Recommended WAMP package

G'day!

Mum got a Mac and let me have her old PC, so I'm keen to set up a server. I'm leaning towards a WAMP package since it's already got a legit Windows version on it and this means I can make game servers to interact with it on the same computer using A7 when I experiment with multiplayer and POWs (Persistent Online Worlds -- much less vague than the MMO prefix that has come to mean any multiplayer game that remembers anything about the player, no matter how little -- but I digress).

What do people recommend? XAMPP looks really good, but apparently is has security issues. If I'm just using Apache, PHP and MySQL can it be set up to be as secure as any other similar package? Does anyone prefer anything else?

Also LAMPstack from bitnami looks really good, but I don't want to go into Linux because I won't be able to have A7 servers on the same machine.

Thanks,

Jibb

PS: I almost put this in "Tools", but it isn't really game-dev specific, so this seems to be the best place.

if i understand it right wamp (or similar software) is just a server/database system right? to be honest I am just going what i consider being a much simpler route and using SQLite. personally I just find it very portable and easy to use.

Thanks for the response

So SQLite includes a server? I looked it up on Wikipedia but it doesn't seem clear on that (although I was just glancing through).

What I like about XAMPP (which I've been using the past couple of days, since I haven't really received any other suggestions since I posted) is how it all fits together so well from the install. I quite frankly have no idea how much effort it is to get a server interacting with a database -- it's probably very simple -- but I don't need to know if I use something like XAMPP (more specifically, XAMPP Lite), which has the server and the database working together from the get go.

So yeah, is SQLite more than just a database management system?

Cheers,

Jibb

WAMP basically stands for Windows Apache MySql Php

just as xampp it is a preconfigured web server package with some management tools, apache,mysql and phpmyadmin. You create your php script, drop in to the www directory and it works right away, no need to go through frustrating apache,mysql and php installation & setup.


Sqlite does not require a server but last time i checked, you were not able to use accounts and/or passwords on the database. It's just a file, you open and run queries on it from the a7 server that's all, no need for database server. For a POW it should be sufficent.

I'm quite keen to take advantage of A7's new http functions (when we get the next public beta), among other things unrelated to A7 usage, so I'm inclined towards some sort of *AMP package. By sticking with Windows I can run persistent A7 stuff on it as well (later on) without occupying resources on my main computer.

So thanks, but I guess SQLite doesn't fit all my purposes.

Jibb

yeah, instead of such purposes, sqlite is more useful for like, keeping quest explaniations/details, items, dialogues for rpg-like games.

Alright. Thanks anyway

Btw, I don't know how it happened, but both your avatars in this thread are different for me right now (I know it changes every time I refresh, but I thought they were both meant to be the same?).

The top one is blonde, and the bottom one has blue hair!

Jibb

yeah sqlite is just a database, i use a7 as the server itself, and i store persistent information (usernames, passwords, positions, etc) in the database, and just have a small library mixed with GSTsqlite that allows me to do all of the server stuff right in a7

But yeah, if your looking for an all around 3rd party server solution, thats probably not the way to go.

Fair enough. How's your MM project going, btw?

Jibb

getting back to topic:

I'm using XAMPP Lite for local testing, I need phpmyadmin for administrating the database, its the best tool IMHO. As Quadraxas said, WAMP packages are really comfortable.

However, I wouldn't use any WAMP package for the server of a release version, I'd rather install a secure MySql server and keep apache/php away from that server (if possible from the games concept).

That's very interesting. I don't have any prior experience with MySQL. What about a WAMP package makes it insecure? Or is it just that trouble-makers could potentially access my database without going through my game? I guess that would be pretty easy if they have a peek at what information my game would be putting out.

Jibb

A MySQL server is also included in wamp packages. Trouble-makers aren't able to access the database, as long as you have the newest most secure MySQL version and you don't give the username and password to anyone. Additionally, you can configure the mySQL server to not accept connections from the internet. When doing all of the above, the mySQL data should be pretty save (as long as your game doesn't have sql injection vulnerabilities, but thats up to you to program it to be save).

It's apache and php that make a wamp-packet insecure. In the past, there have been quite a few so called "remote exploits" in apache or php.
In the worst case, they can give "trouble-makers" full access to your system. That is unlikely if using Linux, but likely when using a stock windows (server 2003) installation with any WAMP.

In order to be moderately save you'll have to install updates ASAP after they get released, and run the apache-server as a non-privileged user.

My concern was more that they'd sniff outgoing packets from the game communicating with the server, and figure out how to have the apache server manipulate the database. This is less a concern for an A7 server, which can more easily take into account data that it receives from the game on a much more regular basis. Or at least, that's how I imagine it would work
Wow. That's bad!

Thanks for that. I have two types of use for online databases planned, and with your advice in mind I'd probably set them up like so:
1. Persistent online worlds in which case I'll need to host the game on a Windows machine with A7, but I'll have A7 interact with MySQL directly; no Apache (or other) server on the system.
2. Lobby systems -- I think the easiest way to have a good lobby-system with which other servers can communicate (update their status, such as how many players are in the game, and so on) while still hosting a game would be to use the up-coming http functions from the beta page. For this I'll set up a Linux system with a LAMP-stack. This would also use very little bandwidth on my side, and I could probably comfortably have lobbies for several different multiplayer games (if I ever make that many) on the same machine without much trouble.

Does that make sense?

Jibb

Both 1 and 2 sound pretty solid.
For 1, I hope you're planning a system like that:


MySQL <------> A7 Server <------> A7 Client

Its important that the clients don't have direct access to the mySQL database. As long as the A7 Server checks all incoming data from the clients for validity, the MySQL database and thus the "game world" is save.

Same with the lobby system. As long as the php-scripts running on the apache server are save, the whole system will be save (except for the mentioned "exploits", but when you keep the system up to date the risk will be minimal).

Yes, I am. Thanks very much, I've seen your multiplayer work and appreciate your help

Jibb