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Normal Maps? #29604
06/28/04 23:29
06/28/04 23:29
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline OP
Senior Expert
Dan Silverman  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Are normal maps a function of shaders and can they be done in A6 now? If so, can someone share a script demonstrating this as I would like to test it on a MDL or two.

Thank you for your help!


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: Normal Maps? [Re: Dan Silverman] #29605
06/28/04 23:39
06/28/04 23:39
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
Senior Expert
ventilator  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
normal mapping = (dot3) bump mapping = per pixel lighting

it's all the same...

Re: Normal Maps? [Re: ventilator] #29606
06/28/04 23:44
06/28/04 23:44
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490
O
Orange Brat Offline

Senior Expert
Orange Brat  Offline

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O

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490


My User Contributions master list - my initial post links are down but scroll down page to find list to active links
Re: Normal Maps? [Re: ventilator] #29607
06/29/04 02:05
06/29/04 02:05
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,407
Helsinki, Finland
Phantom88 Offline
Expert
Phantom88  Offline
Expert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,407
Helsinki, Finland
Quote:

normal mapping = (dot3) bump mapping = per pixel lighting

it's all the same...



Well acually normal mapping means that the normals are encoded in all 3 colors(RGB), but in DOT3 only the heights of the pixels are stored(That's the difference as i have understood it), so it yields more precise and faster results...

~Phantom88~


Programmer, Gamer ICQ #: 157485106 | Xfire: Phantom1988 | MSN: lauri_andler@hotmail.com | AIM: FinPhantom | YAHOO: FinPhantom
Re: Normal Maps? [Re: Phantom88] #29608
06/29/04 02:19
06/29/04 02:19
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
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ventilator  Offline
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Posts: 7,441
the name is dot3 bump mapping because <normal dot light> gets done per pixel. this requires a normal per pixel and these normals are encoded in a normal map!

you can generate the normal map from a height map or from a high poly model. with high poly models you have more control over it and the results probably will be more impressive...

Re: Normal Maps? [Re: ventilator] #29609
06/29/04 02:44
06/29/04 02:44
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 178
666 South The Underworld,
C
ChrispiZ Offline
Member
ChrispiZ  Offline
Member
C

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 178
666 South The Underworld,
dO You have 2 generate normal maps, usin a normal map generator?
How do you generate it from a high poly model? Do i have to bake the textures?

Re: Normal Maps? [Re: ChrispiZ] #29610
06/29/04 02:54
06/29/04 02:54
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,826
Margaritaville (Redneck Rivier...
myrlyn68 Offline
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myrlyn68  Offline
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Posts: 2,826
Margaritaville (Redneck Rivier...
No - you could probably make the normal maps by hand...it just wouldn't be too easy.

As for how, it varies depending on which program you are using (there are a dozen or so that I can think of right now).

In most case you create your low polygon model and then create another high polygon one - which other than the details is the same basic form. You then open up the low ploygon model in the Normal Mapping program and then import the High polygon model over top of that. Click whatever button it has to generate normal maps and wait.

Depending on how fast you computer is, how high poly the high poly model is and a few other factors - you will have your normal map in a few seconds to a few minutes.

Now most of them allow you to preview the model too. This is very important, since you will often have seams in the normal maps that you will want to get rid of. Sometimes you can do that by adjusting the UVs, other times you will need to touch up the normal map by hand (takes a bit of practice...but not too hard).


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Re: Normal Maps? [Re: myrlyn68] #29611
06/29/04 03:23
06/29/04 03:23
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,276
trapped in a paper bag
Drew Offline
Serious User
Drew  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,276
trapped in a paper bag
a quick and easy way, yet still looks great.. is creating a normal map from a greyscale...
1. export your models skin#1
2. install ati's normal map plugin for photoshop (or is it nvidia?)
3. Desaturate it (take the color out)
4. open the normal map plug in and tweak usimng the preview..
You can also use the normal map translator, which takes an image and converts it to normal map, but you have no control...


Drew Medina
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Re: Normal Maps? [Re: Drew] #29612
06/29/04 03:47
06/29/04 03:47
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline OP
Senior Expert
Dan Silverman  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
I have ZBrush 2 and it will allow me to import a low-poly model, create a super-high poly model (up to and over 2 million polygons ... and, yes, Z2 can display this in virtually real time even on my PC) and then export out a normal map for use in the low poly model. I am anxious to try this but I have no idea how to go about doing it.


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: Normal Maps? [Re: Dan Silverman] #29613
06/29/04 04:20
06/29/04 04:20
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,813
U.S.
Nadester Offline

Expert
Nadester  Offline

Expert

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,813
U.S.
Wouldn't what you are looking for be more allong the lines of a displacement mapping shader? Something like Crytek's "Polybump" - http://www.crytek.com/polybump/index.php?sx=polybump (free for non-commercial users/students). It is somewhat similar to a bumpmaping shader - like this one http://216.46.205.166/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=335986&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 . Oliver's doesn't use displacement mapping, but it is very close. The only major difference is that the bumps do not "overlap" like in this example, http://www.conitecserver.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=335703&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 . I think that with a bit of work a shader could be written for good displacement mapping, but it wouldn't be such an easy task. (You couldn't just "throw one together", that's for sure) Maybe if someone found a good dx8.1 example out there to convert.


--Eric
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