okay, i've got it working completely now, thanks to all the help. I really appreciate it. If you would like me to post the finished code, let me know by e-mail. wheelierider1991@yahoo.com

Just tell me what was the problem in my example?
Did you get it to work with 'vec_rotate'?

i copied your code and pasted it into mine, but i put the camera stuff in the while loop in the main function and my "ball" has no "action" assigned to it, i just have the keys do the movement. But yes i did use vec_rotate. When i get home, i'll paste the code if you need it.

Thanks for the camera code