First, I apologize is this ends up being a double post. I posted this last night after registering but still don't see it.

I currently own and use Torque from GarageGames. I have a license for all the engine variations, commercial pro for TGB. GarageGames has just recently made yet another change to their EULA and now I'm shopping for new software.

If I purchase the "pro" version of GS, what are my limitations/options? I saw a brief statement here that I can make anything and sell it anywhere, but...... Can I make educational software, simulations, and training software without additional licensing or asking permission from Conitec to market it? Would I be required to put up splash screens, logos, credits, and links back to Conitec in the game? It's not that I have a problem with giving credit, just that I don't like having to splatter the game with it and provide links back to the engine site in the game. Can I really make anything I want (other than a derivative or competing product, of course) and sell it anywhere and any way I want? I know that GS can't be used to make "inappropriate" games or simulations as stated, but other than that are there any restrictions?

GarageGames has gone pretty much nuts with their newest EULA, and you have to agree to it in order to use any updates (even bug fix updates) to any of the engines. I have a few other questions about GS, but this is a big one for me.

Thanks for any clarification on this...

/Joom

if you own the pro version you can do whatever you want, whatever kind of game you want, without any permission from Conitec, you can publish and market it with who you want and when you want and how you want.

You buy the engine and you can do whatever you want to do with it. Period.

And with the pro you dont even have to show the conitec or 3dgs logo.

Thanks Michael, that's what I'd gotten out of everything I'd read. Just wanted to ask the specific questions to get specific answers.

I'd upgraded to the commercial pro license over at GarageGames last year just for those reasons, that was the idea behind their "commercial" license. In the last bug fix/update, though, they changed their EULA (which you have to agree to in order to use the newer update) so that you can't make educational software, virtual worlds, training software, or anything else other than very simple "game" games without contacting them for permission and additional licensing. And now even with the commercial pro you have to place their full screen splash screen up front, put them in the credits, and place a link to GarageGames in your About box. Which is why I bought commercial to begin with, you didn't have to do that.

Most portals don't allow links in your game, so even with the commercial license I'd have to get yet another license and pay an additional fee to leave out the link. And with their EULA worded the way it is, you don't know when you're making a game whether they'll approve it or use their EULA to charge more before you can market it, or even give it away. They say you can still work under the original EULA, but then you can't use the updated software. They say it's to "protect themselves".

I've downloaded the GS demo and Lite-C, and it looks pretty good so far. I really like the Lite-C. I've heard stories out there about GS networking being a problem, just wondered about opinions on that from people here that actually use it. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

And thanks again, Michael...

Lucky I haven't invest more in Torque.

Tell me about it. I have thousands into it and am pretty much done with it. They've been joining up with other companies (Instant Action, etc.) to boost potential income, but their "We're here for the Indies" mantra has lost its meaning.

I made a non-combative post stating my opinions about it and was basically told how generous they were being selling the engine to me in the first place. That alone pretty much did it for me...

Tunnel is still the head, but Josh Williams is sitting in the chair right now. I know what you mean about Tunnel, I get a twinge every time I see something he wrote. I made a "somewhat" negative reply to one of his blogs once a couple of years ago and the fanboys went nuts. In the old west I'd have been shot. Then hung. Then shot again. He's like a cult leader to some of those guys.

Actually I don't have a problem with Josh, Rick, and most of the other employees there. But there are some that really believe they're doing us a service by letting us breath. And the business decisions over the last year are ludicrous.

The particular post I made about the EULA thing is here. And one started by someone else that I chimed in on is here. You should be able to see these boards. In the second thread, check out what Stephen Zepp had to say in his second post half way down.

But yes, Tunnel always seems like he's got to nail someone...

#Edit: Forgot, I'm Terry on those boards...

You can even change your own icon in Pro (OT, bought Torque before Gstudio, it was a nightmare for me so never went back, sad to hear about all the conditions)