OpenAL

JCL, you said that DirectSound will be replaced with OpenAL:
My question is, will we get A8 with OpenAL in 2010 as you promised, or this will be same as with c_ignore?
Here is the old thread (25.03.2010):
A8

I guess you mean DirectSound - as DirectPlay was(is?) the networking system

Yes, my bad, cause I wrote in hurry. But that doesn't change the main question!

Thank you for your answer... This is how conitec (especially JCL) stays behind it's word...

No problem.

Is there an answer or not? I cant define.

edit: No Merry Christmas anymore. Means yes?

No, I only just noticed Christmas was over.

Answer here is, that JCL isn't man of his word... All that he can say here is - no problem... Really, I do understand that all of you guys out there are really busy, with bug fixing and so on... And developing new engine isn't that easy at all. But why do you promiss thing that you aren't able to do(as I see now, you aren't able to develop new version with OpenAL in this short term of time)?? Same thing was with c_ignore... That isn't really good... I'm really sad to say such things...but it's true. You do let people down.

And why did you move this topic to Virtual Answering Machine?? Is this how you are trying to avoid answering to my main question? Was my question about something that stays beyond games?

I moved this due to forum rules. a) you apparently sort of answered it for yourself b) your personal problems with JCL dont belong to technical forums.

This is more speculation than knowledge, but to me it seems as if gamestudio makes only a very small part of conitecs business and is more some kind of hobby of jcl, which means that he will develop the engine as long as he kinda enjoys it and that he will prefer to implement features he enjoys writing, which are usually small and easy to implement things.

...like new bugs

Hahaha
I guess now all of us (community) know, what JCL does. He makes new bugs ("even if they are bugs, they are new!" - this is what he think after developing each bug) and after he promisses fixes for each new bug (but this fixes will never exist)... That kind of new business I guess... I have to say, that only one who pushes engine forward (a bit) is community.

I'm sorry, but if you would look onto the forecast page you could read:

That is right. Thank you. But I asked JCL, will we get A8 with OpenAL before the 2010 as was promissed... He said, nothing...

ITT: Kids going crazy because they don't got their features in time and now feel ripped of.
You can still switch the engine, you know? I heard Unity3D is awesome.

There are 4 days left for this year, I don't think that he will finish it, pass it through the beta test into a public release in this short time... I think you are a bit nitpicking.

I know that they wouldn't develop A8 with OpenAL in this year. The thing is, why do they promiss things which they can't make in time?! Or why do they promiss something which never will be done?! JustSid, your advice is very good. I'm thinking about changing to UDK. But that has nothing to do with my question. And there is no one feels ripped of. I just see, that conitec doesn't care about pushing forward it's game studio project, and really do not case about it's users. And thats is sucks!

man 1 week delay is not too much. it's %90 it will probably make it to next beta.

If they wouldn't care, they wouldn't let this forum run, JCL would never answer anything and they would sell you a rebranded A6 Standard for 800 bucks. Well, no, they wouldn't sell you anything at all if they wouldn't care =/

Gamestudio is a hobby project of JCL, and its a damn good hobby project. You knew what you were about to buy when you bought Gamestudio and you knew that this is to almost 99% a one men show.

Fortunately I did not buy it yet, and I think I'm not gonna buy it ever... (I just used free and trial versions).
And I think you understand, that even PRO version of GS doesn't really work out 800 bucks...
And it's really can't compete with such game engines as UDK and Unity3D (which you heard is really cool).
Most of GS users aren't professionals (as me), so programming with GS is just a small hobby for them.
But to get normal version (with shaders and so on) you need to pay about 200 bucks...
Why do you need to pay 200 bucks, if you can get free version of UDK with great PhysX and shaders?!
The only thing that keeps me with GS is LITE-C... It's really great and easy language, but the way GS uses it, is sucks...

I don't see how you can have this sense of entitlement when you haven't even paid for the product you are using, and in fact even use the FREE version that is being GIVEN to you as a COURTESY.

YES.

It's not a COURTESY! Are you nuts?!
It's just part of the business, they give you something for free, but if you want more, then you have to pay.
And this is also the way that JCL try to compete with another engines (UDK and so on).
And also, this is how they try to make people leave warez and start working with legal free version!
And where is your "COURTESY"?! This is all just a business...
And as a adequate person, before buying something, I need to be sure that customer service is really good...
Not just saying: - "Ahh, this is just one of that thousand GS users...".
And from what I see today, is only careless and impolite treatment...
And BTW I'm here not talking only for myself, I have few friends here, which are leading really huge projects (one of the best projects I've ever seen on GS). They bought GS! And now JCL don't give a shit about them and they projects...

Have fun with UDK. here is a link to their community. Sayanora:

http://forums.epicgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=366

Thank you, your link is very useful. But keep it with yourself for now, cause I don't need it now. And what is Sayanora? My mother language is similar with Turkish, but I don't understand it.

Actually my message was another way of saying you can leave the communtiy anytime you want.If you do not like the business model/attitude/way of working of the conitec, no one forces you to use the engine or to buy a license. Stop your rants and switch to whatever engine you are going to switch.

and actually it's sayonara, i guess i ve mispelled it, it is japanese and means good bye.

I got the main idea of your previous post, but I have to say that you are too early trying to say good bye to me
As I said before, keep your UDK community link with yourself for now. And yes, there is no one that forces me to use GS and no one forces me to stay at this community. The only thing is, few unfinished projects. As soon as I'll finish them, engine will be changed.
And believe me, that will be one of my best decisions I've ever made in my life. The only thing I'll miss is few friend from this community.

after saying all this don't come running back when you switch engines, that's all i am saying.

Yes, thats what I thought too after I got my iMac. Glad you doing this move too
Btw, now that Cowabanga isn't here anymore, why won't you take his nick? Sounds way cooler than 3run and it would fit superb.

Bwahaha!!!!

I think (I hope) that there will be no need for me to come back (not to run back as some one said here) to GS. I'll better start my parkour trainig again, then will start something with GS again. But who knows, we'll see. Any way, the only person who will make decision to come back will be me. JustSid, why did you come back to GS from Unity? What problems you've faced? About Cowabanga, that dude use to say same thing as I do? Or you just don't like him as you don't like me? And about changing my nick, there are million reasons why I'm not gonna do that, but the main are: First - Cowabanga sounds stupid to me. Second - I'm not arabic. JustSid from where does that idea come from? Do you want to take my nick when I'll leave? By the way, did he change engine too? If yes, to which one? Thank you all for trying make me stay

Nah, no problem bro. Btw, do you need some links to other engines too?


Just in case you haven't read it: I switched to Mac OS X back in the beginning of 2009. I don't think that I switched back to GS, but I also never switched to Unity. But to make this clear: Switching to the Mac was awesome, switching away from GS was one of the stupidest things I ever did and I would lovely pay 800 buck to have A8 on my Mac (although I would start asap with ranting about the non Mac-like UI).

If you the one who is going to pay 800 bucks for GS to make things clear I have to say that that could be the stupiest thing that you could ever make. About links, I'll be really grateful if you'll keep your links with yourself could you do that little task for me? Just keep them, and don't let any one know that you have then Thank you for that dude.

Oh, I was really happy with my A7 comm and really miss some of the features that I need to develop now by myself. In fact I never really found a engine again that pleased me enough to use it, so I wrote my own stuff as GStudio replacement.
So no, I don't think that 800 bucks are wasted money for A8, but I can see that it seems like a waste for someone who can't use it anyway. But I'm afraid that you will never be happy with others engines too

I have to make you sad dude I can use Game Studio and I even can make some games with it, other ways I never could see all it's bugs and unfinished staff. Yes you can make something yourself, something that game studio doesn't have. But why you need to pay money then? Make game engine yourself and I was happy with game studio, before I faced careless threatment of JCL... I was happy with A7, but never with buggy A8... And I tried UDK at once, and it's really comfortable and easy to use. Problem was my weak PC at that moment. Any way, this topic was made to make things clear for myself. Now I know that JCL doesn't give a shit about community problems. He only cares about how mach money he make... And that is right, cause this is business, but even in business must be humanity.

"I was happy with A7, but never with buggy A8..."
A8 does not have more bugs than A7, right?

I'm not sure about that bro. May be I blame it as buggy because I need to work around to get any of my projects work on it, and each time when I launch them, they feel kind of different... I know that with A8 is possible to create great and funny games (same as with A7,A6,A5 etc.), I can take your skate game as example. But for me A8 is kind of different...May be I need to get used to it? I was thinking about buying it really, I was waiting when it will develop, but now I just don't like it... And I can't really understand why. May be one of the reasons is how JCL is trying to push old A7 users to upgrade to A8?

It has new versions of the A7 bugs

Hah, may be you are right Fireball...

I really don´t understand, what you have against 3run. I mean he is the only person who tries to help newbies here and do not always refer to the manual. Maybe he behaves childish sometimes, but everybody is a bit childish inside. I think 3run is a great user, because he tries to help people so they don´t have to go the same hard way as 3run.
i know that i am making me unpopular now, but i think 3run is right, but not in every point. It´s right. JCL is not a man of much words. He just talk if it´s necessary. But he really should sometimes tell a bit more, so everybody can understand, because not everyone is so educated like him. but i don´t think that he just tries to advoid problems. i think he is doing something, but i don´t know what. i am sure that he just does necessary things. He was not the one who moved the topic. I am also sure that OpenAl will be implented,but in 2011. i think you can wait a bit 3run.i know how sick it is not to get things which was promised, but sometimes not everything goes well. Maybe JCL got some problems with the Computer or something. I´ts the same like me. I promise something, but something destroys the whole plan and i cant hold my promises. And if this is the case, then you can do nothing else than wait. Complaining doesn´t help. Even if you cry the feature won´t come earlier.

I hope you understand my Point of view.

alibaba, bro
You are the one who I'm going to miss if I'll leave this community
Thank you for giving me your hand with support, I appreciate it.
Yes, you are right I guess, I need to wait a bit more.
And yes, may be sometimes my words seems to all of you guys, kind of childish.
But thats only because I'm not professional with GS and still I can say some silly things...
And my English skills aren't that good to explain everything in easy way.
Sometimes it takes me few hours to make you understand what I wanted to say...
I even try to draw some pictures in paint to make you understand
But not all of you can understand that its hard for me (same as for all users of GS which aren't good with English).
And thats OK, I do not wait for you to do so.
Thank you one more time alibaba. I wish you to have great holidays

Thank you, your english is really good, and until now i understood everthig from you

Not everything sounds childish, just in some really small cases.

And i think that this has nothing to do with you gs knowledge
These are just human reactions. This is normal.
And i don´t know why some people has to react like parents or old wise people. Sometimes they need some humor. And thats what i like at you. You are humorous guy. Even if you are stressed.

So please people, try to understand some people and don´t feel offended.

Thank you one more time

No Problem, i´m just telling my point of view.

Welcome to the world of software/game development.. Sometimes people miss their deadlines and nothing can be done.

instead of whining, the more experienced programmers of this community could try to team up to work on an open source gamestudio clone.

i think with irrlicht/ogre + bullet + openal + lua/python/javascript/mono + blender 2.6 with a customized gui for level editing, it wouldn't be that hard to compete with jcl who just works on gamestudio part time.

the most liked feature of gamestudio seems to be the simple and straightforward scripting api. once a similar c-api (it wouldn't have to be 100% compatible, just similar enough to allow a very easy transition for gamestudio users) and the needed functionality in the background is created for a different engine, the rest would be a piece of cake (binding scripting languages to it,...).

...
or maybe just wait for http://code.google.com/p/gamekit/ to mature. not gamestudio compatible but i think it's the most promising user friendly open source game engine.

But experience isn't an indicator for success. I believe that even the smartest of the smartes people here won't be able to make this.
But, feel free to prove me wrong

some people here program their own engines from scratch (blendelf,...) and this project actually would be easier and less work.

it wouldn't really be about being the smartest programmer but about being able to build a stable team and staying with a project until it is finished.

I'm fully agree with ventilator.
Even if not a new engine from scratch, but a normal working FPS template for GS.
Not like the one from AUM (that one looks really sucks). And not like an old A6 templates...
With normal weapons, AI and so on... The only problem is a stable team for that.

And the best way to keep a good team together is to pay them a good amount of money....

The best way to keep team together is to be united with idea.
And to have a good team mates.

over the years a lot of user contributions got done for free in this community. i often wondered if this actually makes any sense. spending your time to improve the shortcomings of someone else's commercial product? hm... what if this time got spent on something really free that feels like your own?

The best team is worthless if the team members don't have the economical basics
to stay within the team. At the end of the month it's not about the good
ideas but if one can pay his rent or not

old_bill, you talk about commercial projects dude. There sure, if you are looking for a good team, that will be interested in working for you, sure you need to pay them really good money. But I do talk about something, that can be that with people for which making games and some tools with GS is just a hobby and they really enjoy spending time with programming. And all team members in that kind of team must be well known by the one, who is going to make that kind of team. They all must be friends and should work to learn and help other users, not to earn money.
ventilator I think the reason why most people do contribute something here, is that they trying to make a good name for themselves, so they could join some team, and all of they done contributions will be huge plus for them. But there are also some people which making contributions just to help peoples, to make them work easier. And to have a get a good team here, I guess you need to pay money, cause there no one will be interested in making something for free... But who knows? I'll be happy to make something like I said above, to help other users for free.

experience is not everything as other people said,you need time to get a such mature engine.

I am working on my own engine, mainly raknet+ogre+openal and basic collision detection for now.

And as old_bill said, voluntary community team projects generally end up with 2-3 members that originally started the project.