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Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: PHeMoX] #100195
11/27/06 15:18
11/27/06 15:18
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
F
fogman Offline OP
Expert
fogman  Offline OP
Expert
F

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
I know that the most coders want to control everything. Well, I build this tool for artists and beginners and not for experienced coders. So please give suggestions about features.

I have plans to include multiple bitmaps, explosions, collision, interpolating between positions / vertices, environment particles (fog, stars, clouds, dust...), models as 3D - particles (animations+materials!), sprite support (animations+materials!), dynamic lights, basic physics (bouncing) and a timeline where you can change every particle parameter (and more!) during lifetime.

So you could indeed create very unique effects if itīs finished with this features.
I say "if", because I donīt know if I can really handle all these things.

But Iīll release a demo for sure.
Believe me, when youīve a big project and you donīt want to waste time - you will love it. Even if you want to optimize / change the code afterwards.


no science involved
Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: fogman] #100196
11/27/06 15:21
11/27/06 15:21
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Quote:

Believe me, when youīve a big project and you donīt want to waste time - you will love it. Even if you want to optimize / change the code afterwards.




I don't have to believe it. I know it!


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: Machinery_Frank] #100197
11/27/06 23:58
11/27/06 23:58
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
F
fogman Offline OP
Expert
fogman  Offline OP
Expert
F

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
Update:
Iīve implemented emitter moving, the alphavalue of the selected emitter is adjustable via mousewheel.
But the biggest improvement is the system for "random range" values:



With the sliders on the left side you can change the particle parameters, with the sliders on the right side you can apply random values to every parameter. The random ranges are adjustable with the sliders.

In the picture above all effects are using their unique, randomized colours.

Next improvements will be a bunch of digits and arrow buttons. After that Iīll include this prototype into some of my projects, just to see if it works efficient.

Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: fogman] #100198
11/28/06 03:26
11/28/06 03:26
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
As an artist; I would like to see a 'chained'-boxes style effects editor, based upon a customizable module approach, giving full flexibility to everything the effect has to accomplish or consist off.

By the way, the 'uniqueness in effects' I'm talking about has little to do with adding random variation to a certain standard effect behavior or tweaking some sliders changing certain values of again predefined behaviors. The best effects are by no means random in their basis, they are designed thinking outside of the possible limitations of particle editors.

The kind of effects that would be off interest to me, are those consisting of vertex based animated particles mixed with basic movement formulas flying of and onto vertices. Perhaps even make dynamically spawned 'particle path nodes' of some kind along the way to add even more dynamic to the effect and make it look like a flood or liquid of particles.

There are a lot of complex effects possible using codes that aren't that easy to get out of any particle editor. For parts of an effect, having an editor may greatly decrease the overall production time, but like said by others, it doesn't make sense to make a particle editor for those effects.

Having said all this, unless you're not going to aim solely for 'beginner'-style effects with limitations, you are infact pretty much re-inventing the wheel indeed.

I'm curious nevertheless, so do not take this as a critic too much,

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: PHeMoX] #100199
11/28/06 08:42
11/28/06 08:42
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
F
fogman Offline OP
Expert
fogman  Offline OP
Expert
F

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
Quote:

By the way, the 'uniqueness in effects' I'm talking about has little to do with adding random variation to a certain standard effect behavior or tweaking some sliders changing certain values of again predefined behaviors. The best effects are by no means random in their basis, they are designed thinking outside of the possible limitations of particle editors.





This is the reason for the planned timeline. I know that adding random values doesnīt make a good effect, but itīs a needed option for such an editor. Usually I have to fiddle around for a long time with random values until I like the effect. So this option already saves me time.

With the timeline youīll be able to change every parameter during particle lifetime.
I donīt re - invent the wheel, Iīll make it faster.

I like your "modules" idea, but I donīt know how this would fit into an ingeme editor.


no science involved
Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: Machinery_Frank] #100200
11/29/06 10:36
11/29/06 10:36
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 186
Beneath the Surface
alpha12 Offline
Member
alpha12  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 186
Beneath the Surface
Quote:

Quote:

the main problem with us is free or not




Why is that a problem? It is simple: You don't have to use it. You are not a software messie. You don't have to collect everything.

But if you need it really for your game project then it will be worth every cent you pay.



thats the problem with the indie community,just because iam not show off my project doesn't mean iam not doing something ,people tend to decide by just the posting count and judge by simple unproved information,btw from what point of view iam collecting software??

Last edited by alpha12; 11/29/06 10:45.
Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: alpha12] #100201
11/29/06 12:12
11/29/06 12:12
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,856
TheExpert Offline
Senior Developer
TheExpert  Offline
Senior Developer

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,856
I agree with Phemox :

"There are a lot of complex effects possible using codes that aren't that easy to get out of any particle editor."

perhaps but for standard effects like smoke and other things an editor
is really usefull instead of
- adjsuting values in the code
-relaunch 3DGS ,
-readjust values int he code etc ... etc ..

and particle is not the same thing as Effect (effect can be anything from mesh deformation to anything else ...), particle is the basic particle system that can be used for lot of things.

"you are infact pretty much re-inventing the wheel indeed."
I don't think : if we could edit any particle in the scene in real time with a real panel properties ,it could be very usefull.
a real panel , not only sliders.

And a new scene real time editor (not made by Conitec but by a user) with shadows editign , shaders etc ... is in the works
perhaps it will have particle editing ?

well keep it up , polish it, perhaps it will be good

But like lot of pople i will never pay for it
Triple X is really complete and fantastic no need for a new particle editor

Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: TheExpert] #100202
11/29/06 12:21
11/29/06 12:21
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
F
fogman Offline OP
Expert
fogman  Offline OP
Expert
F

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,506
Germany
Quote:

a real panel , not only sliders.





What do you mean with this? Setting the particle parameters directly through inkey? Iīve this added to the feature list.


Quote:

perhaps but for standard effects like smoke and other things an editor
is really usefull instead of
- adjsuting values in the code
-relaunch 3DGS ,
-readjust values int he code etc ... etc ..





Ahhh, thanks.

When Iīve implemented the arrow buttons and some code to include the ressource in any project, Iīll make some tests. After that, I want to make a first implementation of the save/load system and the wdl-export.
Then I can make a useful demo and you can try out the tool.

Depends on how much time I have.

Edit: As far as I know, GameEdit will not cover particle effects.

Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: fogman] #100203
11/29/06 12:41
11/29/06 12:41
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,856
TheExpert Offline
Senior Developer
TheExpert  Offline
Senior Developer

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,856
by panl editing : i meaned that
panel

Okay for GameEdit and if one day it will be available

for your tool keep it up, polish it (visually also),
like i said, perhaps it will be usefull
Only a final demo will tell us.

But don't expect to make money fi your plan is to sell that (well perhaps a little caus i've seen people selling also very simple models that can be found
for free )

Re: PartsEd - Ingame Realtime Particle Editor [Re: TheExpert] #100204
11/29/06 13:05
11/29/06 13:05
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
TheExpert and Alpha12: Don't expect too much from free software. Fogman is a really skilled c-script coder. He can create a very quality tool, just look what he has done in the last time (Amoc, MessingMoves).

I just speak for myself and my experience. Here is an example: I found tons of tutorials for Lightwave. Most of them are useless. I bought a book and it delivered so much knowledge, amazing. Now I bought a modelling tutorial "Joan of Arc" for Lightwave with more than 120 pages describing every detail of modelling, unwrapping, texturing and animating.

You see from this example that commercial quality is still superior. Because of that I don't like the whining for free stuff.

Did you ever searched quality textures? You will find millions out there in the net. But most of them are simple fotos, not tilable, wrong colors, shadows and highlights in the fotos. Most time they are useless. You need alot of time to prepare them yourself. You could even shoot the photos yourself.

But many people are collecting free stuff just because it is free. A little price will stop that


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