So long, and thanks for all the fish

It's time for me to pack my things as well and venture into new fields. Actually, I already wandered off a long time ago, but came back from time to time to see what's new here. This whole "once you are here, you will never leave" thing, you know?

Truth be told, this forum became one big, huge circlejerk lately, with Unity being the toast everyone is aiming for. The very few that are still working with gamestudio, rather than circlejerking over its memory, are all beginners, and I'm simply tired of seeing the same false knowledge being spread over and over again, together with the same questions asked over and over again. It's the same old song, sang for years now. I realize that sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at it, but I just wish that this community was more professional and more open to the outside world, instead of denying the fact that there is an incredible ecosystem just beyond the walls of this forum. Maybe it's because this is just a hobby for the most here, or because most of the competent people have already left, I don't know.

Not going to lie, I had a blast with gamestudio, lots of great memories are associated with it, and I made my first baby steps with it. But I have walked too far away from it by now, in way too many ways, and it's time to let go. I will miss some of you, I regret not knowing a few if you enough to miss them, and some of you I simply won't miss. I think you can all figure out for yourself which category you belong to.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Siddy pls

Didn't you write a post like this some weeks ago? As long as you stay in my ICQ list I'm not mad at you!

noooooo....

We'll see what really happens

I think this is kinda offensive and you are pigeonholing people in a bad way. Even if it is true that people tend to try out other technologies, chose to just hang around here, revive their memories or hardworking on things - they are as free to do so as you are. Also, as you met some people from here in real life already, and I can say that you were nice to them and they were nice to you, you should overthink some of your words, too.

Then you should really leave instead of complaining, because all beginners need as many help as they can get. If you hate that not everyone is instantly pro-level after writing their very first "hello world", you either say nothing out of respect or there is simply something wrong with you. Yes, it is tiresome to ground people over and over again that want to make the next MMORPG or to explain the usage of functions and wait(1), but one man can educate lots of people through educated, well written responses - and I am sure that you took in your lifetime benefit from that, too.

The users here are ranging approx. 12-80yrs with different backgrounds, time consuming reallife jobs (maybe non-IT related), they live in different countries (with problems for their people unknown to us), maybe they have childrens, have one or more girlfriends / wifes, like to do sports and are enjoying Gamestudio in the free time. I am 100% sure that you can tell this about all the people who use any other technology out there. There is no "professional game developers only" sticker on any forum. From 100 people in such a forum, I guess only a few are working seriously on a complete game or such, have a strong IT education and make money with that. Please realize that life is more than game development and not everyone can afford 24hrs a day for that. This has also nothing to do with being "competent" or so, because that can only match up with your personal definition and I have a strong feeling that your head is in the clouds about that. Sorry.

@HeelX: +1
@Sid:
Please don't leave use, your posts are always a joy to read! And if you want really want to go, think about coming back some times and say "hi" or "fuck you"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5YnQcppCQc

Yeah, don´t take anything / anyone too serious, especially not yourself.

Thanks for completely ignoring what I said and trying to make it seem like this is some kind of personal grudge or crusade @heelx.

I never said that beginners are bad, or that I'm better than everyone else, I said that I wish that this forum was MORE professional, not that this was a forum of professionals. It's not though, and it doesn't offer me anything new that makes it worth to come back. There is no discussion whatsoever going on about anything, and while I'm certainly just a beginner at best, the questions that are asked here don't provide me with anything. Of course I could just become a missionary and answer every single question, but as you said it yourself, some of us have girlfriends and families and see this just as a hobby.

I want to learn and see new things, and this forum is simply not the place to be for this. That's not meant as offense for the users here, because being a beginner is certainly nothing bad.


Yes, so what? The point is that no discussion happens. I wish I could learn from the people that toyed around with other technology but came back because the forum sucked them in. I can't, because there is no fruitful discussion happening. The simple solution is that I go somewhere where these discussions happen and where I can learn new things. Go and sue me for having my heads in the clouds.

Hm, I re-read your and my posts and I am convinced that I didn't ignored your words but you might be right that I understood them wrong. I think we just have different opinions and your tone and choice of words triggered something inside me that made me answer like that.



I still wonder why this is the reason for you to "officially" leave this place and write such a big good-bye post (for which I still don't know why people do that).

To sum it up, you want from us a more professional attitude, that we do our work with excellence, that we behave modest, somehow conservative, that we work with confidence, stay on schedule, that we try to be leaders in our profession, that we stay current with changes in the industry, share the information we have learned, that we take risks and agree to take on difficult tasks, and, last but not least communicate in a professional manner?

The reality is, that not everyone has such high ethical standards. Especially not in the games industry for various reasons and I think that this forum and the people here are not your target audience. Truth is, that I heard that other places in the internet - like the Unity forum, to come back at this particular point of your opening post - are very professional ... and plain boring.



Hm, well, then grab a book, go to university, attend gamedev related courses, try to learn a new engine - the possibilities are endless, but I guess I don't tell you new things. I for example enjoy this place a lot because I love working with Gamestudio and I see this place as a virtual Acknex-campfire in which we can talk and show projects and help each other. I don't think that it is worthwhile to write articles how to write a shader or how to design a spaceship in Cinema 4D or how you can achieve a great game design in first person shooters, --- because there are other places for that. When you come back here, it is very satisfactory to share these findings and explain how to transfer that to Gamestudio, that is worthwhile in my oppinion.



What do you want to discuss that isn't new? Just throw in some things and we can start. --- About the technology switch... well.. maybe there is no fruitful discussion because if you decide to switch, well.. switch. If you come back and tell us it sucked, welcome back. If you are interested how it went, ask. Fogman and Firo for example are trying out Unity at the moment and I don't know how they do their stuff but I am happy for them if they can do something with it - but specifically, for me it isn't interesting how you do a game with Unity because I decided that I will stay with Gamestudio for the next few years for various reasons. They COULD write a post how it went/it is going, but they prefer not to write it. You could ask for it, but it is not plain wrong that it isn't happening.

Sid, I have a certain feeling for what you are asking for and what you don't like about this place or certain people, it was not against your opinion in general. The best way to make this place more professional or whatever you think it might be, if that is possible, is to boost your professionalism by yourself, stay here and have a positive effect on the people here instead of ranting about it, -- because that is not constructive. And, ultimately, not professional

I've saw this thread a couple of times, yet haven't had a chance to respond. I am sad to see you go Sid. You seem like you grow your technical knowledge pretty fast for the usual forum peers on here. Moving on to newer/more powerful technology is a good thing though.

As for all the discussion about the forums flaws. I can see both sides. I've just learned not to take anything on the forum seriously unless its by someone I consider a serious user. I think this post should be taken as more of a description of why he's leaving, not as a criticism of the forum in general. I don't think there is really a reason to be butthurt on either side of the argument.

He is right though that there isn't too much discussion anymore. And how could you fault someone who has made a decision so that he maximises the amount of learning done? (Though it's a shame that this also stops your informative posts - opportunities for people like me to learn)

Not saying I'm not part of the discussion-problem, but what real debates (the kind where you end up learning something) have we had in recent memories?


Anyway, Sid, it's sad to see you go. You're obviously very talented. Where should we look to see the projects you'll be working on (your blog, I'd guess, but maybe you're more active on Twitter or who-knows).

All the best to you!

@heelx: There is no "unofficial" reason for me leaving. I get all your points, and I agree with you. The family like atmosphere, everyone knows each other, most are friends in real life. That's great, don't get me wrong, and I'm not trying to shift the scope of the forum here. But this isn't for me, I don't want to read about other peoples living room. Granted, I'm not forced to read it, fwiw, I'm not forced to participate in any thread here, the problem is that I'm missing the balance with other threads.
I'm not criticizing the forum for what it is, and by god I'm not trying to change it! The thing is, the scope doesn't fit what I'm looking for, so I'm simply going somewhere else.
Please don't take this as a personal insult, it isn't meant as one.

@lostclimate, error: Thanks you two!
I'm not really moving to new technology though (well, I kind of am, but... You are going to see). Either Nils or SchokoKeks (or maybe, but just maybe, I) will make a thread here in the upcoming weeks/months to present something pretty cool we've been working on.

If anyone want to follow my more personal projects, my blog or Github profile are probably the best way to go. I do frequent Twitter quite a lot, but honestly, my tweets are boring as fuck (and I can guarantee you that the majority of them are going to be rants about either ATI/AMD or Unicode in the upcoming time).

Well, I think that covers it so far (sorry, I haven't slept yet and I'm awfully tired, please excuse if I have missed something. I think I'll have to write a more detailed answer to heelx later today or this night). If there is anything, I have subscribed to this post, so I guess I will get emails if someone answers, and you can also send me PMs for which I definitely receive emails.

Edit: God damnit you lazy mods. It's not even a week since I stepped down as mod and the forum is already flooded with spam?

have a good time JustSid outside of 3DGS universe too, and whatever you are making, good luck for that!

another one go with the flow

As promised, here is the longer answer...


Let's start with the second, implied, question: Peer pressure.
There is no "unofficial" version, there is no grudge I hold against some users here that makes me want to leave the forum or something like that. I'm way too unsocial for that (I have received and sent about 20 PMs in my 5 years here). But that's also the biggest thing that makes me want to leave, while I enjoy a good off-topic thread from time to time, I really don't want that to be the majority of the posts. I hate Facebook for that very reason, and love Twitter; I can personally handpick what I read and it's so amazingly uni-directional interaction.
I suppose that sounds snobby as fuck, as if I was trying to tell everyone that I'm better than them, and please, that's not the case! I'm not trying to convert the Forum into something that I find pleasant.



Ha! I see what you did there, well played.
No, seriously though, I don't want to change the forum. I don't want the forum to develop a professional attitude, at least not in the way you describe it.
I actually decided against finger pointing, but to hell with it, look at this post. The user didn't even bother to comprehend the question. There is another infamous example that was in the Wiki and which I can't find, so I can't fingerpoint, but it basically was this:


It made me go up the walls so many times now, and it's still my goto example. It's old, but things haven't got better yet. The professional attitude I wish for? People knowing what they are talking about, instead of wildly guessing. Stack Overflow is so amazing for these kinds of things, peer reviewed answers and the karma system to reward users. And I can just browse questions and learn new things.
Obviously StackOverflow only works on Q&A style sites, not for a forum.



I whole heartily disagree with the fact that the Unity Forum was any good in terms of being professional, or offering high quality content. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make this forum into buttplug for stuck up, socially awkward kids like me.



Oh fuck off with Unity already
Post these kinds of articles (each word one link).
Spread knowledge, go outside of the box, discuss things. Or don't, I honestly don't really care that much, I can discover these articles and discussions about them on other platforms as well (did I mention that I'm leaving).



No offense taken, and I hope you took no offense either! I don't have any hard feelings, I just wanted to state why I'm leaving and be done with it, not start a holy war.
I'm not sure if staying would be the right choice though, nobody likes the fucking wiseguy that shows up in all threads and only tells people that they are wrong, but that's all I can offer (and it doesn't seem to change anything, except that people think I'm an asshole (which I am, don't get me wrong)). I'm not a Gamestudio user anymore, haven't been for years, and I'm not going to show a game I made with Gamestudio. I won't post links to articles as above either, because there doesn't seem to be an audience for them here, and I can engage in active discussions somewhere else.

Good luck Sid! Pop back in once in a while to show us what you have made, and be amazed that this forum still stands .

I forgot how much you people argue over the dumbest shit haha