nuclear meltdown in japan

do you think it will happen? the news don't sound very promising.

edit: it seems to have started and the wind direction doesn't look good for tokyo.

Yeah, the meltdown happened. Last thing I've heard is that people have been evacuated, radiocative materials have been detected outside the area, though the wind is currently blowing it towards the ocean.

This is such a horrible situation.

The news are a bit confusing currently. Some sources say that it has happened, while other say it didn't. I guess that the situation will be clearer in a few hours, I'm hoping for the best!

This makes me happy that I live in Germany, one of the few countries that has already started to abandon nuclear power.

Google translated news

The reactor isn't exploded but a few surrounding buildings, although the reactor might follow sooner or later.

Quote:

This makes me happy that I live in Germany, one of the few countries that has already started to abandon nuclear power.

Not sure if you're sarcastic. But you do know that a few months ago, it was decided to keep those active even longer? Even though we still have absolutely no idea where to keep all the radioactive garbage, and even though some of those are in horrible condition?

Now, of course nuclear power isn't all bad, sure. But everything that gets us to find better sources quickly should be applauded.

The risk for Powerplants in Germany is much lower, as we dont have
the risk of major earthquakes and Tsunamis.
Of course there are many other contries close by who also have these plants.

In japan the problem is, that also the two other reactors there have the same issue of overheathing, an will react probably the same.
I guess the explosion was hydrogen, that leaked out of the reactor, and blew up. The reactor itself might still be intact.

Luckily for Japan, the Wind is right now blowing out to the Pacific.


maybe in 3 years, we will see Stalker 3, call of Fukushima.


What Japan should NOT do, is sending in poor military recruits with a paper-facemask to clean the buildings.
And rather stay out the area as long as possible.

Cool, my complete social media timeline (forums, twitter, facebook) changed from plagiat experts to nuclear power-plant experts over night.

I know about that, and its a crime to keep them active any longer in this condition. Thank you, CDU and FDP.
Its easy to imagine that there haven't been any investments into these plants since it was decided to abandon nuclear power, which might even make them more dangerous than plants in neighboring countries.

However, many other countries are continuing to build more and more plants, that will run for decades and will create more and more nulear waste. Seeing that I think that it was a big step into the right direction to abandon nuclear power. We just have to make sure that this actually happens as fast as possible.

Travelling Wave Reactors, solution to all the nuclear waste problems. Just invest some money in it.

But there wouldn't be any profit in it, so why bother? Rather close down nuclear plants so we rely on fossil fuel even more. There is a huge profit margin there!

it is not sure yet if there was a meltdown. thats the latest information...

it's very likely that a meltdown is already going on. the rods were more than halfway out of the cooling water for many hours. what's not certain is how well the containment will hold. hopefully it holds.

it's interesting how in the beginning the news were quite different in austria and germany. in germany it was seen as much more harmless. in the meantime the news are the same though.

I really hope that this stupid thing finally blows up, I can't stand the "OH MY GOD, A NUCLEAR MELTDOWN!!!1111eleven WE WILL ALL DIE NOW" anymore.

I really don't know how you can hope for a nuclear cathastrophe...

Well, the thing blows up anyway, right? Why can't it blow up _NOW_ so people stop annoying me with how bad everything in Japan is right now and we can live on?
I mean, yes, its horrible etc. pp. but I don't want to hear/read it anymore. Everyone comes now and pretends to be the Japan expert, while they were plagiat experts yesterday and football experts the other day.

Well, if you don't want to hear anything about that anymore, then close your browser, turn off your tv. I don't know if the reactor will blow up anyways. I do not belong to the group of nulear experts. Wishing for a catastrophe to happen so you don't have to hear about it anymore seems quite odd to me anyways.

Even if I would close my browser, the world around me also become experts about this topic.


So what? I think the same about other possible catastrophes too. The next oil spill? Fine, let it come now. A big war? Alright, but NOW please. Its just that people always think it would interest me or something like that and then I have to listen to the same opinion again and again.

Beside that, my news feed mostly consist out of tech related stuff, heise, apple developer feed, cocoa with love, cocoa is my girlfriend, etc. I follow only tech related people on twitter and I don't consume any mainstream media service like TV or newspaper. AND still, since yesterday everyone is talking about this reactor and why it blows up eventually and how fucked we are. It was okay the first time at 1 am, now its only annoying.

Call me cruel, crazy, heartless or whatever but I really don't care about this reactor.

. . .

A very insightful post of yours you have there, that tells us quite a lot about you (mainly concerning an almost sad desire to come across as cool and different).
Maybe in a few years, you'll actually figure out why people may find this worthy of discussion. In the meantime, feel free to continue to try way to hard to be funny on the internet.


Predictable response A: "Children in Africa are starving everyday and you don't discuss that!"
Predictable response B: "I was only sarcastic okay of course I care"
Predictable response C: "I don't care what you guys think of me because I'm a unique and pretty snowflake"

I don't mind discussion, discuss as much as you want about it, but don't bother me with you wannabe expert opinion, because I don't think that you are a genius or cool because you told me that this is all bad and we could make it so much better if the evil pharma-terror-government-cia-whatever group wouldn't hold back all money for the really nice things because all they are interested in is profit and of course because they are pure evil.

If you would be really worried about anything, you wouldn't bitch about it on the interwebs, but as you are here and tell me that everything is bad now, you seem to don't really care either.

Sorry fürs deutsche aber ich weiß nicht wie ich es auf englisch schreiben soll, das Argument mit den Afrikanern ist genauso gut wie das mit "Gibt es denn nichts wichtigeres?". Ja, es gibt immer etwas wichtigeres, mal abgesehen davon dass das extrem subjektiv ist, und genau deswegen sollte man auch nicht über das wichtigere sondern über das aktuelle diskutieren. Alles ist es Wert diskutiert zu werden, aber das geht verloren wenn alle in eine Richtung dieselbe Meinung brüllen und einen auf "Ich habs ja gleich gewusst" und "ich weiß es auch jetzt besser" machen.
Diskussion okay, wannabe experten brauch ich nicht.

Sarkasmus war das auch nicht, ich mein das absolut ernst.

Was hast du dagegen individuell zu sein? Wenns mich deine neu gefundene und innerhalb von 5 Minuten gebildete Experten Meinung nicht interessiert bin ich also uncool weil nicht mehr mainstream? Wenn du das wirklich so siehst tust du mir echt leid.

In what way exactly do I... bother you with my opinion?
I mean, I haven't send them to you via PM or email, haven't called you on the phone or knocked on your door to tell you them. Instead, I posted them here, where you freely decided to read them.

Unless there's a guy behind you holding a pistol to your head, with his only order being to continously hitting refresh, I really can't see how there's anyone to blame but you.



OK. Mostly quoted for being awful and hilarious (and agreeing with my previous post so well).



What would I do instead? ... Build a spaceship and leave the planet...?
Seriously, I'm at a loss. I can't really go there and help, you know.

_________________________________
EDIT:



While I begin to understand your argument, it seems to be extremely misplaced in this thread. Because there is not a single one "wannabe expert"-opinion. The usual post here is "Last thing I've read is *THAT*". This is not even an opinion. That's just stating the latest news for the rest.

There's been a little side-discussion (for three posts) regarding nuclear plants in germany, which mainly consists of the debate regarding nuclear waste, a problem that hasn't been solved yet (which is a fact), and Damocles' short remark that such a catastrophe is unlikely to happen here (which highlights the safety-aspect that is often part of this discussion). That, again, isn't really a "new opinion established in five minutes". What statement exactly are you referring to?

Maybe such opinions are there in your facebook or messenger-contacts, but then that is something best discussed with them, not with us.



Way to miss the point. There's nothing wrong with being yourself. There IS something fundamentally wrong to outright state you wish a catastrophe (possibly in full knowledge of what that might entail) to happen because easily avoidable discussions in an internetforum about that "bother you".
What I was referring to is that this isn't unusual for teenagers, and those usually try to rationalize their opinions in a (possibly less ironicly formulated) response that I've given as "predictable responses". That wasn't so much aimed at you, though.



If you wish to discuss this, that is absolutely fine by me. But please open a new thread for that, because what happened here REALLY doesn't deserve to be filled with posts like those. And it's also offtopic.

Ahhh, sure, they deserve wannabe experts opinions about things they don't understand (I don't say that I understand how a nuclear power-plant works), and experts in things like how everything could be better and they say it for yeaaars now. Because that it was caring really means, standing next to the one with the bleeding nose and saying "told ya".
Wow, I can't express how dumb that is.

Well I'd like some actual information. What's on TV here right now is starting to get on my nerves. Greenpeace seems to have sent out hordes of their "experts" which are on the screen all the time and you don't have to guess how they assess the situation which also is based on information that pretty much are nonexistent...

The sad thing as I see it is that this plant is like 60 years old and was meant to be turned off this year (at least that was told on TV recently)...

@Datenschreck ist eine gute Quelle für news die ich aktuell nutze, wiederholt sich nicht und kann Japanisch. Außerdem drückt er/sie einem nicht ständig irgendeine selbsterdachte Experten Meinung in die Fresse.

Ich mein, was da passiert interessiert mich ja schon, nur wenn alles was dabei rüberkommt wannabe experten sind dann kann das Ding auch jetzt gleich explodieren bzw anderweitig kaputt gehen, wissenswertes kommt da eh nichts raus, nur der Profilierungsversuch von halb Deutschland.

Meanwhile, the forum still awaits a single example of a "wannabe expert opinion" in this thread.

(You did notice my EDIT in reply to yours?)

Argh, sorry, didn't saw your edit:


Damn, sorry, no I didn't wanted to say that this thread is full of them, but that around me everyone behaves like a expert (my second post). It got so annoying that I made the third post with the wish that this god damn reactor should explode right now (which possibly derailed the thread, but it was interesting and refreshing because it wasn't the same again and again).

Edit: Great, german, article: http://www.physikblog.eu/2011/03/12/dampf-im-kessel-druck-und-siedewasserreaktoren/
(Ich geb denen mal den entsprechenden vertrauensvorschuss und glaub denen was da steht)

i just read that they have the Situation under control. however at this point would a nuclear meltdown really make the situation that much worse? I think the earthquake and the following tsunami did more damage then a nuclear meltdown would do. hundreds perhaps thousands of people died from the earthquake and tsunami. If there was a nuclear meltdown perhaps a couple dozen people would die. the surrounding area is already evacuated. the long term damage to the environment would be the worst part of it all.

I am surprised how well the buildings held up in the earthquake. japan was ready for a large earthquake its too bad they were not ready for the tsunami.

hey, wannabe expert here. let me talk a little about this, to fulfill all chlichees, because that one is the last one missing, so here I go:

the reactor was shut down imediately. no real damage done. a small leak was detected, but its under control now and everything is fine.

the meltdown that everybody talks about was not about the core. it was about the cooling system that needed to be active while the reactor shuts down. america handled that with sending in air supply (bad, bad america, bad terrorist america sheesh, stop doing that) and by the end of the day (japanese day, sunday) everything should be nicely under control.
wannabe expert opinion closed...

ps.: we need nuclear power. cant survive without it. end of discussion...

edit: hundrets of thousands did not die. a few hundret at max. japanese people are used to earthquakes. not that size, but still...

if your referring to what i said then your slightly mistaken. i said hundreds perhaps thousands died. not hundreds of thousands. hundreds perhaps thousands refers to a number in the range of 100 - 10,000 where hundreds of thousands refers to numbers in the range of 100,000 - 1,000,000

Either way its a terrible disaster and im glad they worked out the situation with the nuclear plant.

The earthquake destroyed also a dam and many people drowned
However most of us are not scared about dams, floods being considered a natural disaster

a flood is bad but you can clean up and go on afterwards. after a nuclear accident an area can be uninhabitable for a very long time. it's kind of clear why people are more afraid of the second. japan also is a lot more densely populated than the area around chernobyl.

Oh, if only it were that simple...
(It's not. As long as you believe you can summarize the discussion in not even one line, you're probably misinformed)

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20110313/t10014635191000.html


doesn't really sound like it is under control.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Venting_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_3_1303111.html

oh how good that i never stated that this is a post i try to fulfill a chlichè with...

oh.. wait...
i did! how nice of me, informing you guys not to take it serious...

Imho it is important to follow and discuss what happened in Japan.

It gives us an impression what can happen, if everything goes wrong.
And it will always happen, that some day in the future the worst most unlikely case becomes reality.

So we should be aware of the danger and think about what can be done better.

Murphy's law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQZ-XboNZgQ

Well, if it's possible to think that you're serious even though you gave a warning, maybe that should be a warning sign regarding your usual posts.

As if japan hasn't had enough now a volcano is erupting. check it out here... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20...h_boulders.html

Someone probably said "Well, it can't get any worse" and jinxed it.

agreed. i should re-think my posting habits.

http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/34/34342/1.html

interesting: the technical concept manual of the plant

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf

the news are very weird now. first they say reactor 2 was cooled down to 100°C and under control, 2 hours later they say it has run totally dry and it starts to melt down. that the us aircraft carrier turned around because it went through a radioactive cloud doesn't sound very reassuring either.

edit: i think sometimes they mix up the plant numbers (fukushima 1 and 2) and the reactor numbers. the reactors at fukushima 2 seem to be under control and below 100°C.

The news is weird. Everything is fine then there are problems. I think the news reporters need to get there story stright before they publish it.

i have just been made aware of THIS!

Every single one of those people should be executed. Horrible how dumb and stupid some people are...

Whats even worse is that those people get likes for it...

Sometimes I'm really worried about the future of our species...

#wtfiswrongwiththepeople

Blind patriotism for the win!

History Education by Popcorn movies.

I want to throw this video in too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY
Thats the reason why religion should be banned, no matter what they believe in.

YES! That is fucking freaky... cant find any other Words for this as "sect". I Dont believe in God and dont like those extreme faithful people.

What I'll never get is the logic behind religious fanatics like that girl. Well let's keep out the whole thing of the belief in God in the first place and if it's the god described in the bible. I mean she has to seriously think that after prayers to open to the eyes atheists god steps up, creates an earthquake and devastates whole countrysides. How can anyone in his right mind come to such a conclusion? I don't really know how to comment such "arguments" as they are so outright stupid...

BTW are there any real news about what's happening in Japan yet? When I watch TV I've the feeling that the same experts get shown again and again who try to tell something with having a pretty much non-existant information base for what they describe. I still hope for a not so super "Super GAU" and that some cesium & stuff will be it (that's still bad but with a half-life of about 30 years it's an okayish outcome for such a terrible accident)...

Buahahahahaha guys, this bitch has nothing to do with religion!
She is some kind of sectarian, and really nuts one
Don't judge religions cause of such jerks...same as you judge Islam as terrorists...
Same as this one, I just never realized that World of Warcraft was made by satan
Crazy bitch about WOW
She just need to get boyfriend, to forget all shit that she pour out on people...
Sorry for offtopic...

Contrary to what I herd earlier it dose not appear to be under control http://www.hindustantimes.com/Japan-battling-chain-reaction/Article1-673474.aspx

Ive heard that some Idiot shut down the watervalves in reactor 2.

lol on the picture! Yeah, I heard about the shut water valves too. yeesh...

There was a third explosion. I thought things were getting better since they poured in salt water. I also heard that they are placeing it at second worst nuclear accsadent only surpassed by chernoble. And they still do not have it under control.

As a side note they gave it a 6 out of 7 on their nuclear disaster scale. What kind of scale goes to 7 in the first place? What idiot came up with that?

reactor 2 seems to leak. the plant gets evacuated. only 50 from previously 800 workers stay. the wind is directed to tokyo.

I always wondered if the Leidenfrost effect wouldn't make the water cooling highly inefficient. Seems like it turned out that way...

Will there be a "supergau" in the near future? Or is it implausible ?

Looks like the "super-gau" already happend.
The nuclear power plant "Fukushima" has been evacuated of all personnel, because the radiation is rising.

I think that effect doesn't apply if the whole thing is drowned in water.

I know this is realevent to most of you. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE72E3ZO20110315?ca=rdt . Germany is shutting down it nuclear plants.

Personaly I still think nuclear power is a safe reliable source of energy. Thousands of people die in car accidents every year and we still all drive cars. But then a couple dozen people die in a couple nuclear accidents over the 40 years or more we have been useing nuclear power and everybody freaks out. Just a thought

msmith: You are absolutely right. But our government makes a nice trick here. This is an old power plant that should be closed anyway. They just sped it up a bit.

Which shows that you haven't thought about it long enough. Seriously.
Maybe you should read what happend in Tschernobyl and what became of Pripyat and then think about what you just wrote here.

The Russians didn't handle it with the proper care (since the mistake was due to the mistake of one man. That's how it works in communism), and Europe doesn't have these severe earthquakes. It is very safe to operate a nuclear power plant in Europe.

The trick is something else: Thoses power plants (they want to "shut-down" 7 as far as I know) won't be shut-down forever. They're just not active for a few months while security checks are being made and after that the politicans will come back and say that everything is fine and switch them back on. If the media has not already forgotten about that shit by then.

@Joozey: Well, so we can store the radioactive-waste in your basement? What I mean is: Sure we have no major earthquakes here. (there are smaller ones in some parts of germany) But nevertheless technology can fail and the amount of damage if a nuclear power plant fails is so much bigger than in any other case that you just cannot call it safe. Furthermore there is still no method of handling the radioactive-waste and store it in the future.

This Nuclear Powerplant debate in Germany is silly.
We shut down working powerplants, and then
Poland for example build a new powerplant at Greifenhagen, right
at the German border (140km from Berlin), and sells the Electricity to us.

@Xarthor:
The waste we got under control, all other sources that polute our planet we do not. Like cosmic and earth radiation, food, everyone else's body. At average you get about 300 mrem a year. A nuclear powerplant produces 0.01 mrem a year to your body. It is as good as neglectible (and a coal power plant produces thrice as much radiation in the air!). When those commercial space companies start commercialising their space flights in the next 20 years, nuclear waste is no problem anymore whatsoever. And even if it would take 50 years, gathering 50 years of nuclear waste pending to be shot in space is not that much considering the large amount of storage space we have available on earth.

For reference: http://www.blackcatsystems.com/GM/safe_radiation.html

I like how my mom thinks that we now have soooo clean electricity in our house because she signed up for this green electricity bullshit. Naaah, no way we still use electricity generated by french nuclear power plant, it comes straight from a bavarian damn.

What I like even more are people now telling that we should use 1% of the Sahara for a laaaarge solar panel field, because transmitting energy over such a big distance is sooo cheap and not a single volt is lost. And of course, depending on another country is the best step we can ever make and no one will steal the copper because we all love each other so much <3

lol

Here a live geiger counter in Tokyo: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo

of course everything gets mixed together in the grid but you can control where your money goes to.

and ever heard of HVDC? a european HVDC grid would make a lot of sense. i wouldn't like to depend on some african countries either but there also is norway, spain and so on.

...
shooting the waste into space would be crazy. rocket technology is about as reliable as nuclear power plant technology. there are about 500 nuclear power plants on the planet and more than every 100th has had a very severe accident in the last 50 years. i don't think this is a very good rate if you think what is at stake.

...
i don't know what kind of plant poland is building but i hope something more modern than germany's oldest plants? so switching off the oldest german plants doesn't have to be silly. but probably this just is an election thing anyway. the cdu and fpd seem to be a little scared.

...
the waste under control? the germans seem to have a lot fun in asse.

...
just because a strong quake is very unlikely doesn't mean that it can't happen in europe. some plants like the one in slovenia are on risky faults. the plants also often are near rivers were floods can happen too.

The Castor containers are perfectly safe, and would survive a fall from a bridge with no damage other than some paint scratches, so yes, I would allow them to store one in my basement (if they can figure out how to fit it through the doors)

And I don't know how often I have to keep saying this: There is a solution to the depleted waste from the NPPs. It's called a Traveling Wave Reactor. The problem is that almost noone wants to invest money in it, because there is no profit in it for a long time (development, prototype building, mass production) before money comes back.

So instead of complaining about nuclear power plants, how about complaining to the government that they should invest some money in TWR's instead of using the tax money to fly around the world in private jets?

Rockets, maybe. Although the amount of space debris is pretty vast, a lot of commercial satellites are orbiting our planet, brought up by unmanned rockets. But the two largest commercial space companies are finishing their developments of airplanes that launch their cargo to space from greater height, it is very reliable.

Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that our energy company buys electricity from the france power plant, some small amount goes into some dam project and the rest goes right into their pocket (the contract which congratulates her for the wise choice guarantees only 15% green energy for twice the price!)

But utterly expensive. I'd rather have it buried far away from groundwater.

I want one too, they are hot enough to warm us in the winter and to cook on it.

Well that's the point of commercial space travel; it's not expensive anymore. Your vacation to space is estimated to cost as much as an expedition to the northpole. Maybe cheaper if they also carry some nuclear waste in the back.

cheap and commercial != safe in many cases.

i would rather wait for a space elevator if you really want to put the waste into space.

but the solution mentioned by michael sounds like it would make more sense.

I could see the headlines now.

" a rocket full of nuclear waste exploded mid flight. Scientists say the nuclear cloud will circle the earth several times and is urging everyone in the world to stay indoors"

However takeing the nuclear waste to space and shooting it at the sun is an ideal plan once we have a secure way to space.

Storing nuclear waste is an artificially hyped danger. (in contrast to the powerplants blowing up)

Seriously, its not that hard to store nuclear waste in a pretty save place.

But for that you need to drop these "moral" limitations,
to store this stuff in other countries, who might have better
locations for that.
What is needed in the end is a geologically inactive and
dry place underground.
Im shure its not that hard to find, when not limiting the search
to the own country.

(flying this stuff to space would be the silliest sollution,
as mentined when it blows up, wich is much more likely.)

And furthermore, as soon as we have breeder reactors, U238 will become a valuable resource.

I guess we can use 1% of the sahara to make a nuclear waste dumpsite, until we can recycle the stuff .

About exploding rockets: commercial space travelling involves airplanes and shuttles, not rockets.

Here some actual reliable information (aka. not mass media hyped) about what is going on with the nuclear power plants from the ACTUAL Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency in Japan. (http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/index.html)

Seismic Damage Information (the 23rd Release)
(As of 19:30 March 14, 2011)
Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) confirmed the current
situation of Onagawa NPS, Tohoku Electric Power Co., Inc; Fukushima
Dai-ichi and Fukushima Dai-ni NPSs, Tokyo Electric Power Co., Inc. as
follows:
1. The status of operation at Power Stations (Number of automatic shutdown
units: 10)
&#9675;Fukushima Dai-ichi Nuclear Power Station, Tokyo Electric Power Co., Inc.
(TEPCO)
(Okuma-machi and Futaba-machi, Futaba-gun, Fukushima Prefecture )
(1) The status of operation
Unit 1 (460MWe): automatic shutdown
Unit 2 (784MWe): automatic shutdown
Unit 3 (784MWe): automatic shutdown
Unit 4 (784MWe): in periodic inspection outage
Unit 5 (784MWe): in periodic inspection outage
Unit 6 (1,100MWe): in periodic inspection outage
(2) Readings at monitoring posts
The measurement of radioactive materials in the environmental
monitoring area near the site boundary conducted by a monitoring car in
considering the wind flow, confirmed the increase in the radioactivity
compared to the radioactivity at 07:30, March 14.
MP3 (Monitoring at North West of Site Boundary for Unit 2) :
231.1 micro Sv/h (14:30 March 14)
MP4 (Monitoring at north- west of Site Boundary for Unit 2 :
56.4 micro Sv/h(04:08 March 14)

&#8594;29.8 micro Sv/h(14:14 March 14)
MP5 (Monitoring at north-west Site Boundary for Unit 2)
6.1 micro Sv/h(14:02 March 14)
MP6 (Monitoring at the west –southwest Site Boundary for Unit 2)
3.70 micro Sv/h(16:10 March 14)
&#8594;4.2 micro Sv/h(12:34 March 14)
MP7 (Monitoring at the west –southwest Site Boundary for Unit 2)
6.1 micro Sv/h (12:16, March 14)
(3) Wind direction/wind speed (as of 14:14, March 14) at MP-4
Wind direction: North North West
Wind Speed: 2.6 m/

(5) Report concerning other malfunction
&#12539; No fire report notified to NISA
&#12539; TEPCO reported to NISA in accordance with Article 10 of the Act on
Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness
regarding Fukushima Dai-ichi, Units 1,2 and 3. (15:42 March 11)
&#12539; TEPCO report to NISA the event in accordance with Article 15 of the
Act for Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness
regarding Fukushima Dai-ichi, Units 1 and 2.(notified to NISA at 16:36
March 11)
&#12539; For Unit 1: Sea water is being injected to the Primary Containment
Vessel &#65288;PCV&#65289;via the Fire Extinguishing System Line (Start up 11:55
March 13)
&#8594;Interruption of injection (01:10 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 2: Water Injection Function has been sustained. (14:00 March
13)
&#12539; For Unit 2: Reactor Water Level is decreasing. (13:18 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 2: Seawater injection to the Reactor Pressure Vessel (RPV) is
ready through Fire Extinguishing System Line. (19:20 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 3: Fresh water is being injected to the PCV via Fire
Extinguishing System Line&#65288;FES&#65289;(11:55 March 13)
&#12539; For Unit 3: Sea water is being injected to the PCV via FESL(13:12
March 13)
&#12539; For Unit 1 and Unit 3: Injection of Sea water injection into PCV is
interrupted because of the lack of sea water in pit. (01:10 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 3: Injection of Sea water into PCV is restarted(03:20 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 3: Unusual pressure increase was identified (11:45 March 14)
&#12539; For Unit 3: Explosion of the Reactor Building broke out similarly with
Unit 1 (11:01 March 14)
&#9675; Fukushima Dai-ni Nuclear Power Station (TEPCO)
(Naraha-machi/Tomioka-machi, Futaba-gun, Fukushima pref.)
(1) The status of operation
Unit1 (1,100MWe): automatic shutdown, cold shut down at 13:40, March 14
Unit2 (1,100MWe): automatic shutdown, cold shut down at 14:20, March 14
Unit3 (1,100MWe): automatic shutdown, cold shut down at 12:15, March 12
Unit4 (1,100MWe): automatic shutdown
(2) Readings at monitoring post etc.
MP1 (Monitoring at the North End of Site Boundary)
0.038microSv/h(5:00 March 14)
&#8594;0.034 microSv/h(15:40 March 14)
MP3 (Monitoring at the North/West End of Site boundary)
0.037microSv/h(5:00 March 14)
&#8594;0.035 microSv/h(15:40 March 14)
MP4 (Monitoring at the North/West End of Site Boundary)
0.038microSv/h(5:00 March 14)
&#8594;0.037microSv/h(15:40 March 14)
MP5 (Monitoring at the West End of Site Boundary)
0.042 microSv/h(5:00 March 14)
&#8594;0.042 microSv/h(15:40 March 14)
(3) Direction and velocity of wind (As of 15:40, 14 March)
Direction: West
Velocity: 6 m /s

(5) Report concerning other malfunction
&#12539; None of fire report notified to NISA
&#12539; TEPCO reported to NISA in accordance with Article 10 of the Act on
Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness
regarding Fukushima Dai-ni, Units 1. (18:08 March 11)
&#12539; As same as above, TEPCO reported to NISA Fukushima Dai-ni Units 2
and 4.(18:33 March 11)
&#12539; For Unit 1: Due to Recovery of Residual Heat Removal System(RHR),
water in suppression pool is started to cool for cold shut down.(01:24
March 14)
c. Onagawa Nuclear Power Station (Onagawa-cho, Oga-gun and
Ishinomaki–shi, Miyagi Prefecture)
(1) The status of operation
Unit 1 (524MWe): automatic shutdown, cold shut down at 0:58, March 12
Unit 2 (825MWe): automatic shutdown
Unit 3 (825MWe): automatic shutdown, cold shut down at 1:17, March 12
(2) Readings of monitoring post
Reading of monitoring post : Changed
MP2 (Monitoring at the North End of Site Boundary)
Approx. 10,000 nGy/h (as of 13:09 March13)
&#8594;7,200 nGy/h (07:20 March 14)
(3) Report concerning other malfunction
&#12539; Fire Smoke on the first basement of the Turbine Building was confirmed
extinguished at 22:55 on March 11th.
&#12539; Article 10* of Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency
Preparedness (Unit No. not identified) (13:09 March 13)
2. Action taken by NISA
(March 11)
14:46 Set up of the NISA Emergency Preparedness Headquarters (Tokyo)
immediately after the earthquake
15:42: TEPCO reported to NISA in accordance with Article 10 of the Act on
Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness
regarding Fukushima Dai-ichi.
16:36: TEPCO judged the event in accordance with Article 15 of the Act for
Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness
regarding Fukushima Dai-ichi, Units 1 and 2.(notified to NISA at
16:45)
18:08: Unit 1 of Fukushima Dai-ni notified NISA of the situation of the
Article 10 of Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency
Preparedness.

or better yet: http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110315-1.pdf

It makes sense to shut down older power plants - even if those in Germany are considered quite safe.
Not because I fear they may blow up the next few hours... it's more that I think if you get rid of old things you leave place for development of something better.

But I agree what we currently see in Germany is mostly an election thingy. CDU fears to lose elections in Baden Württemberg after the Stuttgart21 revolts and the pro nuclear energy statements of the meanwhile pretty unpopular minister president Mappus.


Nuclear energy is often considered clean, as it has next to no CO2 emission... but...
I seriously ask how clean nuclear energy really can be if it produces waste which has to be sealed away and remains toxic for 100000 years and more?
How good is it to rely on a system which can easily pollute an area with 30km radius for over 100000 years?
How far can we trust into this system which scars people whenever they here there is "some problem" with the plant?

What I want to say: Nuclear power plants deliver cheap and good energy, they run mostly stable, but whenever something goes very very very wrong - in a way things usually do not go wrong because it simply is unrealistic - then we should think about what we are doing there. We should recognize that we may have 99.999999% of the time the full control over what is happening with the reactor, but there is an unrealistic of maybe 0.000001% (just numbers, I did not look them up) chance the thing gets out of control. You know, if things go wrong it's not just "ouch, that was expensive", it's a lot more.
And everybody knows Murphy, and Japan will hate him from now on.


Lot of text, short conclusion: If we find good alternatives, we should make use of them - even if they are more expensive.
Currently however, it simply is not possible to get full energy supply without nuclear power plants.

German documentation about Tschernobyl everybody should have seen before arguing about nuclear power. It helped me to find a more stable opinion on this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TgczLGbZSA&playnext=1&list=PL575CD8CEA9A63CE8
10 parts, over 90 minutes of video - worth every minute.

well now i feel left out. i cant understand German i studied French in school not that i remember any of it but still.

Thinking about it you guys are the only people i talk to that do not live in the US. and thanks to google translate when you type something in German i can get a good idea of what your saying. but google has not managed to translate spoken words yet so i can not watch the video. i do like to see your guys opinions and points of view on world topics and im surprised how similar they are to my own even tho im on the other side of the world. i sure am glad you all know english

Sorry for the rant.

Firo has summed up my oppinion very well.
Back in 1986 I was a six year old boy and chernobyl has shaped my opinion
about security, risks, murphy and common sense.

You can´t really compare chernobyl with japan, but they share the same bad effects.

A risk of 0.000001% is to high when you look at the potential impacts.

The risks of tsjernobyl, would an organisation like CERN judge such a reactor, would be much higher than the risk that the Sovjet Union judged.
A risk of 0.000001% judged by a "science and welfare"-driven party is a neglectible risk. For if not, why haven't we started creating an anti-meteorite defense system yet? Granted such a risk is not manmade, still the answer would be: too costly compared to the neglectible risk.

But I do wonder how the reactor meltdown risk was judged in Japan. Did they anticipate a future earthquake? Did they took their chances by building one regardless, because they needed it for their progress?

Errors happen, but I am confident that nuclear reactor designs are now made in such a way that thermal meltdowns, like the one that almost happened in tsjernobyl, are simply not possible anymore. We are experienced enough to fully master the science; both on level of organisation/management and scientific knowledge. There's not a soul wandering through CERN that doesn't know what everything does. Unlike tsjernobyl. I believe we have grown up in that.

However, I can cope with the idea that, unless the whole world has grown up, we must not start building nuclear reactors everywhere. While we may have them under control, a terrorist attack could not be ruled out.

any terrorist can strap a dirty bomb under a car and drive into a highly populated area. Should we now ban cars because they run the risk of being used to set off a radiation bomb?

Oh boy, no way. Think about Opel, we saved them for no reason if we would ban cars! Better ban terrorist!

the risk isn't 0.000001%. it's more like 1% if you take into account all accidents and the total number of plants. ok, newer plants are safer but at the moment the risk still is 1% with all the old crappy ones around. russia even still runs many chernobyl type plants.

a dirty bomb doesn't consist of tons of material. such comparisons are silly.

@joozey: those commercial "space" flights use rockets too. they just don't start from the ground but from an airplane. and they basically just are longer parabola flights. they aren't able to reach an orbit and they probably won't anytime soon since if it would be that easy they would have gone into space that way much sooner. i guess this still will take a lot of research in scramjets and such stuff.

i also remember how my mother pulled me out of my sand pit and put me under the shower for half an hour as a kid.

edit:
who will build the sarcophargus in japan if worst comes to worst? this isn't the inhuman ussr where 100000s of soldiers can be forced to do it.

What I want to say was:
Every risk is too high when it comes to nuclear power.
Because the impact is irretrievable.

From wikipedia:


You can be sure that japan has done a good job here. I mean take a look at all the other power plants that survived the earthquake.

But it´s not enough and you can actually never be sure that it´s enough.
You can´t design accidents. Accidents get designed by itself.

http://www.infowars.com/alert-fukushima-coverup-40-years-of-spent-nuclear-rods-blown-sky-high/

EU-Energiekommissar warnt vor katastrophalen Ereignissen "in den kommenden Stunden"

what do you think this means?

it means that panic sells...
nothings gona happen...

Even the experts don´t seem to know what will happen.
Finally they seem to accept murphy.

I think the truth lies inbetween "OMG the earth is kaput" and "nothings gona happen".

sPIKe, you know the consequences of chernobyl.
Take this and add high density of population, more material, up to six reactors.
Then add common sense and unpredictable reactor behaviour.
The chances are big that there will be a massive contamination of a lot of people.


Sorry, I´ve got some relatives by marriage in japan.
They have survived the tsunami and the earthquakes.
And now they are jumping out from the frying pan into the fire.

The latest photos look by far more worrying than any short note or article concerning the disaster was so far...

I don't how much is true of the article linked by Ventilator... but if this picture shows the truth...

... things are pretty much fucked up.

Now look at the Fukushima plant again...

Frioball is right if the first picture is true then it does not look good. I'm glad I'm not anywhere near japan right now.

I have heard that anti radiation pills have been flying off the shelf in California. They are 10000 miles away from japan I dont think they have to worry about radiation for a while. Oh well when California has there massive earthquake and our nuclear plants have meltdown then everyone will already have the pills.

On the other hand... with those numbers of used rods as mentioned in the article, it would have been noticed as then the radiation must be much higher than officially stated...

Radiation pills are only good for some types of initial cancer, you still get radiated and mid/long range effects of the rad does not go away with that pill.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ill-people.html

That's the latest on the situation. They still do not have it under control and admitted that many people working on the situation will die. They plan on cementing it over like they did in chernoble.

I have to say that I don't give a damn about what the media (at least here in Germany) have to say about this. Pretty much all of them are just trying to sell the story and virtually started giving the reactors the count for multiple times. They often also bend the little information that exists to fit their needs like the cementing of the reactors. Of course there are preperations to cement the reactors because ... well if you start with them when thing have gone utterly wrong it's too late (i.e. unnecessary late)...

I just saw on N-TV that they even started to add in a "bang" sound to that video where we first saw an explosion at the power plant (at least I didn't know of a version with any audio)...

My very personal guess:
Nothing bad (i.e. worse than right now) will happen. Maybe we'll see some more caesium / iodine but nothing like in Chernobyl...

Radiation isn´t harmles. There´s no "harmless dose".
Statistically speaking there will be an increased incidence of cancer.

But we can´t predict the consequences of Fukushima,
just like we can´t capture the consequences of Chernobyl.

This is the real problem, imo.
Chernobyl isn´t "dead" or "ready" or something like this.
It´s an ongoing problem.

Also please remember the situation in northern japan and the dense population.

But isn't radiation all around us in the nature as well? As far as I have read they even use radiation to "mark" the gulf stream to measure it's movement. And what about the radiation coming from cole mining?

But maybe you are right and every dose of radiation even the one from the sun kills us over time. I mean, the skin of older people is not as clean as the one from young people. There are growing a lot of dark spots and bumps. Maybe this is life. Maybe it would be better to have fur like animals have.

I dont judge anything here, I just think out loud.

LOL. This is not the reason why skin gets older. This is a Kent Hovind Theory.
(Also, this would imply that moles don't get elder, as they aren't exposed to the sun )

A "harmless dose" is afaik a dose that isn't too much higher than the radiation that surrounds us all the time or a dose that kills less than very a small percentage of people exposed to it.

I haven't heard about marking the gulf stream so far, but I certainly know that they do the same to mark blood in a human's body to see if there are any areas without enough blood and stuff. This is "harmless" meaning that it most propably won't kill you (and not doing it would rather kill you if you are really sick), but doing it too often would of course increase the risk.

As a former member of the "ABC-Abwehrkommando" (NBC defense squad) of our military, there actually IS such a thing as a harmless dose and also quite harmless radiation. Alpha and Beta radiation, for example, are quite harmless, can be blocked by a very thin barrier (Alpha radiation can be blocked by tin foil, Beta by normal glass) and are also used medically, (chemo treatment) they don't pose a real threat as long as you aren't exposed to it 24/7. (duh) Gamma radiation, however, is quite a bitch and needs at least about 1,5 half meters of lead in it's way to prevent it from spreading, if I recall correctly. But there still is a harmless dose of Gamma radiation, which is quite low for humans, which also, of course, depends on your age and overall health. The meanest thing about radiation is, that you won't necessarily feel anything for a few years. (unless you are reeeaaally near a radiation source, of course) However, an overdose of radiation can and will raise the possibility of an outbreak of cancer and cause changes in your blood.

I'm more worried about the future of Japan and those people involved, as they will face a possibly big rise in cancer patients.... I'm not sure, though, the infos we're getting of Japan are still very vague and inconsistent. Let's just hope for the best and donate as much as possible.

"Alpha and Beta radiation, for example, are quite harmless"

...unless the source is ingested or inhaled, in which case they become extremely dangerous.
(I´ve quoted wiki here, because sometimes I can´t express my thoughts in english.)

Guess why they are wearing those suits and a gas mask - it´s not about gamma.



Yes, and we can´t do anything against the natural radiation.
Afaik it´s about 2-2,5 mSv per year here in germany.

The radiation of colemines and old coal-fired power stations is quite large.
In the long way we need a switch to renewable energy.


But we can´t compare natural isotopes with man-made, enriched isotopes that are
coming out of a containment with a propably half melted core when it comes to half-life and impact.





+1

You are probably right. But as a LOL hater I find your reaction totally overdosed. I mean, you state that you lough oud loud just because somebody wrote something you dont agree with. I try to imagine how you start a frantic loughing sitting on your chair in front of your PC, like a crazy guy.

I personally dont use LOL at all. First of all the reader will get the impression you are a kid and later it leads to misinterpretation just because a healthy personality would not start to laugh oud loud in real life only because some other person has another meaning. This is not like adult people behave, but I remember that we acted that way as school kids.

This is not a personal attack, I just want to help to show how this can lead to to a wrong interpretation of what you want to say.

Sorry about nitpicking - it could be one tiny particle that force a cell to mutate. (As I´ve said, statistically speaking).
So the natural radiation isn´t harmless either.

Afaik that's highly simplified though. You have mutations all the time. Our body has means to correct such mutated cells. It's just no 100% safe system and if it gets overwhelmed it won't be able to eat up a "bigger" tumor...

Radiation always was there and always will be there. It's just about not getting exposed to too much for our body to handle. But ok - even then it's no 100% guaranteed protection (but oh well in a world where we breathe and eat toxic stuff all the time it's not use getting hysterical over radiation) and one of course might argue where the line between an accetable and a too high dose rate should be drawn...

As far as I know even a high dosis isn't lethal per say. But the higher the energy the radiation is transmitting, the more likely you'll die.

I don't think there is any radiation that you can call "safe". No, the sun isn't "safe". But maybe there's a level at which you can say it's "no more than usual".

Either way I'll be happy without Nuclear power.

Whatever dose of radiation is considered harmless - Fukushima is wayyy beyond that dose.

Sorry about the "LOL". But I didn't write it just because I disagree, but because this is exactly the same as Kent Hovind said, who has been ridiculed on Youtube for that and other things.
I personally don't interpret "lol" as actual laughing anymore. It is used so often that it only means something like "that was a bit funny" for me. To really express that you actually laughed you have to use "rofl" or "lmao" imho.

I didn't want to attack you either.

this is kind of like chernobyl in slow motion. it's still not under control. the radiation levels get higher and higher and tons of salt deposits from the sea water seem to hinder cooling.

I think it WAS Chernobyl in slow motion. Now it more or less IS Chernobyl.

http://videos.arte.tv/de/videos/alles_im_griff_-3783544.html

Guter Link. Guck' mir das bei gelegenheit mal an. Thx!

http://videos.arte.tv/de/videos/der_erste_tag-3783540.html

Good video.
Again I learned something new. And so should everyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKHt-3wMuSY

About the political effect of chernobyl in germany.
Sounds familar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC0BTjgubAY

Must see (German).

Did you know it?
The EU has increased the radiation limit for imported food from japan.



http://www.tagblatt.de/Home/nachrichten/ueberregional/politik_artikel,-Fukushima-Krise-dauert-noch-Monate-an-_arid,129435.html

http://www.foodwatch.de/
http://umweltinstitut.org/radioaktivitat/allgemeines/grenzwerte-nahrungsmittel-864.html


Aside from the fact that we don´t import that much food it gives a negative impression.

Edit:
The EU denies that they have increased the limits.

Basically they have nothing learned and now they are using an
EU Regulation from 1987.

http://www.taz.de/1/zukunft/umwelt/artikel/1/eu-tolerant-bei-strahlen/

http://www.rp-online.de/panorama/deutsch...aid_981447.html

Cäsium does not taste so bad.
So I understand the increase.

Well, it seems they have learned something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIXYCu4ggdQ
über das einzige österreichische atomkraftwerk, das nie in betrieb ging, für schulungszwecke vermietet wird (in anderen atomkraftwerken kann man nicht im kern herumklettern) und inzwischen auch zum solarkraftwerk umfunktioniert wurde...



http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14963033,00.html

http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/34/34475/5.html

sowas ähnliches habe ich immer in simcity gebaut.

OMG - I had a discussion in another forum about nuclear energy in general and I was told that there exist new rules concerning where those wind turbines may be built. Those pretty much are in your neighbours backyard - horrible. It looks supern modern and nice but I guess next to no one would actually want to live there...

So I guess they still build them extremely close to residential areas...

NIMBY

http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/12/tepco-now-confirms-nuclear-meltdown-in-fukushima-reactor-no-1/
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/0,1518,762281,00.html

so it's two years later now...

http://www.4thmedia.org/2013/08/15/letti...rgery-on-a-vip/

the problem with the fuel pools sounds really serious.

what do think? are those articles that popped up recently exaggerated?

Usually it's worse than what we get to read...

Or even something completely different, from what we've been told...

they say evacuating the northern hemisphere might be necessary if something goes wrong with the pools. that's about as bad as it can get. shouldn't handling fukushima be a global concern then?