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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: MasterQ32] #451453
05/06/15 15:47
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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: FBL] #451642
05/14/15 11:49
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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: txesmi] #451741
05/18/15 20:45
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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: 3run] #451795
05/21/15 21:02
05/21/15 21:02
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Seen it laugh That speech and the movie in general was one of the factors that turned the public in America against Nazi Germany for real. We were still formally at peace with them when it came out, but where there might've been some positive sentiment left for Germany in the US before, by this point there was really none.


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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: Redeemer] #451828
05/22/15 19:12
05/22/15 19:12
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I'm not really sure what you are talking about Redeemer. This movie was one of the reasons why he'd lost popularity in US.
Quote:
The 1940s saw Chaplin face a series of controversies, both in his work and in his personal life, which changed his fortunes and severely affected his popularity in the United States. The first of these was a new boldness in expressing his political beliefs. Deeply disturbed by the surge of militaristic nationalism in 1930s world politics, Chaplin found that he could not keep these issues out of his work. Parallels between himself and Adolf Hitler had been widely noted: the pair were born four days apart, both had risen from poverty to world prominence, and the German dictator wore the sametoothbrush moustache as the Tramp. It was this physical resemblance that supplied the plot for Chaplin's next film,The Great Dictator, which directly satirised Hitler and attacked fascism. Chaplin concluded the film with a five-minute speech in which he looked into the camera and professed his personal, anti-capitalist beliefs. Charles J. Maland has identified this overt preaching as triggering a decline in Chaplin's popularity, and writes, "Henceforth, no movie fan would ever be able to separate the dimension of politics from [his] star image".

Some even say that this speech was actually one of the reasons why USA later on forced Charlie Chaplin to leave the country.
Originally Posted By: Charlie Chaplin
Whether I re-entered that unhappy country or not was of little consequence to me. I would like to have told them that the sooner I was rid of that hate-beleaguered atmosphere the better, that I was fed up of America's insults and moral pomposity

Originally Posted By: Charlie Chaplin
I have been the object of lies and propaganda by powerful reactionary groups who, by their influence and by the aid of America's yellow press, have created an unhealthy atmosphere in which liberal-minded individuals can be singled out and persecuted. Under these conditions I find it virtually impossible to continue my motion-picture work, and I have therefore given up my residence in the United States.
Chaplin's press release regarding his decision not to seek re-entry to the US


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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: 3run] #451835
05/23/15 08:08
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That's interesting but not surprising and it doesn't affect the fact that the movie itself became Chaplin's most popular film and spurned widespread denouncement of the Nazi regime in Hollywood and consequently the rest of the USA until we entered the war in 1941.

As for Chaplin himself: as I said it's not surprising that he himself would lose popularity in spite of the success of his film. The popularity of artists and entertainers ALWAYS goes down when they make politics and personal opinion a defining characteristic of their career and public image. Case in point for the game industry is Phil Fish. No matter what people think of that guy, most people agree that FEZ is a good if not a great game. Same with Chaplin: great comedian, but divided opinion about his political views. For the time, anyway.

The bottom line is: people across the political spectrum are often tied together by the creative works of individuals like these but schisms can just as easily be formed over the creators' viewpoints, and the two things shouldn't be confused because they're separate and highly independent of one another.

EDIT: I think I should clarify a slight inaccuracy in my last post though, anti-Nazi sentiment may not have been particularly strong in the USA when 'The Great Dictator' came out, but the film DID kickstart anti-nazi sentiment across the US, such that by the time Germany declared war on us, the majority of the public weren't exactly on friendly terms with them anyway.

EDIT 2: I should also mention that that same article you quoted lists many other reasons that Chaplin's popularity declined sharply through the '40s and '50s. The views he expressed through 'The Great Dictator' were only a part of it. And he lost popularity through 'The Great Dictator' not because it blasted Hitler and Nazism, but because that ending speech you linked was perceived by the public as anti-capitalist (which was a whole other issue entirely). Bottom line is, people weren't really offended by the film's lampooning of the axis powers. And if you read elsewhere you will see that the film did have a significant impact on the public perception of Germany in the US.

Last edited by Redeemer; 05/23/15 08:33.

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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: Redeemer] #451837
05/23/15 09:02
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I see what you mean Redeemer, and well it's only seems to be your point of view. But anyway just of out curiosity I want to ask you what you think about WWII in general. About USSR role etc.

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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: 3run] #451849
05/23/15 18:27
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What do I think about it? It's the largest and most destructive war in history. There's not much to be said beyond that... I'm glad there hasn't been another war on that scale again.

The Eastern Front in particular was by far the deadliest theater in the whole war. The USSR alone lost tens of millions of soldiers and civilians through all the fighting. They would have faced complete defeat within a couple of years too if Hitler hadn't made numerous strategic blunders, such as forcing his army to fight through multiple winters, not securing his supply lines properly, and laying an extended siege to Stalingrad/Volgograd (by far his biggest mistake in the eastern front). All those things left him wide open to counterattack and he was pushed successively backwards by the red army until they captured Berlin in 1945.

Something interesting I heard from my brother is that you can still sometimes find the remains of dead soldiers (ie bones and equipment) scattered in various places throughout the Russian countryside. Is this true? Given the scale of the war there it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is...

Last edited by Redeemer; 05/23/15 18:31.

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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: Redeemer] #451855
05/23/15 21:02
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Originally Posted By: Redeemer
Something interesting I heard from my brother is that you can still sometimes find the remains of dead soldiers (ie bones and equipment) scattered in various places throughout the Russian countryside. Is this true? Given the scale of the war there it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is...
Yes, that's true. There are even some groups calling themselves as a 'black diggers', they collect and cell weapons, clothing, medals and even vehicles and airplanes, it's illegal of course and a lot of those groups get caught but it doesn't stop other groups from digging and collecting things. Search youtube for them, you'll see a lot of videos where guys are showing what they've got from battlefields. You can also hear stories about accidents when people die from mines, shells which are still left in wildness (woods, swamps).. Many of those soldiers which where 'missing' after the war, were found only nowadays in those battlefields and brother graves.

I'm totally agree with you, it was a terrible war and hopefully nothing like that will ever happen. I see a lot of people arguing nowadays, who won the war etc.. For me all those disputes are senseless and more provoking, trying to loggerheads.. I think that we ALL won the war TOGETHER, we all suffered from this terrible war, and we all lost our relatives, beloved ones. And I really think that we need to respect all losses that we had back then and we need to stop arguing (particularly USA and Russia), cause I really find it disrespectful to all those solders who fought back then for our peaceful living nowadays.

My best regards


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Re: Fun Thread reloaded [Re: 3run] #451983
05/28/15 22:29
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