possible with A5 and A6 (possibly A4, never used it)

Pick from prerendered logos, choose from prerendered backgrounds, choose any font, choose any position, and even support shaders on startup (even though this'll be a no, as graphics are not yet initialised)

(nearly forgot the smiley )

then shhhh!

Is it possible for you to define five or so different start up screens (where as the one we have now is the default one) that we can tell the engine with scripting which one we want to use.
This doesn't allow non pro users to make their own start up screens or edit them in any way, but allows us to choose from a list of different ones.
Can your bosses at least agree to this?
Is still think the start up-Window-Contest is a good idea, maybe you could make it so the top 5 make it in.