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New Features, Thanks :-(
#135793
06/11/07 20:33
06/11/07 20:33
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
OP
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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Conitec new features = another new learning curves Wow, thanks a ton for all the new features, but why make everything obsolete everytime a new thing comes out? Just when I learn it, then it's gone.  C-SCRIPT: Thanks a lot for lite-c, but now that c-script is obsolete, then eventually I'll have to learn it. Or will I ? Why not just add in more commands to the existing c-script? But no, making it obsolete is more cool? A6 TEMPLATES: Instead of adding onto and improving the A5 templates, then it was decided to junk them entirely and come out with A6 templates, which, btw are hard to edit and customize, because of all that GUI code in them. Are we expected to use that GUI template if we ever make a different type of game than a shooter or RPG? Something different would require some editing and A6 templates are hard to decipher.  If A6 templates was like this, then how about A7 ones? EEEgghhh. I just have to wonder about these things. I think we have better things to do than learning a new system every time Conitec decides to obsolete something. We have better things to do, like actually --> Finishing a game. Isn't that more important than learning a new feature? An UN-FINISHED game is worthless. Just sits on a hard drive somewhere. My Request: I request a easily "editable" movement template that supports LAN like A5 had in the future. That is a template that has lots of comments in them. I think future customers of Conitec would benefit from this. Because the ones editing templates are the ones that potentially could make something totally unique and also BIG. The ones clicking together games in A6 style are the ones probably that won't hit it big. That is my recommendation. lol 
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: Ran Man]
#135794
06/11/07 21:07
06/11/07 21:07
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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if Conitec actually had to make a game or was even interested in games then the whole paradigm would shift, as it now they seem to have their heads in the sand.
I think thats why you have other commercial engines do so much business, because the programmers actually are making the engine for the end-product of game development, NOT to make a game development platform for others. If jcl had a real game development pipeline breathing down his neck he might start producing. If he had millions pushing on his engine development he might be inspired to put it together right, but as it is now I dont think Conitec has really stepped up to the seriousness that is needed because they think they are only developing for a bunch of kids or something.
your right about the new templates, trying to make all these click together GUI things just made the a6 templates hard to decipher. The old a5 templates were easier to figure out.
you would think that the game engine would have evolved in terms of stability, new features and ease of use over the years, but it really hasn't improved.
and spending time relearning "new features" is a pain in the neck, especially if the new features dont really improve things much...
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: NITRO777]
#135795
06/11/07 23:48
06/11/07 23:48
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
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You guys are right. Here's my bitch list regarding the changes: -I hate that the new WED compiles my levels 2 to 10 times as quick. I was used to putting my level into the oven and going out and playing a few rounds of golf and coming back a few days later when it was cooked. Now I barely have time to go out to lunch and the level is done.  -And don't get me started on the new types! Strings and vars, that's all there was, that's all anyone could need or even wish for. But now I have ints, and bools and structs and all those other messy constructs that allow me to make linked lists and hash lists and others lists I can't even pronounce! God what a pain to have so many options!  -But the templates are the worst! It took me 3 years of working with 3DGS everyday to finally understand the templates and now that I do, they change them on me. I mean I purposefully didn't learn how to do the things the templates did, I closed my eyes to their obvious solutions and carved out pieces of my brain if I thought I was learning how to do anything on my own, because I love to do things without really understanding them. Why can't they leave bad enough alone I say?  -And it will take me at least a month or two to learn how to do things the "A7" way... and who has that kind of time when they are in the fast paced world of game development!? I mean in that amount of time someone will have stolen my idea, produced it, found a publisher, sold my game, run off with my woman, and sold my babies. Think of how distraught I, as a father, would be if someone stole my game! And all because we had to re-learn the new semantics of a pre-existing language...  Well I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it! (PS: Oh, and I was perfectly happy with my 16 FPS. Now I average 60 FPS and that is 44 frames too many. C'mon Conitec... there are only so many frames one man can handle in any given second!!!)
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: fastlane69]
#135796
06/12/07 00:09
06/12/07 00:09
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18
f4ktor
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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@fastlane69: One of the best posts I have read here =) This thread actually was keeping me away from buying A7 Com but I think your post just took 200.- out of my wallet, placed it in front of my PC and let me spend it tomorrow =)
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Selling: MaxGUI ($15) - AC3D ($25) - LW engine + 3DWS ($111)
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: fastlane69]
#135798
06/12/07 03:14
06/12/07 03:14
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
-I hate that the new WED compiles my levels 2 to 10 times as quick. I was used to putting my level into the oven and going out and playing a few rounds of golf and coming back a few days later when it was cooked. Now I barely have time to go out to lunch and the level is done.
-And don't get me started on the new types! Strings and vars, that's all there was, that's all anyone could need or even wish for. But now I have ints, and bools and structs and all those other messy constructs that allow me to make linked lists and hash lists and others lists I can't even pronounce! God what a pain to have so many options!
-But the templates are the worst! It took me 3 years of working with 3DGS everyday to finally understand the templates and now that I do, they change them on me. I mean I purposefully didn't learn how to do the things the templates did, I closed my eyes to their obvious solutions and carved out pieces of my brain if I thought I was learning how to do anything on my own, because I love to do things without really understanding them. Why can't they leave bad enough alone I say?
-And it will take me at least a month or two to learn how to do things the "A7" way... and who has that kind of time when they are in the fast paced world of game development!? I mean in that amount of time someone will have stolen my idea, produced it, found a publisher, sold my game, run off with my woman, and sold my babies. Think of how distraught I, as a father, would be if someone stole my game! And all because we had to re-learn the new semantics of a pre-existing language...
Well I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it!
(PS: Oh, and I was perfectly happy with my 16 FPS. Now I average 60 FPS and that is 44 frames too many. C'mon Conitec... there are only so many frames one man can handle in any given second!!!)
LOL fastlane, not everyone likes to kiss ass like you do. some people have legitimate complaints, if you cant understand it the you could just shut your mouth, nobody asked you anyway.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: NITRO777]
#135799
06/12/07 03:46
06/12/07 03:46
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 677
0x00000USA
MrCode
User
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User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 677
0x00000USA
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I think I'll stay put, too. I don't like the idea of having to learn a whole new syntax (Lite-C). I'm still learning the finer points of C-Script! I might get an early A7 version, but once C-Script is gone, I'm staying with the latest version with the C-Script compiler. Well, that is until if and when I finally do adjust to the winds of change, .
Last edited by MrCode; 06/12/07 03:50.
void main()
{
cout << "I am MrCode,";
cout << "hear me roar!";
system("PAUSE");
}
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: Orange Brat]
#135801
06/12/07 05:59
06/12/07 05:59
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
OP
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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Quote:
But now I have ints, and bools and structs
Yeah, but who cares about that?
You don't need ints and bools, because that is a VAR.
I can do anything I want to do with C-Script. It's very flexible.
What are they trying to do? Save a few kilobytes of memory? Geez, God I'm so impressed. 
Quote:
Oh, and I was perfectly happy with my 16 FPS
Yeah, and that was exactly what I saw, when I enabled the A6 movement templates with all those shadows. The frame rate just got trashed. After re-starting in A5, then it went back up again.
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CScript won't be developed in the future and this was obvious and even officially announced months ago.
Okay, but WHY? Why do they force everyone to learn something else, when all they had to do was to modify the existing language and add features to it?
And then after we all learn lite-C, then we'll all have to learn a new language called HEAVY-C in a few years, because lite-C will be obsoleted.
Where does this end anyways?
Quote:
C-script and Lite-C are remarkably similar.
Hmmmn, yes I could learn it, but I just wish they would be more "backwards compatible" sometimes.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: Orange Brat]
#135802
06/12/07 06:24
06/12/07 06:24
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,551
Netherlands
D3D
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,551
Netherlands
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Some members here will say that Conitec is crazy to use Lite-C instead of LUA. Others just want C-Script to stay forever. This is what happend in the past when C-script was called World Definition Language. Just little scare for new things in the beginning. Just like Orange Brat said. Lite-C is very similair to C-Script, in my point of view also more robust and serious. The only thing missing are more workshops. However, George did a good job so far teaching the basics of the new language. Also converting C-Script -> Lite-C is not that hard with TripleX. What I learned is that if you do want to produce a real game. Stick to one stable version of the engine with the features it offer at that time. Don't update the engine unless 100% backward compatibility is guaranteed.
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