The big Windows vs. Linux vs. Mac topic

Let it begin.

Here's where I stand: Linux is the ultimate operating system. HUGE free software library, all with the source code exposed (so you can make software that you KNOW will work on your rig) literally hundreds of distros, awesome terminal, great security, and the ability to choose what kind of GUI you want to use.

The only reason all of my computers don't use Linux is because 3DGS doesn't support it. I don't play many new games any more, just Doom, Quake, and the occasional Bio Shock (which I play on my Xbox)

If Microsoft ever releases DirectX for Linux (which is unlikely) then Linux will be the ultimate gaming platform, guaranteed.

HUGE open source free software library thing is not linux exclusive thing since you can get that source and compile it for win.

That's true, I didn't think about that. :\

One perk of Linux, though, is the ability to access software repositories through applications like Synaptic, so you can browse a selection of thousands of applications+libraries+games for your machine very easily. On top of that Linux has the ability to automatically update all the software on your PC in one command, which is pretty nifty.

both systems have their (dis)advantages. it's just a matter of taste and purpose after all, gamers are happy (more or less) with their windows, everybody else who knows what he's doing with his pc is happy with linux.


and those people who like it simple in every aspect are happy with macs. simple computers for simple people. also for the rich ones who can afford to throw a lot of money out of the window for something apple likes to call "design".

Here is my 2 cents on this whole topic. Before I get into it though, a few notes:
1) My front end systems are all windows or mac based (Win XP, Win Vista, OSX)
2) Backend servers are a mix of windows server 2003 and Fedora Core 10/11/12, (I have also worked with the following: mythdora/mythbuntu, ubuntu, debian, suse, asterisk linux PBX)
4) I enjoy all the OSes equally, they all have their place and their uses, and would never give up any of them for the world.

Now, having used and worked with all 3 systems and they each have their uses, their advantages and disadvantages. For front end systems outside of the home, linux is not adequate (And sometimes even in the home it isn't going to cut it). Its not the lack of features, the fact that it is open source, or anything else like this, its the fact that it is spread too thin. There are too many distros, too many different ways to go about setting it up, too many factions. Its a mess and a quagmire for a novice user to get into and start running with. Yes it is more secure, but thats because of security through obscurity (Only somewhat, in the server world, it is more secure than windows, its just that for virus makers, malware writers and such, its not profitable. Since it isn't profitable, they don't do it.

The Mac is a great system, if you are a multimedia fiend and need something that is very efficient. Problem with it is hardware lock in. You can't get a mac with no OS, or even windows installed, its not an option. I don't care who it is, vendor lock in is stupid and not worth the headaches.

Windows... ahh windows... it kinda gets a bad rap, some of it is deserved though, it isn't without. It has tons of issues, tons of problems, but how many of these issues are in other systems in different forms?? We don't know because vendors don't target other oses (There is no point since the other oses are such a small portion of the market), primary focus goes to windows. I have to say though, it is definitely the least secure and most targetted with good reason, but its not because the OS sucks. If the OS really did suck and linux/mac were better, then we would all be using those OSes on our desktops and not windows. Windows dominates the market for a reason, and it isn't because it was first. It has a certain something about it that relates to the user base. Ask yourself why windows is on the majority of computers out there (Even though it shouldn't necessarily be there).

Yes, with windows we could run around for days on end bitching about all its issues, but whats the point? Really, they are all here to stay, so, we can spend days, years (not like we havn't already), but nothing is going to change really...

Regards,
Ayrus

I could not even get Java installed in my Linux.

And I dont want to spend an hour to figure out the process.

Linux is for freaks, and not for the common public.
Thats why the usability standards will not reach
Windows usability in a near future.

And Mac/Apple is just too.. expensive and restrictive

One of the reasons Windows dominates the market is because the big dogs that release popular software (ie multimedia companies like games, music, art, etc.) are too afraid to move onto the Linux platform.

The second reason Windows dominates the market is the fact that nobody is willing to learn the better system, that is Linux. The trouble with the average electronics consumer is that he/she is unwilling to spend time to figure out his/her device before he runs off with it and loads it up with viruses. People like devices like iPods and iPhones because they are so simple to use: they don't need to read that darn-ol' instruction manual. They don't have to educate themselves about it's features and abilities: it's all there in one button, and it does everything they need it to do, no questions asked.

Now, this would be fine and great, but the trouble is: computers are complex, you do need to learn how to use them before you run off with them, and you must be responsible enough to maintain them and keep them from wearing down, or it will not function.

Now, I am definitely not in favor of trying to turn the PC into some kind of elitist tool that only trained experts can use: many times, simplicity is a good thing. (hence the large number of GUIs that have been developed on top of Linux) But too many companies like Apple and Microsoft like to project the idea that your computer is nothing more than a pile of bolts that does whatever you want it to do, no problem. Ok, they admit that viruses are trouble, but with their automatic "Defensive System" it's no problem... Really!

Like I said, computers are complex machines. Your manual (and the online community) is your warranty: use at your own risk.

The Linux community, unlike Apple and Microsoft, understands these things and the Open Source community actively produces great, free software that can help you run your computer efficiently and safely... If you take the time to learn it.

Yeah, change is a painful process that many people are just not willing to endure. But sometimes, change is for the good and unless you want to stay where you are, you have no choice but to work with it.

I cannot tell you how many times my Dad has had to re-setup our main Windows family machine. He would use the best firewall, and he even setup two outer firewalls, but year after year we got hit with viruses. Eventually the computer would just hit a point where it was unusable, and we would have to start the process all over again. We have many other internet enabled PCs in our house, all with Linux on them, and we've never had these problems. So just now my dad has finally made the switch on our "Windows" machine, and so far it has worked like a charm.

Wrong logic: a system is not better, just because its more
complicated to use.
Linux actively tries to hinder casual users to operate it.
Even installing normal programs requires weired command-line inputs. Althoug a simple graphic installer would be written in
a few hours. (even minutes)
There is no logic reason to do so.
There is no reason to (require to) use command-shells at all!

The system has simply less viruses, because virus programmers
want to target the more popular platforms (Windows),
and there are more Windoes platforms that can spread the viruses.

You could use an Amiga, and are perfectly save from new viruses.

Ah, that's why Linux rules in the mobile phone, tablet PC and all kinds of consumer hardware (TVs, set top boxes, navigation systems,...) markets. Because it isn't for the common public?

Perhaps he was doing something wrong, mate. I can't remember ever picking up a virus. People just download and run whatever, from wherever. That doesn't mean I don't use anti-virus, but it never picks anything up.

As a gamer and game dever: PC ftw, because of DirectX. Easy as that.

Windows has enough market that few products can afford to not be compatible with it.

I can see appeal in Mac because it comes with some nice stuff, but as a PC user I like to choose what I have (a freedom Linux users enjoy even more).

I'm Jibb Smart and I'm a PC.

i just dropped by to say something worthless...
yeah, im that kind of asshole...

also, i dont care about the debatte because frankly, it doesnt matter. i use windows, i dont care why you dont and i dont care how stupid i am.

also, i like chocolate...

I really enjoy OSX because after spending some time with various linux distros, I found that OSX felt like a really polished linux distro.... It is Unix after all so it definitely felt similar.
To me it had the securty and power of linux, with the ease of use and simple to get running aspect of windows. Best of both worlds.

Plus, a lot of linux programs can be compiled or easily ported to OS X.

@amy: we are talking about PC Os, not mobile OS.
The Linux in the devices is highly customized to a certain task/environment,
and not a general OS.

Don't blame whatever OS, sounds a bit like your dads fault to me

Everybody should choose the OS he/she is content with.

Anyway I'm a windows guy because

• Linux will never be THE gaming platform, not all vendors would like to open their drivers, as a developer you should stick with your clients platform
• MS Office is still THE standard office solution
• my MCSA degree would be useless

Oh nonetheless I use debian on a few webservers, for this purpose it's perfect

Did I mention every other internet-enabled PC in the house was running Linux, and hasn't been hit once? This Windows machine is the only thing with the problem, and it's not like he hasn't looked into it. The trouble is, as good as our firewall is, it ultimately just delays the virus problem.


You have a point here, but that's not really the problem. You see, Linux uses a much different file structure than Windows, such that every file on your PC uses permissions. For example, if a user runs an application, he can only modify a text file if the user owns the the text file as well. Even if a virus landed on your Linux machine, it wouldn't be able to do anything since it doesn't "own" any of your files. The whole kernel would just reject it. Windows doesn't have this; if a virus lands on your machine, it can do anything, anywhere. You're totally defenseless.

while that is true, I dont believe there is anything wrong with it. Thats about the equivilent of saying people are dumb for using c++ instead of assembly because you could theoretically make your programs exponentially more efficient with assembly... But it would take forever, and the dev time itself would be ineffecient.

Inefficiencies have several forms, whether its taking time you dont have to learn to use linux when you have a perfectly good option with windows, or spending time searching for linux software... It's not always strictly about what "could be better".

You also add the "loads it with viruses", now this is an issue I've been arguing about with peopl for a long time because It's not my fault if you (not you specifically, I'm referring to most people) are too retarded to keep your computer free of viruses, and even if you get them, reinstalling windows and drivers takes 45 minutes tops, so just keep an extra partition with your important shit on it and your good. Even with linux, I recommend reformatting once in a while just strictly for the "making everything new without much effort" factor. Even if you don't, I put together my best friends pc about 1.5 years ago.... he has NO VIRUS PROTECTION WHATSOEVER.... but he's also not an idiot and so he hasnt had any real issues with it yet.... I have avg.... I never scan like I should... but then again I'm not some idiot who doesnt know how to keep viruses off my pc so it still runs fine.




point being, yes there are viruses for windows... just dont get them! and yes, people are too lazy to learn things some times... and sometimes they just dont have the time, and thats perfectly fine.

While yes, linux does use a very different structure, that isn't what makes it more secure... you can actually do this with windows (If you want to) too. Permissions are pervasive in any os nowadays.

As to viruses on linux, they do exist, but not in the sense that they do on windows. The kernel of linux is more secure yes, but every layer on top of the kernel that is added is inherently less secure than the last. So, the trick to writing a linux virus is to not attack the kernel, instead you attack the GUI (Gnome, KDE, xFCE). It can be done, and proofs do exist for this, however, since linux is such a small portion of the market, it is not exploited the way that would be and is with windows.

As to being totally defenseless in windows, if you take the time, you can lock files down to a comparable level as linux, yes there are still going to be more holes, but thats simply because more people exert their efforts in attacking windows and not linux (Although linux servers are popular choices for C&C [Command and control] Servers for botnets).

Regards,
Ayrus

I love my windows 7 computer and I also love my mac mini with now finally Snow Leopard (which is btw very cheap...). Both run very fast and very stable and while I prefer the preinstalled software on the mac and the developement tools of it over what I´ve got on my windows computer, I use windows for playing games and gamestudio and I really enjoy it currently. Of course also because one notices the 4gb ram vs the macs 2gb as well as the i5 vs the core2duo.
While currently the win7 taskbars highlighting when turning off the fancy stuff, which is actually needed for some software I use, it is pretty hard to create a new folder on the mac if the finder window shows the files in detailed mode if the folder is full, as there is no free space to click at, which you would need. xCode btw doesn´t seem to offer a really working save all function, instead you have to rebuild to get asked if you want to save all...

I once had ubuntu installed and I may will install it somewhen again, or another linux distro. I liked it but messed around with my hardware I had back then and thus sometimes took hours to start. And I relied quite a bit on the internet with it, to find and get all the things I needed as well as the many updates there were, which is not so great if your internet is as slow as mine.
I also didn´t get used to it the way I am used to windows or mac, but I may would also need some more time with it.