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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Joey] #369484
05/04/11 19:06
05/04/11 19:06
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Those two "new" commandments are actually in the Old Testament, too:

Deut. 6:5
"Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

Lev. 19:18
"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."


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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Redeemer] #369485
05/04/11 19:08
05/04/11 19:08
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Joey Offline OP
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yeah, but they're not placed above the 10 commandments there afaik.

Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Joey] #369508
05/04/11 20:50
05/04/11 20:50
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Rather than commandments there are The "Five Pillars of Islam" and "The 6 Articles of Faith"

The Five Pillars are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam

The Six Articles of Faith are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)
1st one is same as one of the Pillars, accepting that there is only one God.
2nd faith in Angels
3nd faith in 4 holy books
4th faith in his messengers
5th faith in the judgement day and afterlife
6th faith in fate (fate is a very interesting and broad concept in Islam)

Denying one of this articles means your faith is not complete. i.e. Believeing in all articles but denying Jesus, or any part of the Quran means your faith is not complete.

A lot of events in the Quran are similiar to some events in other books to some degree.

In core, since they are all coming from the same God as muslims believe, all religions are same. Before being modified/altered by man, the Bible was God's word. Main difference between Islam and Christianity today, is the understanding and attributes of the God* and Jesus.


*:(Allah is the arabic word for God)

---

Also about science/religion conflict:
Islam encourages studying the universe in all aspects. In fact it is considered as a prayer to study science under certain circumtances.

This science/religion can't be together thing comes from the days when the Church did not want to lose their power. They tried to keep people away from science, leaving them uneducated and easier to control.

Last edited by Quadraxas; 05/04/11 21:01.

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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Quad] #369513
05/04/11 21:25
05/04/11 21:25
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What is the oldest thing recorded by the Koran? E.g. whom/when are the commandments given?

What I find interesting is that from what you said/what I read from your links (which is very little, mind you), love doesn't seem to be a central aspect?
Example:
you shall not kill - except in the course of justice (Koran).
vs
you shall not kill (Bible).
I know that the old testament is extremely brutal in some parts. The thing is, though, that to my understanding, the two commandments given by Jesus are the central aspect of Christianity. Is there such an equivalence of the two "central" commandments I mentioned?

Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Quad] #369514
05/04/11 21:31
05/04/11 21:31
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Quote:
Rather than commandments there are The "Five Pillars of Islam" and "The 6 Articles of Faith"

But to get those you first need to talk to Thor in Nordia Village. He'll give you the quest to gather 6 Golden Calfs by slaying Elder Pigs and rewards you with the repair hammer. Bring the hammer to Poseidon in Atlantis City, and he'll fix the five broken pillars for you. As for the Articles of Faith; find Flying-with-birds south of Bison Plains if you reach lvl 20, help him defeat the firedragon sieges and his reward will be the Articles of Faith.


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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Joey] #369516
05/04/11 21:54
05/04/11 21:54
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Actually, justice is also a large theme in the Bible. The reason God had to sacrifice Jesus Christ rather than just forgiving and forgetting man's trespasses right away was because despite His infinite love, God also had to be infinitely just. The price for sin had to be paid, so He took it wholeheartedly for us, so that love and justice could prevail.


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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Joozey] #369521
05/04/11 22:08
05/04/11 22:08
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love is part of faith, though you can be emo and accept there is only one god but not love him??? Note that i am no expert in islam and nor in english language.

As i said earlier understanding of God and attributes of God are different in Islam. God is both to be feared and loved, just like your mother/father. God is most merciful and the most just. There is a essential concept of love for god, but it's not really easy to explain before explaning alot of other stuff. If you read Quran from start to finish,(i.e. from German translation, preferably one with additional explanation, though since this explanations written by other people, they are not Quran itself, they are interpretions. They help to understand though.)

Also the main misconceptions about islam:
http://islam.about.com/od/commonmisconceptions/tp/myths.htm


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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Quad] #369522
05/04/11 22:14
05/04/11 22:14
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About price for people's sin, and Jesus paying for them is not valid in Quran. If the story of Jesus was a movie without any sound/narration, they would look almost same in Bible and Quran version, but they are different in a lot of parts. People betraying him, his death, him being with god now, and that he will return parts are same.


Everyone's sin is for themselves. Also children do not get born with sin, they are pure and without any sin.


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Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Joey] #369523
05/04/11 22:14
05/04/11 22:14
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Originally Posted By: Joey
you shall not kill - except in the course of justice (Koran).


The definition of justice is very broad. Justice a few hundred years ago can't be interpreted as the justice we have today.

We live in a world where every country has its own way of defining justice, which you are to follow, where you can't / are not allowed to take justice in your own hands.
Doing so is forbidden in islam since you would break the rules in the system you promised to follow, since we have abliged to live under those rules which have been set.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong laugh

Last edited by Enduriel; 05/04/11 22:15.
Re: Any Muslims here? [Re: Quad] #369531
05/04/11 23:22
05/04/11 23:22
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Quote:
love is part of faith, though you can be emo and accept there is only one god but not love him???

On the contrary, we are instructed that if we truly love God for his sacrifice, we will render utmost respect, love, and obedience toward him, in accordance with the principles given in both the New Testament and Old Testament. As it is written in James 2:18:
"But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
And James 2:20:
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"
Good works should be a natural consequence of our faith. Nonetheless, they are not the reason for our salvation: our salvation through Christ is not earned or bought through good works, but made in faith and expounded through works.

EDIT: When I made this post, I hadn't seen the last two, so I'm making a response to this statement:

Quote:
Everyone's sin is for themselves. Also children do not get born with sin, they are pure and without any sin.

Indeed, the sins of the father do not pass to the son, but the consequences of the father's sin may inflict the son. For example: if God destroys a man for his sin, his family is not to blame for the sin, but they will still suffer his loss. An entire family might perish because of the sin of one man in the family. In the same way, when Adam betrays God in Genesis, man as an entire race is burdened with the weight of death. The weight of sin is inescapable to all men simply because they are the offspring of the first man, Adam. Consequently, man is bound to sin until he accepts God's forgiveness through Christ's sacrifice.

Last edited by Redeemer; 05/04/11 23:29.

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