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modern render features to create realistic visuals #178684
01/19/08 10:33
01/19/08 10:33
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
I would like to mention some interesting features that could help to create realistic visuals in real-time.

The first of it is called "directional lightmapping". It is a very fast method and works in Source engine or Unreal3. So it is rather old now but can still create great lighting through a combination of static lightmaps and some normalmaps that help to create realistic lighting in certain areas of the lightmapped scene:
http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9907459/directionalLightmaps.pdf

Besides that I would like to see real-time ambient occlusion as an option. There are links all over the net and articles in books like "GPU Gems 2". Here are a few examples:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/b-cam/Papers/Kirk-2007-RTA/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ltokheim/ambenv/

And a third very interesting option is the availability of real-time global illumination. You can find also very much articles about it when you Goolge with "real-time global illumination". Here are some examples:
http://graphics.cs.ucf.edu/GPUassistedGI/GPUGISubmission.pdf
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kayvonf/papers/seniorthesis03.pdf
http://realtimeradiosity.com/
http://www.gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/Advanced%20Rendering/Global%20Illumination/index.html

You can see that those topics are heavily discussed and will get implemented in many rendering technologies out there.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Machinery_Frank] #178685
01/19/08 17:03
01/19/08 17:03
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Minbar
M
MaxF Offline
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MaxF  Offline
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M

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Minbar
Hi

I vote for all 3


Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: MaxF] #178686
01/21/08 17:36
01/21/08 17:36
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,252
Hummel Offline
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Hummel  Offline
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Posts: 2,252
I think everybody would vote for all - but it´s really a lot of work to develop and implement it in the engine. Maybe conitec could buy this and implement...

Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Hummel] #178687
01/22/08 13:42
01/22/08 13:42
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,619
Germany
Scorpion Offline
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Scorpion  Offline
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if i get it right you can do realtime occlusion mapping with the engine already...somebody just have to code the shader

Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Scorpion] #178688
01/22/08 15:37
01/22/08 15:37
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Thanks Scorpion. I am sure, you can do everything if you code it through C++ plugins, SDK, Lite-C or whatever.

But we ask for working features here, ready and available for users to make games.


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Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Machinery_Frank] #178689
01/22/08 15:51
01/22/08 15:51
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 980
Aue, Sachsen, Germany
W
Wicht Offline
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Wicht  Offline
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W

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 980
Aue, Sachsen, Germany
@Scorpion: Yes, you are right. One suggestion...

You dont need DirectX oder openGL. You can write your own Graphics-Library.
With Lite-C ís nothing impossible.

State-of-the-Art-Out-of-the-Box-Features are for beginners.

Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Wicht] #178690
01/22/08 22:16
01/22/08 22:16
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
I would like to remind to my initial post of this thread.

Conitec, please dont ignore it! I made this suggestion to help and to deliver some ideas. I am sure that such eye-candy features will attract many customers, not only hobby developers.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Machinery_Frank] #178691
01/23/08 04:56
01/23/08 04:56
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline
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JibbSmart  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
he only said shader :| no plugins. it's a nice thing to have built in, and i'm not going to go into another argument about the difference between "possible" and "already-supported", but Scorpion said "shader", not "plug-in".

julz


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: Scorpion] #178692
01/23/08 09:04
01/23/08 09:04
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
A
adoado Offline

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adoado  Offline

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A

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Posts: 503
Australia
Quote:

if i get it right you can do realtime occlusion mapping with the engine already...somebody just have to code the shader




I think there is only one method for 'realtime' calculations of ambient occlusion and thats using Crytek's screen space ambient occlusion idea, but like you said, we just need someone to write the shader

It should already be possible in 3dgs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but so far I don't think any game at the moment uses GI, Radiosity in realtime? I think at the moment they are too fps-hungry...

Thanks
Adoado


Visit our development blog: http://yellloh.com
Re: modern render features to create realistic vis [Re: adoado] #178693
01/23/08 09:41
01/23/08 09:41
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
I am happy to read that this is possible. Still I would be more amazed if it is available for our prototype game

If you say that those techniques are too fps hungry then maybe I should mention the concept of precomputed radiance transfer (PRT).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precomputed_Radiance_Transfer
http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/j.kautz/PRTCourse/
http://www.siggraph.org/s2003/conference/papers/papers4.html

And here is a German article as PDF file:
http://wwwcg.in.tum.de/Teaching/SS2006/HauptSem/Workouts/DATA/PRT_Ausarbeitung_Lauschke.pdf



Besides that I would like to see more constructive posts. Something like "it can be done" without any further explanation is not very helpful and looks like spam distracting from the original idea of this post.
I am sure that links to articles, shaders or other material can be helpful to Conitec or ambitious users.

If it is really that easy to make effects like ambient occlusion via shaders in A7 then please do it. I am willing to pay for it.


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