I guess people can't handle the idea of no God. They all seem to wonder why would there be a God, when the bible is wrong and total rubbish.

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i could go on liek this for hours...
you know what? im geting sick of this. anybody who just stops and thinks about this will realize that there cannot be a god. because god is a paradoxon in himself. its not possible. and if there is a god, he is not allmighty. and if he is not allmighty, he is no god.

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You're right. Because God is almighty by (our!?) definition God can not exist. To say the least, it doesn't make sense whatsoever that we can't see/determine or in whatever other way know about his presence. No presence is no presence, why do religious people in general try to make things more complicated than they actually are? "No, he's there ... you uhm just can't see or notice him! Haha!". Right ... whatever.

The same goes for Jesus in a way. I really don't understand why he supposedly died/was killed when he's the "(only) son of God". Doesn't make much sense that you die when your dad is of 'immortal bloodline' so to speak. No matter the purpose of his death, it's simply flawed. Also if Jesus really would have died for 'us', then it would make more sense to publicly commit some sort of suicide.

So anyways ... Jesus has to have been born as a normal human, hence why I believe that if anything, he simply was a charismatic person that rebelled against the system of his time. Again, that is if he existed at all.
Because there was a vote on Jesus' character description by the church, I pretty much doubt that he existed in whatever way the bible describes. Besides ... Jesus never wanted to start a religion, control people, distort people and ultimately kill people, right? Religion is the perfect slavery, just look at Scientology and it's 'zero labor cost'-build structures... the funny thing is both religions unconditionally believe in a book as being the truth. (again, why would there be a Christian God, when the bible is wrong? in fact, why would you STILL believe in a Christian God when you know the bible is wrong and do not believe in it? )

Cheers

PHeMoX I agree with you fully in your last statement. Althought I present myself as a Chrisitan in public society, I believe the Bible is wrong. How can the Bible be totally correct when it wasn't even written by the man himself?

I wouldn't mind someone posting a bit of the Bible to defend their point, and I'll take my stab at a counter-point.

There's no point in arguing whether there's some god or not. You cannot argue about something that's proven to be not there. And, in case someone WOULD actually be able to proof he's there, that would be a proof that god does not exist, because it's in his nature not to be measured by men, otherwise he wouldn't be god.

You see - god is nothing to be argued about with logic and science, since god is the OPPOSITE of science:

Science only exists with some sort of proof.
God only exists without proof.

It's totally pointless mixing these two. There CAN be no conclusion whatsoever. If there was, it would be wrong, simply because it couldn't be right. ;-)

>>>Besides, who would ultimately accept an "it's true because we said so" argument??

Well, I don't, but although I'm an atheist, I can see the problems occuring with god vs. science.

I am a science-loving man, and thus, I can see where science will not help to improve matters. And furthermore I know that there are things that we don't know and can't say for sure (that is, today. Don't know if we'll discover the meanings of it in the future).

For example, you write:

>>If God can't ever be measured, why would he exist nonetheless?

I think, if he "exists", he just couldn't be measured with human technology. Even if we got a proof that god exists, let's say he drops down another 10 commandments from the sky, we wouldn't know *what* exactly he/she/it is, wouldn't we? And to measure something, you need a device for measurement. And you can't build a device for measering something you don't know anything about -> See, you can't construct a thermometer if you don't know what temperature is at all.

Take the human consciousness: We know that it's there, because it's obvious. We know it BECAUSE we know it (same reasoning as with the "god exists because he exists" theory). But if we look into a persons brain, we only find very small things. We can measure these small things like electrons and so, but we can't measure consciousness itself. Nevertheless you would claim that you're conscious, wouldn't you? ;-)

Maybe god is something very similar to this consciousness, only in a much much bigger way. What's an electron for us may be a planet/star to god. Or a galaxy. Or even a universe. That means we CAN measure the "small" things like a star, a galaxy. But we are not able to see that a quadrillion of quadrillion of galaxies forms a thought of god.


>>>So why wouldn't god be a god when we measure him or when he shows himself to us tomorrow? Do you know his nature?

Hehe, that only proves that humans tend to squeeze god in some human shaped form. When I think of a possible god, I don't spend a single thought on an old, long-bearded man. That's just rubbish made up for children. IF there's some sort of god, a creator able to form worlds, it has to be outside our reach of understanding. Why? Because I wouldn't regard it very god-like if he only was able to create ONE world. ONE single planet. What's with all the other planets, suns, galaxies? If they weren't created by god because god only made earth and humans, then who created all this? Other gods? Would be a very ungodly god if god himselfs depends on others to build a sun for him before he can create the earth that rotates around that sun ...

>>>Why does god have to be almighty? He too may be bound to nature rules.

Then again, it would not be god for me (and almost all other people, I think). You simply cannot be bound to nature rules AND create these rules at the same time. He'd just be another form of life or being and thus mortal. Yes, it MAY BE that "god" is a mortal being, a very powerful being. But it would not be a god then. Just some powerful being.