Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Change chart colours
by 7th_zorro. 05/11/24 09:25
Data from CSV not parsed correctly
by dr_panther. 05/06/24 18:50
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
4 registered members (AndrewAMD, bigsmack, 7th_zorro, dr_panther), 1,364 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Hanky27, firatv, wandaluciaia, Mega_Rod, EternallyCurious
19051 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 4
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Understanding node-less AI for prototyping #174418
12/22/07 21:25
12/22/07 21:25
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline OP

.
Nems  Offline OP

.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Well like many, scripting is basically my weakest point and now, having been at it for over 4 years, graphics, my strongest point, is suffering so I need to advance my learning curve and get a few things working at a basic level for me.

AI is critical! period.

Nodeless AI can give lots of good looking behavior routines from obstacle avoidance to hieght adjusting for both ground and air based AI and we can always get a bot to zero in on player thru vec_dist or scan functions then get it to 'hunt' down the player or avoid as needed but most require a lot of trials before the routine is found so all in all, the real problem with AI in GStudio is using routines to work with model terrains and levels (where the default block geometry provides both walls and content to work with) but models only can be accessed thru trace, dist and texture names I have found.

Nodeless AI is good to use in water pools, large rooms or confined outdoor areas where pathfinding is not an issue and adds a great deal to the believability of the game.

So what I am proposing here is a listed methadology from experienced users who know how to handle these issues and provide a layout of the methods employed to overcome common AI nodeless issues in both block and entity levels either as working or theory discussions.

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nems] #174419
12/22/07 23:45
12/22/07 23:45
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles Offline
Expert
Damocles  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
To hunt down the player you can create "nodes" o the fly,
that store past positions of the player. These nodes can be used for an AI to trace and follow the
payers path, when he tries to escape.

You dont always need to implement a pathfinding, if you keep the levels and abilities of the AI (regarding pathfinding) simple.

But simply: the more effort you put into AI, the more interesting the enemies will get.

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Damocles] #174420
12/23/07 03:57
12/23/07 03:57
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
G
Gumby22don Offline
Member
Gumby22don  Offline
Member
G

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Quote:

So what I am proposing here is a listed methadology from experienced users who know how to handle these issues and provide a layout of the methods employed to overcome common AI nodeless issues in both block and entity levels either as working or theory discussions.




I really think this is a good idea, and will contribute as I work it through myself - Coincidentally, I like to think AI is my strongpoint and graphics my weakpoint.

I'd also say nodeless handling is great for client-side handling of movement, if nodes of a server-side pathfinding are passed to the clients, and they then move on each client with flocking/ avoidance/ etc. strategies, to get a reasonable intelligence, and keep them "following" where the server says they should be. (standard lag/ prediction plus flocking/ avoidance)

If anyone has "standard" avoidance movement to place here as a start, I'll experiment and put my own contributions on top of it. I'm currently still working the server side, with automatic node construction and a-star pathfinding returning a list of nodes or points to get close to on the way. I'm not looking to steal someone's code either, but I think this discussion could be great for those looking to start prototyping in 3dgs without the 3 months background work on basic movements. (say 2 weeks running through our expert's opinions and samples to get a rough prototype that can then be re-written to suit their own plans once the graphics/ models and levels are coming together)

Don
have a great day

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Gumby22don] #174421
12/23/07 17:37
12/23/07 17:37
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 733
Whitefish, Montana
JazzDude Offline
User
JazzDude  Offline
User

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 733
Whitefish, Montana
Raiden has offered avoidance code that may be helpful in this thread:

web page

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: JazzDude] #174422
12/29/07 23:56
12/29/07 23:56
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline OP

.
Nems  Offline OP

.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Yes, Raiden posted a beauty but I havnt had the time to work with it though.

Here is a link to an old project I havnt updated or revisited but adequatly describes the node less AI I have derived or edited from Georges AUM series and other contributors. (7 mgbs)

It doesnt work as well published as it does in dev mode.

The test also incorporates Leonardo's bone anims and dust too I think as well as a number of other scripts from various users.

You will find yourself probably jiggaling around, just use wasd to move, w + r to speed up, mouse left to fire cannon, mouse middle to fire homer and observe the behavior of both the air and ground based AI from both a passive and active perspective.
Use the 'radar' to locate prey when closer, drive staright ahead almost to find them.
Firing the cannon will help to orient you to the AI direction.

All scripts are available.

The AI is from a direct contribution by a contributor whom I have forgotten but is either tuscharten, turrican or Domacales, I will get it right eventually and give proper credits as soon as I am able to.

Hope this helps to extend the discussion.

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nems] #174423
12/31/07 19:09
12/31/07 19:09
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline OP

.
Nems  Offline OP

.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Anyone tested out the above linked demo?
Need more thoughts on the subject if theres any to be found.

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nems] #174424
01/03/08 22:59
01/03/08 22:59
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 50
N
Nomad Offline
Junior Member
Nomad  Offline
Junior Member
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 50
Thanks for the link but I am too new to comment deeply.
From what I saw it all shows rather believable AI but the flyers are too locked into circling around, how would you work it so that AI only cirlces 2 times at most?

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nomad] #174425
01/05/08 19:06
01/05/08 19:06
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline OP

.
Nems  Offline OP

.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
The circling around can be tweaked by editing its pan and period to hang around player untill a shot opens up.
Its all litle steps as shown in AUM series node-less AI, which need to be tweaked and tested untill it work rights.

Have removed the link as lots of downloads are happening but no replies (bad for my server bandwidth) so if any want to see it, I'll PM the new link.

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nems] #174426
02/16/08 04:55
02/16/08 04:55
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline OP

.
Nems  Offline OP

.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Link back up now

Re: Understanding node-less AI for prototyping [Re: Nems] #174427
02/29/08 20:54
02/29/08 20:54
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
xXxGuitar511 Offline
Expert
xXxGuitar511  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
Well, you could always help me with my new AI project. Using Fixed Effectiveness Projection & conditional probability. It's a longshot, but eventually will turn out well...

but aside from that, you could always use a very basic AI:

Code:

if (player visible)
{
if (player close)
{
attack;
}
else
{
run towards player;
- avoid obstacles;
}
}
else
{
if (I am where player was last seen)
{
if (player visible)
{
continue chasing
}
else
{
error("[censored]...");
}
}
else
{
.go to where I last saw him/her
}
}




I found this code to work generally well, along with some simple obstacle avoidance (such as Raiden has provided)


xXxGuitar511
- Programmer
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  HeelX, Spirit 

Gamestudio download | chip programmers | Zorro platform | shop | Data Protection Policy

oP group Germany GmbH | Birkenstr. 25-27 | 63549 Ronneburg / Germany | info (at) opgroup.de

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1