How's 3DGS in 2022?

Hello!

So, I'm returning to 3DGS after a while away. I'd purchased the A7 version a while ago but have long since lost any of the info/software. So I'm basically starting from scratch.

I know A8 uses rather outdated tech relative to what's out there now, but it's exactly what I'm looking for. I want to create games that are more in the DX8/DX9/early-to-mid 2000s in terms of art style. So, I won't be missing any bleeding edge graphics or what not.

However, I'm wondering how things are? I see the forums are still pretty active. I'm just curious how things are in terms of support? If I have questions (and there will be) about stuff I just can't sort out myself, I'd like to know there will be folks who can help out, etc. And of course, once I'm fluent enough with it, I can offer help as appropriate, too.

Is that still the case around here? Or are there maybe other communities/forums for such interaction?

Thanks!

Well, I guess the lack of reply after 48 views is all the answer I need?

That's kinda sad. Not entirely surprising, though.

As dead as dead can be i guess.

And newest GPUs are dropping dx9 support, if that's not the 1000th final nail in the coffin i do not know what is.

And absolutely no sign from Conitec of intending to update it in any way.

Otherwise, why are they even still selling it, then? Kind of messed up.

Really too bad they are not going open source if the engine is no longer being developed A8.

They cant because they do not fully own it, as far as i know.

Iam still playing around with acknex.
But for serious projects, i would advice another software.

Yeah I use my own in-house engine for my serious projects.

WSI,

don't give up just yet. no-reply within 48 hours doesn't mean the engine is useless. Perhaps the users are busy with their own projects.

IMHO, I believe the engine still have value. In fact, within two weeks, I plan on uploading to YouTube a series of videos describing my experiences with the engine, along with the Torque game engine. Look out for Adventures in GameDev.

Except that the engine is last updated 6.5 years ago, and the developer said there is no intention to develop a new version.

I don't think the engine is dead. There are certainly still many who still work with the engine.
I installed my TimeRacer Game in March 2022 on my website ( https://www.timeracer.ch/ ) for download.
And the game runs flawlessly on my PC.
The graphics and the resolution are clear for today's standard.
No longer up-to-date. But it was fun to work with this engine.

Quad,


Originally posted by Quad,

Except that the engine is last updated 6.5 years ago, and the developer said there is no intention to develop a new version.


The same could be said of Torque3d and Blitz3d. I firmly stand in the camp that if a engine can perform the way you want it to, then use it. However, if you have the patience and time to use a modern engine like Godot, Unity, or Unreal and a retro engine like 3DGS, the go ahead and do so.

With the same logic guys, windows xp isn't dead too. You can install it and "use" it. But is it worth it in 2022 as a daily drive? Well, if you aren't masochistic then it is not. I don't think it's a good way to determine if product is alive or not by looking how many users are using it. In my opinion product is alive if it's developed/updated. And you can say whatever you want about acknex, but it is dead == abandoned by it's developer! You won't get any updates or support which is promised on the 'features' page. In 2022 there are better options not only future proof but also easier to learn and master. Will they be as fun to use as acknex? Well, I couldn't get used to them, but does that mean that acknex is alive? No it doesn't. I wouldn't advice anyone purchasing acknex nowadays, especially considering that it's abandoned by Conitec. It is still a good engine for a hobby, just to toy around with it. But it's not a good choice for developing commercial projects. You can say that this engine is great to use in 2022 to yourself, but not to newcomers. Don't pull them into this swamp.

As for Torque3d and Blitz3d. These are bad examples. Both are open source, so you can modify it, fix bugs and whatnot yourself.
If acknex was open source, it would have been a completely different dialog. But not only it's not open source, it's selling for 199$....

Links:
https://github.com/TorqueGameEngines/Torque3D
https://github.com/blitz-research/blitz3d

Best regards!

Yeah, i was going to say GameStudio A8 came around when iPhone 4S was released and was last updated long before iPhone4S was last updated.
I mean you can still use an iPhone 4S, but do you want to? Most of the apps won't work and soon carriers will drop 3G support, so you can't even use it as a phone.

Don't get me wrong, i love GameStudio and it has a special place in my heart - but that's a nostalgic place.

I would not use it for a new project anymore. Not that i do not want to but depending on your project A8 is straight up not an option. No mobile support, no console support. Supports only windows and directx9(which will probably be also dead in a couple of years).
Intel's latest ARC GPUs and integrated graphics on last 2 gen of CPUs do not support directx9 they rely on a translation layer developed by microsoft. Other gpu companies will probably follow suit in a couple of generations.

If you want your game to be alive in 2030 though, you can probably integrate that translation layer in to A8, it's open source: https://github.com/microsoft/D3D9On12
But that's like trying to integrate a 5G modem in to an iPhone4S

Edit: Well, yeah, windows currently does that conversion automatically for you. But come 2030, that layer will probably won't be in windows 15 so you will have to do it yourself.

OK.Here we go:

Windows 7: release date 2009, Man, totally outdated ! Dont use it !
Windows 8 to 10: Perfect for Ms. Moneypenny behind her desk ! (Buy me a new PC !) Huh, that program does not work anymore, thats strange. Because i updated? Video driver: Not available. Or is it the one with 2.5 Gigabyte size ?

Update to the next higher version of your operating system if you need it or not ! Dont Use Windows XP, because it works fine with GStudio and many other external tools. But reliable as it was/is: It is outdated. You better buy a new 64 bit PC with Windows 10 and lots of RAM. Games are better on Windows 7 or 10 than on XP. Thats for sure.


Strange people: They program in assembler ! They use old Toshiba Laptops with DOS (!) and make music with screamtracker or noisetracker. Must be crazy 8bit-Guys.

But even more strange: There is still a growing amount of text adventures for the sinclair spectrum. Also: Fandal publishes new Games for the Atari 800XL every last day of the month, Sometimes with exellent quality. What the hell is that ? That cannot be !!! Because this machine is sooo outdated. New C64 Games, yes even with commercical offers...

People make maps for DOOM or Unreal still. Why do they do that, if you can waste your time with dealing around with the newest buggy update for your operating system.

Would you like to drive a Jaguar E-Type or Mercedes Benz SL ? Dont' you even think about that, because they are sooo outdated.

OK. Enough provocation.

Gamestudio offers you everything you need to create a good PC Game. Especially if you are a single indi developer. To be admitted: The interface of GStudio is rather oldfashioned. But not overhauled like e.g. Blender.
The quality of a Game however belongs to you, your phantasy, skills and patientce. And the manpower you have availabel.

The GS engine runs stable and it is up to you what external tools you want to add for support of your work.

This forum is full of stuff and help you can download and use, you must have seen that. BTW if you expect other engines or development systems to be bugfree or that they do all the hard work for you, I think you are wrong.

Since it's release (A3) the game engine has been updated many many times always with new features the users (!) demanded. If someone is to blame that the engine was killed it were those users who underestimated the amount of work and time it needs to make a good game. However, as you can see on the front page of this site there are commercial games made with GStudio from the earlier days.



The guys who are here and repeatetly post "The engine is dead" never told us where the games are,they made with other engines.

Some last words IMHO: High tek shooters or counterstrike competitons are silly and stupid as can be: always the same. Game industry realized that and focused on recreating old games. However I think they cannot bring back the charm of the old C64,Atari,Amiga and DOS world. Retro Games are fun and mostly free. No need to buy 1000 Dollar machine to heat up your room...:-)

OK, now you can go to discord and find some friends or discuss with 3run why Gamestudio games made in Windows 7 are better than games made in WinXP ;-).

Neodumont
Many PCs, Many Operating systems (including Win 7 for Gaming only)

In addition:
https://www.borncity.com/blog/2020/09/08/windows-xp-auch-2020-nicht-tot-zu-kriegen/

Fact is that Millions of people are still using winxp. From the british army to many companies on this planet for controlling their equipment. Hard working people. Masochist for 3Run obviously

Neodumont

Really interesting discussion! Thanks to everyone participating!

Funny enough, I'm actually deliberately looking for older, more limited engines. For multiple reasons.

For one, they were generally simpler to work with - looking at Unreal Engine, or Unity, etc these days.. there's a whole learning curve to just using the software before you even get to the part about making games.

For another, I feel more limitations requires one to be more creative, turning those limits into strengths. For example, how Silent Hill took a means to limit draw distance for performance, and turned it into a way to enhance the game's atmosphere.

My favorite era of gaming, in terms of graphics was the PS2/PS3 era. When pixel shaders were still uncommon, and the artwork did more of the heavy lifting to create the look/feel of the game.

It's fortuitous, too, that retro, old-school style games/graphics are seeing a return to popularity.

I've also been looking at other engines, like the old Torque Game Engines, TGE and TGEA. But support for those has all but evaporated, especially as you can no longer purchase a license.

I don't think older DX versions will ever be completely eliminated, so long as people continue to want to play those old games using it. So that's not a concern. Maybe it'll be "emulated", or run through some "translation layer" or something. But with the power of computers now, I don't expect there'd be a noticeable difference.

There's a number of beautiful looking, fun games made with 3DGS, so it's certainly capable.

So, my concerns aren't 3DGS itself, or its capabilities.

My concern is more "will Conitec decide one day it's no longer worth selling or supporting the software with even a discussion forum?".

And it isn't an unreasonable concern.

GarageGames, creators of the Torque Game Engine and others, shut down their main website not long ago. All those resources are gone. Forums, tutorials, downloads, resources, etc. If you didn't download and backup your purchases before that, you're out of luck if you want to get them again... outside of acquiring by other means I don't advocate for. There's torque3d.org, but that's 99.999% focused on the MIT version of the engine, "Torque3D", which I'm not really a fan of - especially their latest 4.0 version. It feels like they're trying to make it as complicated as possible to use.

So... that's my concern. Not the age of the engine. Not its limitations. Just "can I safely expect there to be a community around this engine into the future where questions can be answered, info can be researched, etc?" Without that concern, I have no trouble at all purchasing a Pro license.

Are there any other active communities for this engine outside this website? I've seen some, but they seem to be abandoned, lots of broken links, etc.

The general consensus is "no" there is no guarantee of anything at this point. There was a 3DGS wiki available up until about a year or two ago, that's gone.

With that said, I love this engine and plan to continue using it as long as I can. I have released 3 games with it, and an working on number 4. I am all for using the limitations as strengths. “The enemy of art is the absence of limitations.” - Orson Welles. I am right on the same page as far as having a local game engine without needing online connectivity for it to work.

I think the folks are just trying to make sure people know that the support is gone, and the community is dwindling.

Hi,

I am in the same boat but I do have all my software and info. I just have not had time to get a project from started to completed. I am coming back to check for others working with the A7/A8.

Best Regards,
Jod