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Re: The BIble Fails ...
[Re: Nardulus]
#226709
09/10/08 20:39
09/10/08 20:39
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900 Bielefeld, Germany
Pappenheimer
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
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Funny, using logic aurguments to prove something as abstract as faith....
No wonder Fastlane is kicking butt on this train wreck of a thread.
Not sure what Dan S. is trying to work through here but, I think that maybe this not the place for dealing with a crisis of faith....
I for one will stop reading Dans attacks at the Bible or God, no matter how well fought. I hope this may be helping Dan, but I am also offended by it.
Faith is personal and something between you and your God. Public attacks are tiresome and at times disturbing.....
Ken I think you hit the point: That's what Dan's rant is all about, that the christians that he experienced do not separate their and his personal faith from impersonal scientific truth, but that they claim for the bible as the expression of their faith scientific truth.
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Re: The BIble Fails ...
[Re: ChrisTodd]
#226723
09/10/08 21:52
09/10/08 21:52
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377 USofA
fastlane69
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The bible doesn't use the word math or logic but it uses the words wisdom and understanding instead. Bait and swtich. I see. Spend several posts talking about math and logic in teh bible and then at the end, say "oh, I meant wisdom and understanding instead". I may be an atheist, but at least I'm honest. You can find the law of contradiction used in the bible for example. I'm not attacking the bible whatsoever. I find it a great read with a great message and a killer ending. What I am attacking is your definition of logic and your idea that math and logic are presented in the same manner as in wikipedia in the bible. I ask you to define logic in the context of the bible, you offer me "wisdom". I ask you to show me proof of math in the bible, you offer me "understanding". I ask you to clearly STATE what the preconditions are and you give me nothing. I am showing you how God thinks in the bible and how he expects us to think. And I have repeatedly shown how this thinking has nothing to do with math and logic. I have conclusively shown that neither math nor logic are even mentioned in the bible... Mercy, forgiveness, morality, love, hate... on these topics the bible speaks and speaks eloquently. But on math and logic the bible is silent.
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Re: The BIble Fails ...
[Re: ChrisTodd]
#226732
09/10/08 22:50
09/10/08 22:50
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377 USofA
fastlane69
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If you are asking me to conduct a bible study here, let me recommend that you read some of Gordon Clarks or John Robbins work on logic and the bible. Also J.C.Keister has stuff on Math and the Bible you can read. Neither clark nor robbins nor keister made the statement that.... Math and logic are possible within the Christian worldview but not possible within your worldview. ... but you did. And when I showed that neither term was in the bible and thus not part of the christian worldview, you turn to wisdom and understanding. You can't keep what you are saying straight... it's as simple as that. Further evidence of this is that twice you've stated that I should have "infered" from your answers what you mean, which is a sign of an unclear presentation. Furthermore, now you ask me to go back piece together an answer, instead of simply giving me the answer. Even if the answer was already in a previous post, a simple reference to that post would have sufficed. But instead, you dont' make any specific references and simply state "the answer is up there; somewhere. I'm not going to tell you where; you have to piece it together". This again is evidence that you cannot keep you discussion points straight and rely on others to do it for you. Understanding can only be acheived when people are honest with their words (math/logic vs. wisdom/understanding), are clear about their points(no "inference" needed), and when they give clear answers to clear questions (no "piece it together yourself"). As you lack all these qualities, we will never reach anything approximating understanding. Thus I leave you with your worldview and your bible and this thread. I'll just satisfy myself with the knowledge that in death, all these questions will be answers.. but not here... not with you. So enjoy the rest of the forum, ChrisTodd! Ta!
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