"Holy spirit is a person" - please explain where this belief came from.
The bible speaks of the mind of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:27 (King James Version)
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
The bible speaks of the will of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:11 (King James Version)
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
He is often described as speaking directly to men in the book of Acts. During Paul's second missionary journey the apostle was forbidden by the Spirit to visit a certain mission field,
Acts 16:6-7 (King James Version)
6Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
and then Paul was instructed to proceed toward another field of service.
Acts 16:10 (King James Version)
And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
It was God's Spirit who spoke directly to Christian leaders in the Antioch church, commanding them to send Paul and Barnabas on their first missionary journey.
Acts 13:2 (King James Version)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
The deity of the Holy Spirit.He is not only a real person, but He is also God. As is God the Father, He too is everywhere at once.
Psalm 139:7 (King James Version)
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
As the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit has also existed forever.
Hebrews 9:14 (King James Version)
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
He is often referred to as God in the bible.
Acts 5:3-4 (King James Version)
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son. This is seen during the baptism of Christ,
Matthew 3:16-17 (King James Version)
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
and is mentioned by Jesus Himself just prior to His ascension from the Mount of Olives.
Matthew 28:19-20 (King James Version)
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
"God the Son" - Your own words, where is this phrase used in the Bible?
The title Son of God is one which Jesus never directly applied to Himself, but when others applied it to Him Jesus willingly accepted it as a claim to His own deity. (John 10:24-38)
Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 16:15-17 (King James Version)
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
How can three be equal to one? This belief of yours, if indeed derived from the Bible, clearly contradicts the first commandment. They did not say 'there is one God', they said 'God is One'. They did not say 'God is Three', they said 'God is One'. I'm not talking about priests or rabbis or monks either, I'm talking about Moses and Jesus. If Moses and Jesus agree that 'God is One', where is there any room for these other two 'persons'?
I already explained this earlier in this thread. The Hebrew for God is Eloheim which is plural. The Hebrew for One is also plural. How can three be equal to One? With God all things are possible. I was not brought up to believe in Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I did go to any church or sit under the teaching of any man or woman. I asked God to show me if the bible is true and if Jesus Christ is the Messiah/Savior and the only way to heaven. The Holy Spirit is the only one who is able to reveal the truth of God's word, but we have to really want to know the truth, keep seeking after Him and keep asking Him to show us
His truth. Only God knows our hearts and knows if we are truly seeking Him or if we have already made up our minds. Yes, one can say that it is my belief, but either Jesus is who He claims to be, or He was a liar or a madman. It is clear to me in the verses I have already posted earlier in this thread that Jesus is saying He is God, but of course I have the Holy Spirit indwelling in me to reveal the truth of scripture. Like I said, only He can show you the truth.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)
smitty said: Jesus is fully God, but He was also fully man. He is referring here to his humanity, but being God He does know everything. He is also pointing the people's thinking to God, so that once they understand that He is God, then they will understand that He knows everything
Dooley said: You have imposed this understanding on the verse, rather than trying to understand what was said. He said, to paraphrase 'I don't even know, only God knows...' He is telling us that he is not God.
No, I have not imposed this understanding. I understand exactly what Jesus is saying and I believe every word He says.
Also, you have used as evidence for Jesus' claim to divinity, the fact that he claimed to be the Christ. Christ is a Greek word which means 'anointed' or 'chosen', it is the Greek word for 'Messiah'.
I agree that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah, this is even in the Quran. However, it does not serve as evidence for Jesus' divinity. Messiah's are a dime - a dozen in the Old Testament. David was a Messiah, Saul was a Messiah, Zerubabbel was a Messiah, Joshua was a Messiah. There are plenty more.
Christ (Greek) and Messiah (Hebrew) are only used for the one and only Annoited One who was promised to come from the line of David. There is and was no other. There were "types" of the Messiah in the Old Testament, just as their have been types of anti-christs (false messiahs) throughtout history.
My understanding of all this is that claims of Jesus' divinity are based on verses which can be interpreted in many ways. However, the statements about YHWH are clear and concise, and should be heeded above the ambiguous verses about Jesus.
Again, what Jesus says is not ambiguous at all to those of us who are born of the Spirit and know Him personally as our Savior.
Also, YHWH is a different word than I AM in Hebrew. Jesus never claimed to be YHWH... This is according to Strong's Hebrew dictionary.
YHWH
3068 Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw' from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069. see HEBREW for 01961 see HEBREW for 03050 see HEBREW for 03069
I AM
1961 hayah haw-yaw a primitive root (compare 1933); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use. see HEBREW for 01933
YHWH most certainly does mean I am. In Hebrew it has no vowels but it is clearly understood to mean I am.
Jesus does not say "I am YHWH", but He makes it very clear that He is saying that He and YHWH are one and the same. He said I and the Father are one. He said before Abraham was, I am. He said I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6) Like I said, He is either who He claims to be, or He was a liar or a lunatic.
The First commandment sums it up. If believing that Jesus is God, or that he died for our sins was so central to the teachings of the Bible, Jesus would have said it clearly, it should be the first commandment. When he was asked how to achieve eternal life, He said that the first and greatest commandment was to love God, then started listing off commandments (just like Moses). No mention of crucifixion, no mention of the Son or Holy Spirit being equal to God.
Again, Jesus spoke in parables because He knew who would believe Him and who had already made up their minds and would not believe Him. The same is still true today. If you want to know the truth then He will show you, but if you have already made up your mind, then you are not truly seeking the truth.
I hope I'm not offending anyone with my comments, it's just seems like you guys are taking a few things that Paul wrote, and imposing them on the rest of the Bible.
I can only speak for myself. You have not offended me at all. I pray that you will seek the truth with all your heart. If you believe you have already found the truth in the Quran or anyone other than Jesus Christ, then you are sadly mistaken. If I offend you or anyone by saying this, then I am sorry for offending, but the fact is that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but by Him. He said it, not me. Believe it or not. It is your choice. By the way, Paul was Christ's greatest opponent. He persecuted Christians and had them put to death. It was not until the Lord physically blinded him and spoke to him on the road to Damascus that Paul began to seek the truth and became a believer. Paul knew the Old Testament scriptures well, but did not believe them until he met the risen Savior. God used Paul to write much of the New Testament.
This will be my last post. My husband has asked me not to come to this website again, and I willingly submit to him according to the word of God. I pray you will all read the gospel of John as well as the rest of the bible and keep asking God (the Greek means to keep asking) to show you if it is true. You have everything to lose. Merry Christmas and God bless.
smitty
Ephesians 5:21-23 (King James Version)
21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
